Re: Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
On 08/26/2014 05:02 PM, Miloslav Trmač wrote: - Original Message - I don't have any major objections to this, but I will note that reports stopped being sent to FESCo because at some point they were kind of redundant. Still working on thing X every week isn't really something that needs to be sent. So I would avoid a weekly deadline and maybe just post minutes/summaries of the meetings the groups have when there is actually something to communicate. It seems to me that what we technically need, and what would solve this problem as well, is to have the meeting minutes be actually useful. As great as meetbot is, it takes effort to use it to produce really good meeting minutes, and the default output has a lot of output that makes everyone’s eyes glaze over. Ultimately the solution to both the reports and meetbot is the same—human editing—but I guess that a good summary for other WGs would be more or less equivalent to good meeting minutes (assuming that the obviously internal-only “implementation status” topics would be easy to recognize and skip) Right, I like the idea of making the meeting minutes nice and utilize meetbot functions more than we do now. That should cover the meeting part of the discussion quiet effectively. However, some interesting talks are sometimes not discussed during meeting (not all groups actually hold meetings regularly), because they are covered on group's mailing list already enough. And I'm not sure if summarizing those in the beginning of the meeting would work. Honza Mirek ___ env-and-stacks mailing list env-and-sta...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/env-and-stacks -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
On 08/26/2014 05:42 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:46:40 +0200 Honza Horak hho...@redhat.com wrote: ...snip... I'm not against each group doing a summary, but as noted by Josh, sometimes the summaries are very repetitive ( ...still working on implemeting roles... etc) List of proposed MLs to send this summary to: ser...@lists.fedoraproject.org desk...@lists.fedoraproject.org cl...@lists.fedoraproject.org env-and-sta...@lists.fedoraproject.org devel@lists.fedoraproject.org This is turning into my new pet peeve. ;) Cross posting to bunches of lists is not a good idea, IMHO. * It means the person posting the summary has to be subscribed to every single list they are sending to. * It means if anyone hits reply to all they have to be subscribed to every single list or deal with rejections/bounces/moderation. I think the best thing would be to mail just one list: devel. All right, I see the point, cross posting does not seem to be very useful, devel@ or meetingminutes@ seem to be more appropriate way. However, that's actually what we do already and I feel like it does not work very well. People need to pay attention to catch the meeting minutes they care about and since there is no summary of what is happening beyond meetings (on the group's mailing list or even any place else), it is almost impossible to stay tuned for non-members. Failing that, I think the best way we can do cross posting right now is for people to send seperate copies of an email to each list they want to post to, follow discussion on all those lists, and then do another sum up post if there's important feedback from only one list. Just going back to the original idea -- my goal in the first place was to have a simple way for everybody who is interested in what working groups work on to learn about that quickly. Bringing this message to other groups directly was supposed to prevent people to forget staying tuned. Honza Comments, ideas or better solutions are welcome as usually, but I might be offline until Sunday, so do not expect any answers from me in that time :) Fair enough. kevin -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 09/02/2014 03:44 AM, Honza Horak wrote: On 08/26/2014 05:42 PM, Kevin Fenzi wrote: On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:46:40 +0200 Honza Horak hho...@redhat.com wrote: ...snip... I'm not against each group doing a summary, but as noted by Josh, sometimes the summaries are very repetitive ( ...still working on implemeting roles... etc) List of proposed MLs to send this summary to: ser...@lists.fedoraproject.org desk...@lists.fedoraproject.org cl...@lists.fedoraproject.org env-and-sta...@lists.fedoraproject.org devel@lists.fedoraproject.org This is turning into my new pet peeve. ;) Cross posting to bunches of lists is not a good idea, IMHO. * It means the person posting the summary has to be subscribed to every single list they are sending to. * It means if anyone hits reply to all they have to be subscribed to every single list or deal with rejections/bounces/moderation. I think the best thing would be to mail just one list: devel. All right, I see the point, cross posting does not seem to be very useful, devel@ or meetingminutes@ seem to be more appropriate way. However, that's actually what we do already and I feel like it does not work very well. People need to pay attention to catch the meeting minutes they care about and since there is no summary of what is happening beyond meetings (on the group's mailing list or even any place else), it is almost impossible to stay tuned for non-members. One thing I've been doing for the recent Server meetings is publishing the meetbot notes to the Server WG blog (which appears on Planet Fedora). I'm trying to get us in the habit of keeping more detailed #info notes so that this will become more useful going forward. Failing that, I think the best way we can do cross posting right now is for people to send seperate copies of an email to each list they want to post to, follow discussion on all those lists, and then do another sum up post if there's important feedback from only one list. Just going back to the original idea -- my goal in the first place was to have a simple way for everybody who is interested in what working groups work on to learn about that quickly. Bringing this message to other groups directly was supposed to prevent people to forget staying tuned. Honza Comments, ideas or better solutions are welcome as usually, but I might be offline until Sunday, so do not expect any answers from me in that time :) Fair enough. kevin ___ server mailing list ser...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/server -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1 iEYEARECAAYFAlQFrxUACgkQeiVVYja6o6OqsACcC8cCE6i/vhLhrbbuZZC7+dif ECoAoLGmhOySoKLjhsiOpdTTteEf6wKL =Jgp9 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
Hi working groups members, since we have learned on Flock that new Fedora working groups do not communicate with each other much (or enough), I'd like to propose the following: Every working group will time to time (e.g. weekly) send short summary about what they did / were talking about directly to mailing lists of other working groups + to devel@fp.o. Really only a short summary with links where one can find details. I tried to collect such info from the meeting logs and mailing lists for the last few weeks for Env and Stacks WG: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2014-August/000487.html I found many notes are really worth spreading beyond groups' borders, but it takes too much time for one person to collect all the information. Thus, proposing to do a summary once per group and share with other groups. Another benefit would be that Matt would have better content for his 5tiftw. I don't think we need to sync about date or frequency, just remembering to send a direct mail if anything interesting is done/discussed should work fine. List of proposed MLs to send this summary to: ser...@lists.fedoraproject.org desk...@lists.fedoraproject.org cl...@lists.fedoraproject.org env-and-sta...@lists.fedoraproject.org devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Comments, ideas or better solutions are welcome as usually, but I might be offline until Sunday, so do not expect any answers from me in that time :) Cheers, Honza -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 10:46 AM, Honza Horak hho...@redhat.com wrote: Hi working groups members, since we have learned on Flock that new Fedora working groups do not communicate with each other much (or enough), I'd like to propose the following: Every working group will time to time (e.g. weekly) send short summary about what they did / were talking about directly to mailing lists of other working groups + to devel@fp.o. Really only a short summary with links where one can find details. I tried to collect such info from the meeting logs and mailing lists for the last few weeks for Env and Stacks WG: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2014-August/000487.html I found many notes are really worth spreading beyond groups' borders, but it takes too much time for one person to collect all the information. Thus, proposing to do a summary once per group and share with other groups. Another benefit would be that Matt would have better content for his 5tiftw. I don't think we need to sync about date or frequency, just remembering to send a direct mail if anything interesting is done/discussed should work fine. List of proposed MLs to send this summary to: ser...@lists.fedoraproject.org desk...@lists.fedoraproject.org cl...@lists.fedoraproject.org env-and-sta...@lists.fedoraproject.org devel@lists.fedoraproject.org Comments, ideas or better solutions are welcome as usually, but I might be offline until Sunday, so do not expect any answers from me in that time :) I don't have any major objections to this, but I will note that reports stopped being sent to FESCo because at some point they were kind of redundant. Still working on thing X every week isn't really something that needs to be sent. So I would avoid a weekly deadline and maybe just post minutes/summaries of the meetings the groups have when there is actually something to communicate. josh -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
- Original Message - I don't have any major objections to this, but I will note that reports stopped being sent to FESCo because at some point they were kind of redundant. Still working on thing X every week isn't really something that needs to be sent. So I would avoid a weekly deadline and maybe just post minutes/summaries of the meetings the groups have when there is actually something to communicate. It seems to me that what we technically need, and what would solve this problem as well, is to have the meeting minutes be actually useful. As great as meetbot is, it takes effort to use it to produce really good meeting minutes, and the default output has a lot of output that makes everyone’s eyes glaze over. Ultimately the solution to both the reports and meetbot is the same—human editing—but I guess that a good summary for other WGs would be more or less equivalent to good meeting minutes (assuming that the obviously internal-only “implementation status” topics would be easy to recognize and skip) Mirek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
Isn't this what the meetingminutes mailing list is for? I'd argue that a better solution is to have regular (not weekly) coordination meetings where representatives of the WGs can talk about what's going on and coordinate cross-WG issues. -- Ben Cotton -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Re: Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 16:46:40 +0200 Honza Horak hho...@redhat.com wrote: ...snip... I'm not against each group doing a summary, but as noted by Josh, sometimes the summaries are very repetitive ( ...still working on implemeting roles... etc) List of proposed MLs to send this summary to: ser...@lists.fedoraproject.org desk...@lists.fedoraproject.org cl...@lists.fedoraproject.org env-and-sta...@lists.fedoraproject.org devel@lists.fedoraproject.org This is turning into my new pet peeve. ;) Cross posting to bunches of lists is not a good idea, IMHO. * It means the person posting the summary has to be subscribed to every single list they are sending to. * It means if anyone hits reply to all they have to be subscribed to every single list or deal with rejections/bounces/moderation. I think the best thing would be to mail just one list: devel. Failing that, I think the best way we can do cross posting right now is for people to send seperate copies of an email to each list they want to post to, follow discussion on all those lists, and then do another sum up post if there's important feedback from only one list. Comments, ideas or better solutions are welcome as usually, but I might be offline until Sunday, so do not expect any answers from me in that time :) Fair enough. kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
