Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Nicolas Chauvet]

Le ven. 1 nov. 2019 à 16:40, Martin Kolman  a écrit :
>
> On Fri, 2019-11-01 at 15:33 +, Leigh Scott wrote:
> > Rpmfusion can't ship blender due to our non-replacement policy, fedora 
> > should consider dropping their crippled
> > package.
> While it is certainly missing some functionality, I would not call it cripled 
> - it is for example perfectly usable for
> 3D model creation for 3D printing (STL file output) & often advertised as 
> such.
>
> Dropping the Blender package from Fedora repositories would break this 
> usecase and require people to enable Rpmfsion
> to get Blender even if they just need it for printable model creation.
Indeed, so the way forward for Fedora is to have a blender with ffmpeg
builtin that has disabled codecs. (with the same script than what is
available in Fedora chromium).
As I understand, blender use ffmpeg as the engine for the video
rendering scene, but then one can re-encode to a target codec at a
later point.
So I don't see any issue to miss few codecs for the feature.

Of course if one still want all codecs, the RPM Fusion project would
welcome any volunteer to maintain any blender-freeworld package that
will use the full featured ffmpeg with a separate build of blender.
One could still even maintain a blender-cuda package with Nvidia CUDA
kernel enabled. I would not personally see the point as it's possible
to compile the CUDA kernel using the fedora package last time I've
looked into...


-- 
-

Nicolas (kwizart)
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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Nico Kadel-Garcia]

This has been solved for Java versions, for gcc release, for databases, and for 
multiple python releases. /etc/alternatives mostly works, compat libraries 
work, SCL installs work. Let’s avoid inventing another packaging and naming 
scheme for this, we’re only just recovering from “modularity”.

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Martin Kolman]

On Fri, 2019-11-01 at 15:33 +, Leigh Scott wrote:
> Rpmfusion can't ship blender due to our non-replacement policy, fedora should 
> consider dropping their crippled
> package.
While it is certainly missing some functionality, I would not call it cripled - 
it is for example perfectly usable for
3D model creation for 3D printing (STL file output) & often advertised as such.

Dropping the Blender package from Fedora repositories would break this usecase 
and require people to enable Rpmfsion 
to get Blender even if they just need it for printable model creation.

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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Leigh Scott]

Rpmfusion can't ship blender due to our non-replacement policy, fedora should 
consider dropping their crippled package.
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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Code Zombie]

I think you are right Martin. Blender has no runtime settings that I am
aware of for codecs.
- Mehdi

On Fri, Nov 1, 2019, 4:19 PM Martin Kolman  wrote:

> On Fri, 2019-11-01 at 00:51 +, long27km wrote:
>
> Why isn't there an option to install other repos codecs and impls ( i know
> the technical answer) ? I thought Fedora was now supposed to be focused on
> being developer friendly. Dev's could just install another distro of the os
> that allows licenses like debian/ubuntu... except maybe I still would
> anyway since I'd have less trouble with those repos recently (re: x64
> requires flatpak/winepak). These growing pains are understandable, but this
> is getting to be a bigger issue if we cannot simply install and use the
> tools we need.
>
> As I understand this (and actual Blender maintainers & other more
> knoledgable pepople plese correct me if I am completely wrong) this is due
> to an architectural limitation of Blender - you either build against ffmpeg
> at build time and have multimedia support or not build against ffmpeg and
> don't have multimedia support. Basically there is no runtime plugin
> support, like in other applications that can use Gstreamer and other
> mechanisms to query available codecs and use them if they are installed.
>
> IIRC Blender is not the only affected application, some even have ffmpeg
> as a hard dependency and can't be thus packaged for main Fedora repos at
> all.
>
> In any case, adding plugin support is on most if not all such cases a
> signifficant undertaking - unlikely something Fedora maintainers of such
> package can pull off, not to mention upstream potetially not being
> interested in accepting to such patches, that effectively increase their
> maintenance bruden by adding another codepath for codec handling.
>
>
> --
> *From:* Luya Tshimbalanga 
> *Sent:* Thursday, October 31, 2019 4:58 PM
> *To:* devel@lists.fedoraproject.org 
> *Subject:* Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?
>
>
> Blender in Fedora repository is built with ffpmeg support disabled by
> default for legal reasons. Negativo which is one of co-maintainers provides
> nearly identical version with FFmpeg enabled accessible via
> fedora-multimedia branch.
>
> https://negativo17.org/repos
>
> Make sure to keep that repo disabled to avoid conflict with rpmfusion.
>
> Luya
> On 2019-10-31 11:09 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
>
> Thanks Luya,
> I have all ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs installed. However, I think blender
> was installed by OpenShot before I actually installed ffmpeg and gstreamer
> codecs.
> So, it might be the reason why it does not play videos or music. But,
> reinstalling blender didn't help. Never had this issue before.
> - Mehdi
>
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:26 AM Luya Tshimbalanga 
> wrote:
>
>
> On 2019-10-31 5:05 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > It seems that Blender 2.8 on Fedora 31 does not support sound and
> > video playback and export.
> > Does anyone have the same issue? Is that normal on Fedora 31?
> >
> > - Mehdi
> >
> Hello Mehda,
>
> Blender requires ffmpeg which cannot be legally included in Fedora
> repository to effectively use multimedia due to US patents law. One of
> best approach is either get ffmpeg without the offending codecs or
> enable an alternative like gstreamer which is beyond the scope of
> packaging process.
>
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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Martin Kolman]

On Fri, 2019-11-01 at 00:51 +, long27km wrote:
> Why isn't there an option to install other repos codecs and impls ( i know 
> the technical answer) ? I thought Fedora
> was now supposed to be focused on being developer friendly. Dev's could just 
> install another distro of the os that
> allows licenses like debian/ubuntu...
>  except maybe I still would anyway since I'd have less trouble with those 
> repos recently (re: x64 requires
> flatpak/winepak). These growing pains are understandable, but this is getting 
> to be a bigger issue if we cannot simply
> install and use the tools we need.
As I understand this (and actual Blender maintainers & other more knoledgable 
pepople plese correct me if I am
completely wrong) this is due to an architectural limitation of Blender - you 
either build against ffmpeg at build time
and have multimedia support or not build against ffmpeg and don't have 
multimedia support. Basically there is no runtime
plugin support, like in other applications that can use Gstreamer and other 
mechanisms to query available codecs and use
them if they are installed.
IIRC Blender is not the only affected application, some even have ffmpeg as a 
hard dependency and can't be thus packaged
for main Fedora repos at all. 
In any case, adding plugin support is on most if not all such cases a 
signifficant undertaking - unlikely something
Fedora maintainers of such package can pull off, not to mention upstream 
potetially not being interested in accepting to
such patches, that effectively increase theirmaintenance bruden by adding 
another codepath for codec handling.

> 
> 
> From: Luya Tshimbalanga 
> 
> Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 4:58 PM
> 
> To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org 
> 
> Subject: Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Blender in Fedora repository is built with ffpmeg support disabled by default 
> for legal reasons. Negativo which is one
> of co-maintainers provides nearly identical version with FFmpeg enabled 
> accessible via fedora-multimedia branch.
> 
> 
> https://negativo17.org/repos
> Make sure to keep that repo disabled to avoid conflict with rpmfusion.
> 
> 
> Luya
> 
> 
> On 2019-10-31 11:09 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Luya, 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > I have all ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs installed. However, I think blender 
> > was installed by OpenShot before I
> > actually installed ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > So, it might be the reason why it does not play videos or music. But, 
> > reinstalling blender didn't help. Never had
> > this issue before.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > - Mehdi
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:26 AM Luya Tshimbalanga  
> > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > On 2019-10-31 5:05 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Hi
> > > 
> > > >
> > > 
> > > > It seems that Blender 2.8 on Fedora 31 does not support sound and 
> > > 
> > > > video playback and export.
> > > 
> > > > Does anyone have the same issue? Is that normal on Fedora 31?
> > > 
> > > >
> > > 
> > > > - Mehdi
> > > 
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Hello Mehda,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Blender requires ffmpeg which cannot be legally included in Fedora 
> > > 
> > > repository to effectively use multimedia due to US patents law. One of 
> > > 
> > > best approach is either get ffmpeg without the offending codecs or 
> > > 
> > > enable an alternative like gstreamer which is beyond the scope of 
> > > 
> > > packaging process.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ___devel mailing list -- 
> > > devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Tom Hughes]

It includes code over which various people claim to have patents
and RedHat don't want to get sued by the owners of those patents.

This is a common problem with audio and video codecs which often
involve algorithms which are subject to patent claims.

Tom

On 01/11/2019 10:25, Code Zombie wrote:
I think I am going to switch to the flatpak version. Last time I 
remember I used it it had all multimedia support by default. This way I 
would not have to fight between rpmfusion and negativo repos.
But, I still don't understand given that ffmpeg is all open-source, what 
prevents fedora from including it?


- Mehdi

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 7:59 PM Luya Tshimbalanga 
mailto:l...@fedoraproject.org>> wrote:


Blender in Fedora repository is built with ffpmeg support disabled
by default for legal reasons. Negativo which is one of
co-maintainers provides nearly identical version with FFmpeg enabled
accessible via fedora-multimedia branch.

https://negativo17.org/repos

Make sure to keep that repo disabled to avoid conflict with rpmfusion.

Luya

On 2019-10-31 11:09 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:

Thanks Luya,
I have all ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs installed. However, I think
blender was installed by OpenShot before I actually installed
ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs.
So, it might be the reason why it does not play videos or music.
But, reinstalling blender didn't help. Never had this issue before.
- Mehdi

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:26 AM Luya Tshimbalanga
mailto:l...@fedoraproject.org>> wrote:


On 2019-10-31 5:05 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
> Hi
>
> It seems that Blender 2.8 on Fedora 31 does not support
sound and
> video playback and export.
> Does anyone have the same issue? Is that normal on Fedora 31?
>
> - Mehdi
>
Hello Mehda,

Blender requires ffmpeg which cannot be legally included in
Fedora
repository to effectively use multimedia due to US patents
law. One of
best approach is either get ffmpeg without the offending
codecs or
enable an alternative like gstreamer which is beyond the scope of
packaging process.

-- 
Luya Tshimbalanga

Fedora Design Team
Fedora Design Suite maintainer
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-- 
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Fedora Design Team
Fedora Design Suite maintainer

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--
Tom Hughes (t...@compton.nu)
http://compton.nu/
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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Code Zombie]

I think I am going to switch to the flatpak version. Last time I remember I
used it it had all multimedia support by default. This way I would not have
to fight between rpmfusion and negativo repos.
But, I still don't understand given that ffmpeg is all open-source, what
prevents fedora from including it?

- Mehdi

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 7:59 PM Luya Tshimbalanga 
wrote:

> Blender in Fedora repository is built with ffpmeg support disabled by
> default for legal reasons. Negativo which is one of co-maintainers provides
> nearly identical version with FFmpeg enabled accessible via
> fedora-multimedia branch.
>
> https://negativo17.org/repos
>
> Make sure to keep that repo disabled to avoid conflict with rpmfusion.
>
> Luya
> On 2019-10-31 11:09 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
>
> Thanks Luya,
> I have all ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs installed. However, I think blender
> was installed by OpenShot before I actually installed ffmpeg and gstreamer
> codecs.
> So, it might be the reason why it does not play videos or music. But,
> reinstalling blender didn't help. Never had this issue before.
> - Mehdi
>
> On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:26 AM Luya Tshimbalanga 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 2019-10-31 5:05 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > It seems that Blender 2.8 on Fedora 31 does not support sound and
>> > video playback and export.
>> > Does anyone have the same issue? Is that normal on Fedora 31?
>> >
>> > - Mehdi
>> >
>> Hello Mehda,
>>
>> Blender requires ffmpeg which cannot be legally included in Fedora
>> repository to effectively use multimedia due to US patents law. One of
>> best approach is either get ffmpeg without the offending codecs or
>> enable an alternative like gstreamer which is beyond the scope of
>> packaging process.
>>
>> --
>> Luya Tshimbalanga
>> Fedora Design Team
>> Fedora Design Suite maintainer
>> ___
>> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org
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>> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/
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>> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>>
>
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> --
> Luya Tshimbalanga
> Fedora Design Team
> Fedora Design Suite maintainer
>
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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Ankur Sinha]

On Fri, Nov 01, 2019 00:51:47 +, long27km wrote:
> Why isn't there an option to install other repos codecs and impls ( i
> know the technical answer) ? I thought Fedora was now supposed to be
> focused on being developer friendly. Dev's could just install another
> distro of the os that allows licenses like debian/ubuntu... except
> maybe I still would anyway since I'd have less trouble with those
> repos recently (re: x64 requires flatpak/ winepak). These growing
> pains are understandable, but this is getting to be a bigger issue if
> we cannot simply install and use the tools we need.

The following links should help answer this:

- https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/#_what_is_fedora (with
  particular stress on the Foundations)
- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Forbidden_items?rd=ForbiddenItems
- https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/quick-docs/setup_rpmfusion/
- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Third_Party_Software_Repositories

Devs are free to install whatever distro they choose. Fedora is dev
friendly, but we are also FOSS friendly (to say the least). It shouldn't
be too hard for devs to install things with these available resources.

Additionally, we'd really like devs to use FOSS as much as possible, and
yes, we are aware that isn't always possible and when it is, it
sometimes requires extra work.

What we will not do is include proprietary software the way other OSes
you have used as examples do even if legal would allow it (I don't know
what they allow---merely referring to your statement here). That simply
isn't Fedora. :)

-- 
Thanks,
Regards,
Ankur Sinha "FranciscoD" (He / Him / His) | 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ankursinha
Time zone: Europe/London


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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[long27km]

Why isn't there an option to install other repos codecs and impls ( i know the 
technical answer) ? I thought Fedora was now supposed to be focused on being 
developer friendly. Dev's could just install another distro of the os that 
allows licenses like debian/ubuntu... except maybe I still would anyway since 
I'd have less trouble with those repos recently (re: x64 requires 
flatpak/winepak). These growing pains are understandable, but this is getting 
to be a bigger issue if we cannot simply install and use the tools we need.

From: Luya Tshimbalanga 
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2019 4:58 PM
To: devel@lists.fedoraproject.org 
Subject: Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?


Blender in Fedora repository is built with ffpmeg support disabled by default 
for legal reasons. Negativo which is one of co-maintainers provides nearly 
identical version with FFmpeg enabled accessible via fedora-multimedia branch.

https://negativo17.org/repos

Make sure to keep that repo disabled to avoid conflict with rpmfusion.

Luya

On 2019-10-31 11:09 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
Thanks Luya,
I have all ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs installed. However, I think blender was 
installed by OpenShot before I actually installed ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs.
So, it might be the reason why it does not play videos or music. But, 
reinstalling blender didn't help. Never had this issue before.
- Mehdi

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:26 AM Luya Tshimbalanga 
mailto:l...@fedoraproject.org>> wrote:

On 2019-10-31 5:05 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
> Hi
>
> It seems that Blender 2.8 on Fedora 31 does not support sound and
> video playback and export.
> Does anyone have the same issue? Is that normal on Fedora 31?
>
> - Mehdi
>
Hello Mehda,

Blender requires ffmpeg which cannot be legally included in Fedora
repository to effectively use multimedia due to US patents law. One of
best approach is either get ffmpeg without the offending codecs or
enable an alternative like gstreamer which is beyond the scope of
packaging process.

--
Luya Tshimbalanga
Fedora Design Team
Fedora Design Suite maintainer
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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Luya Tshimbalanga]

Blender in Fedora repository is built with ffpmeg support disabled by 
default for legal reasons. Negativo which is one of co-maintainers 
provides nearly identical version with FFmpeg enabled accessible via 
fedora-multimedia branch.


https://negativo17.org/repos

Make sure to keep that repo disabled to avoid conflict with rpmfusion.

Luya

On 2019-10-31 11:09 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:

Thanks Luya,
I have all ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs installed. However, I think 
blender was installed by OpenShot before I actually installed ffmpeg 
and gstreamer codecs.
So, it might be the reason why it does not play videos or music. But, 
reinstalling blender didn't help. Never had this issue before.

- Mehdi

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:26 AM Luya Tshimbalanga 
mailto:l...@fedoraproject.org>> wrote:



On 2019-10-31 5:05 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
> Hi
>
> It seems that Blender 2.8 on Fedora 31 does not support sound and
> video playback and export.
> Does anyone have the same issue? Is that normal on Fedora 31?
>
> - Mehdi
>
Hello Mehda,

Blender requires ffmpeg which cannot be legally included in Fedora
repository to effectively use multimedia due to US patents law.
One of
best approach is either get ffmpeg without the offending codecs or
enable an alternative like gstreamer which is beyond the scope of
packaging process.

-- 
Luya Tshimbalanga

Fedora Design Team
Fedora Design Suite maintainer
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--
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Fedora Design Suite maintainer

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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Code Zombie]

Thanks Luya,
I have all ffmpeg and gstreamer codecs installed. However, I think blender
was installed by OpenShot before I actually installed ffmpeg and gstreamer
codecs.
So, it might be the reason why it does not play videos or music. But,
reinstalling blender didn't help. Never had this issue before.
- Mehdi

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 11:26 AM Luya Tshimbalanga 
wrote:

>
> On 2019-10-31 5:05 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > It seems that Blender 2.8 on Fedora 31 does not support sound and
> > video playback and export.
> > Does anyone have the same issue? Is that normal on Fedora 31?
> >
> > - Mehdi
> >
> Hello Mehda,
>
> Blender requires ffmpeg which cannot be legally included in Fedora
> repository to effectively use multimedia due to US patents law. One of
> best approach is either get ffmpeg without the offending codecs or
> enable an alternative like gstreamer which is beyond the scope of
> packaging process.
>
> --
> Luya Tshimbalanga
> Fedora Design Team
> Fedora Design Suite maintainer
> ___
> devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Re: Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Luya Tshimbalanga]

On 2019-10-31 5:05 a.m., Code Zombie wrote:

Hi

It seems that Blender 2.8 on Fedora 31 does not support sound and 
video playback and export.

Does anyone have the same issue? Is that normal on Fedora 31?

- Mehdi


Hello Mehda,

Blender requires ffmpeg which cannot be legally included in Fedora 
repository to effectively use multimedia due to US patents law. One of 
best approach is either get ffmpeg without the offending codecs or 
enable an alternative like gstreamer which is beyond the scope of 
packaging process.


--
Luya Tshimbalanga
Fedora Design Team
Fedora Design Suite maintainer
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Blender for Fedora 31 does not support multimedia?

[Code Zombie]

Hi

It seems that Blender 2.8 on Fedora 31 does not support sound and video
playback and export.
Does anyone have the same issue? Is that normal on Fedora 31?

- Mehdi
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