Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-05 Thread Chris Murphy 
On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 9:47 PM Dusty Mabe  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 7/1/22 18:14, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 2:10 PM Michael Catanzaro  
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 1 2022 at 01:54:58 PM -0400, Ben Cotton
> >>  wrote:
> >>> A DNF plugin will be written to make use of the `Supplements` metadata
> >>> to automatically install the appropriate firmware packages based on
> >>> the hardware present on the system (see openSUSE's `libzypp`:
> >>> https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/a34d857dbe3b16d4a7e0219cd213cc5a87966538/zypp/target/modalias/Modalias.cc
> >>> and
> >>> https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/7f345ea4892fd02345e8de47c2a08ab5b174650b/doc/autoinclude/Modalias.doc)
> >>
> >> What about Fedora editions that don't have dnf (Silverblue, Kinoite,
> >> CoreOS)?
> >
> > They load libdnf through rpm-ostree, so a libdnf plugin will still work.
> >
>
> I'm not the most qualified to speak to this point, but I'm not sure that just 
> because rpm-ostree uses libdnf
> under the hood this will automatically just work. I suspect that it won't 
> work. Probably for those variants
> we'd just need to include the `linux-firmware-all` package (or whatever 
> equivalent to get what we currently have).


Or could the plugin be used to create rpm-ostree layers with the
necessary firmware packages?

-- 
Chris Murphy
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-05 Thread Timothée Ravier 
Agree with Dusty here: it's likely that the DNF plugin won't be used at all 
with rpm-ostree.

This change would however enable some rpm-ostree variants to more finely select 
the firmwares that they want: for example, Fedora CoreOS could skip all WiFi 
related firmwares and Fedora Silverblue could skip weird server hardware 
firmwares.
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-03 Thread Peter Robinson 
On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 8:36 PM Vitaly Zaitsev via devel
 wrote:
>
> On 02/07/2022 18:27, Ben Cotton wrote:
> > This proposal has been withdrawn by the owners.
>
> Why? Very useful feature.

Because they didn't coordinate with the maintainers, it wasn't ready
and overall has flaws that need to be addressed. Something to a
similar effect will be coordinated and submitted when it's actually
viable.
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-02 Thread Vitaly Zaitsev via devel 

On 02/07/2022 18:27, Ben Cotton wrote:

This proposal has been withdrawn by the owners.


Why? Very useful feature.

--
Sincerely,
  Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org)
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-02 Thread Ralf Corsépius 



Am 02.07.22 um 18:27 schrieb Ben Cotton:



On Fri, Jul 1, 2022, 1:54 PM Ben Cotton > wrote:


https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Linux_Firmware_Minimization



This proposal has been withdrawn by the owners.


Any explanation why?

Ralf
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-02 Thread Neal Gompa 
On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 12:29 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2022, 1:54 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
>>
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Linux_Firmware_Minimization
>
>
> This proposal has been withdrawn by the owners.

All my hopes and dreams dashed with this statement. :(


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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-02 Thread Ben Cotton 
On Fri, Jul 1, 2022, 1:54 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:

> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Linux_Firmware_Minimization


This proposal has been withdrawn by the owners.
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-02 Thread Vitaly Zaitsev via devel 

On 01/07/2022 19:54, Ben Cotton wrote:

Split linux-firmware into more subpackages, and add the ability to
automatically install firmware based on the hardware present


+1. Finally. Thanks for implementing this.

--
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  Vitaly Zaitsev (vit...@easycoding.org)
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-02 Thread Miroslav Suchý 

Dne 01. 07. 22 v 19:54 Ben Cotton napsal(a):

== Detailed Description ==
The `linux-firmware` RPM is very large (175M src.rpm, 287M
*.noarch.rpm per 20211027-126) that bundles most of the system
firmware loaded by the kernel, regardless of whether it’s actually
needed. Some additional firmwares are already split up into individual
subpackages. This change would extend that, splitting out most firmare
into appropriate subpackages. The Change would also make the
subpackages `Supplements` the appropriate `modalias(...)` for the
hardware they support and `Provides`
`firmware(kmodname/firmwarefile.bin)`


Wow, I wanted this for loong time. Thank you for doing this.


A DNF plugin will be written to make use of the `Supplements` metadata
to automatically install the appropriate firmware packages based on
the hardware present on the system (see openSUSE's `libzypp`:
https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/a34d857dbe3b16d4a7e0219cd213cc5a87966538/zypp/target/modalias/Modalias.cc
and 
https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/7f345ea4892fd02345e8de47c2a08ab5b174650b/doc/autoinclude/Modalias.doc)


Can this be paired with simple command line tool which will "just" print the appropriate packages? It would  be usefull 
in e.g., creating Ansible playbooks for the machine.


Miroslav
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-01 Thread Dusty Mabe 


On 7/1/22 18:14, Neal Gompa wrote:
> On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 2:10 PM Michael Catanzaro  wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 1 2022 at 01:54:58 PM -0400, Ben Cotton
>>  wrote:
>>> A DNF plugin will be written to make use of the `Supplements` metadata
>>> to automatically install the appropriate firmware packages based on
>>> the hardware present on the system (see openSUSE's `libzypp`:
>>> https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/a34d857dbe3b16d4a7e0219cd213cc5a87966538/zypp/target/modalias/Modalias.cc
>>> and
>>> https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/7f345ea4892fd02345e8de47c2a08ab5b174650b/doc/autoinclude/Modalias.doc)
>>
>> What about Fedora editions that don't have dnf (Silverblue, Kinoite,
>> CoreOS)?
> 
> They load libdnf through rpm-ostree, so a libdnf plugin will still work.
> 

I'm not the most qualified to speak to this point, but I'm not sure that just 
because rpm-ostree uses libdnf
under the hood this will automatically just work. I suspect that it won't work. 
Probably for those variants
we'd just need to include the `linux-firmware-all` package (or whatever 
equivalent to get what we currently have).

Dusty
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-01 Thread Neal Gompa 
On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 1:57 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Linux_Firmware_Minimization
>
> This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
> process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
> community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
> by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.
>
> == Summary ==
> Split linux-firmware into more subpackages, and add the ability to
> automatically install firmware based on the hardware present
>
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:Salimma|Michel Alexandre Salim]],
> [[User:Dcavalca|Davide Cavalca]]
> * Email: mic...@fb.com, dcava...@fb.com
>
>
> == Detailed Description ==
> The `linux-firmware` RPM is very large (175M src.rpm, 287M
> *.noarch.rpm per 20211027-126) that bundles most of the system
> firmware loaded by the kernel, regardless of whether it’s actually
> needed. Some additional firmwares are already split up into individual
> subpackages. This change would extend that, splitting out most firmare
> into appropriate subpackages. The Change would also make the
> subpackages `Supplements` the appropriate `modalias(...)` for the
> hardware they support and `Provides`
> `firmware(kmodname/firmwarefile.bin)`
>
> Candidates for splitting out:
> * CPU firmwares
> * GPU firmwares
> * Non-Intel wifi firmwares
> * Bluetooth firmwares
>
> Conversely some firmware could probably be grouped together, e.g. have
> iwlwifi-firmware that pulls in iwl*-firmware (corresponding to
> openSUSE's kernel-firmware-iwlwifi).
>
> We will also introduce `linux-firmware-all` that will pull in all
> subpackages; this will make it easier to manage the firmware packages
> in different Fedora variants.
>
> A DNF plugin will be written to make use of the `Supplements` metadata
> to automatically install the appropriate firmware packages based on
> the hardware present on the system (see openSUSE's `libzypp`:
> https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/a34d857dbe3b16d4a7e0219cd213cc5a87966538/zypp/target/modalias/Modalias.cc
> and 
> https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/7f345ea4892fd02345e8de47c2a08ab5b174650b/doc/autoinclude/Modalias.doc)
>
> == Feedback ==
>
>
> == Benefit to Fedora ==
> This would save a lot of disk space on Fedora installations, and make
> it easier to test individual firmware updates by replacing a single
> subpackage. It will also bring us into alignment with openSUSE (see
> their 
> [https://code.opensuse.org/package/kernel-firmware/blob/master/f/kernel-firmware.spec
> kernel-firmware.spec]).
>

This is sorely needed, and I'm really looking forward to this being implemented!



-- 
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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-01 Thread Neal Gompa 
On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 2:10 PM Michael Catanzaro  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 1 2022 at 01:54:58 PM -0400, Ben Cotton
>  wrote:
> > A DNF plugin will be written to make use of the `Supplements` metadata
> > to automatically install the appropriate firmware packages based on
> > the hardware present on the system (see openSUSE's `libzypp`:
> > https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/a34d857dbe3b16d4a7e0219cd213cc5a87966538/zypp/target/modalias/Modalias.cc
> > and
> > https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/7f345ea4892fd02345e8de47c2a08ab5b174650b/doc/autoinclude/Modalias.doc)
>
> What about Fedora editions that don't have dnf (Silverblue, Kinoite,
> CoreOS)?

They load libdnf through rpm-ostree, so a libdnf plugin will still work.



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Re: F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-01 Thread Michael Catanzaro 
On Fri, Jul 1 2022 at 01:54:58 PM -0400, Ben Cotton 
 wrote:

A DNF plugin will be written to make use of the `Supplements` metadata
to automatically install the appropriate firmware packages based on
the hardware present on the system (see openSUSE's `libzypp`:
https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/a34d857dbe3b16d4a7e0219cd213cc5a87966538/zypp/target/modalias/Modalias.cc
and 
https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/7f345ea4892fd02345e8de47c2a08ab5b174650b/doc/autoinclude/Modalias.doc)


What about Fedora editions that don't have dnf (Silverblue, Kinoite, 
CoreOS)?


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F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-01 Thread Ben Cotton 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Linux_Firmware_Minimization

This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.

== Summary ==
Split linux-firmware into more subpackages, and add the ability to
automatically install firmware based on the hardware present

== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:Salimma|Michel Alexandre Salim]],
[[User:Dcavalca|Davide Cavalca]]
* Email: mic...@fb.com, dcava...@fb.com


== Detailed Description ==
The `linux-firmware` RPM is very large (175M src.rpm, 287M
*.noarch.rpm per 20211027-126) that bundles most of the system
firmware loaded by the kernel, regardless of whether it’s actually
needed. Some additional firmwares are already split up into individual
subpackages. This change would extend that, splitting out most firmare
into appropriate subpackages. The Change would also make the
subpackages `Supplements` the appropriate `modalias(...)` for the
hardware they support and `Provides`
`firmware(kmodname/firmwarefile.bin)`

Candidates for splitting out:
* CPU firmwares
* GPU firmwares
* Non-Intel wifi firmwares
* Bluetooth firmwares

Conversely some firmware could probably be grouped together, e.g. have
iwlwifi-firmware that pulls in iwl*-firmware (corresponding to
openSUSE's kernel-firmware-iwlwifi).

We will also introduce `linux-firmware-all` that will pull in all
subpackages; this will make it easier to manage the firmware packages
in different Fedora variants.

A DNF plugin will be written to make use of the `Supplements` metadata
to automatically install the appropriate firmware packages based on
the hardware present on the system (see openSUSE's `libzypp`:
https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/a34d857dbe3b16d4a7e0219cd213cc5a87966538/zypp/target/modalias/Modalias.cc
and 
https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/7f345ea4892fd02345e8de47c2a08ab5b174650b/doc/autoinclude/Modalias.doc)

== Feedback ==


== Benefit to Fedora ==
This would save a lot of disk space on Fedora installations, and make
it easier to test individual firmware updates by replacing a single
subpackage. It will also bring us into alignment with openSUSE (see
their 
[https://code.opensuse.org/package/kernel-firmware/blob/master/f/kernel-firmware.spec
kernel-firmware.spec]).

== Scope ==
* Proposal owners:
** Create test COPR with proposed changes
** Add some additional firmware subpackages
** Add the required metadata (supplements, provides)
** Write DNF plugin to make use of supplements
** Write libdnf plugin for PackageKit (and in the future, microdnf)
** refactor 
[https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/blob/main/f/comps-f37.xml.in#_2887-2903
comps for F37]

* Other developers:
** Validate that installation works with iwl*-firmware replaced by
iwlwifi-firmware
** Test the DNF plugin
** If it works well, preinstall the DNF plugin and stop installing
iwlwifi-firmware or any of the iwl*-firmware

* Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issues #Releng issue number]
* Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Alignment with Objectives:


== Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
No compatibility impact.


== How To Test ==
* Enable the test COPR
* Verify that after upgrading, no firmware subpackages are removed
* Install the DNF plugin
* Verify that the DNF plugin works: `dnf mark remove` a firmware
package that is needed, then verify that `dnf autoremove` does not
remove it
* `dnf mark remove` all firmware packages, and verify that `dnf
autoremove` only remove the unneeded packages


== User Experience ==
More disk space available, no functional changes.

== Dependencies ==
No dependency, `linux-firmware` is not required by any package

== Contingency Plan ==
* Contingency mechanism: If the plugin is not ready in time, the other
changes would preserve the status quo. So we can postpone shipping the
DNF plugin to F38.
* Contingency deadline:Decide on whether to postpone the DNF
plugin by beta freeze
* Blocks release? No


== Documentation ==
Documentation will be added in
[https://hackmd.io/KnHbJ40pQ8eJjc1H80R10w this HackMD]

== Release Notes ==



-- 
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Fedora Program Manager
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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F37 proposal: Linux Firmware Minimization (late System-Wide Change proposal)

2022-07-01 Thread Ben Cotton 
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Linux_Firmware_Minimization

This document represents a proposed Change. As part of the Changes
process, proposals are publicly announced in order to receive
community feedback. This proposal will only be implemented if approved
by the Fedora Engineering Steering Committee.

== Summary ==
Split linux-firmware into more subpackages, and add the ability to
automatically install firmware based on the hardware present

== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:Salimma|Michel Alexandre Salim]],
[[User:Dcavalca|Davide Cavalca]]
* Email: mic...@fb.com, dcava...@fb.com


== Detailed Description ==
The `linux-firmware` RPM is very large (175M src.rpm, 287M
*.noarch.rpm per 20211027-126) that bundles most of the system
firmware loaded by the kernel, regardless of whether it’s actually
needed. Some additional firmwares are already split up into individual
subpackages. This change would extend that, splitting out most firmare
into appropriate subpackages. The Change would also make the
subpackages `Supplements` the appropriate `modalias(...)` for the
hardware they support and `Provides`
`firmware(kmodname/firmwarefile.bin)`

Candidates for splitting out:
* CPU firmwares
* GPU firmwares
* Non-Intel wifi firmwares
* Bluetooth firmwares

Conversely some firmware could probably be grouped together, e.g. have
iwlwifi-firmware that pulls in iwl*-firmware (corresponding to
openSUSE's kernel-firmware-iwlwifi).

We will also introduce `linux-firmware-all` that will pull in all
subpackages; this will make it easier to manage the firmware packages
in different Fedora variants.

A DNF plugin will be written to make use of the `Supplements` metadata
to automatically install the appropriate firmware packages based on
the hardware present on the system (see openSUSE's `libzypp`:
https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/a34d857dbe3b16d4a7e0219cd213cc5a87966538/zypp/target/modalias/Modalias.cc
and 
https://github.com/openSUSE/libzypp/blob/7f345ea4892fd02345e8de47c2a08ab5b174650b/doc/autoinclude/Modalias.doc)

== Feedback ==


== Benefit to Fedora ==
This would save a lot of disk space on Fedora installations, and make
it easier to test individual firmware updates by replacing a single
subpackage. It will also bring us into alignment with openSUSE (see
their 
[https://code.opensuse.org/package/kernel-firmware/blob/master/f/kernel-firmware.spec
kernel-firmware.spec]).

== Scope ==
* Proposal owners:
** Create test COPR with proposed changes
** Add some additional firmware subpackages
** Add the required metadata (supplements, provides)
** Write DNF plugin to make use of supplements
** Write libdnf plugin for PackageKit (and in the future, microdnf)
** refactor 
[https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/blob/main/f/comps-f37.xml.in#_2887-2903
comps for F37]

* Other developers:
** Validate that installation works with iwl*-firmware replaced by
iwlwifi-firmware
** Test the DNF plugin
** If it works well, preinstall the DNF plugin and stop installing
iwlwifi-firmware or any of the iwl*-firmware

* Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issues #Releng issue number]
* Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
* Alignment with Objectives:


== Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
No compatibility impact.


== How To Test ==
* Enable the test COPR
* Verify that after upgrading, no firmware subpackages are removed
* Install the DNF plugin
* Verify that the DNF plugin works: `dnf mark remove` a firmware
package that is needed, then verify that `dnf autoremove` does not
remove it
* `dnf mark remove` all firmware packages, and verify that `dnf
autoremove` only remove the unneeded packages


== User Experience ==
More disk space available, no functional changes.

== Dependencies ==
No dependency, `linux-firmware` is not required by any package

== Contingency Plan ==
* Contingency mechanism: If the plugin is not ready in time, the other
changes would preserve the status quo. So we can postpone shipping the
DNF plugin to F38.
* Contingency deadline:Decide on whether to postpone the DNF
plugin by beta freeze
* Blocks release? No


== Documentation ==
Documentation will be added in
[https://hackmd.io/KnHbJ40pQ8eJjc1H80R10w this HackMD]

== Release Notes ==



-- 
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Fedora Program Manager
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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