Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Fri, Oct 08, 2021 at 11:10:17AM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > RPMs. This is a hybrid packaging model, where some Java RPM packages > > can be built in the traditional way (where code is compiled during > > rpmbuild) and some are built elsewhere, and only wrapped in RPMs. > So the only thing left

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 08.10.2021 um 14:11 schrieb Kevin Kofler via devel > : > > Mario Torre wrote: > >> On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 2:11 AM Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: >>> And that is actually a problem rather than a solution. Maven artifacts >>> are basically write once only. Everything depends on a hardcoded v

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Wed, 2021-10-06 at 14:37 +0200, Mikolaj Izdebski wrote: > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:50 PM Matthew Miller < > mat...@fedoraproject.org> wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > > > reason

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 08.10.2021 um 14:08 schrieb Kevin Kofler via devel > : > > Peter Boy wrote: >> A valid point, but only in case the app that consumes the maven artefact >> in unmaintained. > > Many applications are maintained and never (or very rarely, only when they > encounter some issue with the versi

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Mario Torre wrote: > On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 2:11 AM Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: >> And that is actually a problem rather than a solution. Maven artifacts >> are basically write once only. Everything depends on a hardcoded version >> which, once uploaded, is normally never touched again. This mea

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Peter Boy wrote: > A valid point, but only in case the app that consumes the maven artefact > in unmaintained. Many applications are maintained and never (or very rarely, only when they encounter some issue with the version they currently use) bother bumping their dependencies after adding them

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 2:11 AM Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > > Michal Srb wrote: > > Unlike RPM repositories, Maven repositories can easily hold multiple > > versions of libraries. Once a JAR is built, the resulting bytecode will > > work with current and future JVMs. There is no need to mass-re

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Wed, Oct 6, 2021 at 2:39 PM Mikolaj Izdebski wrote: > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:50 PM Matthew Miller > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > > > reason to have packages within the

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Tue, Oct 5, 2021 at 10:20 PM Peter Boy wrote: > > > > > Am 04.10.2021 um 21:08 schrieb Fabio Valentini : > > > > > > But then you're back to *exactly how Fedora packages for Java projects > > already work* - only with the added complication that distributing > > those build artifacts as plain J

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 06.10.2021 um 14:37 schrieb Mikolaj Izdebski : > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:50 PM Matthew Miller > wrote: >> >> On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: >>> I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one >>> reason to have packages within the Fedora

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 08.10.2021 um 02:06 schrieb Kevin Kofler via devel > : > > Michal Srb wrote: >> Unlike RPM repositories, Maven repositories can easily hold multiple >> versions of libraries. ... > > And that is actually a problem rather than a solution. Maven artifacts are > basically write once only. E

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Michal Srb wrote: > Unlike RPM repositories, Maven repositories can easily hold multiple > versions of libraries. Once a JAR is built, the resulting bytecode will > work with current and future JVMs. There is no need to mass-rebuild JARs > every 6 months. And there is certainly no need to try to ru

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Wed, Oct 06, 2021 at 07:08:46AM +0200, Michal Srb wrote: > @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora > from packaging the ocean? :) Oh, you remember. Yes. :) Let's do what we do really well, really well, and not do things where we're fighting against 99.% of all actual use both

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:50 PM Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > > reason to have packages within the Fedora distribution is for a matter > > of trust, if this is the case I

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Wed, 6 Oct 2021 at 11:02, Peter Boy wrote: > > > > Am 06.10.2021 um 07:08 schrieb Michal Srb : > > Hi folks, > > @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora from packaging the ocean? > :) > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:10 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM Matthe

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 06.10.2021 um 07:08 schrieb Michal Srb >: > > Hi folks, > > @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora from packaging the ocean? > :) > > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:10 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM Matthew Miller > wrote: >>

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Dne 06. 10. 21 v 7:08 Michal Srb napsal(a): Hi folks, @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora from packaging the ocean? :) On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:10 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM Matthew Miller wrote: >

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

Hi folks, @Matthew Miller Are you still trying to save Fedora from packaging the ocean? :) On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 9:10 PM Fabio Valentini wrote: > On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM Matthew Miller > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > > I'm not sure wha

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021, at 3:08 PM, Fabio Valentini wrote: > But then you're back to *exactly how Fedora packages for Java projects > already work* - only with the added complication that distributing > those build artifacts as plain JARs instead of RPMs now makes them > impossible to consume as de

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

> Am 04.10.2021 um 21:08 schrieb Fabio Valentini : > > > But then you're back to *exactly how Fedora packages for Java projects > already work* - only with the added complication that distributing > those build artifacts as plain JARs instead of RPMs now makes them > impossible to consume as de

Re: Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 8:49 PM Matthew Miller wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > > reason to have packages within the Fedora distribution is for a matter > > of trust, if this is the case I

Fedora Maven? [was: Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs]

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 03:09:08PM +0200, Mario Torre wrote: > I'm not sure what's the best solution, but I guess the number one > reason to have packages within the Fedora distribution is for a matter > of trust, if this is the case I would argue that a curated list of > maven packages served via

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:40:18PM -0400, Demi Marie Obenour wrote: > That said, I am also unsure if anyone is using those bindings. Why were they > added originally? I think probably for oVirt, but oVirt now only uses the virt-* tools (ie. command line). Rich. -- Richard Jones, Virtualization

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On 9/28/21 8:41 AM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > On Tue, 28 Sept 2021 at 08:20, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >> >> On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:06:58PM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: >>> Richard W.M. Jones wrote: OCaml library code can in principle be dynamically linked, eg: $ rpm

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > I think Kevin's comment is meant more towards the way the language > packages itself versus the rpm packaging of the language. Going from > Kevin's comments on languages over the years, a 'good' language should > not require such sort of rebuilding. The OCaml language

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 04:33:39PM +0200, Fabio Valentini wrote: > But as you guessed, there's no such support for gradle, sbt, bazel, or > whatever new build system Google has been cooking up recently. Nor is > there support for Groovy (no longer available in Fedora, as it > depended on gradle), K

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On 9/27/21 8:31 AM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:15:32PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: >> On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 12:07, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >>> >>> A question about this which is semi-related to your email. >>> >>> For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: >

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, 28 Sept 2021 at 08:20, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:06:58PM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > > Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > OCaml library code can in principle be dynamically linked, eg: > > > > > > $ rpm -ql ocaml-extlib | grep cmxs > > > /usr/lib64/oc

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:00:58PM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > Florian Weimer wrote: > > Interesting. Could you provide an example of such a dynamically linked > > binary? > > OCaml is interesting in that it does not use standard ELF .so files, but its > own dynamic linking mechanism

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 02:06:58PM +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote: > Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > OCaml library code can in principle be dynamically linked, eg: > > > > $ rpm -ql ocaml-extlib | grep cmxs > > /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs > > $ file /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs >

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > OCaml library code can in principle be dynamically linked, eg: > > $ rpm -ql ocaml-extlib | grep cmxs > /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs > $ file /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs > /usr/lib64/ocaml/extlib/extLib.cmxs: ELF 64-bit LSB shared object, x86-64, > versio

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 01:42:44PM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: > * Kevin Kofler via devel: > > > Florian Weimer wrote: > > > >> * Kevin Kofler via devel: > >> > >>> (And for the record, I also think that Go and Rust should not work > >>> that way either! It is possible to build shared libraries

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > The bug above is a bit worrying though. I don't think anyone ever > tried to address those issues. I don't know enough to say if they're > real or nice to haves, but they seem serious. I have never seen any handwritten JNI code doing any of the things the bug wants y

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 17:31, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 04:39:03PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1536762 > > > > > > so it might be more of a saga than just changi

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 04:39:03PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1536762 > > > > so it might be more of a saga than just changing a few commands. > > > > Rich. > > Hi Rich, > > TBH it looks like

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

* Fabio Valentini: > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 1:07 PM Richard W.M. Jones wrote: >> >> A question about this which is semi-related to your email. >> >> For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: >> https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/tree/master/java >> >> These have been disabled

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:15:32PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 12:07, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > > > > A question about this which is semi-related to your email. > > > > > > For some C library packages we ha

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 12:15:32PM +0100, Mat Booth wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 12:07, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > > A question about this which is semi-related to your email. > > > > For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: > > https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/tree/

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

> I believe the only requirements are javac, javah, javadoc (optional) > and a JVM to run the tests on. Is it possible to keep this going, > or would that require a lot of work? +1 on this. Having just the minimum, core packages available in the repo would be good, especially since: a) It would mea

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, 27 Sept 2021 at 12:07, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > A question about this which is semi-related to your email. > > For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: > https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/tree/master/java > > These have been disabled in Fedora for ~2 years, but wh

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

On Mon, Sep 27, 2021 at 1:07 PM Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > A question about this which is semi-related to your email. > > For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: > https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/tree/master/java > > These have been disabled in Fedora for ~2 years, but w

Re: Fedora ? Java: The Death of Two SIGs

A question about this which is semi-related to your email. For some C library packages we have Java bindings, eg: https://github.com/libguestfs/libguestfs/tree/master/java These have been disabled in Fedora for ~2 years, but when they were around they had these BuildRequires: BuildRequires: ja