Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-08-31 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 12:09 PM Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Mon, 2020-08-31 at 11:22 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:16 AM Michael Catanzaro > > wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy > > > wrote: > > > > Michael I'm pretty sure this is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-08-31 Thread Adam Williamson
On Mon, 2020-08-31 at 11:22 -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:16 AM Michael Catanzaro > wrote: > > > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy > > wrote: > > > Michael I'm pretty sure this is the same thing that I ran into with > > > zram-generator-defaults and had

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-08-31 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:16 AM Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy > wrote: > > Michael I'm pretty sure this is the same thing that I ran into with > > zram-generator-defaults and had to add it to core to pull it into all > > media. Can you double check

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-08-31 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 11:16 AM Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy > wrote: > > Michael I'm pretty sure this is the same thing that I ran into with > > zram-generator-defaults and had to add it to core to pull it into all > > media. Can you double check

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-08-31 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 8:30 am, Chris Murphy wrote: Michael I'm pretty sure this is the same thing that I ran into with zram-generator-defaults and had to add it to core to pull it into all media. Can you double check my math? :) If minimization folks are OK with having it in @core, then it

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-08-31 Thread Chris Murphy
On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 11:34 PM Tomáš Popela wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 3:24 AM Neal Gompa wrote: >> >> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:15 PM Chris Murphy wrote: >> > >> > Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-33-20200830.n.0.iso does not have nano >> > on the install media itself. Is it

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-08-30 Thread Tomáš Popela
On Mon, Aug 31, 2020 at 3:24 AM Neal Gompa wrote: > On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:15 PM Chris Murphy > wrote: > > > > Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-33-20200830.n.0.iso does not have nano > > on the install media itself. Is it intentional? > > > > It's supposed to be there, but I don't know how

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-08-30 Thread Neal Gompa
On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:15 PM Chris Murphy wrote: > > Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-33-20200830.n.0.iso does not have nano > on the install media itself. Is it intentional? > It's supposed to be there, but I don't know how Silverblue is "defined" so it would be pulled in. I thought it'd get

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-08-30 Thread Chris Murphy
Fedora-Silverblue-ostree-x86_64-33-20200830.n.0.iso does not have nano on the install media itself. Is it intentional? -- Chris Murphy ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-07 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 12:49 pm, Samuel Sieb wrote: That's good to know for the change proposal then. I never use the Workstation install. I net install either with a kickstart or selecting the options I want, so that would explain why I always end up with nano installed. I don't think

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-07 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 7/7/20 12:39 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote: On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 11:26 am, Samuel Sieb wrote: Why do you think it's gone?  It's in the "standard" group, so I think it should be installed on anything other than base minimal.  I find that it's installed on everything. Warning: @standard is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-07 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 11:26 am, Samuel Sieb wrote: Why do you think it's gone? It's in the "standard" group, so I think it should be installed on anything other than base minimal. I find that it's installed on everything. Warning: @standard is not included at all in Workstation

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-07 Thread Markus Larsson
On 7 July 2020 20:26:52 CEST, Samuel Sieb wrote: >On 7/7/20 7:56 AM, Michal Schorm wrote: >> What I miss is the presence of nano in the default installations and images. >> I strongly believe it was there just a few Fedora releases back, but >> now, it's gone. > >Why do you think it's gone?

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-07 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 7/7/20 7:56 AM, Michal Schorm wrote: What I miss is the presence of nano in the default installations and images. I strongly believe it was there just a few Fedora releases back, but now, it's gone. Why do you think it's gone? It's in the "standard" group, so I think it should be

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-07 Thread Michal Schorm
+1 for nano. What I miss is the presence of nano in the default installations and images. I strongly believe it was there just a few Fedora releases back, but now, it's gone. I would really simplify - or atleast make more friendly - fast file editing / configuration on fresh systems. This might

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-07 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 07/07/20 14:24 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: Ben Cotton wrote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault == Summary == Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that doesn't require specialist knowledge to use. == Owner == * Name: [[User:chrismurphy| Chris

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-07 Thread Kevin Kofler
Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > == Summary == > > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that > doesn't require specialist knowledge to use. > > == Owner == > * Name: [[User:chrismurphy| Chris Murphy]] > * Email:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-03 Thread Markus Larsson
On 3 July 2020 21:54:10 CEST, Adam Williamson wrote: >On Fri, 2020-07-03 at 21:35 +0200, Markus Larsson wrote: >> >> On 3 July 2020 21:30:26 CEST, Adam Williamson >> wrote: >> > On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: >> > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-03 Thread Adam Williamson
On Fri, 2020-07-03 at 21:35 +0200, Markus Larsson wrote: > > On 3 July 2020 21:30:26 CEST, Adam Williamson > wrote: > > On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > > > > > == Summary == > > > > > > Let's make Fedora

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-03 Thread Markus Larsson
On 3 July 2020 21:30:26 CEST, Adam Williamson wrote: >On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault >> >> == Summary == >> >> Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that >> doesn't require specialist

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-03 Thread Adam Williamson
On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > == Summary == > > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that > doesn't require specialist knowledge to use. > > == Owner == > * Name: [[User:chrismurphy|

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-03 Thread Kamil Paral
On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 1:18 PM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek < zbys...@in.waw.pl> wrote: > > So all those people are happy with vi? IMHO an argument for changing > > this would be that a lot of people are already changing EDITOR to nano, > > so it makes sense to make it a default. If this is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-03 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Fri, Jul 03, 2020 at 11:08:01AM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 09:01:21AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 05:52:07PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:16:29AM -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote: > > > > > > > While it

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-03 Thread Till Maas
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 09:01:21AM +, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 05:52:07PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:16:29AM -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote: > > > > > While it may be worth vim making themselves better, it really doesn't > > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread DJ Delorie
Neal Gompa writes: > Oh man, that takes me back! I started on DOS with the MS-DOS Editor, > then went onto the DOS port of Emacs and using DJGPP, then jumped to > Linux years later... Now *that* takes me back to the days when I wrote DJGPP ;-) And for anyone who thinks vi is hard to use, try

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Stephen John Smoogen
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 13:14, Iñaki Ucar wrote: > > On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 18:54, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > > > On 01. 07. 20 18:33, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:28 am, Michael Catanzaro > > > wrote: > > >> I have not much opinion on whether we should use this vs. nano.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Iñaki Ucar
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020 at 18:54, Miro Hrončok wrote: > > On 01. 07. 20 18:33, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:28 am, Michael Catanzaro > > wrote: > >> I have not much opinion on whether we should use this vs. nano. > > > > Actually, playing with it for an extra three

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 6:42 pm, Miro Hrončok wrote: I love micro. The problematic part is it's rather big. nano: 670 k micro: 4.7 M (sizes from repoquery --info) rpm -qi micro says 16007158 bytes installed... that's 15.3 MiB, compared to nano at 2.5 MiB, and vim-minimal at 1.3 MiB. I've

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Miro Hrončok
On 01. 07. 20 18:28, Michael Catanzaro wrote: I notice that when I copy text it instructs me to "install xclip for external clipboard." That's not OK since xclip won't do anything in Wayland. Could be avoided by checking $DISPLAY before printing the message. See

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Miro Hrončok
On 01. 07. 20 18:33, Michael Catanzaro wrote: On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:28 am, Michael Catanzaro wrote: I have not much opinion on whether we should use this vs. nano. Actually, playing with it for an extra three minutes... it's *really* nice. I know micro is not nearly as standard or

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 11:28 am, Michael Catanzaro wrote: I have not much opinion on whether we should use this vs. nano. Actually, playing with it for an extra three minutes... it's *really* nice. I know micro is not nearly as standard or popular as nano, but... this is worth serious

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 6:35 am, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: 'sudo dnf install micro' ;) It seems to work nicely. I especially like the standard keyboard shortcuts. I can't figure out how to Undo in nano, but in micro I just Ctrl+Z. I have not much opinion on whether we should use

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Neal Gompa
On Wed, Jul 1, 2020 at 4:55 AM Richard W.M. Jones wrote: > > > I might support this, but Nano is a terrible editor. It has key > bindings that are quite unlike any other program and conflict with > normal bindings that newbies might be used to (eg. ^X is cut, not exit). > > If we're going to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Peter Oliver
On Wed, 1 Jul 2020, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: It has key bindings that are quite unlike any other program Well, any other program that a newcomer is nowadays reasonably likely to be familiar with. The keybindings are from the Pico text editor, and the Pine and Alpine email clients. --

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 01/07/20 09:54 +0100, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: I might support this, but Nano is a terrible editor. It has key bindings that are quite unlike any other program and conflict with normal bindings that newbies might be used to (eg. ^X is cut, not exit). If we're going to newbies how about a

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Kamil Dudka
On Wednesday, July 1, 2020 10:54:46 AM CEST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 09:44:12AM +0200, Kamil Dudka wrote: > > > On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 9:16:40 PM CEST Robert-André Mauchin wrote: > > > > > May I suggest another option? > > > I provide a package for Micro,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Richard W.M. Jones
I might support this, but Nano is a terrible editor. It has key bindings that are quite unlike any other program and conflict with normal bindings that newbies might be used to (eg. ^X is cut, not exit). If we're going to newbies how about a more MS-DOS-ish experience, eg:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Wed, Jul 01, 2020 at 09:44:12AM +0200, Kamil Dudka wrote: > On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 9:16:40 PM CEST Robert-André Mauchin wrote: > > May I suggest another option? > > I provide a package for Micro, an editor written in Go with a discoverable > > interface. https://micro-editor.github.io/ > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Kamil Dudka
On Tuesday, June 30, 2020 9:16:40 PM CEST Robert-André Mauchin wrote: > May I suggest another option? > I provide a package for Micro, an editor written in Go with a discoverable > interface. https://micro-editor.github.io/ > > It is compiled as a static binary of 4.6 MB with no dependency. How

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-07-01 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 09:47:08PM +0200, Iñaki Ucar wrote: > On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 21:24, Robert-André Mauchin wrote: > > > > May I suggest another option? > > I provide a package for Micro, an editor written in Go with a discoverable > > interface. https://micro-editor.github.io/ 'sudo dnf

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-30 Thread Iñaki Ucar
On Tue, 30 Jun 2020 at 21:24, Robert-André Mauchin wrote: > > May I suggest another option? > I provide a package for Micro, an editor written in Go with a discoverable > interface. https://micro-editor.github.io/ > > It is compiled as a static binary of 4.6 MB with no dependency. Probably >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-30 Thread Robert-André Mauchin
On Thursday, 25 June 2020 19:18:59 CEST Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > == Summary == > > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that > doesn't require specialist knowledge to use. > > == Owner == > * Name:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-30 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 05:52:07PM +0200, Till Maas wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:16:29AM -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote: > > > While it may be worth vim making themselves better, it really doesn't > > change the argument. > > > > Even a friendlier vim is still going to be far to strange

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-30 Thread Iñaki Ucar
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 19:06, Neil Horman wrote: > > Right, and I acutally think thats great. You had a problem, you asked the > questions you needed answers to, and solved your problem. I personally think > the process of identifying whats bothering you, figuring out a solution (by > asking

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-30 Thread Peter Hutterer
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:03:12AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:58 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > > From this thread you can find at least two people (me and Ben > > > Rosser) > > > who definitely didn't keep using vi (my very next questions were > > > "what's an easier

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:27 pm, Michael Catanzaro wrote: Erm... well, no. Plan foiled? The goal of using /usr/lib/environment.d was to avoid setting more environment variables in random places in various shell scripts. But if that only works in GNOME, I guess it's not a great solution after

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Ben Cotton
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 8:01 AM David Kaufmann wrote: > > Unfortunately I think this arguing is moot, as the issue seems to have > been decided already anyway. I only remember one change "proposal" to > actually being pulled back in the last year, and I'm really disappointed > about having fake

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 1:48 pm, Przemek Klosowski via devel wrote: I would like to respectfully disagree---my recollection is that when there was a vigorous opposition, the proposals were changed/retracted. In this particular case, it feels to me that the responses are mostly in favor, so it

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Przemek Klosowski via devel
On 6/29/20 7:59 AM, David Kaufmann wrote: Unfortunately I think this arguing is moot, as the issue seems to have been decided already anyway. I only remember one change "proposal" to actually being pulled back in the last year, and I'm really disappointed about having fake discussions on devel@

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Till Maas
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 08:16:29AM -0400, Gerald Henriksen wrote: > While it may be worth vim making themselves better, it really doesn't > change the argument. > > Even a friendlier vim is still going to be far to strange and > confusing to somebody just looking to quickly change a setting and

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Kamil Paral
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:21 PM Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > > > == Summary == > > > > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that > > doesn't require

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Gerald Henriksen
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 10:47:58 +0200, you wrote: >since vim addresses this when opened without a file and it is open >source, it seems to me to be a good idea to propose to adjust vim >behaviour to show the help overview when opening a file as well. For >example if there is no ~/.vimrc or some

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread David Kaufmann
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 06:11:58AM -0400, Pavel Valena wrote: > TL;DR please, +1 for nano, as "trial by fire" is not a good first > experience for someone who just wants to get something done. This is not "trial by fire", it is just a different interface than people are used from notepad.exe. Vi

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Pavel Valena
- Original Message - > From: "Till Maas" > To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" > > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:47:58 AM > Subject: Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default > editor > > Hi, > &

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Zdenek Dohnal
Hi Till, I sent a question to Vim mailing list: https://groups.google.com/g/vim_dev/c/931nvz1TKyg On 6/29/20 10:47 AM, Till Maas wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:48:56PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > >> Nothing in vi's default view (if launched with a file, which is what >> happens

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Till Maas
Hi, On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:48:56PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > Nothing in vi's default view (if launched with a file, which is what > happens in this case) tells you you need to press 'insert' in order to > actually edit anything. Nothing in vi's default view tells you you have > to type

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Markus Larsson
On 29 June 2020 04:51:40 CEST, Matthew Miller wrote: >On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 10:32:34AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: >> > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72 >> See Markus Larsson's comment on this above... > >Yeah, but as Michael points out, that doesn't really apply: it takes

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 7:51:40 PM MST Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 10:32:34AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72 > > > > See Markus Larsson's comment on this above... > > > Yeah, but as Michael points out, that doesn't

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Zdenek Dohnal
Sorry for duplicate, it was already answered. On 6/29/20 7:10 AM, Zdenek Dohnal wrote: > Spoiler alert :) > > It already does. > > On 6/26/20 3:41 PM, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote: >> - Original Message - >>> Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道: >>> >>> >>>

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread Zdenek Dohnal
Spoiler alert :) It already does. On 6/26/20 3:41 PM, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote: > > - Original Message - >> >> Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道: >> >> >> On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 08:44 +0800, Qiyu Yan wrote: >>> What about to provide a prompt to the user

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread Matthew Miller
On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 10:32:34AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72 > See Markus Larsson's comment on this above... Yeah, but as Michael points out, that doesn't really apply: it takes up literally zero additional screen space. -- Matthew Miller

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread Gerald Henriksen
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 13:23:17 -0400, you wrote: >Heres a thought that I hadn't considered before though, and it might be useful. >Apple at one point (and still may), shiped iphones without the itunes (or some >common) app on it, >and they did so intentionally, because they knew it was an app that

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/28/20 10:03 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: On Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:06:01 PM MST Igor Raits wrote: On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: I definitely agree on taking out "rhgb quiet", that's annoying as all hell, not knowing what's going on during the boot process.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread Antti
> Fedora does not currently have a default terminal text editor, because > the $EDITOR environment variable is unset by default. But a common > scenario where users wind up in a terminal text editor is when using > 'git commit'. By default, git picks vi. You need to spend time > learning how to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 26, 2020 10:53:59 AM MST David Cantrell wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:23:17PM -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > >On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:03:12AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:58 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > >> > >> > > From this thread you

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 26, 2020 11:09:31 AM MST Matthew Miller wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:50:52PM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > > That actually works really well, and we should seriously consider > > doing it. Or at least suggesting it to upstream. > > > > It doesn't even take extra

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Thursday, June 25, 2020 1:27:06 PM MST Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 8:40 pm, Ian McInerney > wrote: > > > Are you sure this will work? I just ran a test, and putting a new > > config file inside /usr/lib/environment.d only works for Gnome, and > > doesn't work for

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread Philip Rhoades
On 2020-06-29 03:03, John M. Harris Jr wrote: On Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:06:01 PM MST Igor Raits wrote: On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > I definitely agree on taking out "rhgb quiet", that's annoying as all > hell, > not knowing what's going on during the boot

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 9:50:20 AM MST John M. Harris Jr wrote: > On Thursday, June 25, 2020 10:18:59 AM MST Ben Cotton wrote: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > > > == Summary == > > > > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Saturday, June 27, 2020 1:06:01 PM MST Igor Raits wrote: > On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > I definitely agree on taking out "rhgb quiet", that's annoying as all > > hell, > > not knowing what's going on during the boot process. > > > Why does the user need to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-28 Thread alexandrebfarias
Hello, I decided to register just so I could offer my humble take on this. First of all, I have many years of Linux experience (mostly on Debian and Gentoo), but after years without having Linux on my desktop environments (though I did use it on all servers I have managed, mostly on the Debian

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread Przemek Klosowski via devel
On 6/27/20 12:50 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: As an alternative, I would like to recommend we make Emacs the default. Emacs does not require "specialist knowledge", but is much more powerful once you do learn how to use it properly. It's also not as hard to use as nano. I used emacs for 30+

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On Sat, 2020-06-27 at 09:58 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > On Thursday, June 25, 2020 2:38:13 PM MST Jan Kratochvil wrote: > > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote: > > > > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a free

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 26, 2020 5:50:01 AM MST Markus Larsson wrote: > I like to think that I am part of everyone and I would love if we could > deliver smart solutions that doesn't needlessly change default behaviour > under the guise "advanced users will know how to configure this". We're getting to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 26, 2020 1:19:45 AM MST Jan Kratochvil wrote: > It does not as I have shown. Moreover it takes so much time to do dnf > command completion and one always has to ctrl-c it anyway. That is because > dnf should use cached results updated by cron and do not contact network > during

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Friday, June 26, 2020 12:51:32 AM MST Jan Kratochvil wrote: > I feel blind when I do not see what is happening and I feel scared it will > lock up again and I will be unable to debug it. Besides that it is much > more pretty to see what is happening and it makes the waiting time > shorter. >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Thursday, June 25, 2020 2:38:13 PM MST Jan Kratochvil wrote: > On Thu, 25 Jun 2020 21:21:37 +0200, Chris Adams wrote: > > > I'm not sure why you think end-users can't use a free OS. > > > First steps of end-users is to install Chrome, Spotify and VirtualBox. > So there is left no advantage

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-27 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Thursday, June 25, 2020 10:18:59 AM MST Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > == Summary == > > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that > doesn't require specialist knowledge to use. As an alternative, I would like to

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Neil Horman
The ship on POSIX mandating vi (and defining it's behavior) sailed years ago. On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 4:11 PM Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 10:55, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > > > > > I came here with peace. Let's face it. It's always between the two. I > > > respect vim and I learned

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Solomon Peachy
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:38:40PM -0400, Ben Rosser wrote: > The -t/--tempfile switch for nano (and pico) does exactly this: > https://linux.die.net/man/1/nano Yeah, I've had EDITOR='nano -t -r 72' set in my .profile for as long as I can remember. - Solomon -- Solomon Peachy

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Przemek Klosowski via devel
On 6/26/20 10:33 AM, Neil Horman wrote: If I google how to quit vi, I see a full 10 pages of the answer to the question documented in detail The fact that people have to google their way out of such a mundane circumstance is in my opinion enough to give this proposal a: +1 As background, I

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Orcan Ogetbil
On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 10:55, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > > > I came here with peace. Let's face it. It's always between the two. I > > respect vim and I learned quite some things in vim. But I'm an emacs > > user and I find the original decision between vim and emacs for 'git > > commit' unfair. > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Todd Zullinger
I wrote: > Zdenek Dohnal wrote: >> CCing Git maintainer to see whether it can be implemented or not. I somehow forgot to say that I'm just one of several maintainers for the git package. :) I've Cc'd the git-maintainers alias to include the other folks. -- Todd signature.asc Description:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Markus Larsson
On 26 June 2020 20:08:53 CEST, Robert Relyea wrote: >On 6/25/20 12:58 PM, Jonathan Wakely wrote: >> >> >> Anyway, I find it hard to believe that serious developers are >> unable/unwilling to set their own choice of EDITOR. A systemwide >> default EDITOR=nano shouldn't cause them any real

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Neil Horman
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 07:04:51PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: > On 26/06/20 13:23 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > Heres a thought that I hadn't considered before though, and it might be > > useful. > > Apple at one point (and still may), shiped iphones without the itunes (or > > some > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Matthew Miller
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:50:52PM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote: > That actually works really well, and we should seriously consider > doing it. Or at least suggesting it to upstream. > > It doesn't even take extra space. Only uses the bottom row that > would otherwise be empty. Fine :)

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Robert Relyea
On 6/25/20 12:58 PM, Jonathan Wakely wrote: Anyway, I find it hard to believe that serious developers are unable/unwilling to set their own choice of EDITOR. A systemwide default EDITOR=nano shouldn't cause them any real difficulty. I second that. I'm the guy who gets annoyed at non-vi

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 26/06/20 13:23 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: Heres a thought that I hadn't considered before though, and it might be useful. Apple at one point (and still may), shiped iphones without the itunes (or some common) app on it, and they did so intentionally, because they knew it was an app that people

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Jonathan Wakely
On 26/06/20 19:15 +0200, David Kaufmann wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 03:42:39PM +0100, Jonathan Wakely wrote: "In the last year, How to exit the Vim editor has made up about .005% of question traffic: that is, one out of every 20,000 visits to Stack Overflow questions. That means during peak

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:15 am, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:39 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: Also, have we asked the question, what default editor are other distros setting? I've honestly never looked. I believe no major distro currently sets $EDITOR, so we would be

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread David Cantrell
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:23:17PM -0400, Neil Horman wrote: On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:03:12AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:58 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > From this thread you can find at least two people (me and Ben > > Rosser) > > who definitely didn't keep using

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:00 pm, Matthew Miller wrote: ... that would actually be really easy to do, since a patch isn't necessary. export LESS='-MPM?f%f .?n?m(%T %i of %m) ..?ltlines %lt-%lb?L/%L. :byte %bB?s/%s. .?e(END) ?x- Next\: %x.:?pB%pB\%..%t (h for help or q to quit)' But let's

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Neil Horman
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:43:10AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 13:37 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > > > > > Mint's default seems to be nano, though like openSUSE, it is doing this > > > some way other than by setting $EDITOR. > > > > > Mints just a derivative of

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Randy Barlow
On 6/25/20 1:54 PM, Randy Barlow wrote: I would like to counter propose that we make ed the default editor :P Just in case it wasn't clear, I was joking here. I support nano as a default. Let's make Fedora easier for new users, especially those who are new to the command line and/or Linux.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Neal Gompa
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:45 PM Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 13:37 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > > > > > Mint's default seems to be nano, though like openSUSE, it is doing this > > > some way other than by setting $EDITOR. > > > > > Mints just a derivative of openSuse, isn't

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Matthew Miller
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:43:10AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > Mints just a derivative of openSuse, isn't it? It would make sense that > > this followed. > I thought it was a derivative of Debian and/or Ubuntu? Wikipedia has it > in the 'Ubuntu derivatives' category. But anyhow, it doesn't

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Adam Williamson
On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 13:37 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > > > Mint's default seems to be nano, though like openSUSE, it is doing this > > some way other than by setting $EDITOR. > > > Mints just a derivative of openSuse, isn't it? It would make sense that this > followed. I thought it was a

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Matthew Miller
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 01:23:17PM -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > But thats more or less the expectation of unix and unix like systems. For > all the porcelain and chrome we've put around it, under the covers, its > all still a bag of parts, and the expectation is (or should be) when using > a bag of

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Neil Horman
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:15:45AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2020-06-26 at 12:39 -0400, Neil Horman wrote: > > > > Also, have we asked the question, what default editor are other distros > > setting? > > I've honestly never looked. > > The Change page says "More in line with the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-26 Thread Matthew Miller
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 12:12:52PM -0500, Chris Adams wrote: > I believe $EDITOR is supposed to just be an executable that can be > passed directly to exec(), so I don't think you can include arguments in > it. I tried it -- it works with git, crontab, and sudo -e. (And in all of these situations

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