Re: Libs with applications
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 02:33:34PM -0500, Steve Grubb wrote: # ldd /usr/bin/msntest | wc -l 20 # ldd /usr/lib64/libmsn.so.0.3.0 | wc -l 9 Please, be careful. ldd(1) prints recursively all dependencies. $ ldd /usr/bin/msntest | wc -l 20 $ readelf -a /usr/bin/msntest | grep NEEDED | wc -l 8 It means that the /usr/bin/msntest depends on 8 libraries only. I didn't test all of them, but the extra dependencies are unneeded. Yes, typical problem is (usually) completely broken .pc (pkg-config) file. My experience is that developers don't have a clue about 'Requires.private' pkg-config field and they add all libraries to 'Requires' or 'Libs', so then binaries are linked with many unnecessary libraries (possible workaround is --as-needed ld(1) option). man pkg-config: In the situation where each .pc file corresponds to a library, Requires.private shall be used exclusively to specify the dependencies between the libraries. $ pkg-config --libs gtk+-3.0 -pthread -lgtk-3 -lgdk-3 -latk-1.0 -lgio-2.0 -lpangoft2-1.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpng12 -lm -lcairo-gobject -lcairo -lpango-1.0 -lfreetype -lfontconfig -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lrt -lglib-2.0 ... I don't believe that gtk ABI contains symbols from all this libraries :-) Karel -- Karel Zak k...@redhat.com http://karelzak.blogspot.com -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
On Tue, 2011-11-22 at 11:46 +0100, Karel Zak wrote: Yes, typical problem is (usually) completely broken .pc (pkg-config) file. My experience is that developers don't have a clue about 'Requires.private' pkg-config field and they add all libraries to 'Requires' or 'Libs', so then binaries are linked with many unnecessary libraries (possible workaround is --as-needed ld(1) option). man pkg-config: In the situation where each .pc file corresponds to a library, Requires.private shall be used exclusively to specify the dependencies between the libraries. You have to be careful when you read documentation as well. That 'shall' sentence is a bit of a propaganda piece. In reality, things are not as black-and-white. $ pkg-config --libs gtk+-3.0 -pthread -lgtk-3 -lgdk-3 -latk-1.0 -lgio-2.0 -lpangoft2-1.0 -lpangocairo-1.0 -lgdk_pixbuf-2.0 -lpng12 -lm -lcairo-gobject -lcairo -lpango-1.0 -lfreetype -lfontconfig -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lrt -lglib-2.0 ... I don't believe that gtk ABI contains symbols from all this libraries :-) Well, the pkg-config output effectively states that they are. And changing it now will cause breakage. We already experienced that when I removed the -lpng12 and -lm from the gdk-pixbuf pc file. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
On Sun, 2011-11-20 at 21:36 +, John5342 wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 19:33, Steve Grubb sgr...@redhat.com wrote: On Sunday, November 20, 2011 02:14:09 PM drago01 wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Steve Grubb wrote: For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? If you install ONLY the 32-bit multilib, the 32-bit version. If you install BOTH the 64-bit and 32-bit packages, the 64-bit version (on all the platforms where 64-bit is preferred, which includes x86_64 and now also ppc64). If you install ONLY the 64-bit package, the 64-bit version. Yeah which means there isn't really a problem here. Well, yeah there is the other problem of dependencies and getting a smaller minimal install. For example, libnotify. # ldd /usr/bin/notify-send | wc -l 44 # ldd /usr/lib64/libnotify.so.1.2.3 | wc -l 12 or how about libmsn # ldd /usr/bin/msntest | wc -l 20 # ldd /usr/lib64/libmsn.so.0.3.0 | wc -l 9 I am the maintainer of libmsn. msntest probably could be moved to a subpackage but it is a small program. All of the dependencies found by ldd are already required by the applications using libmsn and msntest is also very useful for checking if a problem connecting to msn is caused by libmsn or the settings/applications using it. I would be happy to move msntest into a subpackage if it is specifically requested but under the current circumstances it would gain nothing and just add an extra package to the repos. Exactly. In case the binaries shipped along with the library do not pull any additional dependencies and they are reasonably small, there is no need to put them into extra subpackages. At least not until rpm drops the multilib and file-coloring support. -- Tomas Mraz No matter how far down the wrong road you've gone, turn back. Turkish proverb -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Libs with applications
Hello, I was curious how many library packages we have that also includes applications in them, so I wrote a small shell script: http://people.redhat.com/sgrubb/security/lib-bin-check On my F16 installation, it finds around 60 packages that are libraries with applications. I'd like to ask if anyone else sees this as a problem? For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? And wouldn't that also pull in unnecessary dependencies? -Steve -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Steve Grubb sgr...@redhat.com wrote: Hello, I was curious how many library packages we have that also includes applications in them, so I wrote a small shell script: http://people.redhat.com/sgrubb/security/lib-bin-check That just checks for a path. It doesn't check if the application is just a shell script, which is noarch. On my F16 installation, it finds around 60 packages that are libraries with applications. I'd like to ask if anyone else sees this as a problem? For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? And wouldn't that also pull in unnecessary dependencies? Again, not if it's noarch. The list of packages you found with problems would have been nice. josh -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
On Sunday, November 20, 2011 10:20:51 AM Josh Boyer wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Steve Grubb sgr...@redhat.com wrote: Hello, I was curious how many library packages we have that also includes applications in them, so I wrote a small shell script: http://people.redhat.com/sgrubb/security/lib-bin-check That just checks for a path. It doesn't check if the application is just a shell script, which is noarch. OK, simple fix. I'll post an improved script in a little while. On my F16 installation, it finds around 60 packages that are libraries with applications. I'd like to ask if anyone else sees this as a problem? For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? And wouldn't that also pull in unnecessary dependencies? Again, not if it's noarch. The list of packages you found with problems would have been nice. After I fix the script, I'll post the packages. -Steve -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
On Sunday, November 20, 2011 10:26:09 AM Steve Grubb wrote: On Sunday, November 20, 2011 10:20:51 AM Josh Boyer wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 10:17 AM, Steve Grubb sgr...@redhat.com wrote: Hello, I was curious how many library packages we have that also includes applications in them, so I wrote a small shell script: http://people.redhat.com/sgrubb/security/lib-bin-check That just checks for a path. It doesn't check if the application is just a shell script, which is noarch. New script posted. This dropped the list by about half. On my F16 installation, it finds around 60 packages that are libraries with applications. I'd like to ask if anyone else sees this as a problem? For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? And wouldn't that also pull in unnecessary dependencies? Again, not if it's noarch. The list of packages you found with problems would have been nice. libreport-gtk-2.0.6.x86_64 libgnome-2.32.1.x86_64 libtar-1.2.11.x86_64 libreport-newt-2.0.6.x86_64 libgpg-error-1.10.x86_64 libEMF-1.0.4.x86_64 libnotify-0.7.4.x86_64 libselinux-2.1.6.x86_64 libiptcdata-1.0.4.x86_64 libsamplerate-0.1.8.x86_64 libkgeomap-2.3.0.x86_64 libgnomekbd-3.2.0.x86_64 libmsn-4.2.x86_64 libmx-1.4.0.x86_64 libreport-2.0.6.x86_64 libxslt-1.1.26.x86_64 libvirt-0.9.6.x86_64 libcanberra-0.28.x86_64 libtunepimp-0.5.3.x86_64 libidn-1.22.x86_64 libcanberra-gtk3-0.28.x86_64 libgnome-media-profiles-3.0.0.x86_64 libhangul-0.0.12.x86_64 libcroco-0.6.2.x86_64 libkactivities-6.1.x86_64 libieee1284-0.2.11.x86_64 libgpod-0.8.2.x86_64 libwnck3-3.2.1.x86_64 But this is just my system and not an everything install. -Steve -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
Steve Grubb wrote: For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? If you install ONLY the 32-bit multilib, the 32-bit version. If you install BOTH the 64-bit and 32-bit packages, the 64-bit version (on all the platforms where 64-bit is preferred, which includes x86_64 and now also ppc64). If you install ONLY the 64-bit package, the 64-bit version. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Steve Grubb wrote: For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? If you install ONLY the 32-bit multilib, the 32-bit version. If you install BOTH the 64-bit and 32-bit packages, the 64-bit version (on all the platforms where 64-bit is preferred, which includes x86_64 and now also ppc64). If you install ONLY the 64-bit package, the 64-bit version. Yeah which means there isn't really a problem here. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
On Sunday, November 20, 2011 02:14:09 PM drago01 wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Steve Grubb wrote: For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? If you install ONLY the 32-bit multilib, the 32-bit version. If you install BOTH the 64-bit and 32-bit packages, the 64-bit version (on all the platforms where 64-bit is preferred, which includes x86_64 and now also ppc64). If you install ONLY the 64-bit package, the 64-bit version. Yeah which means there isn't really a problem here. Well, yeah there is the other problem of dependencies and getting a smaller minimal install. For example, libnotify. # ldd /usr/bin/notify-send | wc -l 44 # ldd /usr/lib64/libnotify.so.1.2.3 | wc -l 12 or how about libmsn # ldd /usr/bin/msntest | wc -l 20 # ldd /usr/lib64/libmsn.so.0.3.0 | wc -l 9 I didn't test all of them, but the extra dependencies are unneeded. -Steve -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 02:33:34PM -0500, Steve Grubb wrote: On Sunday, November 20, 2011 02:14:09 PM drago01 wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Steve Grubb wrote: For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? If you install ONLY the 32-bit multilib, the 32-bit version. If you install BOTH the 64-bit and 32-bit packages, the 64-bit version (on all the platforms where 64-bit is preferred, which includes x86_64 and now also ppc64). If you install ONLY the 64-bit package, the 64-bit version. Yeah which means there isn't really a problem here. Well, yeah there is the other problem of dependencies and getting a smaller minimal install. For example, libnotify. # ldd /usr/bin/notify-send | wc -l 44 # ldd /usr/lib64/libnotify.so.1.2.3 | wc -l 12 or how about libmsn # ldd /usr/bin/msntest | wc -l 20 # ldd /usr/lib64/libmsn.so.0.3.0 | wc -l 9 I didn't test all of them, but the extra dependencies are unneeded. This is a different problem -- it should be solved with subpackages (putting the applications in a separate subpackage from the library). Opening bugs, proposing patches, and exercising provenpackager abilities to resolve these is generally appreciated. Do be careful of the few packages where currently packages assume the utilities are in the library package and not having them there may subtly change desired behaviour. (I think most of those will be present on this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:ScriptletSnippets ) -Toshio pgpoG6JGGyGnh.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 19:33, Steve Grubb sgr...@redhat.com wrote: On Sunday, November 20, 2011 02:14:09 PM drago01 wrote: On Sun, Nov 20, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Steve Grubb wrote: For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? If you install ONLY the 32-bit multilib, the 32-bit version. If you install BOTH the 64-bit and 32-bit packages, the 64-bit version (on all the platforms where 64-bit is preferred, which includes x86_64 and now also ppc64). If you install ONLY the 64-bit package, the 64-bit version. Yeah which means there isn't really a problem here. Well, yeah there is the other problem of dependencies and getting a smaller minimal install. For example, libnotify. # ldd /usr/bin/notify-send | wc -l 44 # ldd /usr/lib64/libnotify.so.1.2.3 | wc -l 12 or how about libmsn # ldd /usr/bin/msntest | wc -l 20 # ldd /usr/lib64/libmsn.so.0.3.0 | wc -l 9 I am the maintainer of libmsn. msntest probably could be moved to a subpackage but it is a small program. All of the dependencies found by ldd are already required by the applications using libmsn and msntest is also very useful for checking if a problem connecting to msn is caused by libmsn or the settings/applications using it. I would be happy to move msntest into a subpackage if it is specifically requested but under the current circumstances it would gain nothing and just add an extra package to the repos. -- There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't... -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Libs with applications
Does anybody know of anything I can try in Fedora 16 to get the other half of my files from the Deja DUP backup? Thanks, Richard On Nov 20, 2011 7:17 AM, Steve Grubb sgr...@redhat.com wrote: Hello, I was curious how many library packages we have that also includes applications in them, so I wrote a small shell script: http://people.redhat.com/sgrubb/security/lib-bin-check On my F16 installation, it finds around 60 packages that are libraries with applications. I'd like to ask if anyone else sees this as a problem? For example, if a 32 bit library is installed, which application is left - the 64 or 32 bit one? And wouldn't that also pull in unnecessary dependencies? -Steve -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
