Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
Hi, Is there perhaps a consensus what the long-term future will look like? In particular, is it impossible/plausible/probable that most architectures will move to EFI, and if so, will virtualization also move to EFI eventually? virtualization will support EFI, but certainly not require it. Note that one important use case of virtualization is to run old software ... That would mean syslinux is not a long-term option. EFI support for syslinux is in development already, so long-term it will be there. Or is the future in this area uncertain enough that there is a benefit in having more options readily available? Well, a sane config format is reason enough, isn't it? cheers, Gerd -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: = Features/SyslinuxOption = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SyslinuxOption Feature owner(s): Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org This feature will make Syslinux an optional bootloader for Fedora, in kickstart and via a hidden Anaconda option. When used this way, it will replace grub2. So, to summarize, this saves = 6 MB of disk space, and = 1 second of boot time, at the cost of extra maintenance and QA burden in anaconda and grubby? I'd love to hear what anaconda developers and Fedora QA think about this trade-off. Is there perhaps a consensus what the long-term future will look like? In particular, is it impossible/plausible/probable that most architectures will move to EFI, and if so, will virtualization also move to EFI eventually? That would mean syslinux is not a long-term option. Or is the future in this area uncertain enough that there is a benefit in having more options readily available? Mirek -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
On Thu, 24 Jan 2013, Miloslav Trmač wrote: On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: = Features/SyslinuxOption = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SyslinuxOption Feature owner(s): Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org This feature will make Syslinux an optional bootloader for Fedora, in kickstart and via a hidden Anaconda option. When used this way, it will replace grub2. So, to summarize, this saves = 6 MB of disk space, and = 1 second of boot time, at the cost of extra maintenance and QA burden in anaconda and grubby? I'd love to hear what anaconda developers and Fedora QA think about this trade-off. Is there perhaps a consensus what the long-term future will look like? In particular, is it impossible/plausible/probable that most architectures will move to EFI, and if so, will virtualization also move to EFI eventually? That would mean syslinux is not a long-term option. Or is the future in this area uncertain enough that there is a benefit in having more options readily available? I think the benefit is for the cloud instances (of which there will be considerably more than hw-installs) that don't need the features or complexity of grub - not too mention all the deps it pulls in, iirc. that's the benefit. -sv -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
Once upon a time, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz said: So, to summarize, this saves = 6 MB of disk space, and = 1 second of boot time, at the cost of extra maintenance and QA burden in anaconda and grubby? Well, there's already code somewhere in Fedora that supports syslinux as a boot loader, as all the install and live images use it. It is also the solution for PXE booting (although I don't think there are any tools that handle PXE configuration). Wouldn't it make sense to unify all the boot loader handling code? In particular, is it impossible/plausible/probable that most architectures will move to EFI, and if so, will virtualization also move to EFI eventually? That would mean syslinux is not a long-term option. Why would that mean syslinux is not a long-term option? It doesn't support EFI in today's released versions, but support is in development. -- Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 06:57:09PM +0100, Miloslav Trmač wrote: On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: = Features/SyslinuxOption = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SyslinuxOption Feature owner(s): Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org This feature will make Syslinux an optional bootloader for Fedora, in kickstart and via a hidden Anaconda option. When used this way, it will replace grub2. So, to summarize, this saves = 6 MB of disk space, and = 1 second of boot time, at the cost of extra maintenance and QA burden in anaconda and grubby? I'd love to hear what anaconda developers and Fedora QA think about this trade-off. I really like it, tbh, for e.g. smallish virt machine images, where the size of grub2 really is a bit excessive. Is there perhaps a consensus what the long-term future will look like? In particular, is it impossible/plausible/probable that most architectures will move to EFI, and if so, will virtualization also move to EFI eventually? It follows that we will have EFI on virt (*possibly* still with a CSM) eventually, and in that case, syslinux in its current form would not be an option on such machines. But in the near term, we'll still just have BIOS in VMs, and this is beneficial there. That would mean syslinux is not a long-term option. At least in its current form. -- Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
On Thu, Jan 24, 2013 at 12:48:18PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote: Once upon a time, Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz said: So, to summarize, this saves = 6 MB of disk space, and = 1 second of boot time, at the cost of extra maintenance and QA burden in anaconda and grubby? Well, there's already code somewhere in Fedora that supports syslinux as a boot loader, as all the install and live images use it. It is also the solution for PXE booting (although I don't think there are any tools that handle PXE configuration). Wouldn't it make sense to unify all the boot loader handling code? It pretty much already is - installation is handled by anaconda, and so that part of it lives there, and upgrades live in grubby, which handles a great many formats, including extlinux already. -- Peter -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
On Thu, 2013-01-24 at 18:57 +0100, Miloslav Trmač wrote: On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 8:30 PM, Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: = Features/SyslinuxOption = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SyslinuxOption Feature owner(s): Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org This feature will make Syslinux an optional bootloader for Fedora, in kickstart and via a hidden Anaconda option. When used this way, it will replace grub2. So, to summarize, this saves = 6 MB of disk space, and = 1 second of boot time, at the cost of extra maintenance and QA burden in anaconda and grubby? I'd love to hear what anaconda developers and Fedora QA think about this trade-off. The proposal doesn't appear to include making this release blocking functionality, so we'd feel no particular obligation to test it extensively. So I don't see any real QA impact at least in the short term. We could by all means throw an optional test in the matrix for people to run if they want to, writing one would be, oh, ten minutes of hard labour. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | identi.ca: adamwfedora http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
= Features/SyslinuxOption = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SyslinuxOption Feature owner(s): Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org This feature will make Syslinux an optional bootloader for Fedora, in kickstart and via a hidden Anaconda option. When used this way, it will replace grub2. == Detailed description == The Syslinux bootloader has been part of Fedora for over a decade. It's been well-tested as the loader for the installer, but we've always used something else on the installed OS. Newer versions of Syslinux (in the form of a version called Extlinux) can boot from ext2/3/4 or from btrfs. ___ devel-announce mailing list devel-annou...@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
On Wed, 23 Jan 2013 19:30:09 + Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: = Features/SyslinuxOption = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SyslinuxOption Feature owner(s): Matthew Miller mat...@fedoraproject.org This feature will make Syslinux an optional bootloader for Fedora, in kickstart and via a hidden Anaconda option. When used this way, it will replace grub2. == Detailed description == The Syslinux bootloader has been part of Fedora for over a decade. It's been well-tested as the loader for the installer, but we've always used something else on the installed OS. Newer versions of Syslinux (in the form of a version called Extlinux) can boot from ext2/3/4 or from btrfs. Two small things to note: a) I assume we aren't going to be adding secure boot support to it? b) It might be good to note in docs/anaconda any configurations which are not supported by syslinux vs grub2. ie, can lvm2 be used for /boot? kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
On Wed, 23.01.13 13:17, Kevin Fenzi (ke...@scrye.com) wrote: The Syslinux bootloader has been part of Fedora for over a decade. It's been well-tested as the loader for the installer, but we've always used something else on the installed OS. Newer versions of Syslinux (in the form of a version called Extlinux) can boot from ext2/3/4 or from btrfs. Two small things to note: a) I assume we aren't going to be adding secure boot support to it? secure boot is an EFI think. syslinux doesn't do EFI boots (at least not in any stable version). Lennart -- Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Proposed F19 Feature: Syslinux Option
On Wed, Jan 23, 2013 at 01:17:12PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote: a) I assume we aren't going to be adding secure boot support to it? Right -- explicitly out of scope for this. Could be a future feature but we don't need it now and certainly wouldn't want to make it a feature blocker. b) It might be good to note in docs/anaconda any configurations which are not supported by syslinux vs grub2. ie, can lvm2 be used for /boot? Yes. I'd be happy to have help with that. :) -- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ mat...@fedoraproject.org -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
