Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-22 Thread Richard W.M. Jones
I know that you're not proposing this, but can I just interject that if you make any of these files unreadable by 'other', then supermin appliance building will break. http://libguestfs.org/febootstrap.8.html#supermin_appliances I think supermin appliances are a sufficiently useful mechanism to

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-22 Thread Henrik Nordström
tis 2010-12-21 klockan 11:47 -0500 skrev Colin Walters: But they still have uid 0, which typical system installation allows root to do things. For example, /bin/sh is 0755 and /bin is also 0755 perms. A disarmed root process can still trojan a system. But what if we got rid of all the

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-22 Thread Henrik Nordström
tis 2010-12-21 klockan 18:52 -0500 skrev i.g...@comcast.net: Ok, so who says that the files must be owned by root? Make them owned by some other user -- say, bin? (or does that have another use that my google search isn't coming up with?) Better to make the process not run as root imho.

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-22 Thread Henrik Nordström
ons 2010-12-22 klockan 00:59 +0100 skrev Miloslav Trmač: This is possible, but it would be a much larger change to the system. To take a particular example, look at /etc/shadow. It needs to be protected against attackers, so it should not be owned by root - let's make it owned by adm, say.

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-21 Thread Colin Walters
Pardon the thread necromancy, So recently I had cause to look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/RemoveSETUID again (I was investigating the X server permissions for an unrelated reason). Now, that page links to http://people.redhat.com/sgrubb/libcap-ng/index.html which attempts to

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-21 Thread Daniel J Walsh
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/21/2010 11:47 AM, Colin Walters wrote: Pardon the thread necromancy, So recently I had cause to look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/RemoveSETUID again (I was investigating the X server permissions for an unrelated reason).

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-21 Thread Colin Walters
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Daniel J Walsh dwa...@redhat.com wrote: File capabilities just limit the number of capabilities an application starts with.  setuid app means an app starts with all 32, a couple of new ones, capabilities.  Then it is up to the app developer to drop the

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-21 Thread Daniel J Walsh
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 12/21/2010 03:50 PM, Colin Walters wrote: On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Daniel J Walsh dwa...@redhat.com wrote: File capabilities just limit the number of capabilities an application starts with. setuid app means an app starts with all 32,

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-21 Thread Miloslav Trmač
Colin Walters píše v Út 21. 12. 2010 v 11:47 -0500: But they still have uid 0, which typical system installation allows root to do things. For example, /bin/sh is 0755 and /bin is also 0755 perms. A disarmed root process can still trojan a system. But what if we got rid of all the read/write

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-21 Thread Colin Walters
2010/12/21 Miloslav Trmač m...@volny.cz: If an attacker were controlling a process running with uid 0 and no capabilities at all, and /bin/sh were 0555, nothing prevents the attacker from chmod()ing /bin/sh to 0755 and overwriting it.  This makes any attempts to change the file permissions

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-21 Thread i . grok
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:37:44PM +0100, Miloslav Trmač wrote devel: Colin Walters píše v Út 21. 12. 2010 v 11:47 -0500: But they still have uid 0, which typical system installation allows root to do things. For example, /bin/sh is 0755 and /bin is also 0755 perms. A disarmed root process

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-21 Thread Miloslav Trmač
i.g...@comcast.net píše v Út 21. 12. 2010 v 18:52 -0500: On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 10:37:44PM +0100, Miloslav Trmač wrote devel: Colin Walters píše v Út 21. 12. 2010 v 11:47 -0500: But they still have uid 0, which typical system installation allows root to do things. For example, /bin/sh is

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-12-21 Thread Dick Tayter
2010/12/21 Miloslav Trmač: If an attacker were controlling a process running with uid 0 and no capabilities at all, and /bin/sh were 0555, nothing prevents the attacker from chmod()ing /bin/sh to 0755 and overwriting it. This makes any attempts to change the file permissions rather

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-11-07 Thread Lennart Poettering
On Mon, 01.11.10 20:28, Richard W.M. Jones (rjo...@redhat.com) wrote: On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 07:19:15PM +, Paul Howarth wrote: Any suggestions? We've encountered some funny things about tmpfs before: It doesn't support O_DIRECT at all, for example, necessitating workarounds in

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-11-01 Thread Paul Howarth
On 29/10/10 04:15, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: JN == Joe Nallj...@nall.com writes: JN On Oct 28, 2010, at 5:08 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: More to the point, I can easily see the setuid bit easily on a binary. How do I tell if these strange/hidden capabilities are present on a binary?

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-11-01 Thread Daniel J Walsh
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 11/01/2010 09:44 AM, Paul Howarth wrote: On 29/10/10 04:15, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: JN == Joe Nallj...@nall.com writes: JN On Oct 28, 2010, at 5:08 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: More to the point, I can easily see the setuid bit easily

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-11-01 Thread Paul Howarth
On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 11:04:09 -0400 Daniel J Walsh dwa...@redhat.com wrote: On 11/01/2010 09:44 AM, Paul Howarth wrote: On 29/10/10 04:15, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: JN == Joe Nallj...@nall.com writes: JN On Oct 28, 2010, at 5:08 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: More to the point, I

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-11-01 Thread Richard W.M. Jones
On Mon, Nov 01, 2010 at 07:19:15PM +, Paul Howarth wrote: Any suggestions? We've encountered some funny things about tmpfs before: It doesn't support O_DIRECT at all, for example, necessitating workarounds in libguestfs/qemu. Just speculating, but maybe it doesn't support extended

Re: RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-10-29 Thread Panu Matilainen
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote: JN == Joe Nall j...@nall.com writes: JN On Oct 28, 2010, at 5:08 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: More to the point, I can easily see the setuid bit easily on a binary. How do I tell if these strange/hidden capabilities are present on a

RemoveSETUID feature (Was: Summary/Minutes from today's FESCo meeting (2010-10-26) NEW TIME!)

2010-10-28 Thread Jason L Tibbitts III
JN == Joe Nall j...@nall.com writes: JN On Oct 28, 2010, at 5:08 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote: More to the point, I can easily see the setuid bit easily on a binary. How do I tell if these strange/hidden capabilities are present on a binary? 'ls' doesn't mention anything. JN getcap