On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 18:09 -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
What more do you want an MTA to do at install? It was decided a long
time ago that the MTA shouldn't listen for remote SMTP connections by
default. Pretty much any other thing I can think of (such as
delivering root mail to a non-root
Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote:
sendmail has always worked out of the box for some things, including
sending mail from local programs to remote email addresses
I thought this was a speed trip to spamhaus' lists (the `localhost'
part I've found). I had to get my machine off of it when I
Chris Adams (cmad...@hiwaay.net) said:
Once upon a time, Garrett Holmstrom gho...@fedoraproject.org said:
While it may be debatable what benefit one might get from removing it
from the default install, can we at least remove MTAs from @core to help
make things easier for appliance folks?
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 6:04 AM, David Woodhouse dw...@infradead.org wrote:
On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 18:09 -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
What more do you want an MTA to do at install? It was decided a long
time ago that the MTA shouldn't listen for remote SMTP connections by
default. Pretty much
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 8:04 AM, Ben Boeckel maths...@gmail.com wrote:
Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote:
sendmail has always worked out of the box for some things, including
sending mail from local programs to remote email addresses
I thought this was a speed trip to spamhaus' lists (the
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 17:06 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 16:47 -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 4:23 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 04:15:12PM -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
It would be good to define such a nonstandard abbreviation as
On Fri, 2010-08-27 at 20:07 +0200, Björn Sund wrote:
repoquery --whatprovides MDA
repoquery --whatprovides MUA
Honestly, I think things like that would be better off as pkgtags on the
pkgs in the pkgdb!
-sv
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Matthew Miller, Tue, 24 Aug 2010 10:09:52 -0400:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:58:50AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Why are you complaining? If your package needs an MTA - put in a
Requires!
If we follow the general state of things: if a package might need
something, toss it in as a
Matthew Garrett, Tue, 24 Aug 2010 15:43:36 +0100:
If the question is How do I ensure that important
system messages get delivered to someone who can do something about them
in a timely manner, a local MTA isn't a great answer.
It would be if (rather obvious)
Jon Masters jonat...@jonmasters.org writes:
What's the benefit of having no default MTA at all? Is it that Desktop
users don't care about MTAs being installed? what about those of us who
care more about server installations than Desktop?
I have desktops with no MTA. I can read mail on them
On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 20:30 +0200, Krzysztof Halasa wrote:
Jon Masters jonat...@jonmasters.org writes:
What's the benefit of having no default MTA at all? Is it that Desktop
users don't care about MTAs being installed? what about those of us who
care more about server installations than
On 08/27/2010 12:20 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
That wasn't the question. The question was what is the benefit of not
having one. Is it simply that it saves 1.6MB of disk space? If so, uh,
woop?
I think, that reverses the responsibility. If anything is installed by
default, *that* needs a
On Fri, 2010-08-27 at 01:14 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 08/27/2010 12:20 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
That wasn't the question. The question was what is the benefit of not
having one. Is it simply that it saves 1.6MB of disk space? If so, uh,
woop?
I think, that reverses the
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 3:58 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, 2010-08-27 at 01:14 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 08/27/2010 12:20 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
That wasn't the question. The question was what is the benefit of not
having one. Is it simply that it saves
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, 2010-08-27 at 01:14 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 08/27/2010 12:20 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
That wasn't the question. The question was what is the benefit of not
having one. Is it simply that it saves
On 26/08/10 21:10, mike cloaked wrote:
snip
Or put another way I
wonder what fraction of users would include yum install sendmail (or
equivalent) as one of the first actions after an install?
As an ordinary? user, it's yum install exim,
as I dont know of another method as of yet,
to get
On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 16:00 -0400, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
I think that makes sense if we're talking about adding a default, but
taking one out - especially something that's been default in all Unix-y
OSes for ever - is a different case.
sendmail currently serves little to no use on a
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 4:22 PM, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 16:00 -0400, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
I think that makes sense if we're talking about adding a default, but
taking one out - especially something that's been default in all Unix-y
OSes for ever
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 05:25:18PM -0400, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
We're going in circles. I already said that I think the best fix for
this is to replace sendmail with an MTA which works 'out of the box'.
For what purpose? It has never worked in all of Fedora's existence --
no one expects it
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote:
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 05:25:18PM -0400, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
We're going in circles. I already said that I think the best fix for
this is to replace sendmail with an MTA which works 'out of the box'.
For what
Once upon a time, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com said:
We're going in circles. I already said that I think the best fix for
this is to replace sendmail with an MTA which works 'out of the box'.
You need to define works. sendmail has always worked out of the box
for some things, including
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 05:31:58PM -0400, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
Useful information is being generated and then lost. That shouldn't happen.
This is not a sudden realization, there are bugs open about this for
multiple releases. Why wait till there is even less need for it to
want to fix it?
On Aug 26, 2010, at 13:50, Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 20:30 +0200, Krzysztof Halasa wrote:
Jon Masters jonat...@jonmasters.org writes:
What's the benefit of having no default MTA at all? Is it that Desktop
users don't care about MTAs being installed?
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote:
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 05:31:58PM -0400, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
Useful information is being generated and then lost. That shouldn't happen.
This is not a sudden realization, there are bugs open about this for
multiple
Once upon a time, Garrett Holmstrom gho...@fedoraproject.org said:
While it may be debatable what benefit one might get from removing it
from the default install, can we at least remove MTAs from @core to help
make things easier for appliance folks? One can still go in @base,
which would
Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote:
Once upon a time, Garrett Holmstrom gho...@fedoraproject.org said:
While it may be debatable what benefit one might get from removing it
from the default install, can we at least remove MTAs from @core to help
make things easier for appliance folks?
Once upon a time, Jesse Keating jkeat...@j2solutions.net said:
Why is sendmail also in @Base
You can opt out of base but not core. If any changes are made it should be so
that one can install just core and not get an mta.
Yes, I know that. I was wondering how it ended up in both (if
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Jon Masters jonat...@jonmasters.org wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 17:54 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 22:52 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 05:43:49PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
that seems like a bit of odd logic. The
On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 07:23 +0100, pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Jon Masters jonat...@jonmasters.org wrote:
I have an MTA installed because I expect to get emailed logs, and root@
does go somewhere. Now, there are a couple of things I should admit:
1). I
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Jon Masters jonat...@jonmasters.org wrote:
On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 07:23 +0100, pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:34 AM, Jon Masters jonat...@jonmasters.org
wrote:
I have an MTA installed because I expect to get emailed logs, and root@
Adam Williamson wrote:
FWIW, I'm with Jon and Adam on this one. I just don't see how not having
an MTA by default is a win, except in disk space terms, and it takes up
a tiny amount of disk space (especially if we pick a lighter-weight one
than sendmail to be the default). I think it makes
Chris Adams wrote:
How many users use at or bc (well, I use dc all the time)?
Well, at least at is a nice command and some people use it, but…
What about ed?
… it's time we drop such legacy junk! Scripts are all written to sed (or
something entirely different, like awk or perl) these days,
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 9:01 AM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote:
Adam Williamson wrote:
FWIW, I'm with Jon and Adam on this one. I just don't see how not having
an MTA by default is a win, except in disk space terms, and it takes up
a tiny amount of disk space (especially if we pick
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 9:12 AM, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote:
It also takes up live image space, which is a very scarce resource, it's
always a fight to keep our live images within the size constraints.
Which is fixable by admitting that we lost that fight and move to a
modern medium
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:20:44AM +0100, mike cloaked wrote:
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 9:12 AM, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote:
It also takes up live image space, which is a very scarce resource, it's
always a fight to keep our live images within the size constraints.
Which is fixable
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 07:44:55AM +0100, pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
has to do with the discussion. I actually want it so its easy to make
tiny appliances and routers without having to manually strip a whole
lot of crap out. As I mentioned above there's nothing to stop it being
included in
On 08/24/2010 05:47 PM, pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Till Maas opensou...@till.name wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 03:43:36PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
The problem with delivering this to a user's mailbox via an MTA is that
in the typical case it doesn't
2010/8/24 pbrobin...@gmail.com pbrobin...@gmail.com:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Rudolf Kastl che...@gmail.com wrote:
my desktop runs on software mirror raid below an lvm. not for
performance but for data recovery reasons. mdmonitor does mail
notification. will this be fixed? how about
* mike cloaked [25/08/2010 12:27] :
I wonder what fraction of users don't use DVD these days?
I've switched to PXE-based installs. Haven't used a DVD/CD in ages.
Emmanuel
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On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 09:08:22AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
What about ed?
… it's time we drop such legacy junk! Scripts are all written to sed (or
something entirely different, like awk or perl) these days, and nobody
seriously uses ed for interactive editing (there are tons of more
On 08/25/2010 09:08 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Chris Adams wrote:
How many users use at or bc (well, I use dc all the time)?
Well, at least at is a nice command and some people use it, but…
What about ed?
… it's time we drop such legacy junk!
What you offend as legacy junk is mandated by
Ralf Corsepius rc040...@freenet.de writes:
On 08/25/2010 09:08 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Chris Adams wrote:
How many users use at or bc (well, I use dc all the time)?
Well, at least at is a nice command and some people use it, but…
What about ed?
… it's time we drop such legacy junk!
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:32 AM, Till Maas opensou...@till.name wrote:
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 10:20:44AM +0100, mike cloaked wrote:
On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 9:12 AM, drago01 drag...@gmail.com wrote:
It also takes up live image space, which is a very scarce resource, it's
always a fight to
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 22:41 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:52:45AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
FWIW, I'm with Jon and Adam on this one. I just don't see how not having
an MTA by default is a win, except in disk space terms, and it takes up
a tiny amount of disk
On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 09:01 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
Adam Williamson wrote:
FWIW, I'm with Jon and Adam on this one. I just don't see how not having
an MTA by default is a win, except in disk space terms, and it takes up
a tiny amount of disk space (especially if we pick a lighter-weight
pbrobin...@gmail.com pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
Its got nothing to do with gnome what so ever. I don't see what that
has to do with the discussion. I actually want it so its easy to make
tiny appliances and routers without having to manually strip a whole
lot of crap out. As I mentioned above
2010/8/25 Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 22:41 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:52:45AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
FWIW, I'm with Jon and Adam on this one. I just don't see how not having
an MTA by default is a win, except in disk space
my desktop runs on software mirror raid below an lvm. not for
performance but for data recovery reasons. mdmonitor does mail
notification. will this be fixed? how about logwatch, it is really
useful to have to get an overview what happened on the system in a
neat summary. also handy for desktops
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 9:36 AM, Rudolf Kastl che...@gmail.com wrote:
my desktop runs on software mirror raid below an lvm. not for
performance but for data recovery reasons. mdmonitor does mail
notification. will this be fixed? how about logwatch, it is really
useful to have to get an
On 08/23/2010 08:15 PM, Jon Masters wrote:
On Sun, 2010-08-22 at 20:10 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Rex Dieter rdie...@math.unl.edu wrote:
pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
I know its been discussed in the past but there's been reasons not to
drop a default MTA but now
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Andrew Haley a...@redhat.com wrote:
On 08/23/2010 08:15 PM, Jon Masters wrote:
On Sun, 2010-08-22 at 20:10 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Rex Dieter rdie...@math.unl.edu wrote:
pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
I know its been discussed in
On 08/24/2010 12:47 PM, pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:43 PM, Andrew Haley a...@redhat.com wrote:
On 08/23/2010 08:15 PM, Jon Masters wrote:
On Sun, 2010-08-22 at 20:10 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Rex Dieter rdie...@math.unl.edu wrote:
Once upon a time, pbrobin...@gmail.com pbrobin...@gmail.com said:
Neither of those need to run a MTA locally to work, you just need to
point them to a mail server, even then they need to be configured to
send the mail to something other than root anyway.
They can't be configured that way; they
Chris Adams wrote:
What do we gain by not having any MTA installed (other than a little bit
of disk space)? I understand that a little bit of disk space can add
up quick, but a local queueing MTA is a pretty standard part of a Unix
system.
Why are you complaining? If your package needs an
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:56:21AM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
I'm still of the opinion that there should be _something_ at the
de-facto standard location of /usr/sbin/sendmail that can queue messages
for later delivery. I don't care whether it is actually sendmail or
not. Preferably, it
On 08/24/2010 02:58 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Chris Adams wrote:
What do we gain by not having any MTA installed (other than a little bit
of disk space)? I understand that a little bit of disk space can add
up quick, but a local queueing MTA is a pretty standard part of a Unix
system.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:58:50AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Why are you complaining? If your package needs an MTA - put in a Requires!
If we follow the general state of things: if a package might need
something, toss it in as a requires!, this will totally defeat the purpose
of the
Andrew Haley wrote:
Not everything that runs on Fedora is a Fedora package: people run
their own programs, too. Some things, like the existence of /bin/ls
or being able to send mail by piping the message to either /bin/mail
or/usr/{sbin,lib}/sendmail are basic features of UNIX.
No one is
Once upon a time, Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com said:
Chris Adams wrote:
What do we gain by not having any MTA installed (other than a little bit
of disk space)? I understand that a little bit of disk space can add
up quick, but a local queueing MTA is a pretty standard part of a
Matthew Miller wrote:
If we follow the general state of things: if a package might need
something, toss it in as a requires!, this will totally defeat the purpose
of the comps change, since it will get pulled in by something important at
some point. Rsyslog, for example, can send output via
On 24/08/10 15:13, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Michael Cronenworthm...@cchtml.com said:
Chris Adams wrote:
What do we gain by not having any MTA installed (other than a little bit
of disk space)? I understand that a little bit of disk space can add
up quick, but a local queueing
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:09 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:58:50AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Why are you complaining? If your package needs an MTA - put in a Requires!
If we follow the general state of things: if a package might need
something, toss it in as
Paul Howarth wrote:
I use at on a regular basis, to schedule large downloads and uploads
when my ADSL bandwidth becomes unmetered after midnight.
And I like getting the resulting email in the morning showing that all
went well, or not as the case may be.
No one will prevent you from doing
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:19 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
My previous objection was based on the precedent it sets. I don't want a
Desktop distribution in Fedora. I want a server-usable distribution.
Sure, it's just a dep and one can go install an MTA. But today it's
killing the MTA, tomorrow
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:36 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:19 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
My previous objection was based on the precedent it sets. I don't want a
Desktop distribution in Fedora. I want a server-usable distribution.
Sure, it's just a dep and one
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:56:21AM -0500, Chris Adams wrote:
They can't be configured that way; they don't implement SMTP. It is a
de-facto standard for Unix programs to send mail by piping the message
to either /bin/mail or /usr/{sbin,lib}/sendmail. That has the advantage
of queueing for
Matthew Garrett wrote:
The long term fix would arguably be to provide a stub /usr/sbin/sendmail
that ties into a more generic event reporting interface, which in turn
could be configured to send mail elsewhere but would default to popping
up some sort of desktop notification.
Already works
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 03:43:36PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
There's certainly a set of people who want an MTA for this - in a server
environment it's obviously far more straightforward to get mailed on
failure, and that's something that you'll probably configure when
This isn't
On 08/24/2010 03:37 PM, Jon Masters wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:36 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:19 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
My previous objection was based on the precedent it sets. I don't want a
Desktop distribution in Fedora. I want a server-usable
Andrew Haley wrote:
I think there's a much more fundamental question here, which is
whether a default Fedora installation is intended to be a real
UNIX-like system or just the dependencies for GNOME.
I was going to reply to Chris, but I'll reply here.
What benefit do I, or anyone else,
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:10 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Andrew Haley wrote:
I think there's a much more fundamental question here, which is
whether a default Fedora installation is intended to be a real
UNIX-like system or just the dependencies for GNOME.
I was going to reply to
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 09:46:26AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Matthew Garrett wrote:
The long term fix would arguably be to provide a stub /usr/sbin/sendmail
that ties into a more generic event reporting interface, which in turn
could be configured to send mail elsewhere but would
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:53:13AM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 03:43:36PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
There's certainly a set of people who want an MTA for this - in a server
environment it's obviously far more straightforward to get mailed on
failure, and
Once upon a time, Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com said:
What benefit do I, or anyone else, receive by shipping a 100% Unix-clone
environment by default? With PCs evolving every 5-10 years, will
Unix-like be necessary for much longer? Are we making a Fedora for
people to use or for
Andrew Haley a...@redhat.com wrote:
On 08/24/2010 02:58 PM, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Chris Adams wrote:
What do we gain by not having any MTA installed (other than a little bit
of disk space)? I understand that a little bit of disk space can add
up quick, but a local queueing MTA is a
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 03:43:36PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
The problem with delivering this to a user's mailbox via an MTA is that
in the typical case it doesn't result in the user noticing anything
until they've logged in as root and find out that the you have new
mail message
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 5:37 PM, Till Maas opensou...@till.name wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 03:43:36PM +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
The problem with delivering this to a user's mailbox via an MTA is that
in the typical case it doesn't result in the user noticing anything
until they've
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Jon Masters jonat...@jonmasters.org wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:09 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:58:50AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Why are you complaining? If your package needs an MTA - put in a Requires!
If we follow
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Matthew Miller mat...@mattdm.org wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:58:50AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Why are you complaining? If your package needs an MTA - put in a Requires!
If we follow the general state of things: if a package might need
something,
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:37 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:36 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 10:19 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
My previous objection was based on the precedent it sets. I don't want a
Desktop distribution in Fedora. I want a
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:27, Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com wrote:
Paul Howarth wrote:
I use at on a regular basis, to schedule large downloads and uploads
when my ADSL bandwidth becomes unmetered after midnight.
And I like getting the resulting email in the morning showing that all
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:27:04PM +0100, Adam Huffman wrote:
Not really related to the original discussion, but perhaps firstboot
could be amended to add an alias when the first user is created such
that they receive root's mail?
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=135592
and
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:52:45AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
FWIW, I'm with Jon and Adam on this one. I just don't see how not having
an MTA by default is a win, except in disk space terms, and it takes up
a tiny amount of disk space (especially if we pick a lighter-weight one
than
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 08:27:04PM +0100, Adam Huffman wrote:
Not really related to the original discussion, but perhaps firstboot
could be amended to add an alias when the first user is created such
that they receive root's mail?
At the point where you're writing more code to fix a problem
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 22:41 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 11:52:45AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
FWIW, I'm with Jon and Adam on this one. I just don't see how not having
an MTA by default is a win, except in disk space terms, and it takes up
a tiny amount of disk
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 05:43:49PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
that seems like a bit of odd logic. The logs are emitted to syslog with
the same thought in mind - that someone will read them - but that is
also not necessarily true. But I would not want to see us discarding
syslog, either.
We
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 22:52 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 05:43:49PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
that seems like a bit of odd logic. The logs are emitted to syslog with
the same thought in mind - that someone will read them - but that is
also not necessarily true.
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Matthew Garrett mj...@srcf.ucam.org wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 05:43:49PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
that seems like a bit of odd logic. The logs are emitted to syslog with
the same thought in mind - that someone will read them - but that is
also not
-Original Message-
From: devel-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org
[mailto:devel-boun...@lists.fedoraproject.org] On Behalf
Of pbrobin...@gmail.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 3:03 PM
To: Development discussions related to Fedora
Subject: Re: drop default MTA for Fedora 15
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 17:54 -0400, seth vidal wrote:
On Tue, 2010-08-24 at 22:52 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 05:43:49PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
that seems like a bit of odd logic. The logs are emitted to syslog with
the same thought in mind - that someone
On Sunday, August 22, 2010 12:45:46 pm Rex Dieter wrote:
pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
I know its been discussed in the past but there's been reasons not to
drop a default MTA but now that cronie (the last actual dependency)
has support for logging to system logs is there any reason to
On Sun, 2010-08-22 at 20:10 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Rex Dieter rdie...@math.unl.edu wrote:
pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
I know its been discussed in the past but there's been reasons not to
drop a default MTA but now that cronie (the last actual dependency)
On 08/23/2010 02:21 PM, pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Jon Mastersjonat...@jonmasters.org wrote:
On Sun, 2010-08-22 at 20:10 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Rex Dieterrdie...@math.unl.edu wrote:
pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
I know its
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 03:15:11PM -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
What's the benefit of having no default MTA at all? Is it that Desktop
users don't care about MTAs being installed? what about those of us who
care more about server installations than Desktop?
Given the degree to which sysadmins
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 20:37 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 03:15:11PM -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
What's the benefit of having no default MTA at all? Is it that Desktop
users don't care about MTAs being installed? what about those of us who
care more about server
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Jon Ciesla l...@jcomserv.net wrote:
On 08/23/2010 02:21 PM, pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 8:15 PM, Jon Mastersjonat...@jonmasters.org wrote:
On Sun, 2010-08-22 at 20:10 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 7:45 PM, Rex
This has all been talked about in the past and there was even some
action taken on it. I wrote up the wiki page, but Will Woods did all
the heavy lifting. We missed our target and appear to have been side
tracked since but there aren't really many line items left before we
can pull the trigger.
pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote:
I know its been discussed in the past but there's been reasons not to
drop a default MTA but now that cronie (the last actual dependency)
has support for logging to system logs is there any reason to include
an MTA by default for F-14?
It would be good to define
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 04:15:12PM -0400, Orcan Ogetbil wrote:
It would be good to define such a nonstandard abbreviation as MTA
when posting a new thread so that more people would know what is being
discussed.
It's actually a long-standing and well-recognized term.
I think it's one of those
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 15:48 -0400, Jon Masters wrote:
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 20:37 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote:
Given the degree to which sysadmins are religious about MTA choice, I'd
suspect that a large proportion of people who run an MTA on Fedora are
probably already swapping it out
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