Aside: Neighborhood participants
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Morgan Collett wrote: Also don't blame avahi for the fact that we send out updates every time you alt-tab between shared activities, so that your icon can jump to the appropriate snowflake on everyone else's Neighborhood Views... I _strongly_ object to this behavior. Not only is this flooding the mesh with useless broadcasts, but it provides exactly the _wrong_ result in the UI. When I look at the Neighborhood view, I want to see who is participating in each shared instance. Instead, the view shows me who is in that particular window at this time. It's as if IRC clients only showed you as present in the room that is currently visible on your screen. We should remove this feature and instead show each person in the ring around each activity they have joined. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmHIr0ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSr6QCfVIKVafX44TFETpmNao8mGevr ldUAoJ+q09kT87G/PzJDdT2ND3HzE0Fl =yxQR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Aside: Neighborhood participants
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Morgan Collett wrote: Also don't blame avahi for the fact that we send out updates every time you alt-tab between shared activities, so that your icon can jump to the appropriate snowflake on everyone else's Neighborhood Views... I _strongly_ object to this behavior. Not only is this flooding the mesh with useless broadcasts, but it provides exactly the _wrong_ result in the UI. When I look at the Neighborhood view, I want to see who is participating in each shared instance. Instead, the view shows me who is in that particular window at this time. It's as if IRC clients only showed you as present in the room that is currently visible on your screen. +1 -Wade ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Touchpad problem
Tks all, I will try the four finger salute! I might try 8.2.1, but I don't really have time for now, maybe soon. Either way, the real problem hasn't been identified, is that right? Since the solution seems to be running some kind of script, either forced or automatically. Best regards, Tiago Marques On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 6:00 PM, p...@laptop.org wrote: daniel wrote: 2009/2/1 p...@laptop.org: i asked dan the same thing. the only true fix i know of in 8.2.1 keeps the touchpad from locking up entirely on occasion. this happens only rarely in earlier releases (and can be corrected by suspending/resuming the laptop). That's what I'm referring to. Details are a little unclear but I think that Tiago is describing the exact problem that you fixed where recalibration fails and the mouse stops. I think this is a fair assumption given how often this seems to happen... ah -- sorry. i misread his symptoms. paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Touchpad problem
2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com: Tks all, I will try the four finger salute! I might try 8.2.1, but I don't really have time for now, maybe soon. Either way, the real problem hasn't been identified, is that right? Since the solution seems to be running some kind of script, either forced or automatically. The real problem is (apparently) in hardware. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Aside: Neighborhood participants
On 2 Feb 2009, at 16:43, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Morgan Collett wrote: Also don't blame avahi for the fact that we send out updates every time you alt-tab between shared activities, so that your icon can jump to the appropriate snowflake on everyone else's Neighborhood Views... I _strongly_ object to this behavior. Not only is this flooding the mesh with useless broadcasts, but it provides exactly the _wrong_ result in the UI. When I look at the Neighborhood view, I want to see who is participating in each shared instance. Instead, the view shows me who is in that particular window at this time. It's as if IRC clients only showed you as present in the room that is currently visible on your screen. +1 We should remove this feature and instead show each person in the ring around each activity they have joined. However there are some interesting UI design issues (). XO buddy icons are currently unique identities, this will lead to your icons being in multiple places in the neighbourhood (and group) view (on each shared activity). More icons mean less space... Have you seen ~30-40 buddies on a jabber server? Wow it's crowded as is, let's hope gadget and smart filters work well. i.e see who you want by default and be able to easily find those gadget decides to hide from you... Actually I can almost see this being a case for replacing the neighbourhood with just custom smart groups UI; you start with some reasonable default gadget filter; then create new groups for your different needs (perhaps a maths class group, a friends group, a pen-pals group, an artists group etc). Maybe the neighbourhood view ends up pretty much just showing icons for subgroups. An interesting design challenge, especially trying to keep the zoom metaphor consistant... --Gary - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmHIr0ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqSr6QCfVIKVafX44TFETpmNao8mGevr ldUAoJ+q09kT87G/PzJDdT2ND3HzE0Fl =yxQR -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:10 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@laptop.org wrote: IEEE chose to make wi-fi networks look like 802.11 LANs, similar to ethernet. It might have been a bad idea in retrospect, but now we have to live with it. AFAIK, the bulk of the problem with multicasts over 802.11s (and not all wi-fi networks) is that those must be propagated at the slowest possible link speed in order to reach all nodes. This is irrelevant, really. Protocols are designed with certain assumptions. Those assumptions (mostly having to do with the behavior and cost of broadcasts) were true when the protocols were designed, and are no longer true today. This is the way of all software, it's not unique to 802.11s in some way. Like Martin, you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. Ok, but how would the laptops advertise their SRV records without multicast DNS? Wait, are you perhaps suggesting to use DDNS to publish those services on a nameserver running on the XS? That is how DNS-SD works, yes. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@laptop.org wrote: Morgan Collett wrote: Also don't blame avahi for the fact that we send out updates every time you alt-tab between shared activities, so that your icon can jump to the appropriate snowflake on everyone else's Neighborhood Views... as well as sending who joined and left... Mature GUIs have a common pattern to avoid too much graphical flickering on possibly rapid state transitions, such as setting a busy pointer or disabling buttons while some operation is in progress. I don't know if it has a name, but the algorithm is exactly the same for de-bouncing mechanical keys: you propagate the event only after the state has settled for a certain amount of time. This would take away a certain percentage of spurious updates, but the number basically remains proportional to the number of users so it doesn't scale much better. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Network_architecture#Direct_presence_interrogation describes an algorithm to ensure that the amount of traffic in the net is kept proportional to the number of users. (The algorithm you describe is actually proportional to the number of users squared or cubed, because the size of the messages as well as the number of such messages increases with the # of users. If a mesh network is involved, the number of rebroadcasts necessary is another factor roughly proportional to the size of the network.) --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)
C. Scott Ananian wrote: This is irrelevant, really. Protocols are designed with certain assumptions. Those assumptions (mostly having to do with the behavior and cost of broadcasts) were true when the protocols were designed, and are no longer true today. This is the way of all software, it's not unique to 802.11s in some way. You make it look like there was an alternative to broadcasts in a peer to peer network, but I don't see any way out unless you want to have master browsers with elections in the best Windows workgroup tradition. Anyway, stuff that doesn't exist yet. Wait, are you perhaps suggesting to use DDNS to publish those services on a nameserver running on the XS? That is how DNS-SD works, yes. I do not understand the security side of it, and how old records get garbage collected unless you do a periodic refresh. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@laptop.org wrote: C. Scott Ananian wrote: This is irrelevant, really. Protocols are designed with certain assumptions. Those assumptions (mostly having to do with the behavior and cost of broadcasts) were true when the protocols were designed, and are no longer true today. This is the way of all software, it's not unique to 802.11s in some way. You make it look like there was an alternative to broadcasts in a peer to peer network, but I don't see any way out unless you want to have master browsers with elections in the best Windows workgroup tradition. I think you've left the topic. You also seem to be trying to solve five different problems at once, without acknowledging that the solutions might be different (even if the abstraction is the same). Anyway, stuff that doesn't exist yet. What? WfW was just a nightmare? Whew. Wait, are you perhaps suggesting to use DDNS to publish those services on a nameserver running on the XS? That is how DNS-SD works, yes. I do not understand the security side of it, and how old records get garbage collected unless you do a periodic refresh. Research, young butterfly. I'm not finding this thread very useful, sorry. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: AMD to stop working on Geodes (Carlos Nazareno)
On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 4:39 AM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote: On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 5:14 PM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:04 PM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.com wrote: AMD sees no Geode chip replacement in sight AMD on Monday said it has no replacement for the aging Geode low-power chips that are used in netbooks and set-top boxes. http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/article/274414/amd_sees_no_geode_chip_replacement_sight The cost of developing and supporting a processor family is staggering. AMD bought the Geode business from another company. Often, when a company buys a business unit, that unit withers on the vine. The new kids on the block have a difficult time establishing a strong place within the established pecking order, so in the competition for resources, the new group often comes up short. When there is an economic downturn, the new group is often the first to go. AMD barely has the resources to maintain a competitive stance in the part of the market that has traditionally been their core, especially now that the economy is bad. I'm sure that AMD would be very happy if they had enough money to go after the low power market, but they just don't. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel Somebody on Slashdot (yeah!) has a good write-up pointing to the fact that AMD isn't halting production. Its just not going to develop Geode further. http://hardware.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1105799cid=26623857 From the comment: begin quote AMD is NOT halting production of the Geode. They are not leaving the market (RTFM!). They have decided that it serves it's niche AS IS and will be kept AS IS. That's a very different statement. They're saying that it is a mature product (a rare thing in IT). Currently, the Geode is good enough for many applications and would be a step up for others. The embedded world tends away from the shiny object model of upgrades. If it worked last year, it works this year, and it'll work next year. Changes in the product are considered undesirable. AMD's statement doesn't even mean there won't be a die shrink or even a faster Geode in the future, just that they won't be updating it's architecture. It's not a bad decision either. There is a significant niche for the Geode between the Atom (too hot, too power hungry) and things like the Dragon Ball and mips (not enough power). Geode isn't in trouble until Intel comes out with an x86 that doesn't need a heatsink (or at least doesn't need a fan). This is also referred to, in another thread, but the Atom draws very little power. I already referred that you can get an Atom that has a 0.65W TDP, not 3.whatever like in the Geode LX. These are the Z series and they draw very little power, top of 2.4W for the 1866MHz model. The other low-end chip(also $20), the Z510, has a TDP of 2W - any one of these can run without an heatsink, mostly a small metal plate that allows the silicon core to dissipate heat, since it's a fliped-chip design. The Z500 is obviously very very good for embedded applications. The Z series use a lower power CMOS bus, instead of the power hungry GTL+, which when paired with Poulsbo it should make for a remarkable package. The next iteration will also have the graphics core and some other stuff embedded, for further savings. Best regards, Tiago Marques ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC upgrades
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Frank Ch. Eigler f...@redhat.com wrote: Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org writes: [...] It's also worth pointing out that the new low-power x86 processors, Atom being the poster child, are still stuck with power-hungry support chips - memory and display controllers. That might change soon, but for now it's still the case. [...] According to the ACPI battery gauges under Fedora 10, my Fujitsu U820 UMPC (Atom Z530, Poulsbo GMA500 MCH/graphics) takes around 6W *total* during light webby operations. This is probably correct: (copy paste from other thread)The Atom draws very little power. I already referred that there is an Atom that has a 0.65W TDP, not 3.whatever like in the Geode LX. These are the Z series and they draw very little power, top of 2.4W for the 1866MHz model. The other low-end chip(also $20), the Z510, has a TDP of 2W - any one of these can run without an heatsink, mostly a small metal plate that allows the silicon core to dissipate heat, since it's a fliped-chip design. The Z500 is obviously very very good for embedded applications. The Z series use a lower power CMOS bus, instead of the power hungry GTL+, which when paired with Poulsbo it should make for a remarkable package. The next iteration will also have the graphics core and some other stuff embedded, for further savings. - FChE ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 14:18, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:13 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@laptop.org wrote: Martin Langhoff wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: My suggestions: DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/). There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use existing standard solutions. Yep - I want existing standard stuff, but the devil we know seems to swamp the spectrum with 802.11s. When I read the Zeroconf book, I got the impression that the _standard_ was carefully designed to minimize needless broadcasts and scale well in real scenarios. I can't comment on the current Avahi _implementation_ though. This is true for wired networks; not necessarily true for mobile and/or wireless networks. Like Martin, you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. --scott Also don't blame avahi for the fact that we send out updates every time you alt-tab between shared activities, so that your icon can jump to the appropriate snowflake on everyone else's Neighborhood Views... as well as sending who joined and left... Regards Morgan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-) Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do). I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. Perhaps. The paper abstract mentions both, and seems to say that the solution is with DNS-SD+new software. There's another paper from the same authors that talks about saturation in mesh networks. I'd like to read that paper (anyone got access to IEEE pubs?) . In fact, I'd like to find that someone has implemented DNS-SD on 802.11s networks and had a raging success. I want it simple and safe :-) cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)
Martin Langhoff wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: My suggestions: DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/). There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use existing standard solutions. Yep - I want existing standard stuff, but the devil we know seems to swamp the spectrum with 802.11s. When I read the Zeroconf book, I got the impression that the _standard_ was carefully designed to minimize needless broadcasts and scale well in real scenarios. I can't comment on the current Avahi _implementation_ though. Even if the standard itself is flawed, designing a custom protocol to do the same thing is going to be a lot of work and probably end up facing the very same design issues that made the IEFT's standard inadequate for us in the first place. When it comes to non-trivial networking protocols, I don't trust any given individual to be able to do a good job without going through an *extensive* iterative design process with public reviews of interim drafts. What's hardest about networking is that it looks deceptively easy at first :-) -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-) Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do). I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. Perhaps. The paper abstract mentions both, and seems to say that the solution is with DNS-SD+new software. There's another paper from the same authors that talks about saturation in mesh networks. I'd like to read that paper (anyone got access to IEEE pubs?) . In fact, I'd like to find that someone has implemented DNS-SD on 802.11s networks and had a raging success. I want it simple and safe :-) 802.11s is not simple, nor safe. Please concentrate on plain 802.11 networks for now. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-) Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do). I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. Perhaps. The paper abstract mentions both, and seems to say that the solution is with DNS-SD+new software. There's another paper from the same authors that talks about saturation in mesh networks. I'd like to read that paper (anyone got access to IEEE pubs?) . In fact, I'd like to find that someone has implemented DNS-SD on 802.11s networks and had a raging success. I want it simple and safe :-) nobody else is running 802.11s yet, so you aren't going to find reports of people using _anything_ with a raging success on 802.11s David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC upgrades
On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited below, a long time ago. So why aren't we doing them? ...* *On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.comwrote: Nobody's saying anyone is stupid. It is perfectly natural for people to complain about things they don't understand. I also wish I could, from time to time, to ask this or that, to understand many things I don't comprehend, to know what I can do to help. This without getting into any kind of fight with the people involved with the project, who are the only ones who can answer those questions. As with any critical comment I may issue in this mailing list,* please take it as something constructive*, to help (if it does, in any way) and not to criticize the people who are hard at work. That, I think, is what Carlos was trying to do. I got my XO three weeks ago and there's a lot I was surprised to learn that some of the more important features are WIP or simply don't work, especially given the news that I've read, already detailing prototypes of a second version, when there's still a lot to do with the first one. Sugar is a fantastic window manager/desktop/user interface/learning tool/whatever. I don't understand how can *any* government give 6 year olds anything that's not Sugar - it is wonderful, it integrates very well with the XO and I would like to be able to use it more but it doesn't really blend well with the rest of the Linux software ecosystem. This, among other things, may be the cause that the G1G1 program wasn't successful this year. There are too many better options, for a regular user, currently available, and cheaper. Most people don't care for a reflective screen if they can't have Youtube. They already can have 5 hours of battery life(or more) in some netbooks, a lot more flash memory/HDD, better *color* screen. Even then some people claim the performance of netbooks isn't good enough - imagine what they would say about an XO. I'm surprised how much stuff still doesn't work in the XO. I can't, for as much as I think about it, how can you be shipping these things without space for swap memory. I can open a PDF and a browser without the XO being apparently crashed and this is the most basic stuff. I know why the system crashes but you can't expect a politician to understand why Intel's offering doesn't crash and yours does all the time, *it just makes it look like crap*, which it certainly isn't. Doing SWAP in the embedded flash is a bad ideia but there's an SD card slot and having the XO crashing all the time is a worst case scenario - it may be a compromise in Africa but not in the least developed country. There's no stylus support yet, there's no view source working(AFAIK) and the wireless range isn't as awsome as announced. My mother has an Acer One which, apparently, has a significantly better wireless signal, at least from small experiences, I haven't messed with it much, it's an initial impression - which for most people is the one that matters. Worse is the battery life, I can't get more than 3 hours out of my XO and all seems fine with the battery. If I was to heavily depend on the 24 hours touted(when not even 24 in suspend), I would be very disappointed, let alone 6 hours which I also don't get. Experimental results isn't something that the project should be shouting about all the time - that's just vaporware. Worse, it makes the OLPC Foundation loose credibility as a whole. No company can be constantly over promising and underdelivering, let alone a non-profit foundation. Currently, aside from the screen and mesh networking, you're loosing by big points in all the rest. The advantages the XO still has are things that don't matter for most potential buying governments, the ones who have the big bucks. I don't know where the foundation got the numbers in the first time, but 50 million laptops was far from anything that can be achieved. Especially without retail availability of a $170 laptop. IMHO, or the XO-1 has retail availability soon, that can(finally) bring that number to the desired target, or you eventually loose out to Intel (with dire consequences). After all, retail availability has been bringing production costs down for them. Either you make it unprofitable for them or they make it unfeasible for you to follow the vision. You can't expect most people to pay $399 for a laptop (spectacular for third world countries) of no (or limited) usefulness for a regular person. Not with faster netbooks available at $199 (have you seen an acer one booting???) - not everyone is so good at their heart to give one away, when they can save $199 for themselves. Not everyone knows that your battery lasts four times more, that it costs only $25 to replace, that all parts are cheap, if they ever break! That doesn't matter for most people, even though they should, and that leaves the XO
some 8.2.1 questions
Hi all, We at OLE Nepal are pretty soon gonna have to finalize the build for our deployment, and since 8.2.1 seems to have a number of nice fixes, so we're gonna base it on that one. It doesn't seem however that we're able to wait for the 8.2.1 final release. So in this light I have a couple of questions I hope you can answer. I've followed all possible channels of communication meticulously, and some of my questions might seem a bit whiny of redundant -it seems like the staging builds are in good shape-, but since this build will go on a couple of thousand XO's, I'd rather be whiny now than sorry later. mostly the first two I'd like answers to: - which major bugs relevant to Nepal, if any, that are not yet addressed by the staging builds are likely to be fixed by 8.2.1 in general. And if any: are they expected to be fixed in the next couple of days? - is there anything seriously broken -any regression- atm compared to 8.2 - Is there a date set for the final build, and if so when? - And if so, what are the chances of actually making that deadline :oP Thanks! /Ties ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
First, I want to praise whoever put together the Sugar packages for Fedora 10. After struggling with Xubuntu and with sugar-jhbuild on openSUSE I finally have a sugar test environment where everything seems to work! It was well worth wiping out my openSUSE install and starting over with a new distribution. I'll probably do the same to my Xubuntu box eventually. Second, now that I have this I want to perfect collaboration on my two Activities, Read Etexts and View Slides. Unfortunately, I am convinced that collaboration in View Slides that involves sending large Zip archives over the network is not and never will be practical. What I'm thinking about now is making the person sharing a slide show see only the image being viewed on the XO that has the full presentation. The master XO would page through the slides and those sharing would follow along. I'm not sure that's practical, either. While I'm figuring this out, what I'd really like to do is release a version of View Slides that has no collaboration at all. This would mean hiding the control on the Activity toolbar that supports collaboration. When I figure out something intelligent to do with collaboration I'll restore it. Is this possible, and how would I go about doing it? Thanks, James Simmons ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: looked for, but did not find, control knobs for mesh
On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 02:09:31AM -0500, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: To me, two kids under a tree is a very important scenario. Although mesh fails on current Joyrides, I'm experimenting with manual intervention (e.g., ifconfig) to get it going anyway. Said manual intervention could be added as a button to Sugar, I guess. Aside from ifconfig up/down, what other control knobs exist for starting/stopping radio communication using a 169.254.x.x address ? None. However, don't forget to investigate iwpriv and iwlist. I've just done some of my early tests again on build 767 using three XOs. The minimum to get a manual mesh to establish is, on each XO: 0. stop NetworkManager, disable it, and reboot, service NetworkManager stop chkconfig NetworkManager off reboot 1. configure the radio (via the eth prefix), iwconfig eth0 mode ad-hoc essid qu...@laptop.org channel 6 2. configure the network interface (via the msh prefix), ifconfig msh0 12.0.0.12 3. emit packets, ping 12.0.0.11 The result is that the forwarding table will begin to contain MAC addresses. This is one way to test if the mesh is operational, before moving units apart. iwpriv eth0 fwt_list It isn't necessary to configure eth0 network interface with ifconfig if you have no other need to do so. -- James Cameronmailto:qu...@us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)
Morgan Collett wrote: Also don't blame avahi for the fact that we send out updates every time you alt-tab between shared activities, so that your icon can jump to the appropriate snowflake on everyone else's Neighborhood Views... as well as sending who joined and left... Mature GUIs have a common pattern to avoid too much graphical flickering on possibly rapid state transitions, such as setting a busy pointer or disabling buttons while some operation is in progress. I don't know if it has a name, but the algorithm is exactly the same for de-bouncing mechanical keys: you propagate the event only after the state has settled for a certain amount of time. This would take away a certain percentage of spurious updates, but the number basically remains proportional to the number of users so it doesn't scale much better. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC upgrades
2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited below, a long time ago. So why aren't we doing them? ...* *On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.comwrote: Nobody's saying anyone is stupid. It is perfectly natural for people to complain about things they don't understand. I also wish I could, from time to time, to ask this or that, to understand many things I don't comprehend, to know what I can do to help. This without getting into any kind of fight with the people involved with the project, who are the only ones who can answer those questions. As with any critical comment I may issue in this mailing list,* please take it as something constructive*, to help (if it does, in any way) and not to criticize the people who are hard at work. That, I think, is what Carlos was trying to do. I got my XO three weeks ago and there's a lot I was surprised to learn that some of the more important features are WIP or simply don't work, especially given the news that I've read, already detailing prototypes of a second version, when there's still a lot to do with the first one. Hey Tiago, I've been following the project for about 2 years now and the software problems you cite (OOM crashing, flaky wireless, battery life, sluggish UI) are pretty much the same ones that existed back when I got involved! The lack of momentum on the software front has been pretty amazing given how much the project started with. That said, things seem to be picking up speed as more control over the software is handed to the community. I finally feel like there's maybe a chance to see some of this stuff get resolved. Here's hoping SL's XOOS or SoaS, or else some deployment's distribution will take better advantage of the excellent hardware that is the XO-1. I'd really like to see someone try to build a tiny LFS based XO specific distro which runs Sugar, and boots in 30sec :) I've got my personal XO booting in around 45sec just by hacking around in the initscripts, and I'm sure a lot better could be done. Best, -Wade ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
There might be something in the Sugar Almanac, see http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources for a link. Alternately, an example of how to disable sharing is here: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/math/repos/mainline/blobs/master/mathactivity.py#line75 Note to Sugar toolkit guys, I'd love to have a formal API to indicate collaboration not supported. Best, Wade On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:10 PM, James Simmons jim.simm...@walgreens.comwrote: First, I want to praise whoever put together the Sugar packages for Fedora 10. After struggling with Xubuntu and with sugar-jhbuild on openSUSE I finally have a sugar test environment where everything seems to work! It was well worth wiping out my openSUSE install and starting over with a new distribution. I'll probably do the same to my Xubuntu box eventually. Second, now that I have this I want to perfect collaboration on my two Activities, Read Etexts and View Slides. Unfortunately, I am convinced that collaboration in View Slides that involves sending large Zip archives over the network is not and never will be practical. What I'm thinking about now is making the person sharing a slide show see only the image being viewed on the XO that has the full presentation. The master XO would page through the slides and those sharing would follow along. I'm not sure that's practical, either. While I'm figuring this out, what I'd really like to do is release a version of View Slides that has no collaboration at all. This would mean hiding the control on the Activity toolbar that supports collaboration. When I figure out something intelligent to do with collaboration I'll restore it. Is this possible, and how would I go about doing it? Thanks, James Simmons ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)
C. Scott Ananian wrote: When I read the Zeroconf book, I got the impression that the _standard_ was carefully designed to minimize needless broadcasts and scale well in real scenarios. I can't comment on the current Avahi _implementation_ though. This is true for wired networks; not necessarily true for mobile and/or wireless networks. IEEE chose to make wi-fi networks look like 802.11 LANs, similar to ethernet. It might have been a bad idea in retrospect, but now we have to live with it. AFAIK, the bulk of the problem with multicasts over 802.11s (and not all wi-fi networks) is that those must be propagated at the slowest possible link speed in order to reach all nodes. Like Martin, you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. Ok, but how would the laptops advertise their SRV records without multicast DNS? Wait, are you perhaps suggesting to use DDNS to publish those services on a nameserver running on the XS? -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://www.codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://www.sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
I'm guessing someone has already suggested this on some list or other, but in my experience kids like to watch over each other's shoulder, and a default collaboration of everyone watches, one person types vnc would in my opinion be the 80 of a collaboration 80-20 rule. I think this ought to be implemented in the sugar infrastructure, and then let activities that have an obvious extended collaboration (such as two person games or shared authorship documents) do something more. 2009/2/2 Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com There might be something in the Sugar Almanac, see http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources for a link. Alternately, an example of how to disable sharing is here: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/math/repos/mainline/blobs/master/mathactivity.py#line75 Note to Sugar toolkit guys, I'd love to have a formal API to indicate collaboration not supported. Best, Wade On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:10 PM, James Simmons jim.simm...@walgreens.comwrote: First, I want to praise whoever put together the Sugar packages for Fedora 10. After struggling with Xubuntu and with sugar-jhbuild on openSUSE I finally have a sugar test environment where everything seems to work! It was well worth wiping out my openSUSE install and starting over with a new distribution. I'll probably do the same to my Xubuntu box eventually. Second, now that I have this I want to perfect collaboration on my two Activities, Read Etexts and View Slides. Unfortunately, I am convinced that collaboration in View Slides that involves sending large Zip archives over the network is not and never will be practical. What I'm thinking about now is making the person sharing a slide show see only the image being viewed on the XO that has the full presentation. The master XO would page through the slides and those sharing would follow along. I'm not sure that's practical, either. While I'm figuring this out, what I'd really like to do is release a version of View Slides that has no collaboration at all. This would mean hiding the control on the Activity toolbar that supports collaboration. When I figure out something intelligent to do with collaboration I'll restore it. Is this possible, and how would I go about doing it? Thanks, James Simmons ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it. -- Barack Obama ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: some 8.2.1 questions
2009/2/2 Ties Stuij cjst...@gmail.com: mostly the first two I'd like answers to: - which major bugs relevant to Nepal, if any, that are not yet addressed by the staging builds are likely to be fixed by 8.2.1 in general. And if any: are they expected to be fixed in the next couple of days? http://dev.laptop.org/report/38 sums it up really... We have some coding and testing left to do for key delegation. Someone needs to test synaptics touchpad with new OFW. Release notes need finishing off. Apart from that, it is done. - is there anything seriously broken -any regression- atm compared to 8.2 Not that we know of. - Is there a date set for the final build, and if so when? No date is set but I am working to get it ready ASAP, hopefully finished this week if I get my way, as we need it for paraguay with an immediate timeframe. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
keyboard handling (was Re: OLPC where to go development advice.)
Summary: I updated http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Enabling_XO_features_on_other_distributions http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Keyboard_shortcuts and several other pages, but mysteries remain. p...@laptop.org usefully responded: I have zero clue where to find the keymapping file or configuration utility. i just booted ubuntu to see how they do it -- turns out it's easy. they use a program called xbindkeys to bind all of the special XO keys. the configuration for that is in /home/olpc/.xbindkeysrc -- you'll see an entry in there that invokes /usr/bin/rotate_screen.py. I added this to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Enabling_XO_features_on_other_distributions Folks, this is the page where distros note their tweaks for the benefit of humanity. I think Sugar doesn't use that technique. The same page points to http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=sugar;a=blob;f=src/jarabe/view/keyhandler.py;hb=HEAD , but what hooks this code to keyboard events? BTW, keyhandler.py also lists some nifty undocumented equivalents for some of the XO's buttons and keys: # the following are intended for emulator users 'altshiftf' : 'frame', 'altshiftq' : 'quit_emulator', 'altshifto' : 'open_search', 'altshiftr' : 'rotate', 'altshifts' : 'say_text' and indeed, altshiftf/o/r work on my XO in 8.2.0. I couldn't find any documentation for these, so I added them to the table in http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Keyboard_shortcuts and mentioned them in http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Emulating_the_XO/Help_and_tips#How_to Tomeu wrote It's sugar who listens for the keycode 0xEB and asks xrandr to rotate the screen. According to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ec_specification#KeyCodes_for_Buttons , the keycode for rotate are make=0x69, break=0xE9. How do these become 0xEB? I tried all the xkb* command-line programs to find the keymap, it seems that xmodmap -pk shows it. But it doesn't show anything relevant to the special buttons around the screen, I guess because they aren't part of the keyboard itself. The olpc keyboard mappings in /usr/share/X11/xkb/*/olpc do map several XO keys to keysyms, e.g. key I147 { [ XF86TaskPane ] }; // frame key (the top-right key) but I think Sugar doesn't use the keysym, it looks directly for the key or its keystroke equivalent. It seems the olpc X11 keyboard mappings are to make the XO-1's keys mean something when running other desktop environments than Sugar. Keyboard handling is spread across lots of subsystems and pages, I'll improve them with any information I receive. -- =S ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Service announcement scheme - (Re: A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 5:13 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@laptop.org wrote: Martin Langhoff wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: My suggestions: DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/). There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use existing standard solutions. Yep - I want existing standard stuff, but the devil we know seems to swamp the spectrum with 802.11s. When I read the Zeroconf book, I got the impression that the _standard_ was carefully designed to minimize needless broadcasts and scale well in real scenarios. I can't comment on the current Avahi _implementation_ though. This is true for wired networks; not necessarily true for mobile and/or wireless networks. Like Martin, you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
I think this project often makes the perfect into the enemy of the good. Consequently we end up having less collaboration than, e.g., any system in the last 10 years that could install vnc server, while claiming that collaboration is a principal focus of the project. On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: I think some simplistic automatic collaboration being built into Sugar, has been discussed, possibly even prototyped. Just a matter of engineering motivation/time perhaps. -Wade On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche c...@msbit.comwrote: I'm guessing someone has already suggested this on some list or other, but in my experience kids like to watch over each other's shoulder, and a default collaboration of everyone watches, one person types vnc would in my opinion be the 80 of a collaboration 80-20 rule. I think this ought to be implemented in the sugar infrastructure, and then let activities that have an obvious extended collaboration (such as two person games or shared authorship documents) do something more. 2009/2/2 Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com There might be something in the Sugar Almanac, see http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources for a link. Alternately, an example of how to disable sharing is here: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/math/repos/mainline/blobs/master/mathactivity.py#line75 Note to Sugar toolkit guys, I'd love to have a formal API to indicate collaboration not supported. Best, Wade On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:10 PM, James Simmons jim.simm...@walgreens.com wrote: First, I want to praise whoever put together the Sugar packages for Fedora 10. After struggling with Xubuntu and with sugar-jhbuild on openSUSE I finally have a sugar test environment where everything seems to work! It was well worth wiping out my openSUSE install and starting over with a new distribution. I'll probably do the same to my Xubuntu box eventually. Second, now that I have this I want to perfect collaboration on my two Activities, Read Etexts and View Slides. Unfortunately, I am convinced that collaboration in View Slides that involves sending large Zip archives over the network is not and never will be practical. What I'm thinking about now is making the person sharing a slide show see only the image being viewed on the XO that has the full presentation. The master XO would page through the slides and those sharing would follow along. I'm not sure that's practical, either. While I'm figuring this out, what I'd really like to do is release a version of View Slides that has no collaboration at all. This would mean hiding the control on the Activity toolbar that supports collaboration. When I figure out something intelligent to do with collaboration I'll restore it. Is this possible, and how would I go about doing it? Thanks, James Simmons ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it. -- Barack Obama -- Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it. -- Barack Obama ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
I think that the addition of a new property in the activity.info file would be logical here. Make it an integer indicating the maximum number of supported participants. Unshared activities would report '1', activities like video chat (with technical limitations) or chess (with obvious player limits) might specify 2, and others could specify another cap based on resource requirements and/or a constant to indicate an unbounded number. That number could be used both to show/hide the sharing controls (in the activity or elsewhere) for that activity, and also help keep the participants list at a manageable size for the given activity. Limitations are natural, and activity specific; it's not reasonable to expect all collaborative activities to scale in the same way. Scott (CC'd) has already come up with some really nice proposals for adding VNC as an alternate colaboration mechanism for all activities. In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed in that manner. Scott, could you point to any materials you've already written up on the matter? Would you have time and/or desire to assist others who are interested in taking on such a feature? I'd love to see this happen, myself, and have given some preliminary thought to the UI already. - Eben 2009/2/2 Carol Farlow Lerche c...@msbit.com: I'm guessing someone has already suggested this on some list or other, but in my experience kids like to watch over each other's shoulder, and a default collaboration of everyone watches, one person types vnc would in my opinion be the 80 of a collaboration 80-20 rule. I think this ought to be implemented in the sugar infrastructure, and then let activities that have an obvious extended collaboration (such as two person games or shared authorship documents) do something more. 2009/2/2 Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com There might be something in the Sugar Almanac, see http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources for a link. Alternately, an example of how to disable sharing is here: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/math/repos/mainline/blobs/master/mathactivity.py#line75 Note to Sugar toolkit guys, I'd love to have a formal API to indicate collaboration not supported. Best, Wade On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:10 PM, James Simmons jim.simm...@walgreens.com wrote: First, I want to praise whoever put together the Sugar packages for Fedora 10. After struggling with Xubuntu and with sugar-jhbuild on openSUSE I finally have a sugar test environment where everything seems to work! It was well worth wiping out my openSUSE install and starting over with a new distribution. I'll probably do the same to my Xubuntu box eventually. Second, now that I have this I want to perfect collaboration on my two Activities, Read Etexts and View Slides. Unfortunately, I am convinced that collaboration in View Slides that involves sending large Zip archives over the network is not and never will be practical. What I'm thinking about now is making the person sharing a slide show see only the image being viewed on the XO that has the full presentation. The master XO would page through the slides and those sharing would follow along. I'm not sure that's practical, either. While I'm figuring this out, what I'd really like to do is release a version of View Slides that has no collaboration at all. This would mean hiding the control on the Activity toolbar that supports collaboration. When I figure out something intelligent to do with collaboration I'll restore it. Is this possible, and how would I go about doing it? Thanks, James Simmons ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it. -- Barack Obama ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC upgrades
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited below, a long time ago. So why aren't we doing them? ...* *On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.comwrote: Nobody's saying anyone is stupid. It is perfectly natural for people to complain about things they don't understand. I also wish I could, from time to time, to ask this or that, to understand many things I don't comprehend, to know what I can do to help. This without getting into any kind of fight with the people involved with the project, who are the only ones who can answer those questions. As with any critical comment I may issue in this mailing list,* please take it as something constructive*, to help (if it does, in any way) and not to criticize the people who are hard at work. That, I think, is what Carlos was trying to do. I got my XO three weeks ago and there's a lot I was surprised to learn that some of the more important features are WIP or simply don't work, especially given the news that I've read, already detailing prototypes of a second version, when there's still a lot to do with the first one. Hey Tiago, I've been following the project for about 2 years now and the software problems you cite (OOM crashing, flaky wireless, battery life, sluggish UI) are pretty much the same ones that existed back when I got involved! The lack of momentum on the software front has been pretty amazing given how much the project started with. That said, things seem to be picking up speed as more control over the software is handed to the community. I finally feel like there's maybe a chance to see some of this stuff get resolved. Here's hoping SL's XOOS or SoaS, or else some deployment's distribution will take better advantage of the excellent hardware that is the XO-1. I'd really like to see someone try to build a tiny LFS based XO specific distro which runs Sugar, and boots in 30sec :) I've got my personal XO booting in around 45sec just by hacking around in the initscripts, and I'm sure a lot better could be done. Hi Wade, I use Gentoo for professional and personal use in almost all of my machines and will probably install Gentoo in some binary way to dual boot the XO with Sugar(it fits the XO too well, in some ways, to simply delete it). This will be the most optimized code I can have the compiler generate, which should yield some nice improvements, compiled with the smallest feature set needed. I have a machine running KDE 3.5 in 80MB with two or three KDE apps loaded, but that is still overkill for the XO. XFCE/Fluxbox would be something to experiment with. I have a server here in college to do a package server, with which other users may use, but I still need some free time to finish the basic gentoo based distro, which will hardly come with an installer, other than a stage package compiled for the Geode. I would like to see python less resource bound but I unfortunately have neither the time nor the skill to go hacking it. Best regards, Tiago Marques Best, -Wade ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
On Monday 02 February 2009 21:30:46 Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: I'm guessing someone has already suggested this on some list or other, but in my experience kids like to watch over each other's shoulder, and a default collaboration of everyone watches, one person types vnc would in my opinion be the 80 of a collaboration 80-20 rule. I think this ought to be implemented in the sugar infrastructure, and then let activities that have an obvious extended collaboration (such as two person games or shared authorship documents) do something more. Please take a look at Chris Ball's recent work on MPX over VNC: http://blog.printf.net/articles/2009/01/26/multi-pointer-remote-desktop 2009/2/2 Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com There might be something in the Sugar Almanac, see http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources for a link. Alternately, an example of how to disable sharing is here: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/math/repos/mainline/blobs/master/mathac tivity.py#line75 Note to Sugar toolkit guys, I'd love to have a formal API to indicate collaboration not supported. Best, Wade On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:10 PM, James Simmons jim.simm...@walgreens.comwrote: First, I want to praise whoever put together the Sugar packages for Fedora 10. After struggling with Xubuntu and with sugar-jhbuild on openSUSE I finally have a sugar test environment where everything seems to work! It was well worth wiping out my openSUSE install and starting over with a new distribution. I'll probably do the same to my Xubuntu box eventually. Second, now that I have this I want to perfect collaboration on my two Activities, Read Etexts and View Slides. Unfortunately, I am convinced that collaboration in View Slides that involves sending large Zip archives over the network is not and never will be practical. What I'm thinking about now is making the person sharing a slide show see only the image being viewed on the XO that has the full presentation. The master XO would page through the slides and those sharing would follow along. I'm not sure that's practical, either. While I'm figuring this out, what I'd really like to do is release a version of View Slides that has no collaboration at all. This would mean hiding the control on the Activity toolbar that supports collaboration. When I figure out something intelligent to do with collaboration I'll restore it. Is this possible, and how would I go about doing it? Thanks, James Simmons ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: keyboard handling (was Re: OLPC where to go development advice.)
s wrote: Summary: I updated http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Enabling_XO_features_on_other_distributions http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Keyboard_shortcuts and several other pages, but mysteries remain. p...@laptop.org usefully responded: I have zero clue where to find the keymapping file or configuration utility. i just booted ubuntu to see how they do it -- turns out it's easy. they use a program called xbindkeys to bind all of the special XO keys. the configuration for that is in /home/olpc/.xbindkeysrc -- you'll see an entry in there that invokes /usr/bin/rotate_screen.py. I added this to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Enabling_XO_features_on_other_distributions Folks, this is the page where distros note their tweaks for the benefit of humanity. I think Sugar doesn't use that technique. ... but i've been wondering if perhaps it should. given that sugar is now multi-platform, does it make sense for sugar itself to be managing the special XO keyboard keys? seems like pulling that support out would let it be reused by non-sugar distros more readily. what happens when you press F9 through F12 when running SoaS? (i think those are the volume and brightness keys on the XO.) paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: My suggestions: DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/). There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use existing standard solutions. Yep - I want existing standard stuff, but the devil we know seems to swamp the spectrum with 802.11s. Googling leads to a paper that could be useful. I don't have access - but they seem to claim that they can get DNS-SD to _not_ mess the mesh up with some new technique requiring new and adventurous patches affecting the mesh routing nodes: http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-) Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do). I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
I think some simplistic automatic collaboration being built into Sugar, has been discussed, possibly even prototyped. Just a matter of engineering motivation/time perhaps. -Wade On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Carol Farlow Lerche c...@msbit.com wrote: I'm guessing someone has already suggested this on some list or other, but in my experience kids like to watch over each other's shoulder, and a default collaboration of everyone watches, one person types vnc would in my opinion be the 80 of a collaboration 80-20 rule. I think this ought to be implemented in the sugar infrastructure, and then let activities that have an obvious extended collaboration (such as two person games or shared authorship documents) do something more. 2009/2/2 Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com There might be something in the Sugar Almanac, see http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources for a link. Alternately, an example of how to disable sharing is here: http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/math/repos/mainline/blobs/master/mathactivity.py#line75 Note to Sugar toolkit guys, I'd love to have a formal API to indicate collaboration not supported. Best, Wade On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:10 PM, James Simmons jim.simm...@walgreens.comwrote: First, I want to praise whoever put together the Sugar packages for Fedora 10. After struggling with Xubuntu and with sugar-jhbuild on openSUSE I finally have a sugar test environment where everything seems to work! It was well worth wiping out my openSUSE install and starting over with a new distribution. I'll probably do the same to my Xubuntu box eventually. Second, now that I have this I want to perfect collaboration on my two Activities, Read Etexts and View Slides. Unfortunately, I am convinced that collaboration in View Slides that involves sending large Zip archives over the network is not and never will be practical. What I'm thinking about now is making the person sharing a slide show see only the image being viewed on the XO that has the full presentation. The master XO would page through the slides and those sharing would follow along. I'm not sure that's practical, either. While I'm figuring this out, what I'd really like to do is release a version of View Slides that has no collaboration at all. This would mean hiding the control on the Activity toolbar that supports collaboration. When I figure out something intelligent to do with collaboration I'll restore it. Is this possible, and how would I go about doing it? Thanks, James Simmons ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it. -- Barack Obama ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC upgrades
Since you're looking at making a gentoo-based sugar distro, you might find http://gitorious.org/projects/sugar-gentoo useful :) On 2/3/09, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited below, a long time ago. So why aren't we doing them? ...* *On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.comwrote: Nobody's saying anyone is stupid. It is perfectly natural for people to complain about things they don't understand. I also wish I could, from time to time, to ask this or that, to understand many things I don't comprehend, to know what I can do to help. This without getting into any kind of fight with the people involved with the project, who are the only ones who can answer those questions. As with any critical comment I may issue in this mailing list,* please take it as something constructive*, to help (if it does, in any way) and not to criticize the people who are hard at work. That, I think, is what Carlos was trying to do. I got my XO three weeks ago and there's a lot I was surprised to learn that some of the more important features are WIP or simply don't work, especially given the news that I've read, already detailing prototypes of a second version, when there's still a lot to do with the first one. Hey Tiago, I've been following the project for about 2 years now and the software problems you cite (OOM crashing, flaky wireless, battery life, sluggish UI) are pretty much the same ones that existed back when I got involved! The lack of momentum on the software front has been pretty amazing given how much the project started with. That said, things seem to be picking up speed as more control over the software is handed to the community. I finally feel like there's maybe a chance to see some of this stuff get resolved. Here's hoping SL's XOOS or SoaS, or else some deployment's distribution will take better advantage of the excellent hardware that is the XO-1. I'd really like to see someone try to build a tiny LFS based XO specific distro which runs Sugar, and boots in 30sec :) I've got my personal XO booting in around 45sec just by hacking around in the initscripts, and I'm sure a lot better could be done. Hi Wade, I use Gentoo for professional and personal use in almost all of my machines and will probably install Gentoo in some binary way to dual boot the XO with Sugar(it fits the XO too well, in some ways, to simply delete it). This will be the most optimized code I can have the compiler generate, which should yield some nice improvements, compiled with the smallest feature set needed. I have a machine running KDE 3.5 in 80MB with two or three KDE apps loaded, but that is still overkill for the XO. XFCE/Fluxbox would be something to experiment with. I have a server here in college to do a package server, with which other users may use, but I still need some free time to finish the basic gentoo based distro, which will hardly come with an installer, other than a stage package compiled for the Geode. I would like to see python less resource bound but I unfortunately have neither the time nor the skill to go hacking it. Best regards, Tiago Marques Best, -Wade -- Sent from my mobile device ~Nirbheek Chauhan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: keyboard handling (was Re: OLPC where to go development advice.)
It seems that the implementations for volume and brightness keys are handled separately from the remainder of the keyboard in most laptops. I have recently been installing Linux in various older laptops, some with gnome, some with xfce, and have found the laptop special keys scripts in /etc/acpi. Is this a debian/ubuntu-ism? On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:47 PM, p...@laptop.org wrote: s wrote: Summary: I updated http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Enabling_XO_features_on_other_distributions http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Keyboard_shortcuts and several other pages, but mysteries remain. p...@laptop.org usefully responded: I have zero clue where to find the keymapping file or configuration utility. i just booted ubuntu to see how they do it -- turns out it's easy. they use a program called xbindkeys to bind all of the special XO keys. the configuration for that is in /home/olpc/.xbindkeysrc -- you'll see an entry in there that invokes /usr/bin/rotate_screen.py. I added this to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Enabling_XO_features_on_other_distributions Folks, this is the page where distros note their tweaks for the benefit of humanity. I think Sugar doesn't use that technique. ... but i've been wondering if perhaps it should. given that sugar is now multi-platform, does it make sense for sugar itself to be managing the special XO keyboard keys? seems like pulling that support out would let it be reused by non-sugar distros more readily. what happens when you press F9 through F12 when running SoaS? (i think those are the volume and brightness keys on the XO.) paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it. -- Barack Obama ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: keyboard handling (was Re: OLPC where to go development advice.)
at the OS level the brightness and volume keys are just the standard F9-F12 keys if you look at the 'keyboard shortcuts' page on the wiki they are even documented that way (or at least I think they were at one point) it's Sugar that decides to monkey with the brightness and volume when those keys are pressed. the other distros setup the mapping using the specific tools for that desktop. but they all boil down to setting up something to look for those keys and then running the appropriate script. David Lang On Mon, 2 Feb 2009, Carol Farlow Lerche wrote: It seems that the implementations for volume and brightness keys are handled separately from the remainder of the keyboard in most laptops. I have recently been installing Linux in various older laptops, some with gnome, some with xfce, and have found the laptop special keys scripts in /etc/acpi. Is this a debian/ubuntu-ism? On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:47 PM, p...@laptop.org wrote: s wrote: Summary: I updated http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Enabling_XO_features_on_other_distributions http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Keyboard_shortcuts and several other pages, but mysteries remain. p...@laptop.org usefully responded: I have zero clue where to find the keymapping file or configuration utility. i just booted ubuntu to see how they do it -- turns out it's easy. they use a program called xbindkeys to bind all of the special XO keys. the configuration for that is in /home/olpc/.xbindkeysrc -- you'll see an entry in there that invokes /usr/bin/rotate_screen.py. I added this to http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Enabling_XO_features_on_other_distributions Folks, this is the page where distros note their tweaks for the benefit of humanity. I think Sugar doesn't use that technique. ... but i've been wondering if perhaps it should. given that sugar is now multi-platform, does it make sense for sugar itself to be managing the special XO keyboard keys? seems like pulling that support out would let it be reused by non-sugar distros more readily. what happens when you press F9 through F12 when running SoaS? (i think those are the volume and brightness keys on the XO.) paul =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC upgrades
Thanks, much appreciated :) Best regards On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan nirbheek.chau...@gmail.com wrote: Since you're looking at making a gentoo-based sugar distro, you might find http://gitorious.org/projects/sugar-gentoo useful :) On 2/3/09, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited below, a long time ago. So why aren't we doing them? ...* *On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.comwrote: Nobody's saying anyone is stupid. It is perfectly natural for people to complain about things they don't understand. I also wish I could, from time to time, to ask this or that, to understand many things I don't comprehend, to know what I can do to help. This without getting into any kind of fight with the people involved with the project, who are the only ones who can answer those questions. As with any critical comment I may issue in this mailing list,* please take it as something constructive*, to help (if it does, in any way) and not to criticize the people who are hard at work. That, I think, is what Carlos was trying to do. I got my XO three weeks ago and there's a lot I was surprised to learn that some of the more important features are WIP or simply don't work, especially given the news that I've read, already detailing prototypes of a second version, when there's still a lot to do with the first one. Hey Tiago, I've been following the project for about 2 years now and the software problems you cite (OOM crashing, flaky wireless, battery life, sluggish UI) are pretty much the same ones that existed back when I got involved! The lack of momentum on the software front has been pretty amazing given how much the project started with. That said, things seem to be picking up speed as more control over the software is handed to the community. I finally feel like there's maybe a chance to see some of this stuff get resolved. Here's hoping SL's XOOS or SoaS, or else some deployment's distribution will take better advantage of the excellent hardware that is the XO-1. I'd really like to see someone try to build a tiny LFS based XO specific distro which runs Sugar, and boots in 30sec :) I've got my personal XO booting in around 45sec just by hacking around in the initscripts, and I'm sure a lot better could be done. Hi Wade, I use Gentoo for professional and personal use in almost all of my machines and will probably install Gentoo in some binary way to dual boot the XO with Sugar(it fits the XO too well, in some ways, to simply delete it). This will be the most optimized code I can have the compiler generate, which should yield some nice improvements, compiled with the smallest feature set needed. I have a machine running KDE 3.5 in 80MB with two or three KDE apps loaded, but that is still overkill for the XO. XFCE/Fluxbox would be something to experiment with. I have a server here in college to do a package server, with which other users may use, but I still need some free time to finish the basic gentoo based distro, which will hardly come with an installer, other than a stage package compiled for the Geode. I would like to see python less resource bound but I unfortunately have neither the time nor the skill to go hacking it. Best regards, Tiago Marques Best, -Wade -- Sent from my mobile device ~Nirbheek Chauhan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eben Eliason wrote: I think that the addition of a new property in the activity.info file would be logical here. Make it an integer indicating the maximum number of supported participants. OK, but as an Activity author I might like to specify that cap at runtime, depending on many things, such as the size of the document. I might even want to let the initiator choose the number of participants. I think we should also have a runtime API, so that the cap that can be varied at any time. In fact, it might be nice to have a a generic solution for defining config variables that can be controlled either statically or at runtime. We have mentioned a wide variety of such variables, including things like whether screen rotation is supported. Scott (CC'd) has already come up with some really nice proposals for adding VNC as an alternate colaboration mechanism for all activities. In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed in that manner. I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC sharing, regardless of max_participants. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmHkNIACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQBlQCdF4AhUy+NWkwYqVR/qMyl/m2H UpAAniXtXxWRQuM8o8iqtiyJ0uB4o05Z =BI5d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eben Eliason wrote: I think that the addition of a new property in the activity.info file would be logical here. Make it an integer indicating the maximum number of supported participants. OK, but as an Activity author I might like to specify that cap at runtime, depending on many things, such as the size of the document. I might even want to let the initiator choose the number of participants. I think we should also have a runtime API, so that the cap that can be varied at any time. That's a good observation. You're right; I was seeing hard limits, but soft limits could certainly be implemented via some API that Sugar could call into to retrieve the info. The static declaration could be used as the fallback. In fact, it might be nice to have a a generic solution for defining config variables that can be controlled either statically or at runtime. We have mentioned a wide variety of such variables, including things like whether screen rotation is supported. Right. Scott (CC'd) has already come up with some really nice proposals for adding VNC as an alternate colaboration mechanism for all activities. In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed in that manner. I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC sharing, regardless of max_participants. Of course not. I didn't mean to imply such a limitation; only that the VNC solution would be the /only/ option after some participants limit was reached. That is, you could either Join or Watch any shared activity, but the Join option would disappear once full...Watch would remain. It's possible we'd have an upper bound on the number of people who could watch as well, but I don't think that's an activity-specific parameter. - Eben - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmHkNIACgkQUJT6e6HFtqQBlQCdF4AhUy+NWkwYqVR/qMyl/m2H UpAAniXtXxWRQuM8o8iqtiyJ0uB4o05Z =BI5d -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eben Eliason wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed in that manner. I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC sharing, regardless of max_participants. Of course not. I didn't mean to imply such a limitation; only that the VNC solution would be the /only/ option after some participants limit was reached. That is, you could either Join or Watch any shared activity, but the Join option would disappear once full...Watch would remain. It's possible we'd have an upper bound on the number of people who could watch as well, but I don't think that's an activity-specific parameter. Oh! That's beautiful. Let's do that. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmHl60ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqTXXACdH1WGy6vrO8JibUPy+AbPXQs0 5X0An1Y3zcLXrr3kP9itQ8pUHZ7ujjpD =YKXn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: OK, but as an Activity author I might like to specify that cap at runtime, depending on many things, such as the size of the document. ... start collaborating on an empty Write.xo doc, and shed participants dynamically as the document grows ;-) m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
On 3 Feb 2009, at 01:02, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eben Eliason wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed in that manner. I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC sharing, regardless of max_participants. Of course not. I didn't mean to imply such a limitation; only that the VNC solution would be the /only/ option after some participants limit was reached. That is, you could either Join or Watch any shared activity, but the Join option would disappear once full...Watch would remain. It's possible we'd have an upper bound on the number of people who could watch as well, but I don't think that's an activity-specific parameter. Oh! That's beautiful. Let's do that. I don't mean to rain on the parade here, but am I the only one who finds VNC slow even on high spec equipment over a dedicated broadband connection? I do use it occasionally for remote support, so it does have its uses – but a handful of XOs in the same wireless spectrum? Ouch. From a technical stand point VNC is going to be almost always more memory hungry, more cpu hungry, and more bandwidth hungry than most activity collaborations, seems to be an overly hopeful collaboration method to fallback on. Happy to be proven wrong, and I guess it could be a Sugar feature not really intended for XOs. Regards, --Gary - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmHl60ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqTXXACdH1WGy6vrO8JibUPy+AbPXQs0 5X0An1Y3zcLXrr3kP9itQ8pUHZ7ujjpD =YKXn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC upgrades
2009/2/2 Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com: take better advantage of the excellent hardware that is the XO-1. I'd really like to see someone try to build a tiny LFS based XO specific distro which runs Sugar, and boots in 30sec :) I've got my personal XO booting in around 45sec just by hacking around in the initscripts, and I'm sure a lot better could be done. Patches? --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
Gary, I've used it for many years on machines much less powerful than the XO, often for an sshable net meeting with multiple participants, and I think you might need to do a few simple things to speed it up for yourself. (Remove fancy graphic backdrop, try for a smaller palette). These things are pretty congruent with the normal state of the desktop on the XO. On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: On 3 Feb 2009, at 01:02, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eben Eliason wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed in that manner. I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC sharing, regardless of max_participants. Of course not. I didn't mean to imply such a limitation; only that the VNC solution would be the /only/ option after some participants limit was reached. That is, you could either Join or Watch any shared activity, but the Join option would disappear once full...Watch would remain. It's possible we'd have an upper bound on the number of people who could watch as well, but I don't think that's an activity-specific parameter. Oh! That's beautiful. Let's do that. I don't mean to rain on the parade here, but am I the only one who finds VNC slow even on high spec equipment over a dedicated broadband connection? I do use it occasionally for remote support, so it does have its uses – but a handful of XOs in the same wireless spectrum? Ouch. From a technical stand point VNC is going to be almost always more memory hungry, more cpu hungry, and more bandwidth hungry than most activity collaborations, seems to be an overly hopeful collaboration method to fallback on. Happy to be proven wrong, and I guess it could be a Sugar feature not really intended for XOs. Regards, --Gary - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmHl60ACgkQUJT6e6HFtqTXXACdH1WGy6vrO8JibUPy+AbPXQs0 5X0An1Y3zcLXrr3kP9itQ8pUHZ7ujjpD =YKXn -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Don't think for a minute that power concedes. We have to work like our future depends on it. -- Barack Obama ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 11:13 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote: 802.11s is not simple, nor safe. lol. That's right. Now, you are talking about DNS-SD without mDNS. Spent some good time reading up on both, and DNS-SD sounds good for what we're trying to do. Everybody uses them together, however, and all the nice libraries (avahi and friends) make no distinction between the two. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong docs - so pointers welcome. If I'm right, however, we can still write our own simple dns-sd client glue and a abuse named on the XS. Please concentrate on plain 802.11 networks for now. It's not so black-and-white . Whatever its status right now, 802.11s is still an important consideration. cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:41 PM, Eben Eliason e...@laptop.org wrote: Scott (CC'd) has already come up with some really nice proposals for adding VNC as an alternate colaboration mechanism for all activities. In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed in that manner. Scott, could you point to any materials you've already written up on the matter? Would you have time and/or desire to assist others who are interested in taking on such a feature? I'd love to see this happen, myself, and have given some preliminary thought to the UI already. Chris Ball has actually started to implement this: http://cananian.livejournal.com/54002.html http://blog.printf.net/articles/2009/01/26/multi-pointer-remote-desktop Written up in http://cscott.net/Publications/OLPC/sugarcamp-collab.pdf (video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7Ei2fp4Iww ). --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote: Happy to be proven wrong, and I guess it could be a Sugar feature not really intended for XOs. Let's let the flowers bloom: I don't doubt that there are many ways to make *better* collaboration, on an activity-by-activity basis. But VNC is something that can be created as a common baseline. Let's start by doing that, and improve it on a case-by-case basis, instead of having *no collaboration* as our baseline. FWIW, I second Carol's comments: VNC works quite nicely on fast local networks, such as direction connections between XOs, and I've used it on clients as simple as a Palm Pilot and a Mac SE/30. Reducing graphic busy-ness and palette size helps a lot! Also: don't run xvncviewer remotely: VNC is network efficient, but the way its X client uses the network between it and the X server is definitely *not*! --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel