OLPC News 2007-12-30
1. Give One Get One: The G1G1 program ends on December 31. G1G1 has not only made it possible to seed the launch of programs in Haiti, Rwanda, Ethiopia, Cambodia, Mongolia, and Afghanistan, but we have also greatly broaden the community of participation in the project. The community has already jumped in to help: the level of activity in our forums, IRC, email lists, wiki, etc. has risen dramatically over the past few weeks. G1G1 participants have asked lots of questions—and have uncovered some new bugs—but they also have lots of answers—and have submitted some new patches. The community model seems to be scaling. Many thanks to Hilary Meserole and the tireless efforts from the teams at Pentagram, Nurun, Eleven, Patriot, and Brightstar. 2. Mary Lou Jepsen: Mary Lou's last day at OLPC is December 31. She will be continuing to consult with us on a number of different fronts as she chases after her next miracle in display technology. Mary Lou was OLPC employee Number One, both in terms of when she joined the organization and in terms of the breadth and depth of her contributions. Thank you and best of luck with your adventures in a new role and new year. 3. Embedded controller (EC): Richard Smith has tested a battery EEPROM dumping feature recently added by Andres Salomon: it seems to work great. Richard has written crontab scripts and phone home scripts for inclusion in joyride builds, with the intent to include them in an upcoming release to build an anonymous database of battery performance. These scripts will sample the power used every five minutes and log it. They only sample when the battery is charging or discharging. The hope is to gather a composite view of battery performance under realistic conditions of use. Richard noticed that on the community-development list there are at least two reports of the EC going terminal, meaning that on boot they get the error message: EC problem. Remove all power and restart. We need to get those machines to Cambridge to investigate further. Another issue found on the community-list are reports from a few people about their batteries not charging. Richard says this would not surprise him if they were NiMH batteries, but G1G1 machines have the LiFePo batteries. He did had one person run logbat and send him the results: the EC reads the battery fine and is attempting to charge the battery but no current ever goes into the battery. Again, we need to get these machines to Cambridge as we haven't seen this behavior before. 4. Open Firmware: Mitch Bradley continued to provide G1G1 customer support, for example, chasing down some problems with SD cards. He also added the ability to delete JFFS2 files from Open Firmware and fixed Tickets #5717, #5585, and #5727, all improvements to the overall OFW performance and reliability. Preparations continue on OFW for the Intel prototype XO board. 5. Wireless firmware: Marvell released firmware version 5.110.20.p49 which addresses Ticket #5194. With this firmware release, all known major low-level bugs have been addressed. With the wireless driver that's in the current ship builds, we see locking errors under heavy load from which the driver recovers automatically. David Woodhouse is doing a major rewrite of the driver which should eventually address that issue. 6. Software ECOs: From time to time there may be critical bug fixes that must be released between our regularly scheduled releases. These may occur due to security issues, from unexpected hardware problems, or the discovery of latent bugs that affect large numbers of users. We've started a page in wiki discuss the software engineering change order (ECO) process (See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Operating_system_release_procedures). 7. Support: The past week has been a busy one for Adam Holt and the OLPC support team. Adam has organized a team of 30 support volunteers to comprehensively answer [EMAIL PROTECTED] tickets. (Each ticket is an ongoing email conversation with a donor/client.) The volunteer team is working hard, but keeping up with the support load. Part of the process includes the compilation of a Support FAQ (See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Support_FAQ). Adam is also organizing a virtual call center based on asterisk.org VoIP. Matthew O'Gorman is helping finalize the server. Callers will access a local US number in the 617 area code. It will be informal, but we hope it will provide a critical outreach to those users who need it most. We hope to complete testing and possibly an initial rollout within the coming week. Please everyone recruit your XO-aware friends as: (1) charming volunteers to answer phones; and (2) perfectionist volunteers to help organize our wiki pages. You can email Adam regarding your talents, motivations, and a phone number at holt AT laptop DOT org. Thanks! There will be an Organizing Sunday meeting among our volunteers on 30 December, 4PM EST. All interested parties can join if they email Adam first. Noah Kantrowitz has helped to
Re: joyride image Jffs2 on usb ?
On Dec 29, 2007 6:36 PM, Ivan Krstić [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Dec 28, 2007, at 9:32 PM, Mr frÿffe9dÿffe9ric pouchal wrote: There is a file that ends with jffs2.usb Does it mean that you can use jffs2 on usb ? No, and you don't want to be using JFFS2 on a USB hard drive. It is a flash filesystem. From a quick glance at the pilgrim source, however, generation of those .usb files for the JFFS2 image flavor strikes me as a mistake. Scott, can you elucidate? As is documented at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/olpc-update the osXYZ.usb files are used for olpc-updating to the new build from a USB key or SD card. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: How can the XO be made accessible to blind
Hi, We have been working on a simple screen reader for the XO and have made some headway. We have ported and customized eSpeak for the XO. A text to speech server has been written and methods exposed through Dbus . I have documented the work done till now at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Screen_Reader. The DBUS api may be changed in the future. However, we still need to do some extensive testing and refine the structure of the speech server. We had initially planned to provide a simple highlight and speak option for the xo. We now think that we should scale up and structure the project to use eSpeak in a much more effective manner to provide accessibility to blind/low vision students. I think it would be brilliant if activity developers could exploit the underlying speech server to write accessible activities. For example, an activity at present can connect to the speech service through dbus and send it strings of text to be spoken. We hope to prepare some guidelines for activity developers to write accessible activities that could use the speech server. What would be best way to do this? We are also planning to explore Orca. We dont want to rush into development now, and would like to take some time in properly planning our approach and creating some design documents first. It'll be nice if experts could share their ideas and provide us with some direction for this project. Thank you and wishing you all a very Happy New Year. Warm regards, Hemant Goyal Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:57:38 + From: Gabey8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [laptop-accessibility] How can the XO be made accessible to blind users? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have some deaf-blind friends who use braille attachments to access their computers. What needs to be done in order to permit the XO to work with a braille terminal or notetaker? What screen reading programs are available for Linux? And if said screen reading programs don't like working with Sugar (yet, anyway), is setting the XO up to boot to the terminal screen and going with text-only a viable solution for braille users? Donna Donna -- purple outline with orange fill color. If you see me in the Neighborhood, say hi! :) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
TurtleArt Mandelbrot
I was intrigued by Turtle Art, and wanted to learn how to use it. I was also bored, stuck in an airport after my flight was delayed. Therefore, I decided to write a Mandelbrot Fractal generator in Turtle Art. You can see the result here: http://dev.laptop.org/~bemasc/mandelbrot/Screenshot.png or download it from http://dev.laptop.org/~bemasc/mandelbrot/ I do not know very much about Turtle Art. In particular, I do not know the stack/box scoping rules, or whether boxes are int or float. In that context, at least, this program was very difficult to write, and several bizarre tricks were required to do complex arithmetic with only two variables and no order of operations. The program is amazingly slow. The program hangs after about an hour, leaving Turtle Art in an infinite loop. I presume this is a bug in Turtle Art. --Ben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Updates API documentation for everything.
On Dec 30, 2007 1:31 PM, Jeffrey Kesselman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In general it would be good if a docs could be made downloadable... I don't always have net access. Good point. When I integrate this into the build process, I'll be sure to .zip up the files as well. In the interim: http://dev.laptop.org/~cscott/joyride-1477-api.zip --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: How can the XO be made accessible to blind
On a somewhat related note, is there any way to attach an external monitor to the XO? I would love to give my astronomy research seminars in the spring from my G1G1 XO; but this would also be useful for those with impaired sight (some of my colleagues need to immensely magnify images, diagrams, and figures in order to see them). From my XO, Hogg On Dec 30, 2007 12:52 PM, Hemant Goyal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We have been working on a simple screen reader for the XO and have made some headway. We have ported and customized eSpeak for the XO. A text to speech server has been written and methods exposed through Dbus . I have documented the work done till now at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Screen_Reader. The DBUS api may be changed in the future. However, we still need to do some extensive testing and refine the structure of the speech server. We had initially planned to provide a simple highlight and speak option for the xo. We now think that we should scale up and structure the project to use eSpeak in a much more effective manner to provide accessibility to blind/low vision students. I think it would be brilliant if activity developers could exploit the underlying speech server to write accessible activities. For example, an activity at present can connect to the speech service through dbus and send it strings of text to be spoken. We hope to prepare some guidelines for activity developers to write accessible activities that could use the speech server. What would be best way to do this? We are also planning to explore Orca. We dont want to rush into development now, and would like to take some time in properly planning our approach and creating some design documents first. It'll be nice if experts could share their ideas and provide us with some direction for this project. Thank you and wishing you all a very Happy New Year. Warm regards, Hemant Goyal Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:57:38 + From: Gabey8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [laptop-accessibility] How can the XO be made accessible to blind users? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have some deaf-blind friends who use braille attachments to access their computers. What needs to be done in order to permit the XO to work with a braille terminal or notetaker? What screen reading programs are available for Linux? And if said screen reading programs don't like working with Sugar (yet, anyway), is setting the XO up to boot to the terminal screen and going with text-only a viable solution for braille users? Donna Donna -- purple outline with orange fill color. If you see me in the Neighborhood, say hi! :) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- David W. Hogg - associate professor, NYU - http://cosmo.nyu.edu/hogg/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Oprofile, swap
I played a bit with Psycho a few months ago, trying to speed up my B2 machine. I was not able to get a a measurable speedup, so I abandoned my testings. Zvi Ivan Krstić wrote: On Dec 18, 2007, at 12:27 PM, Jameson Chema Quinn wrote: Has anyone looked at Psyco on the XO? Psyco improves performance at the cost of memory. On a memory- constrained machine, it's a tradeoff that can only be made in laser- focused, specific cases. We have not done the work -- partly for lack of time, partly for lack of sufficiently good tools -- to determine those foci. -- Ivan Krstić [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://radian.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: How can the XO be made accessible to blind
David W Hogg wrote: On a somewhat related note, is there any way to attach an external monitor to the XO? I would love to give my astronomy research seminars in the spring from my G1G1 XO; but this would also be useful for those with impaired sight (some of my colleagues need to immensely magnify images, diagrams, and figures in order to see them). From my XO, Hogg Three solutions: a) Display the XO's graphics on another computer using X or VNC. b) Purchase a USB graphics adapter. (Google for USB graphics adapter to find some). It is reported that Linux drivers are available for some of them, but as far as I know, nobody has tested one on an XO. c) Dismantle the XO, install a suitable VGA connector at CN12 at the top left of the board (looking from the back), and cut a hole in the plastic to make room for the VGA cable to get out. A modification to the X configuration file will then enable VGA output. (Yes, it would be nice if this feature were easier to access, but providing such a connector as a standard feature would have increased the cost for our target market of developing world children, and compromised the industrial design and water resistance.) On Dec 30, 2007 12:52 PM, Hemant Goyal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, We have been working on a simple screen reader for the XO and have made some headway. We have ported and customized eSpeak for the XO. A text to speech server has been written and methods exposed through Dbus . I have documented the work done till now at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Screen_Reader. The DBUS api may be changed in the future. However, we still need to do some extensive testing and refine the structure of the speech server. We had initially planned to provide a simple highlight and speak option for the xo. We now think that we should scale up and structure the project to use eSpeak in a much more effective manner to provide accessibility to blind/low vision students. I think it would be brilliant if activity developers could exploit the underlying speech server to write accessible activities. For example, an activity at present can connect to the speech service through dbus and send it strings of text to be spoken. We hope to prepare some guidelines for activity developers to write accessible activities that could use the speech server. What would be best way to do this? We are also planning to explore Orca. We dont want to rush into development now, and would like to take some time in properly planning our approach and creating some design documents first. It'll be nice if experts could share their ideas and provide us with some direction for this project. Thank you and wishing you all a very Happy New Year. Warm regards, Hemant Goyal Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:57:38 + From: Gabey8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [laptop-accessibility] How can the XO be made accessible to blind users? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have some deaf-blind friends who use braille attachments to access their computers. What needs to be done in order to permit the XO to work with a braille terminal or notetaker? What screen reading programs are available for Linux? And if said screen reading programs don't like working with Sugar (yet, anyway), is setting the XO up to boot to the terminal screen and going with text-only a viable solution for braille users? Donna Donna -- purple outline with orange fill color. If you see me in the Neighborhood, say hi! :) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC News 2007-12-30
Richard noticed that on the community-development list there are at least two reports of the EC going terminal, meaning that on boot they get the error message: EC problem. Remove all power and restart. We need to get those machines to Cambridge to investigate further. It is unlikely that getting those specific machines to Cambridge will prove helpful, unless one of those systems exhibits the problem with great regularity. I have seen that problem happen on quite a few machines - but it happens very infrequently, always on a power-up, and it always goes away when you completely reset the EC by removing the battery and AC. It is quite possible that fixing http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/4397 will make the problem go away. The technique that the kernel currently uses to reboot involves forcing a triple-fault, which results in the main CPU resetting without the EC's knowledge. There is a 2-line patch in the ticket; it makes the kernel reboot using the approved EC interaction. I have been trying for 2 months to get this fix included in the kernel, but so far I haven't managed to get any traction. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC News 2007-12-30
On Dec 31, 2007 3:23 AM, Mitch Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: resetting without the EC's knowledge. There is a 2-line patch in the ticket; it makes the kernel reboot using the approved EC interaction. Looking at your trac entry, I see: The change is in arch/i386/kernel/reboot_fixups.c : cs5536_warm_reset(), more or less like this: + #ifdef CONFIG_OLPC +outb(0xdb, 0x66); +udelay (100); + #endif wrmsrl(0x51400017, 1ULL); udelay(50); I have been trying for 2 months to get this fix included in the kernel, but so far I haven't managed to get any traction. I am unsure if you mean the olpc repo or if you mean you haven't been able to get the patch into Linus's mainline tree. If you mean mainline, I didn't see the patch and can't find your posting in [EMAIL PROTECTED] archives. If you can repost your patch after diffing it against mainline (the file may be renamed to arch/x86/kernel/reboot_fixups_32.c after the x86-64 merge) and please CC me, I would be happy to ack it and Andres's previous one as well. Thanks, jaya ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: How can the XO be made accessible to blind
Espeak works fine, the XO just did not have the correct sound system config installed because somebody forgot to enable OSS emulation in ALSA. I hope you did not waste a lot of time editing the code for Espeak to get around this bug, I hope you did not edit it to make it pipe out sound data to be plaved via another utility, as espeak does all that by itself much faster, direct to the sound card without pipes, once the OSS sound system it requires is fully emulated in ALSA and it can use the required /dev/dsp and related file devices that it requires. I actualy files some bugs on this; Look for keyword 'espeak'. - Duane King On Sunday 30 December 2007 09:52:16 am Hemant Goyal wrote: Hi, We have been working on a simple screen reader for the XO and have made some headway. We have ported and customized eSpeak for the XO. A text to speech server has been written and methods exposed through Dbus . I have documented the work done till now at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Screen_Reader. The DBUS api may be changed in the future. However, we still need to do some extensive testing and refine the structure of the speech server. We had initially planned to provide a simple highlight and speak option for the xo. We now think that we should scale up and structure the project to use eSpeak in a much more effective manner to provide accessibility to blind/low vision students. I think it would be brilliant if activity developers could exploit the underlying speech server to write accessible activities. For example, an activity at present can connect to the speech service through dbus and send it strings of text to be spoken. We hope to prepare some guidelines for activity developers to write accessible activities that could use the speech server. What would be best way to do this? We are also planning to explore Orca. We dont want to rush into development now, and would like to take some time in properly planning our approach and creating some design documents first. It'll be nice if experts could share their ideas and provide us with some direction for this project. Thank you and wishing you all a very Happy New Year. Warm regards, Hemant Goyal Message: 1 Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:57:38 + From: Gabey8 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [laptop-accessibility] How can the XO be made accessible to blind users? To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have some deaf-blind friends who use braille attachments to access their computers. What needs to be done in order to permit the XO to work with a braille terminal or notetaker? What screen reading programs are available for Linux? And if said screen reading programs don't like working with Sugar (yet, anyway), is setting the XO up to boot to the terminal screen and going with text-only a viable solution for braille users? Donna Donna -- purple outline with orange fill color. If you see me in the Neighborhood, say hi! :) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC News 2007-12-30
Mitch Bradley wrote: Richard noticed that on the community-development list there are at least two reports of the EC going terminal, meaning that on boot they get the error message: EC problem. Remove all power and restart. We need to get those machines to Cambridge to investigate further. It is unlikely that getting those specific machines to Cambridge will prove helpful, unless one of those systems exhibits the problem with A fact ommited from the summary of my report was that it happens 100%. The laptop won't boot regardless of how long they leave it without power. -- Richard Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC News 2007-12-30
Jaya Kumar wrote: On Dec 31, 2007 3:23 AM, Mitch Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: resetting without the EC's knowledge. There is a 2-line patch in the ticket; it makes the kernel reboot using the approved EC interaction. Looking at your trac entry, I see: The change is in arch/i386/kernel/reboot_fixups.c : cs5536_warm_reset(), more or less like this: + #ifdef CONFIG_OLPC +outb(0xdb, 0x66); +udelay (100); + #endif wrmsrl(0x51400017, 1ULL); udelay(50); I have been trying for 2 months to get this fix included in the kernel, but so far I haven't managed to get any traction. I am unsure if you mean the olpc repo I meant the OLPC kernel. I presume that OLPC changes will be offered to mainline in some batch fashion, rather than piecemeal. This particular one is of no upstream value in isolation, as it is utterly dependent on OLPC-specific EC commands. or if you mean you haven't been able to get the patch into Linus's mainline tree. If you mean mainline, I didn't see the patch and can't find your posting in [EMAIL PROTECTED] archives. If you can repost your patch after diffing it against mainline (the file may be renamed to arch/x86/kernel/reboot_fixups_32.c after the x86-64 merge) and please CC me, I would be happy to ack it and Andres's previous one as well. Thanks, jaya ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OLPC News 2007-12-30
Richard A. Smith wrote: Mitch Bradley wrote: Richard noticed that on the community-development list there are at least two reports of the EC going terminal, meaning that on boot they get the error message: EC problem. Remove all power and restart. We need to get those machines to Cambridge to investigate further. It is unlikely that getting those specific machines to Cambridge will prove helpful, unless one of those systems exhibits the problem with A fact ommited from the summary of my report was that it happens 100%. The laptop won't boot regardless of how long they leave it without power. Ah, those would indeed be worthwhile to analyze. I'm not sure they will shed much light on the sporadic occurrences of the EC problem symptom, though. The 100% case is likely to be an EC that is completely broken in some way. We need to get root cause on both, eventually. The EC problem message is not particularly precise as a microscopic diagnostic - it basically means that OFW tried to talk to the EC and the EC didn't answer. That could be caused by any number of EC issues into which OFW has little visibility. My best guess is that fails every time is probably due to a different root cause than fails once in a blue moon. I would bet on hardware for the former and software/firmware for the latter. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Sugar UI design and Tux Paint
On Dec 30, 2007 12:02 AM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jameson Chema Quinn writes: One thing I've noticed in Tux Paint is that an Edit toolbar is far less useful than an Edit menu. You want to copy something - you go to the edit toolbar - you select the copy 'tool' - and nothing happens, because you don't have anything selected. So how do you select something? Oh, that tool is over in some other toolbar. Huh? Tux Paint doesn't have any of that complicated stuff. Are you sure you're using Tux Paint? The icon is a penguin. Oops sorry, I meant the OLPC Paint activity, I didn't realize there were two. (I read with interest your other comments on Sugar, and would say I agree if it weren't just me bikeshedding.) Jameson ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Question about button mapping in Browse handheld mode
Jake, the behavior you see is as expected from recent builds. That feature is planned for implementation in the future (currently update.2). SJ On Dec 28, 2007 9:48 AM, Jake Beard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This looks like the most likely candidate: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/2249 Unfortunately, the last time it was touch was three months ago. Is anyone doing any work on this? Please let me know. Thanks. Jake On Dec 28, 2007 6:19 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there's a bug filed in trac, assigned to the browse-activity component, which discusses key mappings in handheld mode. I'm reading mail on my cellphone, so I can't look it up for you know, but it shouldn't be hard to find from http://dev.laptop.org/ --scott On 12/27/07, Jake Beard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, My apologies for the cross-post. I've asked about this on sugar list, but didn't receive a response, so I thought I'd try here. I cannot seem to get the button mapping for Browse handheld mode to work according to the behavior listed here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Browse#Button_Mapping For me, the D-Pad seems to pan up, down, left and right, and the gampad buttons appear to map to page up, page down, go to the top of the page and go to the bottom of the page, even when in handheld mode. Are the button mappings listed on the wiki currently implemented, or just planned for later on? I'm using a recent joyride. I'd appreciate it if anyone could help me determine what is going on. Thanks. Jake ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: TurtleArt Mandelbrot
Ben, that's neat. Speaking of fractals: Bernie has been working on sugarizing Gnu Xaos, and we were just tweaking an icon. It has a lovely tutorial about what fractals are that could serve as a model for other tutorials. SJ On Dec 30, 2007 12:58 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was intrigued by Turtle Art, and wanted to learn how to use it. I was also bored, stuck in an airport after my flight was delayed. Therefore, I decided to write a Mandelbrot Fractal generator in Turtle Art. You can see the result here: http://dev.laptop.org/~bemasc/mandelbrot/Screenshot.png or download it from http://dev.laptop.org/~bemasc/mandelbrot/ I do not know very much about Turtle Art. In particular, I do not know the stack/box scoping rules, or whether boxes are int or float. In that context, at least, this program was very difficult to write, and several bizarre tricks were required to do complex arithmetic with only two variables and no order of operations. The program is amazingly slow. The program hangs after about an hour, leaving Turtle Art in an infinite loop. I presume this is a bug in Turtle Art. --Ben ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
