Re: Jumpy touch pad observation

[Richard A. Smith]

Gary C Martin wrote:
> Forgive me if I'm about to start an old wives tale, but I've  
> encountered the jumpy touch pad issues quite a lot on the B4 XO I have  
> here for testing. I'm currently running a recent joyride (2137) and  
> firmware (Q2D16) and am still encountering issues.
> 
> Observation: If the XO is fully charged and still plugged in to mains  
> supply the jumpiness can be very persistent, however if I unplug the  
> power adapter, the XO seems to then correctly re-calibrate within  
> seconds.

Its ground plane changes.  According to Alps we are supposed to be 
issuing a recal on AC insert/removal or and lid open.  And we don't do 
that yet in the chain of events.

A claim from Alps is that there is so little metal in the XO that the 
ground plane capacitance has a really large variance based on its 
environment and whats plugged up to it.  Even after we added more metal 
in the frame to help.  So your observation falls in line with known data 
from the mfg.

If you are plugged up to mains and its jumpy does a 4 finger recal fix it?

Either way when its jumpy please enable kern.* logging in 
/etc/rsyslog.conf, route it to a file, and restart rsyslogd.  Then echo 
1 > /sys/module/psmouse/parameters/tpdebug
Then use the mouse jumpy for a while and send me, dilinger, or deepak 
the log file for us to look at.

-- 
Richard Smith  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
One Laptop Per Child
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Re: New 8.2 Stream

[Bobby Powers]

2008/7/10 Dennis Gilmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> in preparation for 8.2  we  have a new 8.2 stream  it can be found at
> http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/xo-1/streams/8.2/
> Please test and file bugs against it. This is the stream intended for the 8.2
> test builds.

This sounds good.  Can you please explain how this differs from
joyride, both at the moment and in the future?   Is this based off of
Joyride 21XX, what kind of sync will there be, etc.

Thanks!

yours,
bobby

> --
> Dennis Gilmore
>
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New joyride build 2145

[Build Announcer v2]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2145

Changes in build 2145 from build: 2144

Size delta: 0.00M

-kernel 2.6.25-20080710.6.olpc.cb2052a2314b6ec
+kernel 2.6.25-20080710.8.olpc.ef6958ba170975d

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New 8.2 Stream

[Dennis Gilmore]

in preparation for 8.2  we  have a new 8.2 stream  it can be found at  
http://pilgrim.laptop.org/~pilgrim/xo-1/streams/8.2/
Please test and file bugs against it. This is the stream intended for the 8.2 
test builds.

-- 
Dennis Gilmore



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Re: Jumpy touch pad observation

[James Cameron]

G'day Gary,

Have you another power supply you can try with?

What sort of power supply are you using?  Is it one of the B4 range with
white label, a model number P018WA120J and a single screw?  Or one of
the XO branded ones with green label from Delta Electronics Inc.  Or
something different?

Would you happen to have a ferrite toroid you could clamp on the end of
the DC cable?  Wrap the cable through the toroid as many times as you
can, and this will help block RF interference from any radio sources
nearby.  If this solves the symptom, then you may be in an environment
that has a lot of radiofrequency energy.

(I've seen some strange things happen when I've used an amateur radio
nearby, but the field strengths I've used are somewhat out of the
ordinary).

The guys working on the touchpad driver changes could also have a lot to
say ... but the B4 hardware isn't exactly an interesting thing since it
isn't what is being made.

-- 
James Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: joyride 2128 smoketest

[Michael Stone]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 02:35:23PM -0400, Erik Garrison wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:53:20AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > Here are several problems you might think about:
> > 
> > 1) We'd like people to be able to package activities on a wide variety
> > of systems including on Windows. To the best of my knowledge, it
> > currently requires nontrivial Unix expertise to produce most Unix
> > packaging formats.
> 
> I suggest we assist in .xo -> .rpm / .deb and obtain the benefits of a
> package manager on whatever fraction of the XOs run linux.  If we retain
> .xo files and an installer for Windows, then we are doing as well as we
> can be expected to on Windows.  At present are we even sure that
> Activities are going to run on Windows?  Activity maintainers will have
> to port them.

You misunderstand. A design goal of the .xo[l] format is for casual
developers whose primary platform is not Unix to be able to contribute
content to the XO. While there are certainly work-arounds that could be
built, for example a web-based builder or a really portable packaging
tool, it's presently challenging to build packages in the common formats
absent far more Unix know-how than is necessary to write activities.

> > 2) We'd like people to be able to install activities with relatively low
> > privilege -- in particular, without root privilege. Linux packaging
> > formats and guidelines often assume that the person installing packages
> > has access to root authority (or is able to do something comparable like
> > chroot + fakeroot). What can we do about this? For example:
> 
> By default XO users have access to root privelages (Terminal + su).  Why
> is it not acceptable for them to have access in the context of activity
> installation and upgrade?

XO users in some of our large deployments do not have access to root
privileges at all (save via developer key or privilege escalation attack).

> >   * RPM supports relocation and (for some packages) installation as an
> > unprivileged user. However, privilege is needed in order to update
> > the system rpm database. Perhaps we could teach RPM how to maintain
> > two databases; one privileged and one not?
> 
> The typical use case for such an arrangement is a multi-user system in
> which users would like to install custom software without disturbing the
> system at large.  In the case of the XO there are no other users.  The
> actions of the principal user affect only that user.

You're not considering changes that country deployment teams make to the
XO which they expect will not be modified by end users of the XO (who do
not take active steps to control their system, e.g. by requesting a
developer key).

> >   * Alternately, we could imagine running activities in a copy-on-write
> > (CoW) filesystem (union-mounted, FUSE, vserver, ...) with either a
> > false sense of privilege (fakeroot) or a restricted form of real
> > privilege (vserver, selinux, ...). Then we could install packages
> > for activities which need them with relatively little hassle. 
> >  
> >   - How could we share disk usage costs between such activities?
> > 
> >   - Could we ever update the packages inside these containers?
> 
> This would be very messy.

Maybe yes, maybe no. It works quite well for building software (e.g.
pbuilder and mock) and for hosting servers (vserver).

> I conclude from your comments that our current security model
> discourages the use of existing package-based Linux software
> distribution systems.  I find it interesting that these same systems are
> crucial components in generic 'soft' Linux security models.

How familiar are you with Bitfrost?

> I suggest that, if we can adjust our security model to accept it, a
> package system could be used for both software installation and updates
> and the resolution of security concerns via security-oriented updates.

Which aspect of our security model would you suggest altering?

> How are we planning on providing security updates?  

When connectivity is available, via olpc-update (which is quite
bandwidth-efficient) and via our regular software releases to country
deployments otherwise.

> Do you agree that a package manager-based solution is tenable?

I believe that an acceptable package management system could be built
but I'm not aware of one that presently exists which satisfies our other
requirements.

Michael
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New joyride build 2143

[Build Announcer v2]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2143

Changes in build 2143 from build: 2139

Size delta: 0.00M

-kernel 2.6.25-20080710.3.olpc.14813f826d6ccaf
+kernel 2.6.25-20080710.4.olpc.29988de10d137be

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Jumpy touch pad observation

[Gary C Martin]

Forgive me if I'm about to start an old wives tale, but I've  
encountered the jumpy touch pad issues quite a lot on the B4 XO I have  
here for testing. I'm currently running a recent joyride (2137) and  
firmware (Q2D16) and am still encountering issues.

Observation: If the XO is fully charged and still plugged in to mains  
supply the jumpiness can be very persistent, however if I unplug the  
power adapter, the XO seems to then correctly re-calibrate within  
seconds.

I've been trying to confirm this each time I get a jumping cursor  
(over a month or two now), there are several causes (random taps, wet  
hands, smudges on pad etc), but unplugging does seems to help it  
settle down when it's in one of it's persistent 'not able to re- 
calibrate' moods.

Maybe just something with my B4 hardware, but thought it worth  
mentioning here. With the recent driver re-work I think it may be  
easier to catch** now.

**easy to tell that the driver is unhappy with data from the pad as  
the cursor clearly stops moving for a few seconds while it tries to re- 
calibrate, cursor will keep stopping like this every few seconds until  
you stop faffing and take your hands off the pad for ~3 sec (so it can  
successfully re-calibrate the HW).

--Gary

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Re:8.2.0 Release Notes

[Greg Smith]

Hi All,

I made a little progress today on the release notes. See: 
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Notes/8.2.0

Thanks to whoever posted the Sugar Control Panel pictures (I also 
upgraded an XO to 2128 try it myself, looks like I need a newer version 
to get the latest).

One comment on the Sugar Control Panel. Can we change the name/label of 
the "Date and Time" section to "Timezone"? Looks to me like it only 
allows setting of time zone.

Thanks to Dan for creating the Activity Incompatibility section.

Can you add a URL for each and a note explaining how you know which 
version you are running?

Also, can we list activities which we know do not need updating?

Lastly on the activity section if anyone can succinctly explain the new 
activity management capabilities of Sugar that will be helpful.

I tried to clean up the Upgrade section. Review and edits on that welcome.

Can someone (maybe Michael) identify the Trac field and value I can 
query on to show all bugs which have been resolved in this release?

I added an open bugs link but I could use help in listing the important 
ones. If you know of bugs that users should be aware of go ahead call 
out the bug ID in that section.

The new features section is still raw so edits and comments appreciated.

Am I missing any important new features?

I like to focus on the ones that  have some user visible benefit so now 
is your chance to promote any work you have done to the user base...

Thanks,

Greg S



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Re: 8.1 Kernel for touchpad testing

[pgf]

deepak wrote:
 > I have built an RPM with the 2.6.22 kernel + driver backport that folks 
 > running <= 703 can use for this purpose:
 > 
 > http://dev.laptop.org/~dsaxena/kernel-2.6.22-20080710.1.olpc.0.i586.rpm
 > 
 > See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Kernel#Installing_OLPC_kernel_RPMs for 
 > information on how to install this update.
 > 
 > Please provide feedback on the mouse behaviour if you decide to 
 > install this.

nice.  thanks.  installed and works fine on my 703 and 656 machines.

paul
=-
 paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Power on button remaps the keyboard

[Dov Grobgeld]

Just installed joyride-2139, which solves the sleep mode problem. But, in
addition to entering sleep mode, the power button still causes a
MappingNotifyEvent which undoes the effect of my xkbcomp command. I'll open
a bug on this.

Thanks,
Dov

2008/7/7 Deepak Saxena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> On Jul 07 2008, at 20:55, Dov Grobgeld was caught saying:
> > I'm running joyride-2097. Should I open an issue? Is it one or two bugs?
> One
> > bug is the remapping. And the second is that it does not go into sleep
> mode?
>
> I think OHM bits might not have been in place in 2097. Suspend/resume
> works in the latest builds (2123). Please try your remaping again with
> this build and file a bug if you still see the problem.
>
> ~Deepak
>
> --
> Deepak Saxena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
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Re: Journal Entry Bundle - autoactivation?

[Martin Langhoff]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 3:55 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 15:47 -0300, Martin Langhoff wrote:
>> On Joyride 2129 I am having trouble getting JEBs to do anything magic
>> when downloaded on the XO. I click on the link and... nothing happens
>> :-)
>
> Possibly #7247, make sure you are running Browse-92

To confirm, with a few contortions to get Browse-92 installed, JEBs are all go.

cheers,




m
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Re: joyride 2128 smoketest

[Eben Eliason]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 2:15 AM, Erik Garrison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Commonly utilized solution (at least in the Linux world):
>  Use a package manager to manage such details for the user.  For each
> packaged version of an activity, record which versions of other system
> libraries and applications it requires and where to download it.  When
> the user attempts to install a package, check that its dependencies are
> met in the existing system.  If they are not, ask the user if they wish
> to make the required upgrades and inform them of the consequences (in
> terms of memory usage and other software breakage).
>
> Such a system could also be used to deliver security updates and manage
> incremental system upgrades.  (For all discussion of security I've seen
> on the devel list, the distribution of security-related software updates
> is not something I have noticed.  How are we planning on doing this
> outside of olpc-update?)

I'm personally less concerned with the particulars of security
updates, but would say only that I'd prefer them to be pushed to the
machines automatically if desired, or at least made a one-click update
otherwise, ideally with some form of notification that an update is
available.  For that matter, olpc-update should ultimately be replaced
by a similar push/notification scheme, with a simple button press
(likely in the "about this XO" section of the control panel) to
update.  We could even extend this section when a dev key is detected,
to make installing "cutting edge" builds simple as well.  We might
also want to provide a link to the release notes in the same place.

> The problem of software deployment which you note in #3 is _exactly_ the
> kind of problem that package management system could be used to solve.
> We already ship one on the laptop (yum)!  Perhaps we could be using it
> to handle our activity updates?  If the problem is that yum is slow and
> awful, then maybe we need to start thinking about using apt.
>
> In the long run I have trouble imagining how this problem will be solved
> without roughly approximating the behavior of apt or rpm package
> management systems.  I suggest we start exploring methods to install and
> upgrade activities using such systems.  I do not know if this is
> something we can manage for the 8.2 release, but I would be more than
> willing to start working on it as soon as necessary.

So, there are two reasons that I'm /really/ hesitant to jump into the
average packaging model.

1. Activity bundles, to the extent possible, are designed to be as
self-contained as possible.  This is a trade-off, as obviously
required components that aren't on the system take up extra space in
the bundle, and may even be duplicated.  Early on we decided this was
an acceptable cost to support non- or intermittently-connected
circumstances, and to make possible ubiquitous peer to peer
bundle-sharing over the network.

2. We highly dislike the idea of presenting kids with "installation
procedures" of any kind.  For that matter, it's almost a shame that we
even have to do the technical step of unzipping the bundles to
officially install them, unlike, for instance, .app bundles on OSX
which run from anywhere, and are "installed" inasmuch as they reside
/somewhere/ (even external devices).  I'd really like to see us find a
way to make our bundles run "in place", so that kids can run large or
infrequently used activities off of USB sticks, for instance.  But,
back to the point, the only thing a kid should have to decide when
"installing" an activity is that they actually want to do so.


It seems that the only dependency info that does make sense is which
packages are required in the core build (can we somehow wrap API
versions into this equation as well?) for it to run.  That is, either
everything that this activity expects to have in Sugar itself is
present, or it's not, and we can then make basic recommendations on
what activities are compatible with what releases of Sugar based on
that.

- Eben
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Re: Journal Entry Bundle - autoactivation?

[Daniel Drake]

On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 15:47 -0300, Martin Langhoff wrote:
> On Joyride 2129 I am having trouble getting JEBs to do anything magic
> when downloaded on the XO. I click on the link and... nothing happens
> :-)

Possibly #7247, make sure you are running Browse-92

Daniel


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Journal Entry Bundle - autoactivation?

[Martin Langhoff]

On Joyride 2129 I am having trouble getting JEBs to do anything magic
when downloaded on the XO. I click on the link and... nothing happens
:-)

I don't have it on the public interwebs, but this is what the headers look like:

GET -Sed 
http://192.168.1.3//ds-restore/CSN7470319B/datastore-current/store/8cd42e1f-d898-4964-872a-1085a6ab075e
GET 
http://192.168.1.3//ds-restore/CSN7470319B/datastore-current/store/8cd42e1f-d898-4964-872a-1085a6ab075e
--> 200 OK
Connection: close
Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:49:02 GMT
Server: Apache/2.2.6 (Fedora)
Content-Length: 11750
Content-Type: application/vnd.olpc-journal-entry
Client-Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 16:49:02 GMT
Client-Peer: 192.168.1.3:80
Client-Response-Num: 1
X-Powered-By: PHP/5.2.4

and the file itself is attached - a tiny TurtleArt document.

cheers,



m
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Sugar Almanac Recent Updates - UI, Logging and More

[Faisal Anwar]

Hello All,

Below are some updates that have been made to the sugar almanac. Please keep
feedback coming as well as any requests for areas that need more
documentation.


   - 1 Class: Alert
  - 1.1 How do I create a simple alert
message?
  - 1.2 How do I create an alert message with a button that allows a
  user response to the
alert?
   - 2 Class: 
ConfirmationAlert
  - 2.1 What is special about a confirmation alert and how do I use it
  in my 
activity?
   - 3 Class: 
TimeoutAlert
  - 3.1 What is special about a TimeoutAlert and how do I use it in my
  
activity?
   - 4 Class: 
NotifyAler
  - 4.1 What is special about a NotifyAlert and how do I use it in my
  
activity?


   - sugar.graphics.icon 
   - sugar.graphics.notebook


   - sugar.logger 
   - Notes on using Python Standard Logging in
Sugar


   - 1 Helper Functions
  - 1.1 How are mime types represented in sugar and how do I get a list
  of the basic generic mime
types?
  - 1.2 Given a specific file, how do I figure out what its mime type
  
is?
  - 1.3 How do I access the description of a specific mime
type?
  - 1.4 How do I get the primary extension that is standard for a given
  mime 
type?
   - 2 Class: ObjectType


Faisal
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Re: joyride 2128 smoketest

[Erik Garrison]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:53:20AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> > We already ship one on the laptop (yum)!  Perhaps we could be using it
> > to handle our activity updates?  If the problem is that yum is slow and
> > awful, then maybe we need to start thinking about using apt.
> 
> Here are several problems you might think about:
> 
> 1) We'd like people to be able to package activities on a wide variety
> of systems including on Windows. To the best of my knowledge, it
> currently requires nontrivial Unix expertise to produce most Unix
> packaging formats.
> 

I suggest we assist in .xo -> .rpm / .deb and obtain the benefits of a
package manager on whatever fraction of the XOs run linux.  If we retain
.xo files and an installer for Windows, then we are doing as well as we
can be expected to on Windows.  At present are we even sure that
Activities are going to run on Windows?  Activity maintainers will have
to port them.

> 2) We'd like people to be able to install activities with relatively low
> privilege -- in particular, without root privilege. Linux packaging
> formats and guidelines often assume that the person installing packages
> has access to root authority (or is able to do something comparable like
> chroot + fakeroot). What can we do about this? For example:
> 

By default XO users have access to root privelages (Terminal + su).  Why
is it not acceptable for them to have access in the context of activity
installation and upgrade?

>   * RPM supports relocation and (for some packages) installation as an
> unprivileged user. However, privilege is needed in order to update
> the system rpm database. Perhaps we could teach RPM how to maintain
> two databases; one privileged and one not?
> 

The typical use case for such an arrangement is a multi-user system in
which users would like to install custom software without disturbing the
system at large.  In the case of the XO there are no other users.  The
actions of the principal user affect only that user.

>   * Alternately, we could imagine running activities in a copy-on-write
> (CoW) filesystem (union-mounted, FUSE, vserver, ...) with either a
> false sense of privilege (fakeroot) or a restricted form of real
> privilege (vserver, selinux, ...). Then we could install packages
> for activities which need them with relatively little hassle. 
>  
>   - How could we share disk usage costs between such activities?
> 
>   - Could we ever update the packages inside these containers?

This would be very messy.

I conclude from your comments that our current security model
discourages the use of existing package-based Linux software
distribution systems.  I find it interesting that these same systems are
crucial components in generic 'soft' Linux security models.

I suggest that, if we can adjust our security model to accept it, a
package system could be used for both software installation and updates
and the resolution of security concerns via security-oriented updates.

How are we planning on providing security updates?  Do you agree that a
package manager-based solution is tenable?

-Erik
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8.1 Kernel for touchpad testing

[Deepak Saxena]

Hi,

Richard pointed out on IRC that that our largest userbase is not running
Joyride builds and that we should provide the updated touchpad driver 
that we are planning on shipping with 8.2 to increase our test 
coverage.
 
I have built an RPM with the 2.6.22 kernel + driver backport that folks 
running <= 703 can use for this purpose:

http://dev.laptop.org/~dsaxena/kernel-2.6.22-20080710.1.olpc.0.i586.rpm

See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Kernel#Installing_OLPC_kernel_RPMs for 
information on how to install this update.

Please provide feedback on the mouse behaviour if you decide to 
install this.

Thanks,
~Deepak

-- 
Deepak Saxena <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: Tuesday Release Meeting - Notes

[Sameer Verma]

Greg Smith wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Great notes! Short and informative. I don't you or Gobby gets the 
> credit, but thanks regardless.
>
> Two suggestions for next week's meeting.
>
> 1 - Let's take agenda items in advance and set the agenda in advance. We 
> can do a brief agenda review but I hope we can spend most of the meeting 
> on substantive work and not setting the agenda.
>
> 2 - Let's roll over AI status as the first item each week. Once they are 
> done, you can put a brief note in the minutes saying done and adding a 
> link as needed. If they are still open they go on the open AI list until 
> t hey are closed one way or another.
>
> I have one big one for next weeks agenda:
> Backward compatibility of activities.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg S
>
> **
> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:35:49 -0400
> From: Chris Ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Reminder: Tuesday Release & Wednesday Software Meetings
>   -- 2:00 PM EDT, #olpc-meeting on irc.freenode.org
> To: Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi,
>
> > We'd like to try out using Gobby to record the agenda and minutes
> > for Tuesday's release meeting.  If you have an XO and will be
> > joining the meeting, please run "yum install gobby" beforehand, or
> > "apt-get install gobby" on an Ubuntu laptop.  The server will be at
> > pullcord.laptop.org.
>
> And here are our minutes and action items:
>
> Attendance:
>
> cjb cscott erikg dsd pgf dsaxena tomeu ypod dgilmore bemasc bert
> Charlie (Celkan) Kim mstone Gregorio unmadindu walter martin_xsa
> eben
>
>
> Minutes:
>
> * Ypod mentioned that it's hard to get the hang of Koji.  We agreed,
>and offered to sit down with him to explain.  Cjb asserted that a
>package being outside of Koji should not impede that package making
>it into a build for testing via the dropbox system.
>
>AI: cjb and mstone to meet with ypod.
>
>
> * Trac process: In response to ticket workflow questions (specifically:
>when should tickets get closed), Michael suggested the following
>process through Trac "next action" states:
>
>  code -> package -> add to build -> developer test in build
>
>After testing, the developer tags the bug with the results, e.g.:
>  joyride-2126:-or   joyride-2126:+
>
>if +, the developer moves the ticket's "next action" to "finalize"
>QA will then close the ticket at some later stage, perhaps after
>making relevant additions to the release notes.
>
>AI: Joe will call a Trac meeting to discuss this later this week.
>
>
> * The changelog tools we have aren't very good.  We should improve them.
>
>AI: Chris, Michael and Dennis to meet to work on changelog tools.
>
>
> * Which build should be used for testing?  Joyride-2128 -- earlier
>builds lost olpc-netlog, which is required for testing.
>
>
> * Metrics for "release readiness".  cscott sent mail to devel recapping
>the "state of the update.1" email
>
>AI: Chris to help with finding a metric we can use to define
>release-readiness, such as (but better than) number of
>blocker bugs open.
>
>
> * Better user feedback from the field?  David Cavallo wants to talk
>to us about what the learning team is up to later this week.
>
>   

Hi,

This feedback will be *very* important. Thus far, majority of the focus 
has been on the development perspective (bugs, code, patches, etc) but 
not as much on the use perspective. Use perspective typically involves 
Usability (UI centric), Productivity (task centric) and Satisfaction 
(user centric) models. In most enterprise environments one can float a 
survey instrument with Likert scales to gather quantitative data for 
analysis, but in our case, we cannot expect 5 year olds to answer on a 
scale of 1 to 7. So, the methodologies will have to be more qualitative 
and interview driven.

Additionally, if we can come up with a consistent methodology (or a 
combination of methodologies) for gathering such feedback, we will have 
strong referential basis for comparing implementations across different 
countries.

Sameer

-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/


> * Greg brought up there not being a release contract for touchpad
>improvements.  The touchpad driver change is now present in latest
>joyrides; needs testing.
>
>
> * Status of 8.2.0.
>
>AI: Michael to send out 8.2.0 status e-mail by Friday.  Should
>identify a "test candidate" and maybe a short explanation of
>what to expect from it.
>
>AI: Joe to test joyride-2128, report back.
>
>
> * How will we write release notes for 8.2?  Mstone, Greg, Kim and Jim
>will do so together here:
>http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_8.2.0_Software_Release_Notes
>
>

Re: Tuesday Release Meeting - Notes

[Sameer Verma]

Greg Smith wrote:
> Hi Chris,
>
> Great notes! Short and informative. I don't you or Gobby gets the 
> credit, but thanks regardless.
>
> Two suggestions for next week's meeting.
>
> 1 - Let's take agenda items in advance and set the agenda in advance. We 
> can do a brief agenda review but I hope we can spend most of the meeting 
> on substantive work and not setting the agenda.
>
> 2 - Let's roll over AI status as the first item each week. Once they are 
> done, you can put a brief note in the minutes saying done and adding a 
> link as needed. If they are still open they go on the open AI list until 
> t hey are closed one way or another.
>
> I have one big one for next weeks agenda:
> Backward compatibility of activities.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg S
>
> **
> Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:35:49 -0400
> From: Chris Ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Reminder: Tuesday Release & Wednesday Software Meetings
>   -- 2:00 PM EDT, #olpc-meeting on irc.freenode.org
> To: Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org
> Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> Hi,
>
> > We'd like to try out using Gobby to record the agenda and minutes
> > for Tuesday's release meeting.  If you have an XO and will be
> > joining the meeting, please run "yum install gobby" beforehand, or
> > "apt-get install gobby" on an Ubuntu laptop.  The server will be at
> > pullcord.laptop.org.
>
> And here are our minutes and action items:
>
> Attendance:
>
> cjb cscott erikg dsd pgf dsaxena tomeu ypod dgilmore bemasc bert
> Charlie (Celkan) Kim mstone Gregorio unmadindu walter martin_xsa
> eben
>
>
> Minutes:
>
> * Ypod mentioned that it's hard to get the hang of Koji.  We agreed,
>and offered to sit down with him to explain.  Cjb asserted that a
>package being outside of Koji should not impede that package making
>it into a build for testing via the dropbox system.
>
>AI: cjb and mstone to meet with ypod.
>
>
> * Trac process: In response to ticket workflow questions (specifically:
>when should tickets get closed), Michael suggested the following
>process through Trac "next action" states:
>
>  code -> package -> add to build -> developer test in build
>
>After testing, the developer tags the bug with the results, e.g.:
>  joyride-2126:-or   joyride-2126:+
>
>if +, the developer moves the ticket's "next action" to "finalize"
>QA will then close the ticket at some later stage, perhaps after
>making relevant additions to the release notes.
>
>AI: Joe will call a Trac meeting to discuss this later this week.
>
>
> * The changelog tools we have aren't very good.  We should improve them.
>
>AI: Chris, Michael and Dennis to meet to work on changelog tools.
>
>
> * Which build should be used for testing?  Joyride-2128 -- earlier
>builds lost olpc-netlog, which is required for testing.
>
>
> * Metrics for "release readiness".  cscott sent mail to devel recapping
>the "state of the update.1" email
>
>AI: Chris to help with finding a metric we can use to define
>release-readiness, such as (but better than) number of
>blocker bugs open.
>
>   
Hi,

If the "release readiness" metric is a composite of multiple attributes 
such as blocker bugs, documentation, integration, etc. then a weighted 
scoring approach will be more comprehensive. This approach is used by 
Open Source Maturity Model (http://www.navicasoft.com/pages/osmm.htm) 
and Business Readiness Rating (http://www.openbrr.org).

Of course, either of these models may not be suitable "as-is" for our 
purposes. In that case, we can define our own attributes (or modify 
existing ones) and build our own model. The hardest part in using such 
scoring models is in determining the weights for each attribute. Weight 
implies importance and contribution to the composite metric. In case of 
attributes such as blocker bugs, we have a number to plug in. In case of 
others such as documentation, the assessment may be a bit more difficult.

We have used OSMM at SF State University in our "Managing Open Source" 
class (http://opensource.sfsu.edu/node/40) quite successfully. Its 
fairly comprehensive and at the same time not too detail oriented.

cheers,

Sameer

-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/


> * Better user feedback from the field?  David Cavallo wants to talk
>to us about what the learning team is up to later this week.
>
>
> * Greg brought up there not being a release contract for touchpad
>improvements.  The touchpad driver change is now present in latest
>joyrides; needs testing.
>
>
> * Status of 8.2.0.
>
>AI: Michael to send out 8.2.0 status e-mail by Friday.  Should
>identify a "test candidate" and maybe a short explanation of
>what t

Re: Tuesday Release Meeting - Notes

[Greg Smith]

Hi Chris,

Great notes! Short and informative. I don't you or Gobby gets the 
credit, but thanks regardless.

Two suggestions for next week's meeting.

1 - Let's take agenda items in advance and set the agenda in advance. We 
can do a brief agenda review but I hope we can spend most of the meeting 
on substantive work and not setting the agenda.

2 - Let's roll over AI status as the first item each week. Once they are 
done, you can put a brief note in the minutes saying done and adding a 
link as needed. If they are still open they go on the open AI list until 
t hey are closed one way or another.

I have one big one for next weeks agenda:
Backward compatibility of activities.

Thanks,

Greg S

**
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:35:49 -0400
From: Chris Ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Reminder: Tuesday Release & Wednesday Software Meetings
-- 2:00 PM EDT, #olpc-meeting on irc.freenode.org
To: Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hi,

> We'd like to try out using Gobby to record the agenda and minutes
> for Tuesday's release meeting.  If you have an XO and will be
> joining the meeting, please run "yum install gobby" beforehand, or
> "apt-get install gobby" on an Ubuntu laptop.  The server will be at
> pullcord.laptop.org.

And here are our minutes and action items:

Attendance:

cjb cscott erikg dsd pgf dsaxena tomeu ypod dgilmore bemasc bert
Charlie (Celkan) Kim mstone Gregorio unmadindu walter martin_xsa
eben


Minutes:

* Ypod mentioned that it's hard to get the hang of Koji.  We agreed,
   and offered to sit down with him to explain.  Cjb asserted that a
   package being outside of Koji should not impede that package making
   it into a build for testing via the dropbox system.

   AI: cjb and mstone to meet with ypod.


* Trac process: In response to ticket workflow questions (specifically:
   when should tickets get closed), Michael suggested the following
   process through Trac "next action" states:

 code -> package -> add to build -> developer test in build

   After testing, the developer tags the bug with the results, e.g.:
 joyride-2126:-or   joyride-2126:+

   if +, the developer moves the ticket's "next action" to "finalize"
   QA will then close the ticket at some later stage, perhaps after
   making relevant additions to the release notes.

   AI: Joe will call a Trac meeting to discuss this later this week.


* The changelog tools we have aren't very good.  We should improve them.

   AI: Chris, Michael and Dennis to meet to work on changelog tools.


* Which build should be used for testing?  Joyride-2128 -- earlier
   builds lost olpc-netlog, which is required for testing.


* Metrics for "release readiness".  cscott sent mail to devel recapping
   the "state of the update.1" email

   AI: Chris to help with finding a metric we can use to define
   release-readiness, such as (but better than) number of
   blocker bugs open.


* Better user feedback from the field?  David Cavallo wants to talk
   to us about what the learning team is up to later this week.


* Greg brought up there not being a release contract for touchpad
   improvements.  The touchpad driver change is now present in latest
   joyrides; needs testing.


* Status of 8.2.0.

   AI: Michael to send out 8.2.0 status e-mail by Friday.  Should
   identify a "test candidate" and maybe a short explanation of
   what to expect from it.

   AI: Joe to test joyride-2128, report back.


* How will we write release notes for 8.2?  Mstone, Greg, Kim and Jim
   will do so together here:
   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_8.2.0_Software_Release_Notes


Thanks,

- Chris.
-- Chris Ball <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Re: 8.2.0 Release Notes

[Martin Langhoff]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:55 AM, Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Martin,
> You have to help us keep up with the latest stable release of XS on this
> template. It says 160, but isn't the latest stable 163?

Yes. It wasn't meant to be this long-lived, but 163 has some fixes on
top of 160. Mark 163 as "stable".

cheers,



martin
-- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: joyride 2128 smoketest

[Daniel Drake]

On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 21:06 +0200, Morgan Collett wrote:
> 2008/7/9 Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > 1 - Is there anyway to ensure backward compatibility of activities (the
> > 8.1.1 activities will work with 8.2)?  -- seems like a long shot to me.
> 
> My 2c worth here... There haven't been API breaks for activities. I've
> had to do nothing to my activities to keep them working from 8.1.0 to
> joyride current.

I have started documenting v8.2.0 activity incompatibilities here:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Notes/8.2.0#Activity_Incompatibilities

Daniel


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Re: 8.2.0 Release Notes

[Kim Quirk]

I added the 'Stable Release' template the Release pages so we don't have to
answer the question -- what is the latest stable release. We should use 8.1
instead of 703; and I will try to get the 8.1.1 signed off so that is the
latest stable...

Martin,
You have to help us keep up with the latest stable release of XS on this
template. It says 160, but isn't the latest stable 163?

Kim

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:47 AM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Hi Eben,
>
> I was thinking that this page http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Releases
>
> is a short and sweet overview of all current release. It should answer
> questions like:
> I saw a reference to 8.1.0 on a list, what is that?
> I want to upgrade to the latest release, which one is current?
>
> It should have
> - status. e.g. Released, Under development, and maybe a more granular
> under development breakdown by Milestone one I get some milestones agreed.
>
> - link to release notes
>
> - Brief explanation of what/who it was designed for and why you may want
> to use it.
>
> Then for more detail on each "Released" image you go to the release
> notes. For more detail on "under development" images you go to its
> working page (e.g. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/8.2.0). Then the working
> page can be retired and the release notes becomes the go to link for
> releases info once its released.
>
> I hope that fits what you are suggesting. Let me know what you think.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg S
>
> Eben Eliason wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:07 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >> Hi Eben,
> >>
> >> Thanks for the link, very useful!
> >> FYI I have a Releases page at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Releases
> >
> > I saw this.  I'm wondering how it's meant to be differentiated from
> > eg. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/8.2.0.  Perhaps we should merge the
> > latter into the Releases page.  Perhaps instead we should make the
> > Releases page an index (akin to Release_Notes) and then use pages eg.
> > Releases/8.2.0 to detail each release from now on.  Perhaps we do that
> > and also rename your current Releases page to Release_Status, and make
> > sure we *only* put developer oriented status updates there, and
> > reserve Releases for an index of all releases. Thoughts?
> >
> > - Eben
> >
> ___
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>
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Re: joyride 2128 smoketest

[Michael Stone]

> We already ship one on the laptop (yum)!  Perhaps we could be using it
> to handle our activity updates?  If the problem is that yum is slow and
> awful, then maybe we need to start thinking about using apt.

Here are several problems you might think about:

1) We'd like people to be able to package activities on a wide variety
of systems including on Windows. To the best of my knowledge, it
currently requires nontrivial Unix expertise to produce most Unix
packaging formats.

2) We'd like people to be able to install activities with relatively low
privilege -- in particular, without root privilege. Linux packaging
formats and guidelines often assume that the person installing packages
has access to root authority (or is able to do something comparable like
chroot + fakeroot). What can we do about this? For example:

  * RPM supports relocation and (for some packages) installation as an
unprivileged user. However, privilege is needed in order to update
the system rpm database. Perhaps we could teach RPM how to maintain
two databases; one privileged and one not?

  * Alternately, we could imagine running activities in a copy-on-write
(CoW) filesystem (union-mounted, FUSE, vserver, ...) with either a
false sense of privilege (fakeroot) or a restricted form of real
privilege (vserver, selinux, ...). Then we could install packages
for activities which need them with relatively little hassle. 
 
  - How could we share disk usage costs between such activities?

  - Could we ever update the packages inside these containers?

Regards,

Michael
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Re: 8.2.0 Release Notes

[Greg Smith]

Hi Eben,

I was thinking that this page http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Releases

is a short and sweet overview of all current release. It should answer 
questions like:
I saw a reference to 8.1.0 on a list, what is that?
I want to upgrade to the latest release, which one is current?

It should have
- status. e.g. Released, Under development, and maybe a more granular 
under development breakdown by Milestone one I get some milestones agreed.

- link to release notes

- Brief explanation of what/who it was designed for and why you may want 
to use it.

Then for more detail on each "Released" image you go to the release 
notes. For more detail on "under development" images you go to its 
working page (e.g. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/8.2.0). Then the working 
page can be retired and the release notes becomes the go to link for 
releases info once its released.

I hope that fits what you are suggesting. Let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Greg S

Eben Eliason wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:07 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi Eben,
>>
>> Thanks for the link, very useful!
>> FYI I have a Releases page at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Releases
> 
> I saw this.  I'm wondering how it's meant to be differentiated from
> eg. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/8.2.0.  Perhaps we should merge the
> latter into the Releases page.  Perhaps instead we should make the
> Releases page an index (akin to Release_Notes) and then use pages eg.
> Releases/8.2.0 to detail each release from now on.  Perhaps we do that
> and also rename your current Releases page to Release_Status, and make
> sure we *only* put developer oriented status updates there, and
> reserve Releases for an index of all releases. Thoughts?
> 
> - Eben
> 
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Re: No display

[John Watlington]

Please send information like this (including the serial number of
the affected machine) to [EMAIL PROTECTED], so that it enters our
tracking system.   Please indicate that no further action is needed...

You can test out:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Troubleshooting_Guide

What build do your laptops have on them when they arrive ?

wad

On Jul 10, 2008, at 1:28 AM, pradosh Kharel wrote:

> Just for your information, I had an XO that did not give out a  
> display. I tried changing the screen with a working one but that  
> did not help. However, the XO worked fine when I switched the  
> motherboard with a known good one. It seems something was wrong  
> with the motherboard itself.
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Rx Invalid Frag numbers from /sbin/iwconfig msh0

[Marcus Leech]

Does anyone here know precisely what the numbers related to Rx invalid 
frag (/sbin/iwconfig msh0) actually mean on the XO?

I'm seeing very large numbers--with large deltas.  Sometimes as much as 
2 of these per second.

Cheers
Marcus

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Re: 8.2.0 Release Notes

[Kim Quirk]

We've had a couple of discussions about Release Notes and Feature lists.

Here is my proposal:

Feature lists -- I created a 'XO_Base_Features' page (which should keep the
running list of features the XO supports as of the latest stable release). I
added the "as of release 8.1.1" to the top of this page.

After 8.2 gets to be a stable release, then its features should be added the
Base Feature doc and the note "as of Release 8.2".

Since there are many people working on docs that claim to be the 8.2 new
feature set, I would like to recommend that Greg's 8.2 Release Notes
contains the source data for the 8.2 new features. Everyone else should
point to that and he will make sure this is kept up to date.

I would like to point all other pages that claim to be the new features for
8.2, to Greg's Release notes.

Will that work?

[Michael, your work on 8.2.0 New Features was really a list of Base
features, so I used that as the text for XO_Base_Features.
8.2.0_New_Features should point to Greg's release notes]

Greg - Please tell us when you have a good set of 8.2.0 new features in the
release notes.

Thanks!
Kim

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:28 PM, Eben Eliason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:07 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > Hi Eben,
> >
> > Thanks for the link, very useful!
> > FYI I have a Releases page at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Releases
>
> I saw this.  I'm wondering how it's meant to be differentiated from
> eg. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/8.2.0.  Perhaps we should merge the
> latter into the Releases page.  Perhaps instead we should make the
> Releases page an index (akin to Release_Notes) and then use pages eg.
> Releases/8.2.0 to detail each release from now on.  Perhaps we do that
> and also rename your current Releases page to Release_Status, and make
> sure we *only* put developer oriented status updates there, and
> reserve Releases for an index of all releases. Thoughts?
>
> - Eben
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Re: Easiest way to run the latest activities

[Morgan Collett]

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 11:35, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Am 10.07.2008 um 10:44 schrieb Morgan Collett:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 21:31, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Am 09.07.2008 um 20:07 schrieb Sayamindu Dasgupta:
>>>
 On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 23:11 +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:
>>
>> The easiest way, perhaps, to run the bleeding edge version of
>> Sugar on
>> an XO is to run the latest joyride. Is there a similar way to run
>> the
>> latest activities on an XO ?
>
> I use:
> http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-activities.py
>
> see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bert%27s_script
>

 Hmm.. for some activities
 http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/sucrose-activities.py seem to provide
 more recent stuff.
>>>
>>> Really? That would mean the latest Sugar release is not in Joyride,
>>> which would be a problem.
>>
>> Bert's joyride-activities script seems to pull from
>> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/repos/joyride/, which is very out of
>> date. For example, it has Chat-37 as the latest, but Chat-42 has been
>> released.
>>
>> How do we get activity updates in there?
>
>
> By the normal Joyride procedure (put the .xo into your ~/public_rpms):
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Build_system#Instructions_for_Use

Ah, since the activities were removed from the build images I stopped
doing that. I'll do that again.

Morgan
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Re: Easiest way to run the latest activities

[Simon Schampijer]

Bert Freudenberg wrote:
> Am 10.07.2008 um 10:44 schrieb Morgan Collett:
> 
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 21:31, Bert Freudenberg  
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Am 09.07.2008 um 20:07 schrieb Sayamindu Dasgupta:
>>>
 On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
 wrote:
> On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 23:11 +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:
>> The easiest way, perhaps, to run the bleeding edge version of
>> Sugar on
>> an XO is to run the latest joyride. Is there a similar way to run
>> the
>> latest activities on an XO ?
> I use:
> http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-activities.py
>
> see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bert%27s_script
>
 Hmm.. for some activities
 http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/sucrose-activities.py seem to provide
 more recent stuff.
>>> Really? That would mean the latest Sugar release is not in Joyride,
>>> which would be a problem.
>> Bert's joyride-activities script seems to pull from
>> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/repos/joyride/, which is very out of
>> date. For example, it has Chat-37 as the latest, but Chat-42 has been
>> released.
>>
>> How do we get activity updates in there?
> 
> 
> By the normal Joyride procedure (put the .xo into your ~/public_rpms):
> 
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Build_system#Instructions_for_Use
> 
> - Bert -

I updated the script for the sucrose activities (included as well Record). But 
obviously the activities not included in Sucrose won't be updated with that 
script.

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/ReleaseTeam/Releases/Sucrose/0.81.4#Instructions_to_test_in_olpc_joyride

But as these are all workarounds i guess we should not spend too much time on 
that...

Best,
Simon
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New joyride build 2139

[Build Announcer v2]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2139

Changes in build 2139 from build: 2136

Size delta: 0.00M

-kernel 2.6.25-20080709.2.olpc.5c6699e1a020620
+kernel 2.6.25-20080710.3.olpc.14813f826d6ccaf

--
This mail was automatically generated
See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs
See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a 
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Re: Easiest way to run the latest activities

[Bert Freudenberg]

Am 10.07.2008 um 10:44 schrieb Morgan Collett:

> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 21:31, Bert Freudenberg  
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Am 09.07.2008 um 20:07 schrieb Sayamindu Dasgupta:
>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
>>> wrote:
 On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 23:11 +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:
> The easiest way, perhaps, to run the bleeding edge version of
> Sugar on
> an XO is to run the latest joyride. Is there a similar way to run
> the
> latest activities on an XO ?

 I use:
 http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-activities.py

 see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bert%27s_script

>>>
>>> Hmm.. for some activities
>>> http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/sucrose-activities.py seem to provide
>>> more recent stuff.
>>
>> Really? That would mean the latest Sugar release is not in Joyride,
>> which would be a problem.
>
> Bert's joyride-activities script seems to pull from
> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/repos/joyride/, which is very out of
> date. For example, it has Chat-37 as the latest, but Chat-42 has been
> released.
>
> How do we get activity updates in there?


By the normal Joyride procedure (put the .xo into your ~/public_rpms):

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Build_system#Instructions_for_Use

- Bert -


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Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?

[Korakurider]

Hi Sayamindu.

On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 4:37 PM, Sayamindu Dasgupta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello Korakurider,
> Thanks for your input. I have put up a basic document at
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Workflow Comments and brickbats
> are welcome :-).

  Thank you, this is handy and very useful as a base of further discussion !
  My comments follow:

  a) Could you show the exact schedule for jobs  on Wiki or some page
on Pootle server?
  Without that knowledge, I have been checking everyday when POT is
merged to PO actually after every time I notice update to the POT on
etoys-notify list.

**  It would make our life easier if timestamp and participant for
the last interesting events ( at least, and history hopefully) are
shown on Pootle screen. (that make it like "real portal" :-)
  + POT generation
  + merge POT to POs
  + change to translations/fuzzy flags of each POs
  + change to suggestion for each POs
  + the latest commit of each POs to repo
  + upload/merge (if it really works :-)

 At this time the person who did them only knows what have been
done actually, that make team work difficult.

  b) As asked in another thread; from this picture I can't see where
the POT included in XO bundle came from.
  and which is the master of POT that is being linked from wiki
page for each activities.

  c) We have seen too many incidents that translator tried to
upload/merge POs (especially etoys. po :-<) by himself with Pootle
interface and Pootle went down.  Do you really want to support the
functionality right now? (though it might work for POs other than
etoys.po)


> Regarding you questions - please see inline :-)
thanks, this clears !
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Now, my turn to ask :-)  I don't know who is the right one to ask though...
>>
>> (1) They say SugarLabs is upstream of Sugar software and OLPC is one of 
>> distro.
>> Then, which POs are still "owned" by OLPC?
>> (Packaging/Pootle/Activation Server/OLPC Web site projects are obvious
>> :-)
>> For Sugar. will commit from Pootle go to upstream(SugarLab)  or distro(OLPC)?
>> Which will POT come from ?
>>
>
> My personal opinion (I am open to suggestions) that all translations
> should go directly upstream as much as possible. Distro specific
> efforts for translations (unless you are talking about distro specific
> tools, etc) have been badly bitten in the past.
   I agree, while agreement with between OLPC and SL would be needed.
   Note they haven't mentioned about translation of software in SL
Wiki, that confused me.


>> (2) SugarLabs have declared string freeze for 8.2.  But I am not sure
>> specifically which POT/POs are governed by their declaration.
>> sugar.po/sugar-base.po/sugar-toolkit.po come to mind.
>> And I think other activities in XO-Core (that are also included in
>> their software stack as "Demo activities") aren't governed. right?
>>
>
> I think I answered this.
>
> * sugar-base
> * sugar-toolkit
> * sugar
> *  chat-activity
> * web-activity
> * read-activity
> * log-activity
> * write-activity
> * calculate-activity
> * terminal-activity
> * pippy-activity
> * etoys-activity
>
> I will probably try to arrange the projects in our Pootle server at
> some point to reflect this.
>
>> (3) OLPC have stopped to bundle activities with base software.  Now
>> release cycle for them doesn't have to be aligned to XO software from
>> OLPC's point of view.  But I think It would be still better to try to
>> let them aligned for refreshing translations.
>> Note that even if the package is enough mature, additional build would
>> be needed to pull new translations (new languages for instance).
>> Right now it is hard to know when my updated translations for some
>> activities will be pulled into the packages :-<
>>
>
> For the sugar stuff - expect a following of the release cycles. For
> other stuff - there is really no way to know. However, I would like to
> request developers to announce releases a few days in advance in the
> localization list, so that translators can prioritize and/or commit
> appropriately.
my point exactly.  I really hope to see such collaboration.

Cheers,
/Korakurider

>
> Thanks,
> Sayamindu
>
> --
> Sayamindu Dasgupta
> [http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings]
>
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Re: Easiest way to run the latest activities

[Morgan Collett]

On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 21:31, Bert Freudenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Am 09.07.2008 um 20:07 schrieb Sayamindu Dasgupta:
>
>> On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Daniel Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 2008-07-09 at 23:11 +0530, Sayamindu Dasgupta wrote:
 The easiest way, perhaps, to run the bleeding edge version of
 Sugar on
 an XO is to run the latest joyride. Is there a similar way to run
 the
 latest activities on an XO ?
>>>
>>> I use:
>>> http://dev.laptop.org/~bert/joyride-activities.py
>>>
>>> see http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bert%27s_script
>>>
>>
>> Hmm.. for some activities
>> http://dev.laptop.org/~erikos/sucrose-activities.py seem to provide
>> more recent stuff.
>
> Really? That would mean the latest Sugar release is not in Joyride,
> which would be a problem.

Bert's joyride-activities script seems to pull from
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/repos/joyride/, which is very out of
date. For example, it has Chat-37 as the latest, but Chat-42 has been
released.

How do we get activity updates in there?

Morgan
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Re: [Localization] How do we manage translation effort in Release, process/roadmap?

[Sayamindu Dasgupta]

Hello Korakurider,
Thanks for your input. I have put up a basic document at
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Localization/Workflow Comments and brickbats
are welcome :-).
Regarding you questions - please see inline :-)


On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 5:51 PM, Korakurider <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Greg Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Now, my turn to ask :-)  I don't know who is the right one to ask though...
>
> (1) They say SugarLabs is upstream of Sugar software and OLPC is one of 
> distro.
> Then, which POs are still "owned" by OLPC?
> (Packaging/Pootle/Activation Server/OLPC Web site projects are obvious
> :-)
> For Sugar. will commit from Pootle go to upstream(SugarLab)  or distro(OLPC)?
> Which will POT come from ?
>

My personal opinion (I am open to suggestions) that all translations
should go directly upstream as much as possible. Distro specific
efforts for translations (unless you are talking about distro specific
tools, etc) have been badly bitten in the past.

> (2) SugarLabs have declared string freeze for 8.2.  But I am not sure
> specifically which POT/POs are governed by their declaration.
> sugar.po/sugar-base.po/sugar-toolkit.po come to mind.
> And I think other activities in XO-Core (that are also included in
> their software stack as "Demo activities") aren't governed. right?
>

I think I answered this.

* sugar-base
* sugar-toolkit
* sugar
*  chat-activity
* web-activity
* read-activity
* log-activity
* write-activity
* calculate-activity
* terminal-activity
* pippy-activity
* etoys-activity

I will probably try to arrange the projects in our Pootle server at
some point to reflect this.

> (3) OLPC have stopped to bundle activities with base software.  Now
> release cycle for them doesn't have to be aligned to XO software from
> OLPC's point of view.  But I think It would be still better to try to
> let them aligned for refreshing translations.
> Note that even if the package is enough mature, additional build would
> be needed to pull new translations (new languages for instance).
> Right now it is hard to know when my updated translations for some
> activities will be pulled into the packages :-<
>

For the sugar stuff - expect a following of the release cycles. For
other stuff - there is really no way to know. However, I would like to
request developers to announce releases a few days in advance in the
localization list, so that translators can prioritize and/or commit
appropriately.

Thanks,
Sayamindu

-- 
Sayamindu Dasgupta
[http://sayamindu.randomink.org/ramblings]
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