Re: A working TuxPaint-2.xo for 8.1 and 8.2, how to update the wiki?

2008-09-16 Thread Ton van Overbeek
Albert Cahalan wrote:
 Ton van Overbeek writes:

   
 This version (TuxPaint-2) of TuxPaint for the OLPC-XO fixes several issues
 with the original version (TuxPaint-1) by Albert Calahan.
 

 Uh, are you intending to take over? I haven't seen any discussion on
 the tuxpaint-devel mailing list, on #tux4kids, or elsewhere.

 I have been working on a TuxPaint-2.xo for a while now. Am I supposed
 to abandon that effort, release it anyway, skip a version number...?
   

 BTW, the name is spelled Cahalan.
   
Albert, first my apologies for misspelling your name.
I have no intent in taking over, but am willing to help. I had a 
personal need to get TuxPaint working
in Dutch on the XO for my grandson, since he will get my G1G1 XO next 
month when we are in Europe.
Since the Dutch translation was far from complete in TuxPaint-1.xo and 
the non English versions were
not working out of the box (see e.g. 
http://olpcnews.com/forum/index.php?topic=1049.0 item #4) and
other issues like changing the bundle name (no more hyphens allowed, see 
the discussion
on http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Tux_Paint) I decided to rebuild 
starting from the current CVS
version and your additions (sugarize + libsugar) in the original.
Because I thought the end result might interest more people I announced 
it on the devel list.
Since my version is now 'out in the wild', I am afraid you will have to 
go to TuxPaint-3.xo
for your next version.
  
   
 The following issues are fixed in this release:
 - Internationalization works out of the box. In TuxPaint-1 there was a typo
   which caused TuxPaint to look in a parallel tree under TuxPaint.activity.
   (note the trailing dot) for the localized files (.mo and fonts).
 

 I believe this was fixed when I checked in some Makefile changes.
 I have not rebuilt the *.xo since I fixed the Makefile.
   
I could not get your Makefile fix to work. The code still looked for 
localization information
in ../TuxPaint.activity. (with trailing dot) due to the DEFS definition 
in the Makefile.
See my changes to the olpc: target in tuxpaint/Makefile (explicit 
defintion of LOCALE_PREFIX).
 BTW, perhaps I'm being too picky, but I'm trying to get Tux Paint
 sources in CVS to support building a *.xo with one command and a
 minimum of hacks. This is a good part of the reason for the delay.
 TuxPaint-1.xo is not very reproducable; plenty of manual work was
 required to create it.

   
I have followed your example and to build my version start in 
TuxPaint.activity/ and then
do 'make olpc'. See TuxPaint.activity/Makefile and tuxpaint/Makefile. 
This assumes
you are building on an XO (see also below).
 - Added the needed libpaper.so in the bundle and modified sugarize.c to add
   LD_LIBRARY_PATH so tuxpaint can find the library.
 

 I didn't do that for several reasons:

 1. license issues
 2. version control issues
 3. can't set up /etc with the right printer info

 If libpaper isn't in the base system, then I don't want to use it.
 I have two other choices. I can rip out printing. I can revert to
 some older code which directly generates postscript.

 Assuming that printing support is even desirable, reverting to the
 old code (plus bug fix) looks best. That way, there is little need
 to worry about paper sizes.

   
Agree with your reasoning. For the XO it is probably best to disable the 
priuter support
completely. The current code requires libpaper and I did not want to
remove the printer support code, since I am not that familiar with the 
TuxPaint code (yet).
Hence, the easy way out was to include libpaper.so in the bundle.
Since it is available as fedora-9 rpm I did not expect any license 
issues for libpaper.
 Other changes:
 - Added support for svg (scalable vector graphics) stamps.
 

 Which library? Which *-devel packages must be installed?

   
All the non-devel rpms/packages needed for svg support are already on 
the XO (at least
for Update.1 and the current joyride/8.2 builds). I needed the required 
SDL-* devel rpms
anyway to compile so 'it just worked'.
My build machine is a QEMU emulated XO on Windows XP/SP2 with an extra 
1GB disk
where I moved and mounted /home/olpc to make room for all the needed 
devel packages
and gcc, make etc.
In the most recent builds also SDL-pango is included, as you know, so 
now we should be able
to build a full TuxPaint, but only for 8.2 systems. SDL-pango is not 
available on 8.1 and older
builds.
 - To save space, keep only the smallest version of a stamp if both svg
 and png
   versions are available.
 - Removed development related files in the bundle. The full source is in
   TuxPaint-2.xo.tar.bz2.
 

 This really should happen in the main Makefile, via not copying
 them in the first place.

   
Agreed, but I did not want to mess with the install-all target in 
tuxpaint-stamps, since that is
used by everybody, hence the use of some cleanup scripts. See 
TuxPaint.activity/Makefile.
 - Updated activity.info with license information.
 

 Be 

Peru and Microsoft announcement

2008-09-16 Thread Ed McNierney
Folks -

There have been a number of questions about press coverage late last week
from Peru concerning the introduction of XO laptops running XP and Office.
Microsoft has previously ordered a number of XO laptops for XP testing and
pilot deployment.  The usage and distribution of these machines for that
effort is up to Microsoft, and that¹s what they¹re doing in Peru.  This
activity is not news, but is just a stage in Microsoft's plans as they were
announced back in May:

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/may08/05-15MSOLPCPR.mspx

There are a number of milestones yet to be achieved before XP can be made
widely available on XO machines in any form, from any source.   The work
involved will require at least more several months to complete.  Microsoft
and OLPC announced in May that we'd work to make XP available in a future XO
dual-boot configuration, and nothing has changed about that situation.

 - Ed

Ed McNierney
Vice President of Software Development
One Laptop Per Child
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Flash tests

2008-09-16 Thread Walter Bender
For consideration in your testing: there are some ways to tune the
performance of Flash, such as the video playback hack described here:

http://olpcnews.com/forum/index.php?topic=845.0

I don't know if there are similar hacks for improving general
performance of Flash (or Gnash) on lesser-powered machines, although I
am sure Rob has plenty of hints he can share for Gnash.

-walter

2008/9/16 Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi All,

 We need to characterize the performance and support of Flash in release 8.2.

 Technical people in Uruguay did a tests a while ago on the Flash games at
 this web site: http://www.minijuegos.com/

 They used the Gnash shipped with 656 (0.8.1-1) and a Flash plugin
 (9.0.124-0).

 They tested Castle Wars: http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/jugar.php?id=5552
 Freekick Fusion http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/html/index.php?id=4570
 Hulk Central Smahdown http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/jugar.php?id=6769

 I believe those were chosen as examples of Flash capabilities. They weren't
 necessarily things the ministry of education wanted to use in class :-)

 In all three Gnash failed completely and Flash ran slowly.

 If anyone has time to try those again with the 8.2 candidate build I would
 be very interested in the results.

 Any other comments, URLs or examples about our Flash support are
 appreciated.

 Thanks,

 Greg S





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Re: Flash tests

2008-09-16 Thread Bobby Powers
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 For consideration in your testing: there are some ways to tune the
 performance of Flash, such as the video playback hack described here:

 http://olpcnews.com/forum/index.php?topic=845.0

 I don't know if there are similar hacks for improving general
 performance of Flash (or Gnash) on lesser-powered machines, although I
 am sure Rob has plenty of hints he can share for Gnash.

 -walter

 2008/9/16 Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi All,

 We need to characterize the performance and support of Flash in release 8.2.

 Technical people in Uruguay did a tests a while ago on the Flash games at
 this web site: http://www.minijuegos.com/

 They used the Gnash shipped with 656 (0.8.1-1) and a Flash plugin
 (9.0.124-0).

that version of gnash is very old, you get different results running
8.2 or a recent joyride:

 They tested Castle Wars: http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/jugar.php?id=5552

loads, but doesn't work right (loops through some intro screens,
animation is slow).  (same behavior on my laptop running F9 + gnash)

 Freekick Fusion http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/html/index.php?id=4570

website doesn't load correctly in Browse, complains 'the URL is not
valid and cannot be loaded'. (on F9 it loads, plays an annoying
soundclip saying I've won a nintendo Wii, and gets all the way to the
instruction screen, but doesn't let me hit start)

 Hulk Central Smahdown http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/jugar.php?id=6769

gets to main menu, doesn't do anything after that.  (same on F9,
except when the main screen comes up it plays a soundclip saying 'HULK
SMASH')


 I believe those were chosen as examples of Flash capabilities. They weren't
 necessarily things the ministry of education wanted to use in class :-)

 In all three Gnash failed completely and Flash ran slowly.

again, this is not representative of 8.2 (although they still aren't
playable in Gnash)...

 If anyone has time to try those again with the 8.2 candidate build I would
 be very interested in the results.

 Any other comments, URLs or examples about our Flash support are
 appreciated.

I will file some gnash bugs related to this later, as well as try them
out on Gnash's trunk (its not building for me at the moment).

Bobby

 Thanks,

 Greg S





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Re: Flash tests

2008-09-16 Thread Bobby Powers
all my comments are directed at Gregs email, so I suppose I should
have replied to him... I hope this doesn't cause too much confusion...

bobby

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Bobby Powers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 10:14 AM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 For consideration in your testing: there are some ways to tune the
 performance of Flash, such as the video playback hack described here:

 http://olpcnews.com/forum/index.php?topic=845.0

 I don't know if there are similar hacks for improving general
 performance of Flash (or Gnash) on lesser-powered machines, although I
 am sure Rob has plenty of hints he can share for Gnash.

 -walter

 2008/9/16 Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Hi All,

 We need to characterize the performance and support of Flash in release 8.2.

 Technical people in Uruguay did a tests a while ago on the Flash games at
 this web site: http://www.minijuegos.com/

 They used the Gnash shipped with 656 (0.8.1-1) and a Flash plugin
 (9.0.124-0).

 that version of gnash is very old, you get different results running
 8.2 or a recent joyride:

 They tested Castle Wars: http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/jugar.php?id=5552

 loads, but doesn't work right (loops through some intro screens,
 animation is slow).  (same behavior on my laptop running F9 + gnash)

 Freekick Fusion http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/html/index.php?id=4570

 website doesn't load correctly in Browse, complains 'the URL is not
 valid and cannot be loaded'. (on F9 it loads, plays an annoying
 soundclip saying I've won a nintendo Wii, and gets all the way to the
 instruction screen, but doesn't let me hit start)

 Hulk Central Smahdown http://www.minijuegos.com/juegos/jugar.php?id=6769

 gets to main menu, doesn't do anything after that.  (same on F9,
 except when the main screen comes up it plays a soundclip saying 'HULK
 SMASH')


 I believe those were chosen as examples of Flash capabilities. They weren't
 necessarily things the ministry of education wanted to use in class :-)

 In all three Gnash failed completely and Flash ran slowly.

 again, this is not representative of 8.2 (although they still aren't
 playable in Gnash)...

 If anyone has time to try those again with the 8.2 candidate build I would
 be very interested in the results.

 Any other comments, URLs or examples about our Flash support are
 appreciated.

 I will file some gnash bugs related to this later, as well as try them
 out on Gnash's trunk (its not building for me at the moment).

 Bobby

 Thanks,

 Greg S





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Recovery connector?

2008-09-16 Thread Ricardo Carrano
Hi!

It seems that B2s do not have the serial recovery connector. I opened
one that seems really bricked (when turned on only the power light is
on, and removing battery and AC for some time do not fix it) and found
just the place holder for the connector. Is that a way to save this
B2?

By the way, it seems that this XO was bricked when updated to the
latest firmware.

Yes, I know that B2 are not supported anymore, but it happens that
they are useful for some non-gui networking tests. So, is it the case
that the recent firmwares do not support B2?

Cheers!
Ricardo
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Re: Recovery connector?

2008-09-16 Thread Mitch Bradley

 Message: 5
 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:58:14 -0400
 From: Ricardo Carrano [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Recovery connector?
 To: Devel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Message-ID:
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 Hi!

 It seems that B2s do not have the serial recovery connector. I opened
 one that seems really bricked (when turned on only the power light is
 on, and removing battery and AC for some time do not fix it) and found
 just the place holder for the connector. Is that a way to save this
 B2?
   

There are three ways to unbrick it, none of them trivial:

a) Solder on a recovery connector (requires a spare recovery connector, 
a recovery dongle, soldering skill, and recovery procedure skill)

b) Solder some wires directly to the recover pads and connect them to 
the recovery dongle, either via a header connector or by soldering 
directly to the pads on the dongle.  (This may seem tedious and 
unpalatable, but it doesn't take very long if you have a good soldering 
setup.)

c) Unsolder the SPI FLASH , reprogram it in a standalone programmer, and 
solder it back.  (This doesn't take long either if you have the tools.  
You can unsolder it by globbing solder across all of the pins at once.)

At one point I scavenged some recovery connectors from A-test boards.  
That's not easy; unsoldering them without ruining the plastic housing 
requires a lot of care and some luck.  The difficulty is the large 
(relatively speaking) metal mounting tabs underneath either side of the 
connector.  Those are hard to get loose.

 By the way, it seems that this XO was bricked when updated to the
 latest firmware.

 Yes, I know that B2 are not supported anymore, but it happens that
 they are useful for some non-gui networking tests. So, is it the case
 that the recent firmwares do not support B2?
   

E-series firmware prior to q2e17c will brick B2, as indicated by the 
bright red warnings at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Firmware .

The bug (#8426) has been fixed.  The fix will be officially released in 
q2e18, but for now you can get http://dev.laptop.org/~wmb/q2e17d.rom  
which has the fix.

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Re: Recovery connector?

2008-09-16 Thread Ricardo Carrano
Mitch,

Thank you for the answer. Yes, no doubt it is clearly stated in the
wiki that this firmware is not to be used on B2. And it was just
confirmed that this B2 was updated to a recent build with q2e14. There
you go.

Let's see if the team have good skills with an iron...

Thank you so much!

Cheers!
Ricardo



On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Mitch Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Message: 5
 Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 11:58:14 -0400
 From: Ricardo Carrano [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Recovery connector?
 To: Devel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Message-ID:
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

 Hi!

 It seems that B2s do not have the serial recovery connector. I opened
 one that seems really bricked (when turned on only the power light is
 on, and removing battery and AC for some time do not fix it) and found
 just the place holder for the connector. Is that a way to save this
 B2?


 There are three ways to unbrick it, none of them trivial:

 a) Solder on a recovery connector (requires a spare recovery connector,
 a recovery dongle, soldering skill, and recovery procedure skill)

 b) Solder some wires directly to the recover pads and connect them to
 the recovery dongle, either via a header connector or by soldering
 directly to the pads on the dongle.  (This may seem tedious and
 unpalatable, but it doesn't take very long if you have a good soldering
 setup.)

 c) Unsolder the SPI FLASH , reprogram it in a standalone programmer, and
 solder it back.  (This doesn't take long either if you have the tools.
 You can unsolder it by globbing solder across all of the pins at once.)

 At one point I scavenged some recovery connectors from A-test boards.
 That's not easy; unsoldering them without ruining the plastic housing
 requires a lot of care and some luck.  The difficulty is the large
 (relatively speaking) metal mounting tabs underneath either side of the
 connector.  Those are hard to get loose.

 By the way, it seems that this XO was bricked when updated to the
 latest firmware.

 Yes, I know that B2 are not supported anymore, but it happens that
 they are useful for some non-gui networking tests. So, is it the case
 that the recent firmwares do not support B2?


 E-series firmware prior to q2e17c will brick B2, as indicated by the
 bright red warnings at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Firmware .

 The bug (#8426) has been fixed.  The fix will be officially released in
 q2e18, but for now you can get http://dev.laptop.org/~wmb/q2e17d.rom
 which has the fix.

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Re: Peru and Microsoft announcement

2008-09-16 Thread Edward Cherlin
Thanks for talking to us.

This would be even more useful as the basis for an article or
editorial in one or more of the computer magazines or Web sites, or a
fact-filled press release. All of the media people I have talked with
say they would like to hear from OLPC.

We don't have to frame it as us vs. them. We can just announce the
state of current deployments, and discuss plans for future deployments
and G1G1, including whatever can be said in public about the Microsoft
trials. Everybody wants to know what's up with the Amazon deal, too.

2008/9/16 Ed McNierney [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
 Folks -

 There have been a number of questions about press coverage late last week
 from Peru concerning the introduction of XO laptops running XP and Office.
  Microsoft has previously ordered a number of XO laptops for XP testing and
 pilot deployment.  The usage and distribution of these machines for that
 effort is up to Microsoft, and that's what they're doing in Peru.  This
 activity is not news, but is just a stage in Microsoft's plans as they were
 announced back in May:

 http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2008/may08/05-15MSOLPCPR.mspx

 There are a number of milestones yet to be achieved before XP can be made
 widely available on XO machines in any form, from any source.   The work
 involved will require at least more several months to complete.  Microsoft
 and OLPC announced in May that we'd work to make XP available in a future XO
 dual-boot configuration, and nothing has changed about that situation.

  - Ed

 Ed McNierney
 Vice President of Software Development
 One Laptop Per Child
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: XOs resisting activation

2008-09-16 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 6:13 AM, Douglas Bagnall
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 In an effort to test the activation server on the new Fedora 9 based
 XS, I enabled security on a couple of laptops without leases.

 I was expecting them to go through their routine of checking USB, SD
 and network for leases, but instead they went straight to a sad face
 and a shutdown in 10 seconds message.  This happened whether or not
 the USB was inserted or network was available.

 Now, I'm a bit befuddled by illness so it's possible that I missed out
 some vital step, though I really don't think so.

 I don't have the laptops in front of me, but they were fresh from
 Martin's Saturday testing, which I think means they were running
 8.2-759 and q2e17.  One is a C2 and the other a B4.

 Is there something new in the firmware or init?  Workarounds?  Am I
 missing something obvious?

You need a signed build if you are going to enable security.  759 is
not signed.  714 is the most recent signed build.
 --scott

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New joyride build 2443

2008-09-16 Thread Build Announcer v2
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2443

Changes in build 2443 from build: 2442

Size delta: -0.14M

-sugar-update-control 0.12-1
+sugar-update-control 0.13-1
-sugar-toolkit 0.82.7-1.olpc3
+sugar-toolkit 0.82.8-2.olpc3

--- Changes for sugar-update-control 0.13-1 from 0.12-1 ---
  + Trac #8415: set base HREF for redirected update_urls correctly.
  + Trac #8502: clean up URL cache when control panel is closed.

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Re: semantic black ops for Activities? (Re: Greg Smith's Weekly Report)

2008-09-16 Thread Seth Woodworth
So far the semantic form for activities is very rough in actual data-points
and very rough in layout.

On the actual form, I think that there needs to be some small changes; a
drop down for languages, ability to add wiki-pages in certain fields instead
of urls, etc.

On the form's display, it would be possible to wrap the current data into a
box on the right hand side of the page, much like the current Activities
box.  I will try to describe what I would like to see more clearly on the
wiki-gang list and try to implement it (if I can).

On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 11:58 PM, Gary C Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 On 15 Sep 2008, at 23:58, Seth Woodworth wrote:

  Gary, the wiki is generally discussed on the library list, and on the new
 wiki-gang(@lists.l.o) list.  That may be why you missed information about
 the implementation of SMW.


 Thanks Seth, I'm still contemplating the changes (+ links as per your
 previous email). Just to be clear, I do like the move direction, I'm just
 trying to work out if it's now 'done' and if I (and other activity)
 developers should now go back and spend time revisiting and revising their
 activity wiki pages to comply.

 I think the main weird oddity I see now is that every activity page now
 using the new for has two blocks of apparently duplicate data showing, very
 confusing. There's a nicely formatted table at the very bottom (Facts about
 Moon), but before it is a great long ~page screed of the same data in a
 wasteful junky layout (Activity Summary). I initially thought my browser was
 showing some hidden or accidental field of junk data, but Firefox shows it
 too.

 --Gary

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Re: A working TuxPaint-2.xo for 8.1 and 8.2, how to update the wiki?

2008-09-16 Thread C. Scott Ananian
Ton, in talking to Seth and SJ, it seems like the 'registered users
only' option has a few more tweaks in practice.  You need to be
registered *for at least four days* and you need to have made N number
of edits already (I think N is three).  I poked them to respond to
this thread with the exact details, and to put said details on the top
of the Activities page, but it looks like they haven't done so yet. =(
 --scott

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Help the Help activity!

2008-09-16 Thread Brian Jordan
The Help activity is about to be used on a bunch of laptops (via the
G1G1 activity page/activity updater)!

The activity itself was originally written by marcopg, and its content
is being (manually) generated from the FlossManuals remix system:
http://en.flossmanuals.net/remix . It is a combination of chapters
from the Sugar and XO manuals.

Help test and improve Help! Write and improve Sugar/XO content at
flossmanuals, find and submit bugs for component help-activity, make a
new good-looking cascading stylesheet for the bundle!

To try it out:
(1) get Help from git:
sudo yum install git
git-clone git://dev.laptop.org/activities/help
cd help
./setup.py dev

(2) get the Help xo bundle:
wget http://dev.laptop.org/~bjordan/help-3.xo
sugar-install-bundle help-3.xo

Open bugs (blocking 8.2?):
http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8513 - doesn't look nice with screen rotation
http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8514 - missing one section
other tickets: 
http://dev.laptop.org/query?status=assignedstatus=newstatus=reopenedcomponent=help-activity

IF YOU KNOW CSS: Help make the Help Activity work on screen rotation:
http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8513
http://dev.laptop.org/~bjordan/manual/style.css
Firebug is very helpful: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1843

IF YOU KNOW HOW TO WRITE: Help make the Help Activity's Powering of
your Laptop section:
http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8514
edit this: http://en.flossmanuals.net/bin/view/XO/AdvancedPower

IF YOU CAN FLOSSMANUALS REMIX and upload the results: Help create new
content remixes of the Help Activity:
instructions are listed in the description of: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8514
export as a .tar.gz, that is exactly what is in the Help.activity/help/ folder

Brian
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Re: Recovery connector?

2008-09-16 Thread Richard A. Smith
Ricardo Carrano wrote:

 confirmed that this B2 was updated to a recent build with q2e14. There
 you go.

  Let's see if the team have good skills with an iron...

Ricardo,

I'm sorry you missed my post on devel that e series firmware would brick 
B2's.

Let me encourage you to replace that B2 with an MP rather than try the 
long path to recovery.  Do you even have the correct adapter with a 
65Mhz oscillator on it and a 5 pin cable?

Really the time for B2's is _way_ past. Let it rest in peace.

-- 
Richard Smith  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One Laptop Per Child
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Re: XOs resisting activation

2008-09-16 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 8:04 AM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 You need a signed build if you are going to enable security.  759 is
 not signed.  714 is the most recent signed build.

Odd. I am pretty sure we tested the simple lease server (on port 191)
before with machines that had 8.2-757.

Maybe they had a signed 70x as 'alternative OS' and a new run of
olpc-update has removed it (as now the backup OS slot is taken by
8,2-757?

For the record, what we are seeing is that the machines do not seem
take the lease file from a vfat formatted usb drive. They do not try
the network either. The first thing we see upon booting is the will
shutdown in 10s msg.

How do we get out of this one... or have we bricked the machines?

cheers,



m
-- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
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Re: semantic black ops for Activities? (Re: Greg Smith's Weekly Report)

2008-09-16 Thread Bert Freudenberg
Am 16.09.2008 um 22:27 schrieb Seth Woodworth:

 So far the semantic form for activities is very rough in actual data- 
 points and very rough in layout.

 On the actual form, I think that there needs to be some small  
 changes; a drop down for languages, ability to add wiki-pages in  
 certain fields instead of urls, etc.

 On the form's display, it would be possible to wrap the current data  
 into a box on the right hand side of the page, much like the current  
 Activities box.  I will try to describe what I would like to see  
 more clearly on the wiki-gang list and try to implement it (if I can).


As an activity author I'd love to have a single place to edit when a  
new release is made. The box appearing on the Activities page should  
be automatically created from the the activity's page, if you know  
what I mean.

I made an approximation of this for the X activity (inspired by the  
small boxes on top of the Activities page):

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/X_Activity

which includes the activity box at

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/X

that is also referenced in the Activities page:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities#Other

(hehe, wouldn't http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities#X be a nicer  
link? No way to do that I fear)

- Bert -

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Re: XO power consumption under 8.2-759

2008-09-16 Thread Richard A. Smith
John Gilmore wrote:

 
 I don't know why my power measurements are much higher than Richard's
 from February (he got 3.9W to 4.9W where I got 5.9W).  I tend to trust
 his more, since mine are one-shot samples, but my dimmer measurements
 do tend to corroborate each other (i.e. none of them got down to 4.9W
 until very very dim, yet he says the backlight was on full during his
 test).

My measurements were taken with the CPU off across long periods so that 
activity was minimal.  (I spent an entire Sunday taking them as I did 
other chores).  With the CPU off the fluctuation of the power draw is 
greatly reduced.  This could be the reason.  I will repeat my 
measurements to confirm.

-- 
Richard Smith  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One Laptop Per Child
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Re: XO power consumption under 8.2-759

2008-09-16 Thread Richard A. Smith
Gary C Martin wrote:

 I just have a B4 here to test but I was curious to try some power 
 measurement to see how they differed. I seem to have a slightly worrying 
 status that's not listed on the wiki page.

Kernel bug. Fixed in current joyride.  Also the status values changed 
and the overall level field was removed when we merged with upstream.  I 
thought I updated the wiki page for that but perhaps that was its 
predecessor olpc-logbat.  I'll update the wiki.

-- 
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New joyride build 2444

2008-09-16 Thread Build Announcer v2
http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2444

Changes in build 2444 from build: 2443

Size delta: 0.14M

-etoys 3.0.2141-1
+etoys 3.0.2147-1
-rainbow 0.7.22-1.fc9
+rainbow 0.7.23-1.fc9
-sugar 0.82.6-1.olpc3
+sugar 0.82.7-1.olpc3

--- Changes for etoys 3.0.2147-1 from 3.0.2141-1 ---
  + add license info to xo bundle
  + update translation: ja
  + fix loading project authored in different locale (#8495)
  + fix opening text files from Journal (#8402)

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See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs
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Re: Recovery connector?

2008-09-16 Thread Ricardo Carrano
Hey Richard!

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Richard A. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ricardo Carrano wrote:

 confirmed that this B2 was updated to a recent build with q2e14. There
 you go.

 Let's see if the team have good skills with an iron...

 Ricardo,

 I'm sorry you missed my post on devel that e series firmware would brick
 B2's,

 Let me encourage you to replace that B2 with an MP rather than try the long
 path to recovery.  Do you even have the correct adapter with a 65Mhz
 oscillator on it and a 5 pin cable?

 Really the time for B2's is _way_ past. Let it rest in peace.

 --
 Richard Smith  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 One Laptop Per Child


Thank you for your care and advice.

This B2s belongs to a University in Rio, that actually has 23 B2s.
They are pretty useful devices for networking tests and I am helping
this group to mount a sparse mesh testbed with them. We already
saved this B2 by using his screen to replace the bad screen in
another one, so the group end up with the same 22 active B2s.

As people play with this B2s (and even brick them) we are forming a
group of people that will help us develop our mesh network. And though
the user experience cannot be simulated with the old B2s, there is a
lot that can be done with them, in terms of tuning the low level mesh
parameters.

I still have my own testbed with B4 models and my G1G1 unit. ;-)

Thanks!
Ricardo
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Re: semantic black ops for Activities? (Re: Greg Smith's Weekly Report)

2008-09-16 Thread Bert Freudenberg

Am 16.09.2008 um 23:14 schrieb Walter Bender:

 You can add anchors to pages in the wiki, so you could do Activities#X


My wiki-fu is not strong enough ... and I do not see anchors  
mentioned on

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Help:Editing

- Bert -


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Re: Recovery connector?

2008-09-16 Thread Richard A. Smith
Ricardo Carrano wrote:

 
 Thank you for your care and advice.
 
 This B2s belongs to a University in Rio, that actually has 23 B2s.
 They are pretty useful devices for networking tests and I am helping
 this group to mount a sparse mesh testbed with them. We already
 saved this B2 by using his screen to replace the bad screen in
 another one, so the group end up with the same 22 active B2s.
 
 As people play with this B2s (and even brick them) we are forming a
 group of people that will help us develop our mesh network. And though
 the user experience cannot be simulated with the old B2s, there is a
 lot that can be done with them, in terms of tuning the low level mesh
 parameters.
 
 I still have my own testbed with B4 models and my G1G1 unit. ;-)

Using B2's for spare parts is a excellent idea.

Again though, please encourage them to trade in their B2's. We have said 
we will replace B2's with MP's for developers.  Replacing 23 units will 
take a bit of time and planning but we really do want to retire the B2s.

-- 
Richard Smith  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One Laptop Per Child
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Re: Recovery connector?

2008-09-16 Thread Carl-Daniel Hailfinger
On 16.09.2008 18:26, Mitch Bradley wrote:
 E-series firmware prior to q2e17c will brick B2, as indicated by the 
 bright red warnings at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Firmware .
   

Could you perhaps add a warning for B1 as well (if appropriate)?

Regards,
Carl-Daniel

-- 
http://www.hailfinger.org/

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Re: XO power consumption under 8.2-759

2008-09-16 Thread Richard A. Smith
Richard A. Smith wrote:

 My measurements were taken with the CPU off across long periods so that 
 activity was minimal.  (I spent an entire Sunday taking them as I did 
 other chores).  With the CPU off the fluctuation of the power draw is 
 greatly reduced.  This could be the reason.  I will repeat my 
 measurements to confirm.

After working on the wiki page I see that you were talking about the 
idle measurement here where the CPU was active.  Interesting.  I'll 
certainly re-run my measurements and see.

Perhaps its a build regression.  Those test were run quite a while ago. 
I see I didn't list the build nor upload the raw files. (Which would 
have the build /me smacks self) I might be able to find them in my huge 
store of log files by the date encoded in the file name if I kept them.

-- 
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Re: Peru and Microsoft announcement

2008-09-16 Thread Pia Waugh
Hi all,

quote who=Edward Cherlin

 This would be even more useful as the basis for an article or
 editorial in one or more of the computer magazines or Web sites, or a
 fact-filled press release. All of the media people I have talked with
 say they would like to hear from OLPC.
 
 We don't have to frame it as us vs. them. We can just announce the
 state of current deployments, and discuss plans for future deployments
 and G1G1, including whatever can be said in public about the Microsoft
 trials. Everybody wants to know what's up with the Amazon deal, too.

I just want to support what Edward is saying and say that OLPC could avoid a
lot of misinformation and drama by pre-emptively releasing news about what
is going on, which means OLPC wouldn't constantly be on the back foot of
having to respond to misinformation.

I believe there is an internal newsletter, why doesn't OLPC have a monthly
public news feed that is on the main website that talks about stuff
happening which would give the world (and community trying to support OLPC)
the information we all need :) The amount of times I've had people both from
the FOSS community and the general community ask me what is going on is
crazy, and damaging. And I'm not even on the inside, I'm just involved with
some regional projects!

If it is any help, Im sure there are many people in the community who would
be happy to help (including me) with something like this, with keeping the
general public and community informed in a more public fashion. There is
generally a lot of good will towards the project around the world but real
and positive public information is key to maintaining that good will.

Cheers,
Pia

-- 
OLPC Australia   http://olpc.org.au/
Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/
Open Source Industry Australia   http://osia.net.au/
Software Freedom Day  http://softwarefreedomday.org/
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Re: Peru and Microsoft announcement

2008-09-16 Thread Sayamindu Dasgupta
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 3:27 AM, Pia Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 quote who=Edward Cherlin

 This would be even more useful as the basis for an article or
 editorial in one or more of the computer magazines or Web sites, or a
 fact-filled press release. All of the media people I have talked with
 say they would like to hear from OLPC.

 We don't have to frame it as us vs. them. We can just announce the
 state of current deployments, and discuss plans for future deployments
 and G1G1, including whatever can be said in public about the Microsoft
 trials. Everybody wants to know what's up with the Amazon deal, too.

 I just want to support what Edward is saying and say that OLPC could avoid a
 lot of misinformation and drama by pre-emptively releasing news about what
 is going on, which means OLPC wouldn't constantly be on the back foot of
 having to respond to misinformation.

 I believe there is an internal newsletter, why doesn't OLPC have a monthly
 public news feed that is on the main website that talks about stuff
 happening which would give the world (and community trying to support OLPC)
 the information we all need :) The amount of times I've had people both from
 the FOSS community and the general community ask me what is going on is
 crazy, and damaging. And I'm not even on the inside, I'm just involved with
 some regional projects!


There's a community newsletter brought out weekly:
http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/community-news/
Ideally http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Current_events should be kept in
sync with it. The news section of the main laptop.org website also
points to this wki page.
Thanks,
Sayamindu



-- 
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Re: Peru and Microsoft announcement

2008-09-16 Thread Walter Bender
Jim took over my weekly community news digest for OLPC. It tends to
have a lot of information, not necessarily actionable, about
deployments. Alas, it tends to be more cheer leading than anything
else, where as the technical content has some depth (or at least
pointers to some depth).

-walter

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Pia Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 quote who=Edward Cherlin

 This would be even more useful as the basis for an article or
 editorial in one or more of the computer magazines or Web sites, or a
 fact-filled press release. All of the media people I have talked with
 say they would like to hear from OLPC.

 We don't have to frame it as us vs. them. We can just announce the
 state of current deployments, and discuss plans for future deployments
 and G1G1, including whatever can be said in public about the Microsoft
 trials. Everybody wants to know what's up with the Amazon deal, too.

 I just want to support what Edward is saying and say that OLPC could avoid a
 lot of misinformation and drama by pre-emptively releasing news about what
 is going on, which means OLPC wouldn't constantly be on the back foot of
 having to respond to misinformation.

 I believe there is an internal newsletter, why doesn't OLPC have a monthly
 public news feed that is on the main website that talks about stuff
 happening which would give the world (and community trying to support OLPC)
 the information we all need :) The amount of times I've had people both from
 the FOSS community and the general community ask me what is going on is
 crazy, and damaging. And I'm not even on the inside, I'm just involved with
 some regional projects!

 If it is any help, Im sure there are many people in the community who would
 be happy to help (including me) with something like this, with keeping the
 general public and community informed in a more public fashion. There is
 generally a lot of good will towards the project around the world but real
 and positive public information is key to maintaining that good will.

 Cheers,
 Pia

 --
 OLPC Australia   http://olpc.org.au/
 Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/
 Open Source Industry Australia   http://osia.net.au/
 Software Freedom Day  http://softwarefreedomday.org/
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Re: semantic black ops for Activities? (Re: Greg Smith's Weekly Report)

2008-09-16 Thread Gary C Martin
On 16 Sep 2008, at 21:54, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

 As an activity author I'd love to have a single place to edit when a  
 new release is made. The box appearing on the Activities page should  
 be automatically created from the the activity's page, if you know  
 what I mean.

 I made an approximation of this for the X activity (inspired by the  
 small boxes on top of the Activities page):

   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/X_Activity

 which includes the activity box at

   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/X

 that is also referenced in the Activities page:

   http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities#Other

Oooh. Nice idea using wiki includes! I do like. Anyone see any  
potentially nasty issues here? Control Panel software update happy  
with it? How about we do a sweep of all the Activity pages and use the  
same recipe? Objections?

--Gary
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Re: Recovery connector?

2008-09-16 Thread Ricardo Carrano
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 6:38 PM, Richard A. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Ricardo Carrano wrote:


 Thank you for your care and advice.

 This B2s belongs to a University in Rio, that actually has 23 B2s.
 They are pretty useful devices for networking tests and I am helping
 this group to mount a sparse mesh testbed with them. We already
 saved this B2 by using his screen to replace the bad screen in
 another one, so the group end up with the same 22 active B2s.

 As people play with this B2s (and even brick them) we are forming a
 group of people that will help us develop our mesh network. And though
 the user experience cannot be simulated with the old B2s, there is a
 lot that can be done with them, in terms of tuning the low level mesh
 parameters.

 I still have my own testbed with B4 models and my G1G1 unit. ;-)

 Using B2's for spare parts is a excellent idea.

 Again though, please encourage them to trade in their B2's. We have said we
 will replace B2's with MP's for developers.  Replacing 23 units will take a
 bit of time and planning but we really do want to retire the B2s.

Absolutely! Actually I just talked to them today about the logistics
of that wrt to customs. These very B2s stayed for months in customs.

So, btw, SJ, I will write to you soon about that.


 --
 Richard Smith  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 One Laptop Per Child

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Re: semantic black ops for Activities? (Re: Greg Smith's Weekly Report)

2008-09-16 Thread Seth Woodworth
Actually, even more interestingly you could update data in any one of these
forms, and then call that data in a different format on the [[Activities]]
page, the [[/Activities/G1G1]] page, or even in another language.

Setting that the Property:LatestVersion for the page [[Help_(activity)]] can
be aggregated on another page to fill in a field...

Let me try to find a good example...

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Bert Freudenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:

 Am 16.09.2008 um 22:27 schrieb Seth Woodworth:

  So far the semantic form for activities is very rough in actual
 data-points and very rough in layout.

 On the actual form, I think that there needs to be some small changes; a
 drop down for languages, ability to add wiki-pages in certain fields instead
 of urls, etc.

 On the form's display, it would be possible to wrap the current data into
 a box on the right hand side of the page, much like the current Activities
 box.  I will try to describe what I would like to see more clearly on the
 wiki-gang list and try to implement it (if I can).



 As an activity author I'd love to have a single place to edit when a new
 release is made. The box appearing on the Activities page should be
 automatically created from the the activity's page, if you know what I mean.

 I made an approximation of this for the X activity (inspired by the small
 boxes on top of the Activities page):

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/X_Activity

 which includes the activity box at

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/X

 that is also referenced in the Activities page:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities#Other

 (hehe, wouldn't http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities#X be a nicer link? No
 way to do that I fear)

 - Bert -


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Re: semantic black ops for Activities? (Re: Greg Smith's Weekly Report)

2008-09-16 Thread Bert Freudenberg
Am 16.09.2008 um 22:54 schrieb Bert Freudenberg:

 (hehe, wouldn't http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities#X be a nicer  
 link? No way to do that I fear)


Oh, thanks to Walter this works now :)

- Bert -


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Re: Help the Help activity!

2008-09-16 Thread Mikus Grinbergs
Tried to install (on joyride 2442) with sugar-install-bundle.  It 
gave me the error message: MalformedBundleException: All files in 
the bundle must be inside a single directory whose name ends with 
*.activity

mikus

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Re: Help the Help activity!

2008-09-16 Thread C. Scott Ananian
I just uploaded a slightly tweaked Help-5.xo which has some minor
packaging-related issues fixed.  That seems to upgrade fine (for me at
least).

There are some licensing issues with Help-5 -- it doesn't include the
licensing section from the original manual, and claims GPLv2 (only)
when apparently GPLv2+ or CC-something is more accurate.  The
'LICENSE' file in the activity bundle is not actually sufficient as a
statement of license.
 --scott

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 ( http://cscott.net/ )
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What mechanisms do we have tied to mesh networking?

2008-09-16 Thread Martin Langhoff
We are going forward recommending that medium-to-large networks are
based on conventional APs. However, we still have at least one
mechanism that works in mesh and not in conventional 802.11.a/b/g .

The mechanism I am thinking of is initial lease activation (over port
191) which uses mesh and IPv6 (or a random self assigned IPv4
address). We've had some discussions with Scott about how to sort
things out with conventional APs --

Do we have any other mechanisms that don't (currently) have a fallback
to 802.11.a/b/g ?

cheers,



m
-- 
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 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
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[Server-devel] F9 XS - Take it for a spin... updated

2008-09-16 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 5:47 PM, Martin Langhoff
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 with some caveats... this is a developer preview, lots of things are
 b0rken, but still...

some caveats, but now most stuff works. Wohoo! Updated instructions...

 - download all 759MB of iso here
 http://xs-dev.laptop.org/xs/other/Fedora-0.5.dev3-i386.iso

 - Burn it to a DVD (see notes below on using USB sticks)

 - Install it on a new machine - use the kickstart-driven default menu
option and agree to all the defaults (it'll do the right partitioning
for you too)

 - After install
   1 - login as root
   2 - do the 'domain_config' dance...

 - If you have 2 NICs and F9 got them the wrong way around, just
 invoke xs-swapnics and reboot

 - There are several updates and fixes in the olpcxs-testing repo, so do
   yum --disablerepo=olpcxs --enablerepo=olpcxs-testing install
xs-config xs-pkgs

 (if you do yum update you'll get a ton of updates related to the
GPG key change, I'll sort that out soon).

Other installation notes...

- Upgrades:
 - Use the text mode install if you want to upgrade - there's a bug
in anaconda's GUI...
 - append 'upgradeany' to the kernel commandline

 - From a USB device! Ah, well, mildly annoying -
  - grab mkusbinstall from here
 
http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=projects/xs-livecd;a=tree;f=util;h=202b31c7ef280036e3edd99ef68871e3d0815295;hb=HEAD
  - use it like you'd use livecd-iso-to-disk
  - Anaconda will fail to kind the ks file - fix the path to be
 'hd:sdb1:/ks.cfg' - assuming your USB disk is mounted as sdb1. It may
 require waiting a few seconds until sdb1 is mounted.
  - Anaconda will need to be told where the ISO is. Pick Hard Drive
 install, sdb1, and the path is 'iso'

What's not there yet

 - fakechroot doesn't play well with rsync. Waiting on upstream to nod
 at the patches, though they look good to me, and we do have an RPM for
 it.

 - ejabberd is the wrong version - got to fix that. The SRPM
http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=user/cassidy/ejabberd-rpm;a=shortlog;h=refs/heads/XS

cheers,



m
-- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: A working TuxPaint-2.xo for 8.1 and 8.2, how to update the wiki?

2008-09-16 Thread Ton van Overbeek
C. Scott Ananian wrote:
 Ton, in talking to Seth and SJ, it seems like the 'registered users
 only' option has a few more tweaks in practice.  You need to be
 registered *for at least four days* and you need to have made N number
 of edits already (I think N is three).  I poked them to respond to
 this thread with the exact details, and to put said details on the top
 of the Activities page, but it looks like they haven't done so yet. =(
  --scott
   
Scott,

Thanks for the update. In the meantime I wrote to Samuel Klein directly 
and I got the anwer from him
(according to Samuel N is 5 and not 3).
So I will try to make a few useful edits  on the wiki before trying to 
update/add to the Tux Paint
information. Albert, I would like to coordinate the Tux Paint updates 
with you. See also my earlier email
to you today.

Ton van Overbeek

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Re: Help the Help activity!

2008-09-16 Thread Brian Jordan
Thanks Scott, and apologies to all -- I did a crap job bundling help-3
via zip (I was just told to get an activity bundle out quickly so
people can hack on/fix it). Using setup.py is much, much better -- and
look, it makes a MANIFEST :-D

And for the lazy, you can get help-5:

(1) through the activity updater
(2) from http://dev.laptop.org/~cscott/bundles/Help-5.xo

Regards,
Brian

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 7:29 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I just uploaded a slightly tweaked Help-5.xo which has some minor
 packaging-related issues fixed.  That seems to upgrade fine (for me at
 least).

 There are some licensing issues with Help-5 -- it doesn't include the
 licensing section from the original manual, and claims GPLv2 (only)
 when apparently GPLv2+ or CC-something is more accurate.  The
 'LICENSE' file in the activity bundle is not actually sufficient as a
 statement of license.
  --scott

 --
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Re: Peru and Microsoft announcement

2008-09-16 Thread Ricardo Carrano
On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 6:57 PM, Pia Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi all,

 quote who=Edward Cherlin

 This would be even more useful as the basis for an article or
 editorial in one or more of the computer magazines or Web sites, or a
 fact-filled press release. All of the media people I have talked with
 say they would like to hear from OLPC.

 We don't have to frame it as us vs. them. We can just announce the
 state of current deployments, and discuss plans for future deployments
 and G1G1, including whatever can be said in public about the Microsoft
 trials. Everybody wants to know what's up with the Amazon deal, too.

 I just want to support what Edward is saying and say that OLPC could avoid a
 lot of misinformation and drama by pre-emptively releasing news about what
 is going on, which means OLPC wouldn't constantly be on the back foot of
 having to respond to misinformation.

Though I believe in the importance of properly communicating to/with
the outside world, truth is that there will be always a lot of
rumors, misinformation, lies and speculations regarding OLPC. This
will come from bloggers, professional (or not quite so) journalists,
people and institutions with hidden agendas, etc. So, I suggest that
we don't get too anxious about that (and focus on what will make
difference on the long run).


 I believe there is an internal newsletter, why doesn't OLPC have a monthly
 public news feed that is on the main website that talks about stuff
 happening which would give the world (and community trying to support OLPC)
 the information we all need :) The amount of times I've had people both from
 the FOSS community and the general community ask me what is going on is
 crazy, and damaging. And I'm not even on the inside, I'm just involved with
 some regional projects!

 If it is any help, Im sure there are many people in the community who would
 be happy to help (including me) with something like this, with keeping the
 general public and community informed in a more public fashion. There is
 generally a lot of good will towards the project around the world but real
 and positive public information is key to maintaining that good will.

 Cheers,
 Pia

 --
 OLPC Australia   http://olpc.org.au/
 Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/
 Open Source Industry Australia   http://osia.net.au/
 Software Freedom Day  http://softwarefreedomday.org/
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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: under a tree collab

2008-09-16 Thread John Gilmore
[I posted bug #8524 re lease activation not working on AP's.]

Another mechanism that only works on Mesh is sharing under a tree.

It's perfectly feasible for four or five kids with laptops, all
sitting under a tree, to share over ad-hoc 802.11 mode.  They don't
need a mesh that forwards packets; they can all hear each other on the
radio just fine.  Mac laptops do this, for example, using the standard
Zeroconf protocols to assign IP addresses to themselves, and find each
other by name with mdns.

OLPC's collaboration infrastructure doesn't support this -- or if some
underlying layer does, there's no UI for it.  There's no way for the
user to tell the laptop, Talk to other nearby laptops -- without the
mesh, without an access point.

Future hardware might well want to discard the complicated and
power-hungry mesh option, since we really aren't using it anyway,
except for lease activation and this under a tree scenario.  That
would give us lots more choices on future WiFi hardware.  If we fix
collab to work in ad-hoc mode under a tree, and when two or more
machines are plugged-together via Ethernet without a server, then not
only will our future products have that choice, but also, our collab
stuff will be MUCH easier to drop into ordinary Linux distros and
applications.

It seems to me that this would achieve a big piece of OLPC's original
software goals -- to spawn a revolution in free software applications
that support and encourage online collaboration.  (Divorcing the
collab support from the OLPC-unique Sugar GUI is also a prerequisite
for making that happen.)

John

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Re: Peru and Microsoft announcement

2008-09-16 Thread Samuel Klein
Hi Pia,

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Pia Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 quote who=Edward Cherlin
 This would be even more useful as the basis for an article or
 editorial in one or more of the computer magazines or Web sites, or a
 fact-filled press release. All of the media people I have talked with
 say they would like to hear from OLPC.

 We don't have to frame it as us vs. them. We can just announce the
 state of current deployments, and discuss plans for future deployments
 and G1G1, including whatever can be said in public about the Microsoft
 trials. Everybody wants to know what's up with the Amazon deal, too.

We could have a formulaic please check out our latest public
announcements email, and a list that media orgs can sign up to to
receive regular pointers to longer announcements.  Something between
the sporadic Press Release and the detailed weekly community-news
blurbs.


 I believe there is an internal newsletter, why doesn't OLPC have a monthly
 public news feed that is on the main website that talks about stuff
 happening which would give the world (and community trying to support OLPC)
 the information we all need :) The amount of times I've had people both from
 the FOSS community and the general community ask me what is going on is
 crazy, and damaging. And I'm not even on the inside, I'm just involved with
 some regional projects!

As mentioned elsewhere, we have a community-news list
(http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/community-news),  but it only goes
out to some 2000 people.  It might be valuable to have a list for
shorter, more specific announcements that includes a regular link to
the community-news archive, and any major essays or press pieces,
which we can broadcast to a much larger audience.

 If it is any help, Im sure there are many people in the community who would
 be happy to help (including me) with something like this, with keeping the
 general public and community informed in a more public fashion. There is
 generally a lot of good will towards the project around the world but real
 and positive public information is key to maintaining that good will.

This is a good point.  For instance, it would be useful to post and
wikify the community-news archives on the wiki (this would both give
them much higher google rank and help highlight red-links for a number
of efforts, deployments, or concepts that deserve public descriptions
but don't have their own page yet on our wiki).

SJ
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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: under a tree collab

2008-09-16 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 12:46 PM, John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [I posted bug #8524 re lease activation not working on AP's.]

 Another mechanism that only works on Mesh is sharing under a tree.

Ah, this is a bit of a misunderstanding :-)

 -  The laptops will continue to have mesh antenna, and to be able to
run simple mesh. It's connectivity to the school server / network that
is over a convetnional AP.

 - Even when connected to a conventional AP, the laptops are actually
using avahi (different implementation of the zeroconf protocols you
mention) so they _can_ see eachother. My understanding is that it
works automagically between XOs on the same AP -- but may have
limitations and possibly bugs as it's not something we push (and it's
not something we test much formally - feel free to encourage volunteer
testers to get involved!)

So we have

 - under a tree using mesh+avahi,  and

 - G1G1 users at a cafe with wifi using AP and avahi

btw, the assumption you make that laptops just can see eachother via
RF is not quite right when it comes to 802.11a/b/g. It's a
misconception I had too until I sat down and read the o'reilly 802.11
book (Thick But Worthwhile). When using an AP, the laptops only listen
to the AP, and even traffic between nodes is all mediated via the AP.

Odd protocol design, but it has its reasons (well explained in the
book, I can't hope to relay them veritably here).

Simple mesh does work but at a cafe I want to play with my pal *and*
check the facebook profile of the girl I met yesterday so I know the
bands she likes. Don't make me choose. :-p

cheers,



m
-- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: under a tree collab

2008-09-16 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

John Gilmore wrote:
| [I posted bug #8524 re lease activation not working on AP's.]
|
| Another mechanism that only works on Mesh is sharing under a tree.
|
| It's perfectly feasible for four or five kids with laptops, all
| sitting under a tree, to share over ad-hoc 802.11 mode.  They don't
| need a mesh that forwards packets; they can all hear each other on the
| radio just fine.

I'm not quite so certain.  I wouldn't venture to predict how TCP behaves
over a pure ad-hoc 802.11b network in the face of congestion, signal
nulls, etc.  I think an experiment is in order...

| OLPC's collaboration infrastructure doesn't support this -- or if some
| underlying layer does, there's no UI for it.  There's no way for the
| user to tell the laptop, Talk to other nearby laptops -- without the
| mesh, without an access point.

I think there is, somewhere in the command line, a way to set TTL=0 or
similar, but that's certainly far from a nice GUI toggle.

| Future hardware might well want to discard the complicated and
| power-hungry mesh option, since we really aren't using it anyway,
| except for lease activation and this under a tree scenario.  That
| would give us lots more choices on future WiFi hardware.

It's a little more complex than that.  My sense is that many OLPC
developers would ideally like a relatively thin, generic 802.11 chip and a
relatively generic, low-power processor to go with it, so that the main
CPU can shut down, and critical network services can run on the
coprocessor.  The best architecture I can imagine is to run the Cerebro
mesh routing and presence algorithms on that coprocessor.  Cerebro's
performance in tests on XO's has been amazing to me, so far.

|  If we fix
| collab to work in ad-hoc mode under a tree, and when two or more
| machines are plugged-together via Ethernet without a server,

The wired-ethernet case is already working, and has been for a year or
more.  Drop Sugar onto two Thinkpads connected to the same subnet, and
they will instantly find each other over Avahi, etc.  If it's a wireless
network, or if you have XOs with ethernet dongles, they'll also see any
XO's that are also connected to that AP.  (Actually, Sugar will also find
any nearby Macs running Avahi, but doesn't quite know what to do with them.)

| then not
| only will our future products have that choice, but also, our collab
| stuff will be MUCH easier to drop into ordinary Linux distros and
| applications.

Our collab stuff is essentially Telepathy, which is a freedesktop.org
project that originated separately from OLPC.  The Telepathy gtk chat
client Empathy may soon be Gnome's default IM client.  Sugar is already
available as a package for Fedora, Debian, and Ubuntu, with working collab
out of the box over the internet, ethernet, or wireless AP.  I don't know
what happens if you configure Network Manager for ad-hoc mode before
launching Sugar.

Also, open80211s is now in the mainline linux kernel (as of 2.6.26). This
is a pure-software implementation that will work on a wide variety of
existing hardware, and should interoperate cleanly with the XO mesh.  In
short, I'm not convinced that the mesh network approach is a real
liability for Sugar on non-XO hardware.

- --Ben
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iEYEARECAAYFAkjQZnoACgkQUJT6e6HFtqTcRgCgmn+gKH41hb975ONAFI32VHHL
lkUAoIid7WgmyrGW3FriIUY2mDRvKbt5
=ulyx
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: under a tree collab

2008-09-16 Thread Ricardo Carrano
John,

On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 9:46 PM, John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 [I posted bug #8524 re lease activation not working on AP's.]

 Another mechanism that only works on Mesh is sharing under a tree.

 It's perfectly feasible for four or five kids with laptops, all
 sitting under a tree, to share over ad-hoc 802.11 mode.  They don't
 need a mesh that forwards packets; they can all hear each other on the
 radio just fine.  Mac laptops do this, for example, using the standard
 Zeroconf protocols to assign IP addresses to themselves, and find each
 other by name with mdns.

 OLPC's collaboration infrastructure doesn't support this -- or if some
 underlying layer does, there's no UI for it.  There's no way for the
 user to tell the laptop, Talk to other nearby laptops -- without the
 mesh, without an access point.

 Future hardware might well want to discard the complicated and
 power-hungry mesh option, since we really aren't using it anyway,
 except for lease activation and this under a tree scenario.  That
 would give us lots more choices on future WiFi hardware.  If we fix
 collab to work in ad-hoc mode under a tree, and when two or more
 machines are plugged-together via Ethernet without a server, then not
 only will our future products have that choice, but also, our collab
 stuff will be MUCH easier to drop into ordinary Linux distros and
 applications.

 It seems to me that this would achieve a big piece of OLPC's original
 software goals -- to spawn a revolution in free software applications
 that support and encourage online collaboration.  (Divorcing the
 collab support from the OLPC-unique Sugar GUI is also a prerequisite
 for making that happen.)

John

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It's true that multi hoping comes with extra complexity. But it is
also true that you can achieve much more with multi hoping than with a
802.11 IBSS. If we really want to encourage freedom and empower
people, a multihop wirless network is the only foreseeable
communication technology that frees people from the dependency of
infra-structure (meaning entities that run that infra and associated
costs) and is usable not only under a tree, but in a larger context
and coverage area.

There are technical challenges in the way, but OLPC should keep
pushing this for the benefits it will bring. It seems a perfect fit
with the Mission.

Also, please note that the scenario you describe: 5 kids under the
tree, works for some time now with XOs.

Cheers!
Ricardo
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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: under a tree collab

2008-09-16 Thread Walter Bender
  (Actually, Sugar will also find
 any nearby Macs running Avahi, but doesn't quite know
 what to do with them.)

Chat between Bonjour clients works today. So the XOs know some things
to do with a MAC.

-walter
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[Server-devel] anaconda deletes /fsckoptions on F9 based XS

2008-09-16 Thread Douglas Bagnall
hi,

The xs-config package creates a file called /fsckoptions (yes, in /),
to stop headless servers from stalling on fsck questions.

This file is deleted by anaconda, some time after the end of ks.cfg's
%post section.  To be sure, I used:

%post
#[...]
if [ -e /fsckoptions ]; then
touch /root/fsckoptions-there-at-end-of-post
fi

and that flag is set.  Does anyone know how to stop anaconda doing
this?  Or is it necessary to use a first-boot rc script?


douglas
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Re: #7898 LOW 8.2.0 (: Sugar handbook should not be in PDF

2008-09-16 Thread Christoph Derndorfer
Sorry, can't connect to Trac atm as I'm dialing in via my mobile phone.

Why is the Activity Handbook depreciated? And what's the connection to 
the help activity? The Activity Handbook (just like the Sugar Almanac) 
is targeted at people who are interested in developing activities for 
the Sugar platform (learning C# in 21 days) while the Help-activitiy 
is all about being a user's manual.

What am I missing?

Christoph

Zitat von Zarro Boogs per Child [EMAIL PROTECTED]:

 #7898: Sugar handbook should not be in PDF
 -+--
   Reporter:  skierpage  |   Owner:  ChristophD
   Type:  defect |  Status:  closed
   Priority:  low|   Milestone:  8.2.0 (was Update.2)
  Component:  library| Version:  not specified
 Resolution:  fixed  |Keywords:  joyride-2273:- csafor8.2
 Next_action:  never set  |Verified:  0
  Blockedby: |Blocking:
 -+--
 Changes (by isforinsects):

  * status:  new = closed
  * resolution:  = fixed


 Comment:

 This has been depreciated in the latest release.  The PDF will not be
 included.

 See Help-5.xo

 --
 Ticket URL: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7898#comment:8
 One Laptop Per Child http://laptop.org/
 OLPC bug tracking system





--
Christoph Derndorfer
co-editor, olpcnews
url: www.olpcnews.com
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Public Relations, regular updates and news (was: Peru and Microsoft announcement)

2008-09-16 Thread Ixo X oxI
And to add 2 cents further,. . . about public announcements and reports of
current events...

. . . about 6 months ago a handful of us cheerful support-gang
volunteer types  started to put together a 'public friendly' newsletter of
the various happenings  we got one issue out, and then no one carried
the flag forward.

  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Weekly_zine/0

A great piece of work, I must say myself... :) but 'weekly' was just too
quick between issues.

We got a bit ambitious on what we wanted to do, and there weren't quite
enough hands to keep it going. ;-/   The issue took about 2 weeks to pull
together, with help from about a dozen people.

There's been a recent influx of new 'Support Gang' members, so maybe there's
enough new blood to help carry it forward ?

*hint*  *hint*   *poke*  *grin*
-Ixo



On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 18:00, Samuel Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Pia,

 On Tue, Sep 16, 2008 at 5:57 PM, Pia Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  quote who=Edward Cherlin
  This would be even more useful as the basis for an article or
  editorial in one or more of the computer magazines or Web sites, or a
  fact-filled press release. All of the media people I have talked with
  say they would like to hear from OLPC.
 
  We don't have to frame it as us vs. them. We can just announce the
  state of current deployments, and discuss plans for future deployments
  and G1G1, including whatever can be said in public about the Microsoft
  trials. Everybody wants to know what's up with the Amazon deal, too.

 We could have a formulaic please check out our latest public
 announcements email, and a list that media orgs can sign up to to
 receive regular pointers to longer announcements.  Something between
 the sporadic Press Release and the detailed weekly community-news
 blurbs.


  I believe there is an internal newsletter, why doesn't OLPC have a
 monthly
  public news feed that is on the main website that talks about stuff
  happening which would give the world (and community trying to support
 OLPC)
  the information we all need :) The amount of times I've had people both
 from
  the FOSS community and the general community ask me what is going on is
  crazy, and damaging. And I'm not even on the inside, I'm just involved
 with
  some regional projects!

 As mentioned elsewhere, we have a community-news list
 (http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/community-news),  but it only goes
 out to some 2000 people.  It might be valuable to have a list for
 shorter, more specific announcements that includes a regular link to
 the community-news archive, and any major essays or press pieces,
 which we can broadcast to a much larger audience.

  If it is any help, Im sure there are many people in the community who
 would
  be happy to help (including me) with something like this, with keeping
 the
  general public and community informed in a more public fashion. There is
  generally a lot of good will towards the project around the world but
 real
  and positive public information is key to maintaining that good will.

 This is a good point.  For instance, it would be useful to post and
 wikify the community-news archives on the wiki (this would both give
 them much higher google rank and help highlight red-links for a number
 of efforts, deployments, or concepts that deserve public descriptions
 but don't have their own page yet on our wiki).

 SJ

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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: under a tree collab

2008-09-16 Thread Stephen Thorne
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 11:28 AM, Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

  - under a tree using mesh+avahi,  and

  - G1G1 users at a cafe with wifi using AP and avahi


When at a cafe with wifi, the laptops should be able to contact their jabber
server, which will mean they will be using telepathy-gabble (xmpp + central
server), not telepathy-salut (xmpp + avahi). These two ways of seeing other
laptops do not coexist.

This essentially means that as soon as your laptop is talking to the jabber
server, you are 'on the internet' and all peer-to-peer collaboration
disappears, you are only able to see those on your jabber server.

There is currently no UI for forcing 'salut' vs. 'gabble', the only way to
modeswitch is to be unable to contact the jabber server.

This means two laptops from neighbouring schools who each have their 'own'
schoolserver set up as their jabber server will not be able to share any
content if they are close enough to receive wireless signal to the internet.

-- 
Stephen Thorne

Give me enough bandwidth and a place to sit and I will move the world.
--Jonathan Lange
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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: under a tree collab

2008-09-16 Thread James Cameron
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 03:07:35PM +1000, Stephen Thorne wrote:
 This means two laptops from neighbouring schools who each have their
 'own' schoolserver set up as their jabber server will not be able to
 share any content if they are close enough to receive wireless signal
 to the internet.

Three kids under a tree.  Sharing fine.  One climbs the tree.  Sharing
stops.  They'll soon learn to stop climbing trees.  Is this really what
we want?  Tree climbing is a very useful skill.

-- 
James Cameronmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://quozl.netrek.org/
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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: under a tree collab

2008-09-16 Thread John Gilmore
Ricardo Carrano said:
 There are technical challenges in the way, but OLPC should keep
 pushing this for the benefits it will bring. It seems a perfect fit
 with the Mission.

Mesh and the Marvell WiFi chip have been two of the big
disappointments of the OLPC.  The mesh implementation simply doesn't
scale.  We've had to require people to turn it off to just get basic
TCP/IP to work in classrooms.  We've stopped designing mesh wireless
into school servers.  Maybe it will work someday -- in fact I'm sure
it will work *better* someday.  And the Marvell chip, as delivered,
burned something like twice the power it was spec'd to burn, reducing
the laptop's suspend time so it does not even survive one night, even
when not actively forwarding packets.  Its promised open source
firmware ended up proprietary and endlessly buggy.  Its USB interface
was almost incompatible with the laptop's power management
implementation, which is forced to turn off the USB bus, and still
requires great amounts of dancing on the head of a pin for CPU
power-off suspends to work at all (they were designed to resume
invisibly in 0.1 seconds, but cannot resume in less than 1.0 seconds).
The mesh protocol implemented is still only compatible with itself and
no other vendor; it's not a standard.

In short, among the promised miracles of the OLPC project, the mesh
was a failure.  We got a great screen, we got a low power fanless
flash-based laptop, we got cute and kidproof packaging, we got a low
price (almost), we got a promise of long battery life (someday), but
we didn't get automatic wireless networking that works all day in the
school and extends throughout the village all night without
infrastructure.  I don't mean to rub it in, Ricardo, but it's a fact
that anyone can see if they merely open their eyes.  To keep pushing
on something that did not deliver the goods for three years is not
always the best option.

If a small amount of software work would give OLPC the option to drop
mesh support in future products, I think OLPC should *definitely* do
that small amount of work.  Which is not to say they should drop the 
mesh -- just that they should keep their options open.

Martin Langhoff said (quoting me):
  Another mechanism that only works on Mesh is sharing under a tree.
 Ah, this is a bit of a misunderstanding :-)

Well, whether or not you asked the question (What would we have to
change to delete Mesh from our product, since we aren't using it
much?), you inspired me to try to answer it.  So far it looks like
only lease activation, sharing under trees, and long-distance but
thinly populated villages require mesh.  I filed bugs #8524 and #8525
for two possible enhancements (make leases and tree-sharing work
without mesh).

The decision to tie application sharing to Mesh and Sugar was a bad
design idea, one which I've been intending to explore fixing.  It
should work over any working network, which includes 802.11 adhoc
without access points, and in any GUI.  Breaking those ties would
allow anybody who runs AbiWord to do OLPC-like sharing.  And once
that's working on ordinary network hardware, in ordinary Linux
distros, for the 99.99% of Linux users who don't run Sugar, then lots
of other shareable apps would quickly follow.  The Linux programmer
community that works on Sugar activities is less than 1% of the total
Linux application programmer community.  By telling them this shared
collaboration stuff only works if you blow away your user interface
and replace it with this extremely clunky one -- and set up a custom
school server in your house or office, they think, I'll add shared
collab to *my* software when they have put a bit of polish on this
'feature'.

  My understanding is that it
 works automagically between XOs on the same AP -- but may have
 limitations and possibly bugs as it's not something we push (and it's
 not something we test much formally ...

My naive understanding was that zeroconf works, so you can run TCP/IP,
but something about our non-mesh sharing protocol requires a server
somewhere.  Otherwise what's that setting in Network in the Control
Panel: Mesh Server: olpc.collabora.co.um?  Don't we switch between
two different wire protocols (theoretically seamlessly), one of which
requires a server?  Yep:  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Collaboration_Tutorial
says we use gabble to talk to a server, and salut for link-local serverless
sharing.

 btw, the assumption you make that laptops just can see eachother via
 RF is not quite right when it comes to 802.11a/b/g. It's a
 misconception I had too until I sat down and read the o'reilly 802.11
 book (Thick But Worthwhile). 

Yep, many radio protocols use repeaters for many good reasons,
including hidden nodes and other channel allocation problems.  But the
ability to talk node-to-node -- without repeaters -- is a key feature
of many radio protocols.  Both capabilities are built into 802.11.

Note that when five kids are sitting under 

[Server-devel] Looking at edublog moodle code --

2008-09-16 Thread Martin Langhoff
Hi Tarun,

I'm looking briefly at edublog's moodle code. Was hoping to be able to
cherry-pick the patches making the html editor changes, but your
initial moodle commit is with the _modified_ moodle already...?

I am looking at ab1232242ab51336e9b0fc9aed1443bc35fe1d49 - but from
what I can see, that's not a pristine moodle, it's a moodle where
you've made changes already. Correct? Is there a way to separate
those? Do did you base your work on a specific version of moodle(which
I can diff), or did you grab a daily?

What follows is a bit of a style nitpick -- don't take too badly...
it's just that reusing your code is easier if you follow some
guidelines...

First - one topic per commit, only. For example:
- c4a3130ec48cd1fa2eb65fc1e0f59cada1f4b7db fixes to write upload is
a good commit dealing with one area / feature
- a1170158d7fb5185287a6a8525aa87718c7959b6 is not so good ;-)

once you are doing that, you can put the area as the 'prefix' in the
first line of your commit. So you write as first lines stuff like...

 xotheme: fixed the frobniz
 oublog: fix db conection in blogger api client
 xift: import of pristine xift framework version 0.1.2.3
 xift: hacked to work on XO

which means that just by scanning the listing in gitk I can spot all
the commits that are important for a particular thing I am looking
for...

In terms of basing your work on something existing - like moodle! -
ideally, you'd be using a branch based on a repo that has all the
history (like the catalyst-maintained moodle-r2 git repo.  That shows
all the moodle history, and then you open up your branch, do your
custom work, and you can also merge in updates (like security fixes)
from upstream.

That's best practice. Second best is to make an initial import of a
'pristine' version, just unpacked from the tarball. Make sure you
mention the exact version in the commit msg. And then make your
changes in separate commits. This means that if you want to re-apply
your changes on a new release of the thing, you have your patches
clearly separated in git.

Anyway, my fault for not looking into your code earlier. It's been a
ton of work on other issues. Now we got to find a way to see how that
initial import commit can be separated into bits I can review and
reuse...

cheers,



m
-- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: mechanisms tied to mesh: under a tree collab

2008-09-16 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Wed, Sep 17, 2008 at 5:26 PM, John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  My understanding is that it
 works automagically between XOs on the same AP -- but may have
 limitations and possibly bugs as it's not something we push (and it's
 not something we test much formally ...

 My naive understanding was that zeroconf works, so you can run TCP/IP,
 but something about our non-mesh sharing protocol requires a server
 somewhere.

I think you are right there. I've been reading up on a bit of the
avahi infra, and thought for a moment it was all avahi-based. I think
it actually was at a time, many moons ago.

 Note that when five kids are sitting under a tree using 802.11s Mesh,
 their radios are talking directly node-to-node.

Definitely. That's why I pointed out a/b/g. 's' definitely is
node-to-node. For a/b/g to work in ad-hoc mode with more than 2 nodes
you need something like Cerebro. You say you don't like it; I say it
works quite well, but if you have something better (different sw or
patches to Cerebro) we'll want to see it.

It's hip to complain about the low-level collaboration layers these
days. But it doesn't help much. What we need are a thousand litle
steps towards something better. Poly has been very active in
supporting Cerebro, he's probably interested in hearing about patches
and/or well defined bugs you may have.

Now, to bring this thread back to course... old-timers and people that
work in areas of the XO software I rarely travel, do you know about
any XO/XS or XO/Internet interaction that depends on an active antenna
/ 802.11s ?

cheers,



m
-- 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: XOs resisting activation

2008-09-16 Thread Douglas Bagnall
Scott wrote:

 You need a signed build if you are going to enable security.  759 is
 not signed.  714 is the most recent signed build.

The 4 button install of 714 worked; thanks Scott and Mitch.

In the process, I noticed that it looks to download fs.zip from the
school server.  That is quite neat, and I'd like to make the server
play along.  I've opened #8523 which contains speculation about what
ofw might want from the XS.

I just noticed #2740 (the same, from firmware's POV), but it is
probably worth keeping both tickets.


Douglas
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