Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread Albert Cahalan
Bobby Powers writes: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiagomnm at gmail.com: Python is killing the XO, what's being done in that regard? The $100 laptop will always be hardware limited, how can python be a benefit and not a *huge* burden? I for one can't get my head around that. The idea is to give

Re: Which wikipage lists activities for 8.2.1 ('staging') ?

2009-02-04 Thread Daniel Drake
2009/2/4 Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com: I'm confused as to which Activities are mated to 8.2.1. The subject came up before, when it was pointed out that wikipage Activities/G1G1 lists some newer activity versions than wikipage Activities/G1G1/8.2. Correct. G1G1 lists activities that have

Re: Life in an insecure world

2009-02-04 Thread Daniel Drake
2009/2/4 John Watlington w...@laptop.org: I insist on b) in order to prevent inadvertent bricking of laptops by typing enable-security, Are you concerned that there is a realistic and common use case when a particular type of user would want or need to run enable-security? Or is your concern

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread quozl
On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 12:40:38AM -1000, Mitch Bradley wrote: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device Read it and weep. +1 Fixed a couple of typos in the last section. Also, re: Conversely, if the layout is bad, every cluster write might split two pages, forcing the

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread david
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mitch Bradley wrote: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device Read it and weep. this completely ignores wear leveling, which is very nessasary for just about any filesystem, but especially for FAT (which appear to be the only filesystems this author

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 da...@lang.hm wrote: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mitch Bradley wrote: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device Read it and weep. this completely ignores wear leveling, which is very nessasary for just about any filesystem, but

Re: Life in an insecure world

2009-02-04 Thread Gary C Martin
On 4 Feb 2009, at 12:14, Daniel Drake wrote: 2009/2/4 John Watlington w...@laptop.org: I insist on b) in order to prevent inadvertent bricking of laptops by typing enable-security, Are you concerned that there is a realistic and common use case when a particular type of user would want or

Re: Life in an insecure world

2009-02-04 Thread Daniel Drake
2009/2/4 Reuben K. Caron reu...@laptop.org: Yes, I was particularly thinking of you and your experience in Ethiopia and the difficulties you faced to re-secure the laptops. I prefer to think of it as: Is there a realistic and common use case for when a *deployment* would want or need to run

Re: Life in an insecure world

2009-02-04 Thread John Watlington
On Feb 4, 2009, at 7:14 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: 2009/2/4 John Watlington w...@laptop.org: I insist on b) in order to prevent inadvertent bricking of laptops by typing enable-security, Are you concerned that there is a realistic and common use case when a particular type of user would want

Re: Life in an insecure world

2009-02-04 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 12:22 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote: Should we care ? I just proved that it is possible for any kid in Peru to slag their laptop by simply typing sudo rm -rf /* in a terminal window, a similar feat of child-like naivete. Alt-boot could recover from most

[Invitation] XOLPC gathering Cosi Sat Feb 7, 2009 no on-2pm @ Wed Feb 4 12pm – 2pm (de...@laptop.org)

2009-02-04 Thread Henry Hardy
BEGIN:VCALENDAR PRODID:-//Google Inc//Google Calendar 70.9054//EN VERSION:2.0 CALSCALE:GREGORIAN METHOD:REQUEST BEGIN:VEVENT DTSTART:20090204T17Z DTEND:20090204T19Z DTSTAMP:20090204T140358Z ORGANIZER;CN=Henry Hardy:mailto:hhard...@gmail.com UID:6qh3tleihqljn7tqh9kunmf...@google.com

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 00:40 -1000, Mitch Bradley wrote: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device Read it and weep. It's a great article, but people that aren't very familiar with filesystems and the filesystem tools are going to read the article, look at their tools,

XOLPC gathering Cosi Sat Feb 7, 2009 noon-2pm

2009-02-04 Thread Henry Edward Hardy
BEGIN:VCALENDAR PRODID:-//Google Inc//Google Calendar 70.9054//EN VERSION:2.0 CALSCALE:GREGORIAN METHOD:REQUEST BEGIN:VEVENT DTSTART:20090204T17Z DTEND:20090204T19Z DTSTAMP:20090204T140358Z ORGANIZER;CN=Henry Hardy:mailto:hhard...@gmail.com UID:6qh3tleihqljn7tqh9kunmf...@google.com

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread pgf
da...@lang.hm wrote: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mitch Bradley wrote: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device Read it and weep. this completely ignores wear leveling, which is very nessasary for just about any filesystem, but especially for FAT (which appear to

8.2.1 wireless testing results #2

2009-02-04 Thread Daniel Drake
Comparing staging-25 against 8.2-767, I have 2 more APs to play with: 1. D-Link DWL-7100AP Open and WEP work fine. I also confirmed that connection is automatically reestablished on reboot. WPA(TKIP): 8.2.0 connects every time. 8.2.1 always fails to connect, bringing up the password request

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread david
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 da...@lang.hm wrote: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mitch Bradley wrote: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device Read it and weep. this completely ignores wear leveling, which is

Re: [Testing] Notes from an impromptu 8.2.1 Release Mtg.

2009-02-04 Thread Daniel Drake
2009/1/31 Hal Murray hmur...@megapathdsl.net: Probably best to upload somewhere and put a link here. http://www.megapathdsl.net/~hmurray/tmp/messages.11 It also contains the info from when I poked my icon and it worked. That starts at 08:49. I inserted a few blank lines at that point to

Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread Mitch Bradley
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device Read it and weep. Mitch ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread david
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, da...@lang.hm wrote: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Umm, what? To alleviate the wear out problems, the FTL must move data around so that repeated writes to a given sector don't cause too many writes to

Re: Life in an insecure world

2009-02-04 Thread Reuben K. Caron
Daniel Drake wrote: 2009/2/4 John Watlington w...@laptop.org: I insist on b) in order to prevent inadvertent bricking of laptops by typing enable-security, Are you concerned that there is a realistic and common use case when a particular type of user would want or need to run

Please update etoys in 8.2.1

2009-02-04 Thread Bert Freudenberg
Dear Release Manager, as we discussed on IRC today (and which I had not realized until today) the 8.2.1 release will be pre-installed on XOs for much longer than anticipated, since the 9.1 release has been canceled, and no replacement is in sight. We have had fixed Etoys / Squeak-VM

No ActivityTeam meeting this Friday

2009-02-04 Thread Wade Brainerd
We didn't schedule one, but in case anyone thought there would be, there is no ActivityTeam meeting this Friday. I'm out of town this week, and I'm leaning towards bi-weekly anyway. I'll send out another email when we set the next time. Cheers, Wade

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread Wade Brainerd
Regarding Gentoo, don't miss http://www.gentooxo.org/. That project combined with the Sugar overlay might be a good start for a tiny XO Sugar distribution. Wade On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan nirbheek.chau...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:12 AM, S Page

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread Wade Brainerd
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Albert Cahalan acaha...@gmail.com wrote: Bobby Powers writes: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiagomnm at gmail.com: Python is killing the XO, what's being done in that regard? The $100 laptop will always be hardware limited, how can python be a benefit and not a

Re: Life in an insecure world

2009-02-04 Thread John Watlington
Is this really true ? If you've removed /versions, how does alt-boot find the other image ? On Feb 4, 2009, at 10:33 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 12:22 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote: Should we care ? I just proved that it is possible for any kid in

Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Peter Robinson
Hi All, I wanted to put it to the lists and get some feedback, with the plans on basing the 9.1.0 release on Fedora 11 I think we need to have a testing stream based on rawhide so that we can start testing core OS related bits and dealing with them sooner rather than later. My thoughts are that

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Chris Ball
Hi Peter, I wanted to put it to the lists and get some feedback, with the plans on basing the 9.1.0 release on Fedora 11 I think we need to have a testing stream based on rawhide so that we can start testing core OS related bits and dealing with them sooner rather than later.

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Peter Robinson
Hi Chris, I wanted to put it to the lists and get some feedback, with the plans on basing the 9.1.0 release on Fedora 11 I think we need to have a testing stream based on rawhide so that we can start testing core OS related bits and dealing with them sooner rather than later.

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Chris Ball
Hi Jerry, I've been playing with booting fedora on the XO, mostly with anaconda (F9/F10) to be able to run an install on the XO itself for the XS. I'll try to boot the F11 kernel/installer when one is available, it looks like there are issues building anaconda atm, there is no

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread Mitch Bradley
I am the author of the page in question. To establish my credentials, I wrote my first filesystem forensic tool in 1980, to diagnose and repair a Unix filesystem that had been damaged by a kernel misconfigured that made it swap on top of the filesystem. That was when 10 MB disk packs the

Re: Mesh support very likely to miss Sugar 0.84

2009-02-04 Thread Mikus Grinbergs
In Sugar 0.84, will mesh at least be disabled, from the point of view of Ohm and the kernel, so that the WiFi chip can be powered down when it's not in use for WiFi? To me, one of the most attractive points about the OLPC is the capability to use it collaboratively far from civilization.

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mitch Bradley wrote: It has been my experience that USB sticks and SD cards with intact factory formatting tend to last longer and run faster than ones that have been reformatted with random layouts. This gives us Linux users a bit of a dilemma

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread Mitch Bradley
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/How_to_Damage_a_FLASH_Storage_Device Read it and weep. It's a great article, but people that aren't very familiar with filesystems and the filesystem tools are going to read the article, look at their tools, scratch their heads, decide the whole thing is

[Server-devel] Cooking around ejabberd - Fwd: mod_ctrlextra, shared roster groups and more pubsub fun...

2009-02-04 Thread Martin Langhoff
Just to keep people in the look as to what I'm working on... - using mod_ctlextra to control shared rosters from moodle enrol/unenrol hooks - testing ejabberd to 2.0.3 - which claims to fix some pubsub issues, and has the ssl/tls memory consumption bug fixed... -- martin --

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Jerry Vonau
On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 20:47 +0100, Peter Robinson wrote: Hi Chris, I wanted to put it to the lists and get some feedback, with the plans on basing the 9.1.0 release on Fedora 11 I think we need to have a testing stream based on rawhide so that we can start testing core OS

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Jerry Vonau
On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 15:05 -0500, Chris Ball wrote: Hi Jerry, I've been playing with booting fedora on the XO, mostly with anaconda (F9/F10) to be able to run an install on the XO itself for the XS. I'll try to boot the F11 kernel/installer when one is available, it looks

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Greg Dekoenigsberg
After a brief discussion with Jeremy, it appears that Fedora 11 in rawhide has had many boot issues on many platforms, and they're tackling them one by one. He promises to have a look at OLPC specifically on Friday. --g -- Got an XO that you're not using? Loan it to a needy developer! [[

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread Mitch Bradley
Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mitch Bradley wrote: It has been my experience that USB sticks and SD cards with intact factory formatting tend to last longer and run faster than ones that have been reformatted with random layouts.

[Server-devel] Network addressing for activation-over-IBSS

2009-02-04 Thread Daniel Drake
Hi, I have modified the XO activation initramfs to attempt to locate a lease server on an XS on each open infrastructure network that can be found (early patch attached). The XS does not bind the server to the IPv6 address correctly (perhaps we can work on that)., so it currently runs over IPv4

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Peter Robinson
Hi Greg, Thanks for poking :) After a brief discussion with Jeremy, it appears that Fedora 11 in rawhide has had many boot issues on many platforms, and they're tackling them one by one. He promises to have a look at OLPC specifically on Friday. Excellent news. In the mean time, even with

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Greg Dekoenigsberg
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Peter Robinson wrote: Hi Greg, Thanks for poking :) After a brief discussion with Jeremy, it appears that Fedora 11 in rawhide has had many boot issues on many platforms, and they're tackling them one by one. He promises to have a look at OLPC specifically on Friday.

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Daniel Drake
2009/2/4 Chris Ball c...@laptop.org: Hi Jerry, I've been playing with booting fedora on the XO, mostly with anaconda (F9/F10) to be able to run an install on the XO itself for the XS. I'll try to boot the F11 kernel/installer when one is available, it looks like there are issues

Re: Mesh support very likely to miss Sugar 0.84

2009-02-04 Thread Peter Robinson
Hi All, I've never used the mesh before so I'm not 100% on how it works... In Sugar 0.84, will mesh at least be disabled, from the point of view of Ohm and the kernel, so that the WiFi chip can be powered down when it's not in use for WiFi? To me, one of the most attractive points about the

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Chris Ball
Hi Greg, cjb, it was my understanding that you were already essentially doing nightly builds from rawhide using livecd-tools. Am I mistaken? I was doing manual builds from rawhide using livecd-tools, trying to get them to boot. Haven't got around to nightly yet, since it didn't

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Greg Dekoenigsberg
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Chris Ball wrote: Hi Greg, cjb, it was my understanding that you were already essentially doing nightly builds from rawhide using livecd-tools. Am I mistaken? I was doing manual builds from rawhide using livecd-tools, trying to get them to boot. Haven't got

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread Francisco Castro
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 17:58:24 Albert Cahalan wrote: Assembly has a reputation for being hard, but this is far from the truth. It is large assembly projects that are hard to understand. For tiny things, assembly is even easier than C. What you see is what you get, exactly. Python has

Gitorious still hanging up on me

2009-02-04 Thread James Simmons
I tried to do a git push to gitorious this morning and it failed without even trying to ask for my passphrase. I'm going to try it tonight using the box I originally migrated to gitorious with and see if that works any better, but I believe I created the public keys the same way on both and

Re: Assembly vs. Python

2009-02-04 Thread James Simmons
I've been amused reading these comments about Knuth and Assembler vs. Python. Back in 1978 at Western Illinois University I encountered Knuth's books in the school library. He not only used Assembly in his examples, he used a made up version of Assembly language for a machine that did not

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread Bobby Powers
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: This gives us Linux users a bit of a dilemma if we want to use FTL flash for primary storage. FAT does not provide the file access permissions, symlinks, hardlinks, or even case sensitivity, that we desire for

Re: [Server-devel] Network addressing for activation-over-IBSS

2009-02-04 Thread John Gilmore
The XS does not bind the server to the IPv6 address correctly (perhaps we can work on that)., so it currently runs over IPv4 True - the XS runs an IPv4 infra. IPv6 offers link-level addresses that don't require any infrastructure, not even a DHCP server. If you make both ends work with

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread James Cameron
On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 07:51:44PM -0500, Bobby Powers wrote: What about a small script that could do two things: Sounds great. -- James Cameronmailto:qu...@us.netrek.org http://quozl.netrek.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Michael Stone
On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 05:53:14PM -0500, Chris Ball wrote: Hi, This is Fedora's initramfs, right? Right. Peter's suggestion is to use pilgrim to create rawhide builds, hence using the olpc initramfs. That's an interesting idea. I don't like it long-term, because no-one's working

Re: [Server-devel] Network addressing for activation-over-IBSS

2009-02-04 Thread Wade Brainerd
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: 2009/2/5 Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org: I have modified the XO activation initramfs to attempt to locate a lease server on an XS on each open infrastructure network that can be found (early patch attached). Great -- I am not too conversant on the

Re: [Server-devel] mod_ctrlextra, shared roster groups and more pubsub fun...

2009-02-04 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: Do I need to patch mod_ctlextra? Retry with 2.0.2? 2.0.3? Getting the same behaviour on v2.0.3. Any hints? cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect - ask

Re: [Server-devel] Network addressing for activation-over-IBSS

2009-02-04 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Wade Brainerd r...@wadeb.com wrote: I can possibly help too w.r.t. the OLPC initramfs, I have hacked it up to the point of not needing it but I have a general idea how it works. dsd is proposing a patch. Might merit review :-)

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread John Watlington
On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:47 AM, Bobby Powers wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:55 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: Ok, what tools can I use to satisfy you of this 'opinion' that applications start faster

Re: x11vnc and vncviewer for classroom

2009-02-04 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 12:39 PM, Anna ascho...@gmail.com wrote: Another option to accomplish this is to stream the screen of the Ubuntu machine as ogg and then the XOs can simply play the stream via totem. The src of the video is a conventional ubuntu machine - - how powerful is the source

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread david
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mitch Bradley wrote: da...@lang.hm wrote: so if the device is performing wear leveling, then the fact that your FAT is on the same eraseblock as your partition table should not matter in the least, since the wear leveling will avoid stressing any particlar part of

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread david
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Bobby Powers wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: This gives us Linux users a bit of a dilemma if we want to use FTL flash for primary storage. FAT does not provide the file access permissions, symlinks, hardlinks,

Re: Treatise on Formatting FLASH Storage Devices

2009-02-04 Thread david
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mitch Bradley wrote: Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mitch Bradley wrote: It has been my experience that USB sticks and SD cards with intact factory formatting tend to last longer and run faster than ones that have been

Re: Joyide on Fedora 11/rawhide

2009-02-04 Thread Bobby Powers
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 8:50 PM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 05:53:14PM -0500, Chris Ball wrote: Hi, This is Fedora's initramfs, right? Right. Peter's suggestion is to use pilgrim to create rawhide builds, hence using the olpc initramfs. That's

Re: [Server-devel] Network addressing for activation-over-IBSS

2009-02-04 Thread Wade Brainerd
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: 2009/2/5 Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org: I have modified the XO activation initramfs to attempt to locate a lease server on an XS on each open infrastructure network that can be found (early patch attached). Great -- I am not too conversant on the