OFW Q3A15
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Firmware_q3a15 Lots of good stuff. Please help me test it! My trac tickets are at http://dev.laptop.org/report/41 . If you click on the Action Needed column, the test in release tickets will collate together. Those tickets are ostensibly fixed in q3a15. It would be good to verify those, especially if you have already participated in the ticket. Don't limit yourself to testing just those fixes, though. I need to know about any regressions or anything else that doesn't work right. We are getting close to the end game for XO-1.5 shipment, so now is the time to find problems. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Sharing files among several XO
On 29.10.2009, at 16:23, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: 2009/10/29 Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de: On 29.10.2009, at 02:47, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: Under Etoys, If I keep down the mouse button and choose Save under another name (I am not sure about the exact message), and save the project with another name, then in the journal the previous instance of the project is replaced with this new one. I will check again tonight. Note: Pay attention I am not just using the Keep button Why?! Because I need it to conduct test and I want to be sure to save another instance of the project, under another name. No, I meant why you don't simply click the Keep button. Btw, I can confirm you renaming the project in Etoys toolbar then saving does not produce another instance everytime. For me it does, every time. Can you write up steps to reproduce the problem? The modus operendi of the journal does not looks intuitive to me, but well it does not count really as I am not the typical target audiance. Hilaire Be that as it may I still think Etoys should follow the Sugar conventions closely. And as far as I know it does. If clicking the Keep button does not save another copy every time you click it, that's a bug. Mind I'm not talking about the save menu item, just the Keep button. - Bert - Simply stop Etoys to save to the Journal, overwriting the previous entry. Simply click the Keep button to create a new entry in the Journal. Simply edit the name in the Etoys toolbar to rename. Or rename in the Journal. The hidden save menu options let you save to a file or upload to the Squeakland website. They do not save to the Journal. They are hidden for a reason. - Bert - -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Sharing files among several XO
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 29.10.2009, at 16:23, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: 2009/10/29 Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de: On 29.10.2009, at 02:47, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: Under Etoys, If I keep down the mouse button and choose Save under another name (I am not sure about the exact message), and save the project with another name, then in the journal the previous instance of the project is replaced with this new one. I will check again tonight. Note: Pay attention I am not just using the Keep button Why?! Because I need it to conduct test and I want to be sure to save another instance of the project, under another name. No, I meant why you don't simply click the Keep button. Btw, I can confirm you renaming the project in Etoys toolbar then saving does not produce another instance everytime. For me it does, every time. Can you write up steps to reproduce the problem? The modus operendi of the journal does not looks intuitive to me, but well it does not count really as I am not the typical target audiance. Hilaire Be that as it may I still think Etoys should follow the Sugar conventions closely. And as far as I know it does. If clicking the Keep button does not save another copy every time you click it, that's a bug. Mind I'm not talking about the save menu item, just the Keep button. Hi Bert, It sounds like Etoys is behaving appropriately. However, perhaps part of the solution is just in naming this other feature that causing confusion. What does it do exactly? Perhaps save isn't the right term for it. Also, I understand uploading to Squeakland, but how does save to a file differ from Keep? Eben - Bert - Simply stop Etoys to save to the Journal, overwriting the previous entry. Simply click the Keep button to create a new entry in the Journal. Simply edit the name in the Etoys toolbar to rename. Or rename in the Journal. The hidden save menu options let you save to a file or upload to the Squeakland website. They do not save to the Journal. They are hidden for a reason. - Bert - -- http://blog.ofset.org/hilaire ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen
Oops, sorry. Post to the wrong devel list :-( Lionel. De : LASKE, Lionel (C2S) Envoyé : vendredi 30 octobre 2009 15:05 À : 'sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org' Objet : XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen Hi all, I've just upgraded our XO 1.5 to q13a13 firmware and to os34. By the way, I've got two issues: - First: the system hang (no response from mouse and keyboard) when displaying the Type your name screen. - Second: I can't stop the booting process. Pressing the check mark then the Esc key don't stop the process. :-( Any idea to leave solve this ? Best regards from France. Lionel. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen
Lionel - Step 1 is to take Mitch's advice of earlier today and upgrade to q3a15: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Firmware_q3a15 - Ed On Oct 30, 2009, at 10:06 AM, LASKE, Lionel (C2S) wrote: Oops, sorry. Post to the wrong devel list :-( Lionel. De : LASKE, Lionel (C2S) Envoyé : vendredi 30 octobre 2009 15:05 À : 'sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org' Objet : XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen Hi all, I’ve just upgraded our XO 1.5 to q13a13 firmware and to os34. By the way, I’ve got two issues: - First: the system “hang” (no response from mouse and keyboard) when displaying the “Type your name” screen. - Second: I can’t stop the booting process. Pressing the check mark then the Esc key don’t stop the process. :-( Any idea to leave solve this ? Best regards from France. Lionel. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Beam Me Up Scotty, file sharing activity idear
So I'm reminded of my first handheld computer, and beaming between friends, my contact information, like a business card, and sharing applications/ activities by beaming them to someone in the proximity by IR. So fast forward to the WiFi age, and several friends within a classroom or after school program/ activity, or passing notes in class ;-/ Not everyone in the proximity is the intended audience for the note or information so some security might be in order (lest the teach get the note), just as not every acquaintance is a friend, but given more and more contact (connection counts?) and less arguing leading to ombuds/ sent to the principal's office, or whatever. Also to beam to mother ship OLPC/SugarLabs/ Donors/ Remote Family/ Global Village to put on the Refrigerator art work and other creations by kids. I realize not all cultures focus around the refrigerator (nor that all cultures center their home life around the metal box that eats electricity, makes noise, leaks freon, etc) but by analogy here... Sending things up Beam Me Up Scotty (little green machine, I have had red hair, on the playground, so cut me a little slack ;-/ ) to a public gallery space of kids creations with the XOs or about the XOs/ Sugar Software and Activites for the community and kids to be proud of their creations, kind of grandparent like, but hopefully you get the idear Just an idear. Not a software program, nor even a design doc, but baby steps and floating it to the community while you are probably off on other issues... -- DancesWithCars leave the wolves behind ;-) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
OOM conditions
In a LWN discussion thread on how google uses the kernel I found the following: == 2) Mike asked why the kernel tries so hard to allocate memory - why not just fail to allocate if there is too much pressure. Why isn't disabling overcommit enough? Posted Oct 24, 2009 1:26 UTC (Sat) by Tomasu (subscriber, #39889) [Link] 2) probably because they actually want some over-commit, but they don't want the OOM thread to go wild killing everything, and definitely not the WRONG thing. Posted Oct 25, 2009 19:24 UTC (Sun) by oak (subscriber, #2786) [Link] In the Maemo (at least Diablo release) kernel source there are configurable limits for when kernel starts to deny allocations and when to OOM-kill (besides notifying user-space about crossing of these and some earlier limits). If process is set as OOM-protected, its allocations will also always succeed. If OOM-protected processes waste all memory in the system, then they can also get killed. === Working the table at the Boston book festival I was reminded how painful the OOM stuff is on a gen 1. The demo machines were in this state a lot as each visitor would open up a new program. Basically you have to just turn the unit off and restart as trying to recover is futile. The 1GiB of memory on 1.5 will help with this somewhat but in most cases it just means that you shift the problem. Users being users will still open up too much and the 1GiB isn't an option for Gen 1.0 users. The OOM topic and what to do in that case has come up several times in the past. If Maemo thinks they have a reasonable solution to the problems then someone should look at trying to add that to our kernel and user space -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen
Step 1 is to take Mitch's advice of earlier today and upgrade to q3a15: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Firmware_q3a15 - First: the system “hang” (no response from mouse and keyboard) when displaying the “Type your name” screen. - Second: I can’t stop the booting process. Pressing the check mark then the Esc key don’t stop the process. :-( Both of your problems (loss of keyboardmouse) are the same problem and should be solved by the above firmware upgrade. To restore your keyboard please remove external power and battery, count to 10 and then reapply power. -- Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org One Laptop per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
NOW: Contributors Program Mtg! (Fri 2PM Boston time, #olpc-meeting)
Please join us NOW reviewing the latest OLPC/Sugar community projects over IRC Live Chat: (2PM EDT Boston Time Today/Friday) http://forum.laptop.org/chat Then type at bottom: /join #olpc-meeting AGENDA: * New projects libraries -- teaching them Community Outreach: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO_Laptop_Lending_Libraries * Which projects might you enjoy Mentoring below?! http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects http://rt.laptop.org/Search/Results.html?Query=Queue=%27contributors%27 * Fast Review of the 2 latest (greatest!) HW/Project Proposals -- please join us advocating for, and/or reviewing shortcomings of these proposals: 1. Deploy Laptops to Mafi Dove, Ghana in early January 2010 - Ghana Massachusetts, USA http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=49565 http://www.cs.umass.edu/~moss/ghana/ [NEEDS A LINK FROM http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects ] Requests 4 XOs over 2-4 months Project Objectives: 1) Make computers available to middle school, and eventually primary school, students in Mafi Dove, Ghana. Develop sustainable teacher training and support plan. Assist in integrating computers into the school’s education plan. Initial deployment would outfit a “lab” with around 10 laptops and provide laptops to relevant teachers, with a few backup units in case of failure. Depending on your recommendation, we could also outfit a classroom in addition to the “lab”; this would require an additional 20 units. 2) Determine next steps when we visit, namely how and when to expand to all students in Mafi Dove (would involve perhaps 200 units)? How to provide training and tech support on an ongoing basis? What are the indigenous resources in Ghana? What can we do versus what needs to be done by OLPC or other agencies? How and when should we provide Internet access (this first visit will not attempt that)? 3) Get a sense of how this could eventually expand to more villages in the area, and involve students from UMass as an ongoing service-learning course. Note: We 5 are leaders of a small Episcopal church in Ashfield, MA (except Nell, who is Susan’s daughter and our person very experienced with the village and area). This is not an evangelism project, but strictly mission/service to the children and families of this rural village 2. SocialCalc, Newspaper activity, Deducto, Video Chat Activity, Itunes for e-books - New Delhi, India http://rt.laptop.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=49596 http://seeta.in/j/archives.html http://blog.laptop.org [SPECIFIC SITE(S) NEEDS TO BE POSTED OFF http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Projects ] Requests 3 XO-1.5'ss over 6.5 months Project Objectives: 1. SocialCalc, the community spreadsheet - http://seeta.in/j/products-and-services/socialcalc-on-sugar.html and http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4084 2. Newspaper activity for the future journalists - We are undertaking this project with OLPC Corps Indiana University, who did a pilot this summer in South Africa (http://seeta.in/j/products-and-services/37.html), and are helping us gather ideas and scenarios on the pedagogical front at this juncture. 3. Deducto, activity to improve deducing logic skills - http://seeta.in/j/products-and-services/deducto.html and http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4220 4. Color Deducto, activity to teach color schemes, systems and patterns through pattern recognition - http://seeta.in/j/products-and-services/color-deducto.html and http://activities.sugarlabs.org/en-US/sugar/addon/4221 5. Video Chat Activity - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Video_Chat (Video Chat does not work on Sugar 0.84. I have hired 2 developers, who would be working on this project starting next week). 6. Itunes for e-books - We are working on this project with Kovid Goyal - http://www.seeta.in/wiki/index.php?title=ITunes_for_EBooks http://seeta.in/wiki/index.php?title=SocialCalc_on_Sugar http://seeta.in/wiki/index.php?title=Deducto http://seeta.in/wiki/index.php?title=Color_Deducto http://seeta.in/wiki/index.php?title=ITunes_for_EBooks http://seeta.in/j/products-and-services/37.html ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
open 80211s on XO 1.5
On a whim, I posted to the open 80211s list to see if the wireless card on the XO1.5B2 will support open 80211s. Here's the thread. http://open80211s.com/pipermail/devel/2009-October/000368.html I must admit that my understanding of open 80211s is fairly limited, but I was hoping that the wireless card in the 1.5 could support open80211s to allow for meshing a la XO1. cheers, Sameer ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: open 80211s on XO 1.5
Hi, Sameer ! Are you sure open802.11s can be made to support to the Marvell chipsets ? In any case, open802.11s implementation is certainly incompatible with the standard OLPC 802.11s driver, since they implemented different versions of the draft. It is interesting to read that Mesh networking is exceptionally difficult to use properly on an XO-1, and I'm not aware of any real-world installations of it., as Ed told us. All the best, hilton On Friday 30 October 2009 16:38:28 Ed McNierney wrote: On Oct 30, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: to allow for meshing a la XO1 Sameer - Are you in fact using 802.11s mesh networking on XO-1 machines? Or are you rather using ad-hoc networking and collaboration features? Mesh networking is exceptionally difficult to use properly on an XO-1, and I'm not aware of any real-world installations of it. - Ed ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Hilton Garcia Fernandes Nucleo de Tecnologias sem Fio (NTSF) -- Wireless Technologies Team Lab de Sistemas Integraveis Tecnologico (LSI) -- Integrable Systems Lab Escola Politecnica (Poli) -- Engineering School Univ S Paulo (USP) Tel: (5511)3091-5311 (work) (5511)8131-5213 (mobile) Av. Prof. Luciano Gualberto,158 trav.3 CEP 05508-010 S. Paulo -- SP -- Brazil Pagina inicial: http://www.lsi.usp.br/~hgfernan ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: open 80211s on XO 1.5
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 11:38 AM, Ed McNierney e...@laptop.org wrote: On Oct 30, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: to allow for meshing a la XO1 Sameer - Are you in fact using 802.11s mesh networking on XO-1 machines? Or are you rather using ad-hoc networking and collaboration features? Mesh networking is exceptionally difficult to use properly on an XO-1, and I'm not aware of any real-world installations of it. - Ed Hi Ed, When we have meetings at OLPC-SF the XO-1 that people bring to the meetings (anywhere from 5 to 30+ machines) all use mesh (draft 80211s at layer 2, as far as I can tell). We also usually have a school server running on a XO1 (via SD card), which I believe is also using draft 80211s mesh. I do have a prototype mesh antenna, which when plugged into a (non-XO based) schoolserver provides a mesh node (draft 80211s). This is based on my impression and understanding of things. I don't think any of the above mentioned scenarios use ad-hoc mode. Is this correct? Real world scenarios will involve schools of several hundred XOs, but should also include scenarios of a handful of XOs in the under-a-tree model. The collaboration aspect is further up the layers, so I understand that it will be oblivious to how the network or data link layer creates the p2p network. My goal in posting to the 80211s list was to see if the current radio would possibly support open80211s at some point. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor, Information Systems Director, Center for Business Solutions San Francisco State University http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://cbs.sfsu.edu/ http://is.sfsu.edu/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: open 80211s on XO 1.5
On Oct 30, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: scenarios of a handful of XOs in the under-a-tree model Sameer - Under a tree, using mesh networking is pointless (unless, I suppose, it is an extraordinarily large tree). Mesh networking allows packet forwarding from node A to node B, where such nodes cannot normally communicate with one another directly. Packets are forwarded through node C, visible to both A and B, or through multiple such intermediate nodes. If A can communicate with B, mesh is neither helpful nor advisable. It just confuses things, which is the problem we see with large numbers of children in a classroom. The mesh efforts to keep track of how to get from A to B can quickly saturate the RF spectrum with a lot of unhelpful traffic. I can't tell what it is you're doing at your meetings when your users all use mesh. At a typical in-person meeting, you have a number of people using XOs all in the same room. Any XO in the room can communicate over WiFi directly with every other machine in the room (except in extremely unusual circumstances, or too many attendees wearing their tinfoil hats). There's no need for or value to mesh network - A doesn't need C to forward packets to B because A can see B directly as another ad hoc node. If there's an AP providing routing to the Internet or other external networks, there's no mesh required there, either, presuming that each XO can communicate with the AP directly. I can't answer your question about whether those scenarios use ad hoc networking because I don't quite see what it is the users are doing in those scenarios. What (lowercase) activity are users engaged in when you say they all use mesh? What do you think they would be unable to do if they all stopped using mesh? Thanks for the info. - Ed ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen
Thanks Ed but I can't upgrade to q3a15 due to the keyboard issue :-( Lionel. De : Ed McNierney [mailto:edmcnier...@gmail.com] De la part de Ed McNierney Envoyé : vendredi 30 octobre 2009 15:12 À : LASKE, Lionel (C2S) Cc : OLPC Devel Objet : Re: XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen Lionel - Step 1 is to take Mitch's advice of earlier today and upgrade to q3a15: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Firmware_q3a15 - Ed On Oct 30, 2009, at 10:06 AM, LASKE, Lionel (C2S) wrote: Oops, sorry. Post to the wrong devel list :-( Lionel. De : LASKE, Lionel (C2S) Envoyé : vendredi 30 octobre 2009 15:05 À : 'sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.orgmailto:'sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org' Objet : XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen Hi all, I've just upgraded our XO 1.5 to q13a13 firmware and to os34. By the way, I've got two issues: - First: the system hang (no response from mouse and keyboard) when displaying the Type your name screen. - Second: I can't stop the booting process. Pressing the check mark then the Esc key don't stop the process. :-( Any idea to leave solve this ? Best regards from France. Lionel. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.orgmailto:Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: open 80211s on XO 1.5
I'd said to lots of people that the XO uses 802.11s mesh networking and eventually ran into someone rather geekie and otherwise impressively knowledgeable who corrected me that they didn't implement the whole standard (and people here say draft). The Marvel driver is said to be closed source, and RMS didn't like that, all of course rumor, and another rumor that the driver was open sourced. No rumors on the XO-1.5 yet, which is a shame. Even as hype and pre-release getting a buzz going would be nice. I don't have one, so can't test it to find out. Computer are supposed to be a Science, or so Knuth is credited by the ACM for helping to make that happen, documenting the fundamental algorithms and all... There are other mesh networking and someone once said to me that the 802.11s isn't that special that mesh OLR or somesuch protocols have been around for some time, but I'm guessing the XO is one of the bigger (~1 million XOs out there somewhere) publicly known implementations in that arena. So if someone / laptop.org wants to set the record straight and give definitive info, that would be great... On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Ed McNierney e...@laptop.org wrote: On Oct 30, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: scenarios of a handful of XOs in the under-a-tree model Sameer - Under a tree, using mesh networking is pointless (unless, I suppose, it is an extraordinarily large tree). Mesh networking allows packet forwarding from node A to node B, where such nodes cannot normally communicate with one another directly. Packets are forwarded through node C, visible to both A and B, or through multiple such intermediate nodes. If A can communicate with B, mesh is neither helpful nor advisable. It just confuses things, which is the problem we see with large numbers of children in a classroom. The mesh efforts to keep track of how to get from A to B can quickly saturate the RF spectrum with a lot of unhelpful traffic. I can't tell what it is you're doing at your meetings when your users all use mesh. At a typical in-person meeting, you have a number of people using XOs all in the same room. Any XO in the room can communicate over WiFi directly with every other machine in the room (except in extremely unusual circumstances, or too many attendees wearing their tinfoil hats). There's no need for or value to mesh network - A doesn't need C to forward packets to B because A can see B directly as another ad hoc node. If there's an AP providing routing to the Internet or other external networks, there's no mesh required there, either, presuming that each XO can communicate with the AP directly. I can't answer your question about whether those scenarios use ad hoc networking because I don't quite see what it is the users are doing in those scenarios. What (lowercase) activity are users engaged in when you say they all use mesh? What do you think they would be unable to do if they all stopped using mesh? Thanks for the info. - Ed ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- DancesWithCars leave the wolves behind ;-) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen
That's not correct. Many of us have run into this problem and done the upgrade. As Richard pointed out, removing all power (disconnect the AC adapter, remove the battery, count to 10, then reassemble) will reset the EC and fix the problem. Power on the machine and press Esc immediately to get to the OFW prompt. You can then use the OFW flash command as described in the instructions to upgrade the firmware. - Ed On Oct 30, 2009, at 4:08 PM, LASKE, Lionel (C2S) wrote: Thanks Ed but I can’t upgrade to q3a15 due to the keyboard issue :-( Lionel. De : Ed McNierney [mailto:edmcnier...@gmail.com] De la part de Ed McNierney Envoyé : vendredi 30 octobre 2009 15:12 À : LASKE, Lionel (C2S) Cc : OLPC Devel Objet : Re: XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen Lionel - Step 1 is to take Mitch's advice of earlier today and upgrade to q3a15: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Firmware_q3a15 - Ed On Oct 30, 2009, at 10:06 AM, LASKE, Lionel (C2S) wrote: Oops, sorry. Post to the wrong devel list :-( Lionel. De : LASKE, Lionel (C2S) Envoyé : vendredi 30 octobre 2009 15:05 À : 'sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org' Objet : XO 1.5 hang on Type your name screen Hi all, I’ve just upgraded our XO 1.5 to q13a13 firmware and to os34. By the way, I’ve got two issues: - First: the system “hang” (no response from mouse and keyboard) when displaying the “Type your name” screen. - Second: I can’t stop the booting process. Pressing the check mark then the Esc key don’t stop the process. :-( Any idea to leave solve this ? Best regards from France. Lionel. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: open 80211s on XO 1.5
I can't quite understand the desire for definitive info combined with your disappointment that you don't have 1.5 rumors. I don't think we need rumors, and I and many other folks have been providing definitive info about 1.5 for some time. And about the mesh, etc. You don't say what topic it is on which you want the record set straight - if you need info, just ask. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO-1.5 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Mesh_Network_Details - Ed P.S. The 802.11s draft standard has certainly been implemented on other devices; no one suggests it is unique to the XO-1. What is special about the XO-1, AFAIK, is its ability to continue to operate as a mesh node (or MPP, mesh portal point) and forward packets while the laptop is otherwise shut down. The fundamental limitations on the utility of 802.11s in typical XO-1 scenarios, however, limit the value of this unique (I think) laptop feature. On Oct 30, 2009, at 4:12 PM, DancesWithCars wrote: I'd said to lots of people that the XO uses 802.11s mesh networking and eventually ran into someone rather geekie and otherwise impressively knowledgeable who corrected me that they didn't implement the whole standard (and people here say draft). The Marvel driver is said to be closed source, and RMS didn't like that, all of course rumor, and another rumor that the driver was open sourced. No rumors on the XO-1.5 yet, which is a shame. Even as hype and pre-release getting a buzz going would be nice. I don't have one, so can't test it to find out. Computer are supposed to be a Science, or so Knuth is credited by the ACM for helping to make that happen, documenting the fundamental algorithms and all... There are other mesh networking and someone once said to me that the 802.11s isn't that special that mesh OLR or somesuch protocols have been around for some time, but I'm guessing the XO is one of the bigger (~1 million XOs out there somewhere) publicly known implementations in that arena. So if someone / laptop.org wants to set the record straight and give definitive info, that would be great... On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Ed McNierney e...@laptop.org wrote: On Oct 30, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: scenarios of a handful of XOs in the under-a-tree model Sameer - Under a tree, using mesh networking is pointless (unless, I suppose, it is an extraordinarily large tree). Mesh networking allows packet forwarding from node A to node B, where such nodes cannot normally communicate with one another directly. Packets are forwarded through node C, visible to both A and B, or through multiple such intermediate nodes. If A can communicate with B, mesh is neither helpful nor advisable. It just confuses things, which is the problem we see with large numbers of children in a classroom. The mesh efforts to keep track of how to get from A to B can quickly saturate the RF spectrum with a lot of unhelpful traffic. I can't tell what it is you're doing at your meetings when your users all use mesh. At a typical in-person meeting, you have a number of people using XOs all in the same room. Any XO in the room can communicate over WiFi directly with every other machine in the room (except in extremely unusual circumstances, or too many attendees wearing their tinfoil hats). There's no need for or value to mesh network - A doesn't need C to forward packets to B because A can see B directly as another ad hoc node. If there's an AP providing routing to the Internet or other external networks, there's no mesh required there, either, presuming that each XO can communicate with the AP directly. I can't answer your question about whether those scenarios use ad hoc networking because I don't quite see what it is the users are doing in those scenarios. What (lowercase) activity are users engaged in when you say they all use mesh? What do you think they would be unable to do if they all stopped using mesh? Thanks for the info. - Ed ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- DancesWithCars leave the wolves behind ;-) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: open 80211s on XO 1.5
Thank you. And yes I'm conflicted. Your summary and experience give a good overview and I'll point people to the wiki.laptop.org if they need more info. Re: the XO 1.5 mesh implementation, compatibility with other XO 1.0 and an open source driver would be nice. Not that I plan on hacking it, as I'm not nearly that good, just sometimes around people who are rather good, and don't want to pass along bad info, if I can help it. On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Ed McNierney e...@laptop.org wrote: I can't quite understand the desire for definitive info combined with your disappointment that you don't have 1.5 rumors. I don't think we need rumors, and I and many other folks have been providing definitive info about 1.5 for some time. And about the mesh, etc. You don't say what topic it is on which you want the record set straight - if you need info, just ask. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO-1.5 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Mesh_Network_Details - Ed P.S. The 802.11s draft standard has certainly been implemented on other devices; no one suggests it is unique to the XO-1. What is special about the XO-1, AFAIK, is its ability to continue to operate as a mesh node (or MPP, mesh portal point) and forward packets while the laptop is otherwise shut down. The fundamental limitations on the utility of 802.11s in typical XO-1 scenarios, however, limit the value of this unique (I think) laptop feature. On Oct 30, 2009, at 4:12 PM, DancesWithCars wrote: I'd said to lots of people that the XO uses 802.11s mesh networking and eventually ran into someone rather geekie and otherwise impressively knowledgeable who corrected me that they didn't implement the whole standard (and people here say draft). The Marvel driver is said to be closed source, and RMS didn't like that, all of course rumor, and another rumor that the driver was open sourced. No rumors on the XO-1.5 yet, which is a shame. Even as hype and pre-release getting a buzz going would be nice. I don't have one, so can't test it to find out. Computer are supposed to be a Science, or so Knuth is credited by the ACM for helping to make that happen, documenting the fundamental algorithms and all... There are other mesh networking and someone once said to me that the 802.11s isn't that special that mesh OLR or somesuch protocols have been around for some time, but I'm guessing the XO is one of the bigger (~1 million XOs out there somewhere) publicly known implementations in that arena. So if someone / laptop.org wants to set the record straight and give definitive info, that would be great... On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 3:50 PM, Ed McNierney e...@laptop.org wrote: On Oct 30, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: scenarios of a handful of XOs in the under-a-tree model Sameer - Under a tree, using mesh networking is pointless (unless, I suppose, it is an extraordinarily large tree). Mesh networking allows packet forwarding from node A to node B, where such nodes cannot normally communicate with one another directly. Packets are forwarded through node C, visible to both A and B, or through multiple such intermediate nodes. If A can communicate with B, mesh is neither helpful nor advisable. It just confuses things, which is the problem we see with large numbers of children in a classroom. The mesh efforts to keep track of how to get from A to B can quickly saturate the RF spectrum with a lot of unhelpful traffic. I can't tell what it is you're doing at your meetings when your users all use mesh. At a typical in-person meeting, you have a number of people using XOs all in the same room. Any XO in the room can communicate over WiFi directly with every other machine in the room (except in extremely unusual circumstances, or too many attendees wearing their tinfoil hats). There's no need for or value to mesh network - A doesn't need C to forward packets to B because A can see B directly as another ad hoc node. If there's an AP providing routing to the Internet or other external networks, there's no mesh required there, either, presuming that each XO can communicate with the AP directly. I can't answer your question about whether those scenarios use ad hoc networking because I don't quite see what it is the users are doing in those scenarios. What (lowercase) activity are users engaged in when you say they all use mesh? What do you think they would be unable to do if they all stopped using mesh? Thanks for the info. - Ed ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- DancesWithCars leave the wolves behind ;-) -- DancesWithCars leave the wolves behind ;-) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OOM conditions
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 16:58, Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org wrote: In a LWN discussion thread on how google uses the kernel I found the following: == 2) Mike asked why the kernel tries so hard to allocate memory - why not just fail to allocate if there is too much pressure. Why isn't disabling overcommit enough? Posted Oct 24, 2009 1:26 UTC (Sat) by Tomasu (subscriber, #39889) [Link] 2) probably because they actually want some over-commit, but they don't want the OOM thread to go wild killing everything, and definitely not the WRONG thing. Posted Oct 25, 2009 19:24 UTC (Sun) by oak (subscriber, #2786) [Link] In the Maemo (at least Diablo release) kernel source there are configurable limits for when kernel starts to deny allocations and when to OOM-kill (besides notifying user-space about crossing of these and some earlier limits). If process is set as OOM-protected, its allocations will also always succeed. If OOM-protected processes waste all memory in the system, then they can also get killed. === Working the table at the Boston book festival I was reminded how painful the OOM stuff is on a gen 1. The demo machines were in this state a lot as each visitor would open up a new program. Basically you have to just turn the unit off and restart as trying to recover is futile. The 1GiB of memory on 1.5 will help with this somewhat but in most cases it just means that you shift the problem. Users being users will still open up too much and the 1GiB isn't an option for Gen 1.0 users. The OOM topic and what to do in that case has come up several times in the past. If Maemo thinks they have a reasonable solution to the problems then someone should look at trying to add that to our kernel and user space What if activities had a higher oom_score? Would that protect enough the processes that once killed require a system restart (X, shell, etc)? Maybe even have the background activities have a higher oom_score than the one in the foreground? Regards, Tomeu -- «Sugar Labs is anyone who participates in improving and using Sugar. What Sugar Labs does is determined by the participants.» - David Farning ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Sharing files among several XO
On 30.10.2009, at 09:27, Eben Eliason wrote: On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 9:11 AM, Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de wrote: On 29.10.2009, at 16:23, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: 2009/10/29 Bert Freudenberg b...@freudenbergs.de: On 29.10.2009, at 02:47, Hilaire Fernandes wrote: Under Etoys, If I keep down the mouse button and choose Save under another name (I am not sure about the exact message), and save the project with another name, then in the journal the previous instance of the project is replaced with this new one. I will check again tonight. Note: Pay attention I am not just using the Keep button Why?! Because I need it to conduct test and I want to be sure to save another instance of the project, under another name. No, I meant why you don't simply click the Keep button. Btw, I can confirm you renaming the project in Etoys toolbar then saving does not produce another instance everytime. For me it does, every time. Can you write up steps to reproduce the problem? The modus operendi of the journal does not looks intuitive to me, but well it does not count really as I am not the typical target audiance. Hilaire Be that as it may I still think Etoys should follow the Sugar conventions closely. And as far as I know it does. If clicking the Keep button does not save another copy every time you click it, that's a bug. Mind I'm not talking about the save menu item, just the Keep button. Hi Bert, It sounds like Etoys is behaving appropriately. However, perhaps part of the solution is just in naming this other feature that causing confusion. What does it do exactly? Perhaps save isn't the right term for it. Also, I understand uploading to Squeakland, but how does save to a file differ from Keep? Eben It saves to a file, not to the Journal. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: wlan interface (was: first play with new XO 1.5 machines)
I mean the clock in the 802.11 MAC sublayer. This defines the basis of the timing synchronization function (TSF) which is a core part of 802.11. Without synchronized clocks, nodes cannot communicate. I talked with one of the 802.11 experts I know. He's quite sure that there should be no problem on Atheros hardware at least. He has no problem transmitting arbitrary packets at arbitrary times and no problem receiving packets either. is that you get just one channel at a time. ... The TSF stuff looks like an optimization that you don't really need, except perhaps when sending to a receiver that stops listening at certain times. Lame hardware misses out, no surprise. It's for power saving. When 802.11 is used with an access point, the access point can be asked to buffer up frames for battery powered stations, and send an indication in its periodic beacons. The station wakes up for each beacon and can sleep the rest of the time. In addition, 802.11e provides more power-save modes (APSD). See this paper: http://www.redpinesignals.com/VoWiFi-Implementation-with-Single-Stream-802-11n.pdf I don't think that XO-1 WiFi chips ever did any power saving. Don't know about XO-1.5. John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
OFW upgrade without a keyboard
Remove all power and wait is by far the easiest way to reset a keyboard, but ... If one really could not get the keyboard to work, but wanted to upgrade the firmware anyway, here is a recipe: a) Get a USB stick, ideally factory-formatted with a FAT filesystem, but ext2 will work too. b) Put the firmware file, e.g. q3a15.rom, in the root directory of that stick. c) Create a file /boot/olpc.fth on that stick, containing these two lines: \ OLPC boot script flash u:\q3a15.rom The important feature of the first line is that it must begin with the two-character sequence backslash space. d) Insert the stick into the XO and let it auto-boot. e) When the machine resets after the reflashing, remove the stick f) Delete or rename the /boot/olpc.fth file so that stick won't cause an auto-reflash the next time you insert it. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: wlan interface (was: first play with new XO 1.5 machines)
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 8:45 PM, John Gilmore g...@toad.com wrote: I talked with one of the 802.11 experts I know. He's quite sure that there should be no problem on Atheros hardware at least. He has no problem transmitting arbitrary packets at arbitrary times and no problem receiving packets either. Now I've talked to 5 experts, including one who was involved in the standardization efforts. They all agree that it should be possible, but all expect driver problems. Firmware can ruin things. The recommended setup is an Atheros chipset with the madwifi drivers. You generally need to get the firmware into promiscuous (sniffer) mode, which is not always documented. You'd be essentially doing VAP (virtual access point) stuff; so VAP is the capability to look for. Marvell generally doesn't support promiscuous mode, but the XO firmware did get that feature added at one point. I don't know if it's still there in the thinmac firmware and the XO 1.5 firmware, but at least the classic XO setup could do it. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OOM conditions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Richard A. Smith wrote: Working the table at the Boston book festival I was reminded how painful the OOM stuff is on a gen 1. The OOM problem on Gen 1 is a True Kernel Bug. The problem is that the OOM killer just isn't working. Almost all the time, it fails to kill _any_ process, and instead just locks up the machine. I believe Andres was able to connect via a serial port during one of these events, and observed the kswapd process in an uninterruptible sleep (a.k.a. state D). This should never happen. There has been a significant amount of churn in the OOM system over the past few years, and a number of bugs are known to have been created and resolved. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever precisely identified whether the XO's problem is due to one of them. Until recently, there was no newer XO kernel with which to test. It would be worthwhile to observe the F11-XO1 builds' behavior at OOM, to see if there has been an improvement. - --Ben -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.11 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkrrwMsACgkQUJT6e6HFtqTW1gCdHsEpOD5djVFtq0k3h8z6BqvE aC4An3Sp0c+lpwmkNBoxDNEct3z5bfe4 =/INZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
