Re: Marvell 88W8388 USB Development Dongles

2009-12-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 5:29 PM, vbx dev vbx...@gmail.com wrote:
 OLPC XO-1 uses the Marvell 88W8388 USB wireless adapter. I want to
 contribute to the development of the libertas/libertas-tf driver for
 this wireless adapter.

 Could I buy a few 88W8388 USB development dongles from OLPC to get
 started? Thanks.

Yes! There is definitely interest in getting the tf driver going with
modern kernels (specially the kernel revisions in use in our F11
images!) to use hostap mode.

With hostap mode, an XO-1 can be an excellent mini-XS. (Without it, it
does work, but is limited to supporting XO-1s with 8.2.x series OSs).

cheers,


m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Ticket 8104

2009-12-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Cecilia Abalde
caba...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote:
 I download the patch, then run rpm-ivh Name patch but there is a problem
 with the files:
...
 Any ideas ???

Yes - you are trying to upgrade the RPM, instead of installing a
previously not installed package, so do

  rpm -Uvh FooBar-1.2.3.rpm

(note the U instead of the i )

Two interesting tidbits  -

 - Daniel Drake (cc'd) suspects the bug has not been fixed upstream
(the latest NM/dbus pairing seems to have similar issues). So a
similar issue may exist in the F11 images. I don't know if he's filed
a corresponding ticket on dev.laptop.org --- we should have it filed,
and the two bugs should mention eachother...

 - The RPM you are grabbing also fixes http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9715

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Sun, Dec 27, 2009 at 9:56 PM, John Gilmore g...@toad.com wrote:
             I would argue that an operating system that doesn't
 natively host its development tools is not appropriate for OLPC's
 target audience.

 Does the XO-1 host its own development tools?  I don't think anyone
 has ever rebuilt the system from source code on an XO-1.  I don't even
 know anyone outside the OLPC office who *has* the source code for an
 XO-1 software release.

Ahem! I call BS on that. I have rebuilt all sorts of parts of the
8.2.1 release, from publicly available SRPMs (I am not physically at
OLPC's offices, and I don't have access to hidden servers).

I will grant you that it might be a bit disorganized. I've had to
google around a few times -- some specific RPMs are in Koji for
example, and it's not always easy to find them unless you know they
are there (Google doesn't crawl Koji very deeply, probably a
reasonable defence against a crawler DoS). But all the source is out
there.

If there is something you are missining, ask about it, it might take
some digging but it'll be found. (With the exception of the libertas
firmware -- but that's a different battle altogether.)

Rebuilding all the component rpms on an XO is entirely possible given
some swap and an external disk.  Running an anaconda compose
(anaconda/rpm are big memory hogs) to make an installable jffs2 image
is also quite likely to succeed -- though there are a few kinks that
are not safe to take for granted.

cheers,


m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread NoiseEHC

 Actually, no. The .class - .dex compiler consumes an enormous amount of
 memory, so it is out of the question at least for now.

 How much is enormous ?  A laptop/tablet is likely to have more than
 a smartphone...


With hundreds of classes in a .jar to convert it uses some 256M, with 
thousands it uses more than 1GB... (Likely it will be optimized in the 
future though.) Another problem is that those development tools use such 
native APIs which are not supported by the Android NDK (Native DevKit). 
So either those tools (like the java runtime or the make program) should 
be ported to the NDK (but why waste so much effort on this?) or the 
development environment should be installed in the system image. The 
latter one just wastes flash and probably opens up some nice security holes.

 However what I do not get is why would it be good for an education 
 project if it would be
 self hosting at all? As I see an education project's main goal is to
 support creating quality educational resources (like curricula) cheaply,
 is not it?

 You can't deny kids the ability to create their own activities 
 (applications, whatever)
 Pippy is an example of a simple way to introduce kids to activity 
 programming in
 python, allowing them to easily create and share activities.

You can still create applications with
http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/

With the existing tools it is true that children cannot create the same 
quality applications what is possible with the Android SDK environment 
(even if we include a ported Etoys, TurtleArt and Karma), but they could 
create and share applications with the currently existing tools so what 
is the problem? The problem with self hosted activity development is the 
nonexistent development environment rather than the limited 
functionality. Even if the compilers will be ported to the Android NDK, 
Eclipse will never be ported so programming Android on the XO-3 (or 
XO-1.7) will be just as painful as programming Sugar with Pippy today. A 
much more simple solution would be just shipping a full fledged Linux PC 
to every school and let children log into it with VNC. So the ~3% of 
children who can become programmers would be able to develop the same 
applications (with Eclipse) what we can and the rest of the children 
would just use some simplified environment like scripting...


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Ticket 8104

2009-12-28 Thread Cecilia Abalde
Thank you very much !!

cheers,
Cecilia

2009/12/28 Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com

 On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Cecilia Abalde
 caba...@plan.ceibal.edu.uy wrote:
  I download the patch, then run rpm-ivh Name patch but there is a
 problem
  with the files:
 ...
  Any ideas ???

 Yes - you are trying to upgrade the RPM, instead of installing a
 previously not installed package, so do

  rpm -Uvh FooBar-1.2.3.rpm

 (note the U instead of the i )

 Two interesting tidbits  -

  - Daniel Drake (cc'd) suspects the bug has not been fixed upstream
 (the latest NM/dbus pairing seems to have similar issues). So a
 similar issue may exist in the F11 images. I don't know if he's filed
 a corresponding ticket on dev.laptop.org --- we should have it filed,
 and the two bugs should mention eachother...

  - The RPM you are grabbing also fixes http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9715

 cheers,



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Re: [Sugar-devel] Ticket 8104

2009-12-28 Thread Daniel Drake
On Mon, 2009-12-28 at 09:46 +0100, Martin Langhoff wrote:
  - Daniel Drake (cc'd) suspects the bug has not been fixed upstream
 (the latest NM/dbus pairing seems to have similar issues). So a
 similar issue may exist in the F11 images. I don't know if he's filed
 a corresponding ticket on dev.laptop.org --- we should have it filed,
 and the two bugs should mention eachother...

In #9750 I did testing and found that even though the bug still exists
in the latest code, it seems near-impossible to trigger.

Daniel


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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread John Watlington

On Dec 28, 2009, at 8:54 AM, NoiseEHC wrote:

 You can still create applications with
 http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/

 With the existing tools it is true that children cannot create the  
 same quality applications what is possible with the Android SDK  
 environment (even if we include a ported Etoys, TurtleArt and  
 Karma), but they could create and share applications with the  
 currently existing tools so what is the problem? The problem with  
 self hosted activity development is the nonexistent development  
 environment rather than the limited functionality. Even if the  
 compilers will be ported to the Android NDK, Eclipse will never be  
 ported so programming Android on the XO-3 (or XO-1.7) will be just  
 as painful as programming Sugar with Pippy today. A much more  
 simple solution would be just shipping a full fledged Linux PC to  
 every school and let children log into it with VNC.

Ahem.   With XO-1.5, I feel that I AM shipping a full-fledged Linux  
PC to every child.
Since when did it take more than a GB of RAM and 4GB of disk to host  
an IDE ?

My point still stands: until Android supports its own development  
tools, you are
turning it's users into second class citizens.

Cheers,
wad

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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread John Watlington

I just installed Fedora Eclipse on an XO-1.5 and launched it
under Gnome.Granted, I ran into #9927 (/var/cache/yum too small)...

Cheers,
wad

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Re: User workflow sharing Journal Entries over USB sticks

2009-12-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
Aleksey, List,

Hope everyone is relaxing, enjoying and not reading the list... if you
are... might be the right time to wake up from the excesses of
Christmas celebrations :-)

Looks like everyone forgot about these patches of mine. I've now
posted them as http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1636 -- the patches
haven't changed but the r? might draw some attention.

My old post below is still very relevant, and my notes after it, plus
a request for help.

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have 4 patches that fix this up so that we DTRT - attached in
 http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9657

    * 0001-Removable-disk-Save-metadata-and-preview-dlo-9657.patch
    * 0002-Removable-disk-read-json-formatted-.metadata-and-.pr.patch
    * 0003-Removable-disk-Handle-renames-dlo-9657.patch
    * 0004-Removable-disk-delete-preview-and-metadata-dlo-9657.patch

 With this

    * We save the files with their correct metadata
    * Read the metadata back, display it, copy it correctly into the
 DS, and search descriptions/tags if the user runs a search
    * Renames and removes are handled correctly on-disk
 (metadata/preview files are renamed or removed

The above approach stems from long discussion in this same thread. If
your email proggy doesn't do threads nicely, see
http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2009-November/thread.html#20729

These patches fix the problem in the core code. There are two UI
glitches, and I am needing help in sorting them out, 'cause I don't
understand the OO-ish approach used in Journal UI. See below:

 The results are not perfect, as we have UI glitches -- on delete the
 file listing doesn't remove the file 'collapsedentry'; on rename, the
 new name is shown until you touch the scrollbar, there it reverts to
 the old name.

 To fix those UI glitches we need to issue a message to the
 InplaceResultSet instance somehow... except that we don't have a
 handle to it. I also attempted to do something like
 http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/commits/b0113bf67c31dbeaa08cf0f1710c1be8d02a9b25
 which sure looks right, but didn't work for me.

 Triggering these actions from the UI widget objects makes it all
 overly confusing to a newcomer like me. The ocassional dbus message
 makes it even more entertaining.

 In any case, the patches bring the backend behaviour to correctness.
 With some help we can also address the UI glitches (or punt and deal
 with them with later).

and the patches will be soon followed by other patches that allow 0.84
read from 0.82-written USB disks, so that teachers that have saved
their files on a USB stick before upgrade can use them.

cheers,


m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:07 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:
 Ahem.   With XO-1.5, I feel that I AM shipping a full-fledged Linux
 PC to every child.
 Since when did it take more than a GB of RAM and 4GB of disk to host
 an IDE ?

I think that was Emacs 23.

j/k. ;-)
 --scott

-- 
 ( http://cscott.net/ )
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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 7:25 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
 j/k. ;-)

emacs is what I am using on both XO-1 and XO-1.5 so pretty good going
;-) (Along with vim! Peace!)

Lots of people here want to claim we need Eclipse to have an IDE. Of
all the developers involved in the whole Linux
kernel+Fedora+Sugar+OLPC custom bits, the incidence of Eclipse usage
is  vanishingly small.

You don't need Eclipse to create this software stack, and it is
clearly not particularly desirable or ideal for most of the developers
that actually built it.

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread Paul Fox
martin wrote:
  On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 7:25 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
   j/k. ;-)
  
  emacs is what I am using on both XO-1 and XO-1.5 so pretty good going
  ;-) (Along with vim! Peace!)
  
  Lots of people here want to claim we need Eclipse to have an IDE. Of
  all the developers involved in the whole Linux
  kernel+Fedora+Sugar+OLPC custom bits, the incidence of Eclipse usage
  is  vanishingly small.
  
  You don't need Eclipse to create this software stack, and it is
  clearly not particularly desirable or ideal for most of the developers
  that actually built it.

sure.  but it's not the current developers that are at issue -- they're
almost by definition happy with the tools at hand.  (did i really
just say that?  where's my 3D data structure visualizer when i
need it??)  it's the ability of kids to explore and learn about
programming that we're talking about.  never having used
eclipse, i can't say its suitable.  but it has to be more
discoverable than vi, id-utils, and gdb.

paul
=-
 paul fox, p...@laptop.org
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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread John Watlington

On Dec 28, 2009, at 1:53 PM, Paul Fox wrote:

 martin wrote:
 On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 7:25 PM, C. Scott Ananian  
 csc...@laptop.org wrote:
 j/k. ;-)

 emacs is what I am using on both XO-1 and XO-1.5 so pretty good going
 ;-) (Along with vim! Peace!)

 Lots of people here want to claim we need Eclipse to have an  
 IDE. Of
 all the developers involved in the whole Linux
 kernel+Fedora+Sugar+OLPC custom bits, the incidence of Eclipse usage
 is  vanishingly small.

 You don't need Eclipse to create this software stack, and it is
 clearly not particularly desirable or ideal for most of the  
 developers
 that actually built it.

 sure.  but it's not the current developers that are at issue --  
 they're
 almost by definition happy with the tools at hand.  (did i really
 just say that?  where's my 3D data structure visualizer when i
 need it??)  it's the ability of kids to explore and learn about
 programming that we're talking about.  never having used
 eclipse, i can't say its suitable.  but it has to be more
 discoverable than vi, id-utils, and gdb.

Exactly why I wanted to see if it could be installed and used.

Emacs forever ! (although it has gotten huge)
wad
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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread Paul Fox
wad wrote:
  
  Emacs forever ! (although it has gotten huge)

hmm.  how's its Flash player?  :-)

=-
 paul fox, p...@laptop.org
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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread John Gilmore
  Since when did it take more than a GB of RAM and 4GB of disk to host
  an IDE ?
 
 I think that was Emacs 23.

No, that was Eight Megs and Continuously Swapping.  I.e. in an
amazingly large and expensive Sun Workstation with 8 *megabytes* of
RAM, emacs would still make the system page-fault at a high rate.

Those young 2nd-graders just don't know what they're missing...  Why
in my day, we had to disassemble 6502 machine language just to peek
and poke the screen into high-resolution character graphics mode.
We had to put little pieces of tape over the holes in our punch-cards
to save paper.  Solar powered gigabyte WiFi Linux machines?  Our
school's calculators had neon NIXIE tube displays!

John
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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread Neil Graham
On Mon, 2009-12-28 at 19:38 +0100, Martin Langhoff wrote:
 emacs is what I am using on both XO-1 and XO-1.5 so pretty good going
 ;-) (Along with vim! Peace!)
 
 Lots of people here want to claim we need Eclipse to have an IDE. Of
 all the developers involved in the whole Linux
 kernel+Fedora+Sugar+OLPC custom bits, the incidence of Eclipse usage
 is  vanishingly small.

I have tried to do the bulk of my development actually on an XO (well
until I got retina problems anyway, the screen gives me a bit of trouble
now). 

It may not be up to running behemoths like Eclipse, but I've considered
that to be Eclipse's problem more than the XO's.  

I do Pascal development mainly, Which suits the XO nicely for compile
times and execution speed.  On the XO I use MSEIDE which does a
reasonably good.  

See here for a demo of the IDE and easy project creation,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMtleAzJ3AE

That clip makes a new Window and buttons style program, and a new
animated game style program. 

That clip was not actually running on the XO, I run it on my Ubuntu box
for screen capture purposes.   To see the same system running on my XO
(recorded with a crappy camera), watch
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD95e9G1SiQ

I did a Ludum Dare 48 hour game competition on the XO, Doing all
programming on the XO itself 
screenshot --
http://www.ludumdare.com/compo/wp-content/compo2/6952/20-shot0.jpg

So a good level of development is possible on the system,  I'm ok if the
operating system itself gets built on a more powerful system, but I'd
really prefer most applications that specifically target the XO be
developed on the XO hardware.  This I'd consider especially true for
sugar apps.  They should be developed in sugar, on an XO wherever
possible.  



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Re: User workflow sharing Journal Entries over USB sticks

2009-12-28 Thread Aleksey Lim
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 07:25:21PM +0100, Martin Langhoff wrote:
 Aleksey, List,
 
 Hope everyone is relaxing, enjoying and not reading the list... if you
 are... might be the right time to wake up from the excesses of
 Christmas celebrations :-)
 
 Looks like everyone forgot about these patches of mine. I've now
 posted them as http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1636 -- the patches
 haven't changed but the r? might draw some attention.
 
 My old post below is still very relevant, and my notes after it, plus
 a request for help.
 
 On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Martin Langhoff
 martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
   I have 4 patches that fix this up so that we DTRT - attached in
  http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9657
 
     * 0001-Removable-disk-Save-metadata-and-preview-dlo-9657.patch
     * 0002-Removable-disk-read-json-formatted-.metadata-and-.pr.patch
     * 0003-Removable-disk-Handle-renames-dlo-9657.patch
     * 0004-Removable-disk-delete-preview-and-metadata-dlo-9657.patch
 
  With this
 
     * We save the files with their correct metadata
     * Read the metadata back, display it, copy it correctly into the
  DS, and search descriptions/tags if the user runs a search
     * Renames and removes are handled correctly on-disk
  (metadata/preview files are renamed or removed
 
 The above approach stems from long discussion in this same thread. If
 your email proggy doesn't do threads nicely, see
 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2009-November/thread.html#20729
 
 These patches fix the problem in the core code. There are two UI
 glitches, and I am needing help in sorting them out, 'cause I don't
 understand the OO-ish approach used in Journal UI. See below:
 
  The results are not perfect, as we have UI glitches -- on delete the
  file listing doesn't remove the file 'collapsedentry';

I've uploaded patch with minor fixes and delete fix
(b0113bf67c31dbeaa08cf0f1710c1be8d02a9b25 should be cherry-picked)

 on rename, the
  new name is shown until you touch the scrollbar, there it reverts to
  the old name.

to last sucrose-0.84, was backported 0.86 patch
(f93c9de3ff6b7d7f1730c5056b0b4fae9f00a201) which prevents any
editing of non-ds object, so we need to decide should we rollback this
patch at first otherwise we need to remove redundant rename related
code from #1636 patch

  To fix those UI glitches we need to issue a message to the
  InplaceResultSet instance somehow... except that we don't have a
  handle to it. I also attempted to do something like
  http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/sugar/repos/mainline/commits/b0113bf67c31dbeaa08cf0f1710c1be8d02a9b25
  which sure looks right, but didn't work for me.
 
  Triggering these actions from the UI widget objects makes it all
  overly confusing to a newcomer like me. The ocassional dbus message
  makes it even more entertaining.
 
  In any case, the patches bring the backend behaviour to correctness.
  With some help we can also address the UI glitches (or punt and deal
  with them with later).
 
 and the patches will be soon followed by other patches that allow 0.84
 read from 0.82-written USB disks, so that teachers that have saved
 their files on a USB stick before upgrade can use them.
 
 cheers,
 
 
 m
 -- 
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
 

-- 
Aleksey
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Need Live CD to take to Argentina

2009-12-28 Thread Caryl Bigenho

H All i...


Did this ever get implemented? If so where do I find it? Are there any special 
instructions I need to make and use the live CD? Can a usb stick be used for 
file storage?


http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.84/Sugar_LiveCD


I would like to be able to take several copies with me to give to a tech person 
at an elementary school in Buenos Aires when I go there in mid-January.


Thanks,


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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread NoiseEHC

 Ahem.   With XO-1.5, I feel that I AM shipping a full-fledged Linux 
 PC to every child.
 Since when did it take more than a GB of RAM and 4GB of disk to host 
 an IDE ?

 My point still stands: until Android supports its own development 
 tools, you are
 turning it's users into second class citizens.
Ahem. So you have installed Eclipse under Sugar and somehow developed 
and debugged a Sugar application what is nice... Wait! You did not!

So if we just ignore your Straw Man argument (you know what I have said 
that you need GBs or RAM to run the dx optimizer tool, not the IDE), the 
problem is still there that you only can run an usable development 
environment on a full Linux distro and you cannot even develop Sugar 
applications with it.

For the other people talking about IDEs: an usable IDE is not a text 
editor. The whole problem stems from the simple fact that you think that 
an IDE is just a text editor. While it is possible to develop 
applications even with ed (I used mcedit myself), I would rather poke my 
eyes out than to try to develop anything with Pippy again. What you do 
not want to recognize is that you are excluding a lot of developers who 
do not want to waste their time because of the lack of IDEs. In other 
words: because of resource constraints you have not made contributing 
code easy so you have resource constraints now.

ps:
And please stop this who started developing code in more painful 
environments race. I myself created several world records on the c64 
some 15+ years ago so I know exactly what was the norm at that time. But 
somehow I do not think that I can waste 10x the required time just 
because there were not more productive development environments existing 
then.

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Re: Android, OLPC, and native hosting

2009-12-28 Thread Bert Freudenberg
On 29.12.2009, at 01:47, NoiseEHC wrote:
 
 
 Ahem.   With XO-1.5, I feel that I AM shipping a full-fledged Linux 
 PC to every child.
 Since when did it take more than a GB of RAM and 4GB of disk to host 
 an IDE ?
 
 My point still stands: until Android supports its own development 
 tools, you are
 turning it's users into second class citizens.
 Ahem. So you have installed Eclipse under Sugar and somehow developed 
 and debugged a Sugar application what is nice... Wait! You did not!
 
 So if we just ignore your Straw Man argument (you know what I have said 
 that you need GBs or RAM to run the dx optimizer tool, not the IDE), the 
 problem is still there that you only can run an usable development 
 environment on a full Linux distro and you cannot even develop Sugar 
 applications with it.
 
 For the other people talking about IDEs: an usable IDE is not a text 
 editor. The whole problem stems from the simple fact that you think that 
 an IDE is just a text editor. While it is possible to develop 
 applications even with ed (I used mcedit myself), I would rather poke my 
 eyes out than to try to develop anything with Pippy again. What you do 
 not want to recognize is that you are excluding a lot of developers who 
 do not want to waste their time because of the lack of IDEs. In other 
 words: because of resource constraints you have not made contributing 
 code easy so you have resource constraints now.

Are you aware the XO ships a full Smalltalk IDE? You know, like VisualAge which 
later became Eclipse? It's hidden in the Etoys activity, but (surprise!) it's 
a kids laptop. The software is designed for learning. *That* is what Sugar was 
created for, which is not at all what Android was created for, as you claimed 
when starting this discussion.

- Bert -

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Re: Need Live CD to take to Argentina

2009-12-28 Thread satyaakam goswami
I would like to be able to take several copies with me to give to a tech
 person at an elementary school in Buenos Aires when I go there in
 mid-January.


 Thanks,


check these out

http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Strawberry
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick



satyaakam.net
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Re: #9927 LOW Future : filesystem has trouble with large yum installs

2009-12-28 Thread John Watlington

While #9927 is personally interesting to me, can I instead
divert your attention to the logs I just posted for #9865 ?

Tmw. I will be in a position to verify this bug on a largish
number of C1 machines, and can hand off the poster child (prebuild #2)
to someone else.

I would blame hardware, but why does it only happen when
OHMD is doing the suspending ?

Cheers,
wad

On Dec 28, 2009, at 9:54 PM, Zarro Boogs per Child wrote:

 #9927: filesystem has trouble with large yum installs
  
 +---
Reporter:  wad   |   Owner:
Type:  defect|  Status:  new
Priority:  low   |   Milestone:  Future Release
   Component:  not assigned  | Version:  1.5-B2
  Resolution:|Keywords:  yum XO-1.5
 Next_action:  design|Verified:  0
 Deployment_affected:|   Blockedby:
Blocking:|
  
 +---

 Comment(by cjb):

  Replying to [comment:3 Quozl]:
 (b) to reduce the amount of SD writes.

  A non-issue.

 -- 
 Ticket URL: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/9927#comment:4
 One Laptop Per Child http://laptop.org/
 OLPC bug tracking system


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Re: #9927 LOW Future : filesystem has trouble with large yum installs

2009-12-28 Thread James Cameron
Have you tried with timeouts.timer_rtcwake set to zero yet?

My current gut feel based on 9865_1.txt is that there is a race of sorts
between rtcwake and the apparent removal of the block device for the SD
card.  But I'm no expert there.

-- 
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http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: #9927 LOW Future : filesystem has trouble with large yum installs

2009-12-28 Thread John Watlington

Good intuition.  That stopped the crashing...

On Dec 28, 2009, at 10:22 PM, James Cameron wrote:

 Have you tried with timeouts.timer_rtcwake set to zero yet?

 My current gut feel based on 9865_1.txt is that there is a race of  
 sorts
 between rtcwake and the apparent removal of the block device for  
 the SD
 card.  But I'm no expert there.

 -- 
 James Cameron
 http://quozl.linux.org.au/

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Re: #9927 LOW Future : filesystem has trouble with large yum installs

2009-12-28 Thread Chris Ball
Hi,

While #9927 is personally interesting to me, can I instead divert
your attention to the logs I just posted for #9865 ?

Looks identical to the bug (#9702) with 3.3V not coming up fast enough
to successfully resume the internal SD card.  We should check that
your C1 brings up the 3.3V rail quickly enough.

Tmw. I will be in a position to verify this bug on a largish
number of C1 machines, and can hand off the poster child
(prebuild #2) to someone else.

I would blame hardware, but why does it only happen when OHMD is
doing the suspending ?

If we convince ourselves that it really does only happen with ohm, and
also only with rtcwake mixed with autowack, and doesn't happen on B2s
in the same configuration, we might find that we have #1835-like
problems when mixing autowack with an ohmd rtcwake immediately after
suspend hits -- we can get a resume happening below the EC's
autowack-delay in that case, which is known to cause problems.

I suppose the answer in that case would be don't do that.
Richard, what do you think?

- Chris.
-- 
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One Laptop Per Child
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Re: #9927 LOW Future : filesystem has trouble with large yum installs

2009-12-28 Thread Paul Fox
john wrote:
  
  Good intuition.  That stopped the crashing...
  
  On Dec 28, 2009, at 10:22 PM, James Cameron wrote:
  
   Have you tried with timeouts.timer_rtcwake set to zero yet?
  
   My current gut feel based on 9865_1.txt is that there is a
   race of sorts between rtcwake and the apparent removal of
   the block device for the SD card.  But I'm no expert there.

huh?  i thought it was happening with idle-suspend disabled.

paul
=-
 paul fox, p...@laptop.org
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Re: #9927 LOW Future : filesystem has trouble with large yum installs

2009-12-28 Thread John Watlington

On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:15 PM, Chris Ball wrote:

 Hi,

 While #9927 is personally interesting to me, can I instead divert
 your attention to the logs I just posted for #9865 ?

 Looks identical to the bug (#9702) with 3.3V not coming up fast enough
 to successfully resume the internal SD card.  We should check that
 your C1 brings up the 3.3V rail quickly enough.

 Tmw. I will be in a position to verify this bug on a largish
 number of C1 machines, and can hand off the poster child
 (prebuild #2) to someone else.

 I would blame hardware, but why does it only happen when OHMD is
 doing the suspending ?

 If we convince ourselves that it really does only happen with ohm, and
 also only with rtcwake mixed with autowack, and doesn't happen on B2s
 in the same configuration, we might find that we have #1835-like
 problems when mixing autowack with an ohmd rtcwake immediately after
 suspend hits -- we can get a resume happening below the EC's
 autowack-delay in that case, which is known to cause problems.

 I suppose the answer in that case would be don't do that.
 Richard, what do you think?

Naw.  I say we hunt it down and kill it.

Probably a rail that needs a little help decaying.

wad

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Re: #9927 LOW Future : filesystem has trouble with large yum installs

2009-12-28 Thread John Watlington

On Dec 28, 2009, at 11:15 PM, Chris Ball wrote:

 Hi,

 While #9927 is personally interesting to me, can I instead divert
 your attention to the logs I just posted for #9865 ?

 Looks identical to the bug (#9702) with 3.3V not coming up fast enough
 to successfully resume the internal SD card.  We should check that
 your C1 brings up the 3.3V rail quickly enough.

More likely it isn't dropping far enough.

 If we convince ourselves that it really does only happen with ohm, and
 also only with rtcwake mixed with autowack, and doesn't happen on B2s
 in the same configuration, we might find that we have #1835-like
 problems when mixing autowack with an ohmd rtcwake immediately after
 suspend hits -- we can get a resume happening below the EC's
 autowack-delay in that case, which is known to cause problems.

I don't believe that it is known to cause problems.
test-wackup-ec was designed to flush those problems
out at the hardware level, and verifies that the VX855
properly handles resume events while still shutting down.
It uses a PWRGD input signal to close the loop with external
power supply decay times.

wad

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os100 ?

2009-12-28 Thread Mikus Grinbergs
I see mention being made of os100.  What is it?  Where is it ?

mikus
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Re: os100 ?

2009-12-28 Thread Chris Ball
Hi,

I see mention being made of os100.  What is it?  Where is it ?

It's the first build of what will eventually become the 10.2.0 release,
but it hasn't been released yet -- that will probably happen tomorrow.

- Chris.
-- 
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One Laptop Per Child
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Re: os100 ?

2009-12-28 Thread James Cameron
It is the first release of the new build system, but it is not yet
announced.  It will be announced eventually.

-- 
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http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [IAEP] Need Live CD to take to Argentina

2009-12-28 Thread Aleksey Lim
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 03:47:25PM -0800, Caryl Bigenho wrote:
 
 H All i...
 
 
 Did this ever get implemented? If so where do I find it? Are there any 
 special instructions I need to make and use the live CD? Can a usb stick be 
 used for file storage?

If you need livecd only because machines don't support boot from usb,
http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_on_a_Stick/Blueberry#Boot_Helper
and use usb sitck as if you booted from usb(i.e. your system will be
located on usb)

Otherwise just burn soas's iso to cd and use usb stick as a regular
external storage(but there is an issue w/ storing journal objects on
external sources, see http://bugs.sugarlabs.org/ticket/1636).

 
 
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.84/Sugar_LiveCD
 
 
 I would like to be able to take several copies with me to give to a tech 
 person at an elementary school in Buenos Aires when I go there in mid-January.
 
 
 Thanks,
 
 
 Caryl   

 ___
 IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!)
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 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep


-- 
Aleksey
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Re: [Server-devel] Various / PDF resources in Moodle

2009-12-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:47 AM, David Leeming
da...@leeming-consulting.com wrote:
 A Todays files folder would be
 useful

Sounds right. You can make that now, by hand, and add a link to it
from the homepage, or from the top section of the course.

 (1) what happens if the version on the XS is different (higher or lower)
 than a version one already on the XO? Do you get duplicates or does the
 latest downloaded/run version preside?

You might get duplicate downloads in the Journal (delete them from the
Journal to avoid wasted space). Sugar will have only one installed.

 (2) how can one upload an activity to a folder on the XS from an XO?

I think Sugar 0.82 (which is what you have) doesn't have a workflow
to do this, unless you have it in the Journal (freshly downloaded).
This is an important gap IMHO, can I suggest you confirm that with the
Sugar developers (they may ask you file a bug in dev.sugarlabs.org
...)

 (3) What is the location on the XS of site files and course files, in case I
 want to load stuff manually?

Ummm, don't do that, it will lead to trouble. Once we have Moodle 2.0
it'll include my WebDAV support code, so you can do it safely via
WebDAV.

 Here is a combined report on several related non-critical issues.

Thanks. Please please please... file them as bugs as well (copy with
my comments too if you want). This is so that, if they are things that
cannot be addressed immediately, we don't drop them on the floor.

 Firstly, I took note of your suggestion and updated my four XOs (2 B4s and 2
 C1s) using 802/2QE41 and the latest version of the activities. I upgraded
 all of them using the same memory stick using the fresh install method (four
 game keys on boot). So they should have been identical software wise.

Yes.

 I discovered two issues in this process.

 (1) It's difficult to know which are the latest stable versions of
 activities as the OLPC and Sugar activities pages differ (unless I missed
 the small print). Sugar has more advanced versions. However, I noted that
 you referred to Browse 102 which is the current version on the OLPC wiki for
 that activity. I decided to use the OLPC wiki Activities page for all the
 G1G1 core activities and the Sugar site latest versions for the rest. I
 have yet to test them all but all seem OK so far. SO, I am using Browse 102
 and Read 56.

That may be a bug on ASLO.

 (2) At risk of seeming to make a fuss out of nothing, this issue has the
 potential to cause a lot of confusion and time wasting
...
 The downloads had
 terminated partway through, however with no indication of anything amiss. I
 used a download manager and re-downloaded the ones that had failed to
...
 Can the downloads
 be provided in a more reliable way so that one knows that one has got the
 full file? Or otherwise recommend people to use download managers.

Um. HTTP is perfectly sane, your problem is with the problem you used
for your download. The download was truncated, and it didn't tell you,
or it did, and you didn't see it (bad UI? distraction at the wrong
time?).

Zipfiles are self-validating, and from what you are saying Sugar did
give you a good visual cue that the install had not been correct, so
that side is covered...

 Now to the other issues.

 (A) PDFs uploaded to Moodle folders always open in the Rainbow-Daemon
 dialogue when you left click on the links. If you go to hyperlinks on HTML
 pages either in my local public folders or out on the net, a PDF file always
 opens in the Browse version of PDF reader when you left click on it. In all
 my tests it is fully reproducable using both B4 and C1s. I would prefer them
 to open in Read activity, which has but it's not a huge problem, they are
 very similar. One can also Keep and then open from the Journal. But why the
 rainbow-daemon window?

Ok, so you are saying that a PDF hosted elsewhere opens in the
in-browser PDF reader, but a Moodle-hosted one doesn't?

I will explore that -- can you file a bug (as discussed) with some
example PDFs you find that work correctly?

cheers,


m
-- 
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 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
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Re: [Server-devel] Various / PDF resources in Moodle

2009-12-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 (A) PDFs uploaded to Moodle folders always open in the Rainbow-Daemon
 dialogue when you left click on the links. If you go to hyperlinks on HTML
 pages either in my local public folders or out on the net, a PDF file always
 opens in the Browse version of PDF reader when you left click on it. In all
 my tests it is fully reproducable using both B4 and C1s. I would prefer them
 to open in Read activity, which has but it's not a huge problem, they are
 very similar. One can also Keep and then open from the Journal. But why the
 rainbow-daemon window?

 Ok, so you are saying that a PDF hosted elsewhere opens in the
 in-browser PDF reader, but a Moodle-hosted one doesn't?

 I will explore that -- can you file a bug (as discussed) with some
 example PDFs you find that work correctly?

Explored and diagnosed. When in Moodle you say add a resource - link
to a file or website, and then you pick a PDF, you will see a
force-download option, that defaults to off.

 - Keep it off, and you will see the PDF inline ;-)

 - Turn it on and it will force a download to the Journal.

it'd be nice to have the options there simplified and better labelled.



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
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Re: [Server-devel] [ejabberd] mnesia corruption with concurrent ejabberdctl usage

2009-12-28 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Badlop bad...@gmail.com wrote:
 I don't know if your ejabberdctl shell script has the problem
 described in this thread/message:
 http://lists.jabber.ru/pipermail/ejabberd/2009-September/005351.html

That sure looks like the smoking gun. To check I am understanding this right

 - It is not safe to run many ejabberdctl instances because they
always use the same connection name

 - If we give a truly random connection name, no overlaps happen, but
erl will leak handles/processes/whatever

 - So a small pool of names with some locking may work? Modern distros
carry flock, so we could say (pseudo-shell):

   MAXCONNECTIONS=100
   CONNLOCKDIR=/var/lock/ejabberd/ejabberdctl

   for CONNID in 1..$MAXCONNECTIONS; do
   if flock -n $CONNLOCKDIR/ctl-ejabberd-$con...@localhost \
   erl -sname ctl-ejabberd-$con...@localhost ... ; then
   break

cheers,



m
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