Re: [Server-devel] [sugar] notes on 8.2.0, specifically 767 (was 8.2.1)
Bryan, As you requested I ran $ olpc-netstatus and get gabble returned as one of the values. /Robert H. On Nov 26, 2008, at 6:41 PM, Bryan Berry wrote: Were you able to register properly w/ XS and were you able to connect to ejabberd? The best way to check is to run $ olpc-netstatus from the terminal You should see gabble listed and not salut If you only see salut you are not connected to ejabberd On Wed, 2008-11-26 at 18:33 -0800, Robert Howard wrote: I have had no trouble connecting both 767 and 656 to the XS .4 that anna is running. We have tested all sorts of activities using collaboration via the .4 XS. On Nov 26, 2008, at 8:22 AM, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 1:07 PM, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * 767 can't connect to ejabberd on XS 0.4 because they use incompatible versions of GNU TLS. H. All the XO 8.2 testing has been done againstXS 0.4 so categorically we can assert: vanilla 767 interoperates with vanilla XS 0.4 just fine. If you are seeing a problem, it's probably worthwhile to diagnose with the fine crowd at [EMAIL PROTECTED] :-) btw, it seems that this list is getting shut down - move discussion to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and [EMAIL PROTECTED] ? cheers, martin -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar -- Bryan W. Berry Technology Director OLE Nepal, http://www.olenepal.org ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: Wacom Bamboo with XO?
Paul, Are you using the driver code from http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/ ? I had intended on trying this but have been too busy to get the time set up the correct environment or follow all the steps involved for the initial setup http://linuxwacom.sourceforge.net/index.php/doc If you get something you think is workable let me know and I can test it with one of my Wacom Intuos 2 tablets. Note there is also a mouse as well as a pen with this tablet so the mouse code needs to be compiled as well. thanks for all the good work!! /Robert On Nov 17, 2008, at 8:37 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: building and insmod'ing wacom.ko lets the Sapphire tablet move the mouse cursor. i confess i've never used a tablet, so i don't know whether the button on the stylus doesn't behave as a mouse button is expected or not. also, the motion i get when moving the stylus on the pad is relative, not absolute. there are no module parameters, so any tuning must be via some other mechanism. i can supply the driver module to anyone who would like to try it. i'm probably not the right guy to pursue this further, but i've added a mention of tablet support to #7326, which is a tracker for requested modules. paul wade wrote: If you guys can get a driver working and expose the API, I'll add support to Colors!. It already has support for pressure sensitivity (variable brush size and/or opacity) in the painting engine. -Wade On Mon, Nov 17, 2008 at 8:04 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: chris wrote: Has anyone had any success getting a Wacom USB tablet working with the XO? The new Bamboo series is affordable ($79 US), about the same size active area as the XO display, and could be a substitute for the deprecated/soon to be abandoned pressure sensitive touchpad on the original XOs. we have a wacom tablet (Sapphire, whatever that represents) here at 1cc, which we can test. the XO doesn't include the wacom.ko module which it seems to want. i can try building the module to see if it works. i'll leave it to you to figure out whether the same driver support will work for the Bamboo series. paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] give one laptop, get one laptop --- http://www.amazon.com/xo ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] give one laptop, get one laptop --- http://www.amazon.com/xo ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: The XO laptop gets a Windows makeover
It was a very poor experiment and the article had a number of items of misinformation. The author of the article did not take advantage of the fact that she had 2 XOs . She did not boot both in Sugar to observe the collaboration capabilities of Sugar and Activities. If she had then Sugar would have won hands down. Windows is pointless as an educational platform. I have never seen what I would call an educational application on Windows. I have seen rote training applications on Windows. About all Windows is good for is in a school training the next generation of low skilled, low wage support personal for Microsoft with out of date knowledge. Remember education and training are 2 different concepts. Education gives you the ability to reach beyond your base knowledge and to continue to learn, explore and synthesize ideas and concepts. Rote training freezes you in time and makes you inflexible. On Oct 25, 2008, at 11:34 PM, Carlos mauro wrote: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10074298-56.html? part=rsssubj=newstag=2547-1_3-0-20 Was a experiment (informal) with a girl with 8 years old wich used olpc with Sugar an Windows... :) -- Forwarded message -- From: Carlos mauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/10/26 Subject: Niños en Prueba Informal Prefieren Sugar q WindowsXp To: kunix [EMAIL PROTECTED], OLPC en castellano para usuarios, docentes, voluntarios y administradores olpc- [EMAIL PROTECTED], OLPC-Peru [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Claudia Colque [EMAIL PROTECTED], AD Luyo [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kri0z [EMAIL PROTECTED], Victor Arturo Simich L�pez [EMAIL PROTECTED], EDUARDO CIEZA DE LEON [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lucia Elisa Loyola Cordova [EMAIL PROTECTED], KETTY JULCA VALDEZ [EMAIL PROTECTED], Natividad Gonzales Cordova [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mica [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10074298-56.html? part=rsssubj=newstag=2547-1_3-0-20 Intersante Espero que me respondan la forma de colocarle el windows Xp a la OLPC para hacer los test de usabilidad de contraste. -- http://unimauro.blogspot.com/ Creemos en el amor de los Seres Humanos Carlos Mauro Cárdenas Fernández 4582877 980525716 -- http://unimauro.blogspot.com/ Creemos en el amor de los Seres Humanos Carlos Mauro Cárdenas Fernández 4582877 980525716 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: The XO laptop gets a Windows makeover
Albert, I was not shouting down criticism. I was pointing out the inherent fallacy of the experiment. File sharing is not an active real time collaboration tool by any means. In sugar multiple children can work on the same write document, paint document, etc. at the same time and a copy is saved locally. You are making the fallacy of comparing apples with oranges. As for Windows file sharing I could show you situations in which Windows file sharing fails miserably and contrary to what you state Windows file sharing is not compatible between all operating systems. A few of your statements are so bizarre they don't even deserve a response. In my work life I use multiple OS in a given day and see these compatibility problems first hand. Means of file sharing can be setup fairly easily in Sugar if you want to move raw files around. Currently file sharing is performed through activity sharing. Just because MS Excel is used by some for science, engineering and statistics does not mean it is the correct tool for the job. There are too many serious problems with MS Excel that have never been fixed and have caused serious problems with a number of scientific projects, etc., that relied on MS Excel. I too can use a screw driver to hammer a nail into a wall but does not mean it is the correct tool. I agree with you that there has been a dearth of decent educational software on all platforms. There is a chance to start a fresh with a new platform that is not encumbered with a legacy of poor offerings in that area. Is that not what the stated target for the XO and Sugar is to be an educational tool? Unfortunately from your response ,you have demonstrated you really do not understand the difference between education and rote learning. By the way I did not say rote training was useless. I said it leads to inflexibility. Rote learning is not based on understanding. On Oct 26, 2008, at 4:09 PM, Albert Cahalan wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was a very poor experiment and the article had a number of items of misinformation. The author of the article did not take advantage of the fact that she had 2 XOs . She did not boot both in Sugar to observe the collaboration capabilities of Sugar and Activities. If she had then Sugar would have won hands down. Sugar isn't helped when people shout down any criticism. Living in denial about the competition just leads to failure. I'm far from a fan of Windows, but it gets many things right. If you think booting both into Sugar would have helped Sugar, then you obviously haven't seen the collaboration capabilities of Windows. Booting both into Windows would allow file sharing. Compared to what Sugar does, file sharing is very reliable. It works with **all** programs, without any developer effort. It's compatible between different software versions, different types of software, and even different OSes. It even eliminates the need to maintain a continuous network connection, which is great for kids without wired networks or reliable electricity. Windows is pointless as an educational platform. I have never seen what I would call an educational application on Windows. I have seen rote training applications on Windows. About all Windows is good for is in a school training the next generation of low skilled, low wage support personal for Microsoft with out of date knowledge. I haven't seen decent educational software for any platform. That includes Sugar and Mac OS. Probably this means that the concept itself is defective. Real tools are superior. I have seen Microsoft Excel used for science, engineering, and statistics. Sugar has nothing comparable, despite at least two usable free spreadsheets being available for Linux. Remember education and training are 2 different concepts. Education gives you the ability to reach beyond your base knowledge and to continue to learn, explore and synthesize ideas and concepts. Rote training freezes you in time and makes you inflexible. You just keep telling yourself that Windows is only for rote training (false) and that rote training is useless (also false) while the world mysteriously ignores you for some reason. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: ship Gnash 0.8.4 RC1 in OLPC 8.2.0?
On Oct 13, 2008, at 6:59 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: On 10/12/08, Carlos Nazareno [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey OLPC team. No, really, is there any chance OLPC can ship Gnash 0.8.4 with XO OS final 8.2.0? Very doubtful.. this Gnash release is several weeks too late to meet 8.2.0. We froze things quite a while ago. My suggestion would be to find websites that work better in Gnash 0.8.4, then propose an 8.2.1 release including the upgrade: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/8.2.1 It wouldn't hurt for you to include this snapshot in your release as a gnash 0.8.4-rc1. It WOULD hurt for you to include 0.8.3 because it doesn't play YouTube. Unless we find a strong reason not to, we'll do a release tomorrow (about 28 hours from now). I don't think we will play YouTube, regardless of whether 0.8.3 or 0.8.4 is shipped in 8.2.x. We don't ship the youtube-required proprietary codecs. Btu end users could install them and have them work if gnash 0.8.4 was available. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: ship Gnash 0.8.4 RC1 in OLPC 8.2.0?
On Oct 13, 2008, at 8:46 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 11:19 AM, Robert Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Btu end users could install them and have them work if gnash 0.8.4 was available. If end-users have to drop to a command line and do something, which I assume they do for the above, then it will not be hard for someone like you to offer a package for gnash 0.8.4 for them to install at the same time. You really do not get it do you!! The basic functionality should be provided by OLPC with a build of gnash optimized for the Geode. There has been demand for this from deployments and you have ignored this fact. G1G1 users have been wanting this for a long time. The new G1G1 V2 users are going to be annoyed with this lack of support. An additional data point is that Adobes flash support on Linux is not optimized for the Geode and is in general not great on the XO and is not simple to install.. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: VideoChat is working now - hooray! - Now how about multi-user audio chat?
There are a number of people that are interested in audio chat. Currently there are a group of people that use TeamSpeak on the XO but it is closed source and the client has severe stuttering problems with 8.2-767. (it is not the firmware because if you boot into alternate image 656 it works fine. There was a trac ticket for audio stuttering but can't remember the id). Now a light weight audio chat activity that could be shared among multiple users would be useful. A few use cases: A.) school intercom system. ( This how use of TeamSpeak came about in the G1G1 sector as an experiment to see if XO could be used as a school intercom ). B.) communication for the blind C.) inexpensive conference call system Could this be a lighter weight subset of the Video chat system developed as audio chat? my 2 cents worth, /Robert H. On Oct 12, 2008, at 1:11 AM, Pia Waugh wrote: Hi all, We now have Videochat v9 which works. This is a great thing that will help children connect, and in particular help with remote support for children. It could assist with eHealth, remote education, speech therapy and any number of useful functions. Anyway, it also needs more hacking, so anyone interested in helping should have a play and get involved. Currently it only does basic video conferencing between 2 laptops but the vision (as it states on the webpage) is for whiteboard functionality and more. Anyway, thought there would probably be a few of you for whom this would be useful :) Download and information: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Video_Chat Cheers, Pia -- OLPC Australia http:// olpc.org.au/ Linux Australia http:// linux.org.au/ Open Source Industry Australia http:// osia.net.au/ Software Freedom Day http:// softwarefreedomday.org/ We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free. - Bill Hicks ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] notes from the field - Mongolia
On Oct 10, 2008, at 8:41 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: mikus wrote: Talking about copy-from-journal and copy-to-journal: can you provide a pointer to these scripts? Try 'which'. On my XO they're in /usr/bin. doh! i guess i don't use my XO as much as i thought! when you said written by users i assumed you meant you had obtained them from someone's personal website somewhere -- there's certainly a lot of that kind of stuff out there. thanks for the (rather short) pointer. :-) paul =- paul fox, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel Try http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Copy_to_and_from_the_Journal The scripts pointed to there may need updating and enhancing to work nicely. Robert H. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: notes from the field - Mongolia
You can transfers files between systems, (in the absence of an XS server), using a light weight web server such as boa To install boa on the XO: su - yum install boa If you want more details on how to configure boa let me know and I will post the instructions. I use boa to pull log files off my XO. Similarly you get get files off a MS Windows system using IIS. Another email in this thread mentions the scripts for copying files to and form the Sugar Journal. /Robert H. On Oct 10, 2008, at 1:48 PM, Deniz Kural wrote: I see how my email wasn't so nice. Apologies for increasing the animosity level. I was merely trying show how USB transfer from: 1) Xo to Xo 2) Other platform to Xo could be useful. Marco, I'm glad to have provoked a laugh, I was indeed joking. I don't even know you. I agree with Martin -- I thought he didn't write anything offensive. I will follow your advice, Edward, Tomeu. So to stay on topic, 1) I understand that there is in fact an easy way to transfer files between XOs with a USB (which I believe is necessary per the conditions in Mongolia - people living in mobile yurts, even in the largest city and the capital etc. as explained). In the future, if one day the network is universal, and the mesh works etc. I can see why we wouldn't need it. 2) I understand that sugar might not have been intended to work with other OS's, and should be thought of as an educational tool meant for children instead of a general all-purpose laptop computer. But I also think, since this is a significant investment for many people, referring to my original example of a teacher typing up a reading (from a book let's say, or a handout) on a regular computer s/he already has back home, and being able to transfer files back and forth on an Xo so s/he can distribute it to his/her students. Thus, to fulfill its educational mission, Sugar cannot be a closed box. Deniz On Fri, Oct 10, 2008 at 8:43 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/10/10 Deniz Kural [EMAIL PROTECTED]: This whole why would you need a USB in mongolia? conversation shows how out of touch some people on this list are with the people the project is trying to reach. Deniz, this list if composed by people from all around the world, some of which have had contact with some cultures, others with other cultures. What we have in common is the desire to build a software platform that others can use to learn themselves and to teach others. As we have the wish that our work is universally used, we'll need to teach each other how is life in every part of the world and how we can better work so it serves best everywhere. Mikus hasn't been afraid of showing his ignorance about how USB sticks are used in Mongolia and you have kindly replied with an useful explanation. I hope we can keep sharing experiences like this but with a bit less of animosity. Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: notes on Journal feedback (was Re: Bundle activity)
On Oct 7, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Gary Oberbrunner wrote: Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, Sep 12, 2008 at 09:17:16AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: On Thu, Sep 11, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... 3) How do I share files to/from an XO? I just did this work but now where is the resultant file? Interface with the outside world. How could we better define the outside world? Do you think we could get a list of the main use cases when taking data out of XO systems? My $0.02 (aka. wild guess) is that the following three use cases cover 90+% of all of them: 1. files to and from a FAT-formatted USB stick 2. files to and from a wifi SMB share 3. email attachments in and out Another use case I have seen is: 4. files to and from a host system using a ssh connection and scp. (could this be put in an activity wrapper?) Also some G1G1 users, use scripts to extract data from the data store. -- Gary Oberbrunner ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Devel Digest, Vol 32, Issue 13
I don't have an XS to test this with though it does look like cool tech. Wonder if there are any takers out there? On Oct 4, 2008, at 10:27 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Mitch Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You could also try out the multicast nand update thing if you are really eager. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Multicast_NAND_FLASH_Update tells how. BTW, the multicast NAND stuff is great - thanks. I hope we can get the AA to work as APs with thinmac, and bump their multicast rate up, so an XS with a Libertas device or an XS build running on XO hw can do this job easily. It probably will not be part of the standard startup services of the XS, but it makes sense to have a 'warehouse services' mode for the XS image. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New joyride build 2506 - q2e19
Mitch, Do you know if trac 8451 is going to be fixed for the G1G1V2 image being delivered to quanta? I think it is a bad idea delivering a self test that is broken. Could have bad PR implications. Just my 2 cents and 20 odd years of SQA experience on a diverse range of products. /Robert H. On Oct 4, 2008, at 9:31 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Another strange thing I see with q2e19 is that at 19% battery, according to the battery gauge, the battery indicatory lamp started flashing red and orange. That would be a function of the EC code. Richard, any thoughts? On Oct 4, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: Is q2e19 going to be included in the 8.2 release? The reason I ask is that trac 8451, test-all crash after the touchpad test, found in q2e18 is very disconcerting. q2e19 is a quick-turn release (half-day turnaround from head's up to release) for a pre-build of a limited run of machines with a new keyboard controller. It has new and barely-tested EC code plus a barely-tested change to the keyboard driver. It might not survive the weekend before e20 is issued. The mouse test problem that you found is likely to be e19's demise. It's possible that the problem could affect the keyboard in some cases. I have determined that the mouse test problem is caused by some device - either the EC or the touchpad - returning a RESEND code instead of an ACK in response to the first IDENTIFY request. I have never seen that happen before. It doesn't happen all the time; a lot of the time it works. I'm working on a fix. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OFW trackpad test woes
Mitch, Just been testing q2e19a and the self test mode is still buggy. I am testing with a G1G1 laptop with Alps trackpad. Seen several different things happen. I ran the complete self test a couple of times by cold booting with the left rocker held down. 1.) One time when it went into the mouse test phase as soon as I touched the right hand section of the touchpad it left the mouse test and went to the next test. 2.) When I ran test mouse from the ofw prompt the screen was left black until I hit enter a few times. 3.) Another problem is when you run 'test mouse' from the ofw prompt the screen the following may occur: Pressure:10 Touchpad protocol botched mouse selftest failed. Return code = -1 ok Touchpad test. Both buttons clears screen. Type a key to exit. I can repeat number 3 just by running finger around trackpad while varying pressure. On Oct 5, 2008, at 2:48 AM, Mitch Bradley wrote: http://dev.laptop.org/~wmb/q2e19a.rom is a test build that purports to fix http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8451#comment:7 (This Time For Sure !) If anybody is just itching to test a bleeding edge OFW, this is your chance. (Okay, so it's not really all that bleeding. It's not too different from Q2E18 which is going in the G1G1V2 build.) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Friends in testing has wrong Valid until start date for candidate-767
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Friends_in_testing Friends in testing has wrong Valid until start date for candidate-767 It displays: Current test image: candidate-767 --Michael Stone 23 September 2008; valid until next Wednesday. This needs fixing ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: OFW trackpad test woes
On Oct 5, 2008, at 11:54 AM, Mitch Bradley wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mitch, Just been testing q2e19a and the self test mode is still buggy. I am testing with a G1G1 laptop with Alps trackpad. Seen several different things happen. I ran the complete self test a couple of times by cold booting with the left rocker held down. 1.) One time when it went into the mouse test phase as soon as I touched the right hand section of the touchpad it left the mouse test and went to the next test. That could be explained by a queued-up keyboard character causing the test to exit early - like if you typed more than one character when trying to exit the display test early. I guess I should flush the input queue when starting the mouse test. 2.) When I ran test mouse from the ofw prompt the screen was left black until I hit enter a few times. That's sort of intentional, so you can see the last state of the screen. That has some diagnostic value, but maybe not enough to justify the potential confusion. 3.) Another problem is when you run 'test mouse' from the ofw prompt the screen the following may occur: Pressure:10 Touchpad protocol botched This one I haven't seen. I tried to reproduce it on three different machines to no avail. The dual-mode touchpad protocol is somewhat twitchy, especially as regards switching back and forth between resistive and capacitive mode. The Linux driver has gone through any number of revisions in hopes of stabilizing the behavior, with only partial success. In light of the fact that we're about to switch to new touchpads, I'm inclined to let this one slide. I'm not sure it's the best use of my time to try and beat this particular dead horse. I suggest that item 3. be release noted then. By the way if an Alps trackpad goes bad will it be possible to swap in a Synaptics track pad or is that physically impossible mouse selftest failed. Return code = -1 ok Touchpad test. Both buttons clears screen. Type a key to exit. I can repeat number 3 just by running finger around trackpad while varying pressure. On Oct 5, 2008, at 2:48 AM, Mitch Bradley wrote: http://dev.laptop.org/~wmb/q2e19a.rom is a test build that purports to fix http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8451#comment:7 (This Time For Sure !) If anybody is just itching to test a bleeding edge OFW, this is your chance. (Okay, so it's not really all that bleeding. It's not too different from Q2E18 which is going in the G1G1V2 build.) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New joyride build 2506 - q2e19
Is q2e19 going to be included in the 8.2 release? The reason I ask is that trac 8451, test-all crash after the touchpad test, found in q2e18 is very disconcerting. On Oct 3, 2008, at 7:22 PM, Build Announcer v2 wrote: http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build2506 Changes in build 2506 from build: 2504 Size delta: -0.13M -bootfw q2e18-1.olpc2.unsigned +bootfw q2e19-1.olpc2.unsigned --- Changes for bootfw q2e19-1.olpc2.unsigned from q2e18-1.olpc2.unsigned --- + trac 8451 - Fixed test-all crash after touchpad test. + Multicast NAND updater test version included + trac 8737 - Better wlan scan output from APs with malformed data + Support for new keyboard controller + Handle ramdisk location changes required by new Linux kernels + trac 8451 - Fixed test-all crash after touchpad test. + Turn on serial console for secure boot -- This mail was automatically generated See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride-pkgs.html for aggregate logs See http://dev.laptop.org/~rwh/announcer/joyride_vs_update1.html for a comparison ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Devel Digest, Vol 32, Issue 13
Mitch, Are there any other tests you would like me to run with q2e19? I have successfully connected to a linksys wrt54gL and used chat for a chat session of an hour or 2 duration so the network interface seems to be working. /Robert H. On Oct 4, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: Is q2e19 going to be included in the 8.2 release? The reason I ask is that trac 8451, test-all crash after the touchpad test, found in q2e18 is very disconcerting. q2e19 is a quick-turn release (half-day turnaround from head's up to release) for a pre-build of a limited run of machines with a new keyboard controller. It has new and barely-tested EC code plus a barely-tested change to the keyboard driver. It might not survive the weekend before e20 is issued. The mouse test problem that you found is likely to be e19's demise. It's possible that the problem could affect the keyboard in some cases. I have determined that the mouse test problem is caused by some device - either the EC or the touchpad - returning a RESEND code instead of an ACK in response to the first IDENTIFY request. I have never seen that happen before. It doesn't happen all the time; a lot of the time it works. I'm working on a fix. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: New joyride build 2506 - q2e19
Another strange thing I see with q2e19 is that at 19% battery, according to the battery gauge, the battery indicatory lamp started flashing red and orange. On Oct 4, 2008, at 7:23 PM, Mitch Bradley wrote: Is q2e19 going to be included in the 8.2 release? The reason I ask is that trac 8451, test-all crash after the touchpad test, found in q2e18 is very disconcerting. q2e19 is a quick-turn release (half-day turnaround from head's up to release) for a pre-build of a limited run of machines with a new keyboard controller. It has new and barely-tested EC code plus a barely-tested change to the keyboard driver. It might not survive the weekend before e20 is issued. The mouse test problem that you found is likely to be e19's demise. It's possible that the problem could affect the keyboard in some cases. I have determined that the mouse test problem is caused by some device - either the EC or the touchpad - returning a RESEND code instead of an ACK in response to the first IDENTIFY request. I have never seen that happen before. It doesn't happen all the time; a lot of the time it works. I'm working on a fix. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: 5 sec boot
The following articles on reducing linux boot times have recently been published: http://blog.crozat.net/2008/09/improving-boot-time-on-general-linux.html http://www.bootchart.org/ http://lwn.net/Articles/299483/ http://broadcast.oreilly.com/2008/09/how-powertop-latencytop-and-fi.html There might be some useful ideas / tools mentioned. On Oct 3, 2008, at 8:06 AM, Martin Dengler wrote: On Fri, Oct 03, 2008 at 03:24:25PM +0200, NoiseEHC wrote: If you somehow missed it, there is possible to boot Linux in 5 seconds on an EeePC. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s7NxCM8ryF8 Here is the paper: http://www.fenrus.org/plumbers_fastboot.ppt Could somebody explain me whether these results are applicable to the XO, and how far are we from it, please? I got TuxOnIce[1] patched[2] and as far as testing the hibernate step[3] before I gave up after TuxOnIce refused to save the image (it just rebooted[4] instead). It's a bit too much of a time sink for me to hope to get much more done on, though. Hopefully someone else can pursue it or alternatives. Martin 1. http://www.tuxonice.net/HOWTO-7.html#ss7.5 2. http://dev.laptop.org/git?p=users/mdengler/ olpc-2.6;a=shortlog;h=testing 3. Step #6 in http://lists.laptop.org/pipermail/devel/2008-August/018700.html 4. [unload/unmount stuff] echo 1 /sys/power/tuxonice/keep_image echo 1 /sys/power/tuxonice/freezer_test echo 1 /sys/power/tuxonice/suspend [should just create memory image, but just rebooted right away] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Is http://wiki.laptop.org/ down or vandalized?
Is http://wiki.laptop.org/ down or vandalized? Since about 10 PM PST last night all I get is a blank page when I try to connect to the home page. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Is http://wiki.laptop.org/ down or vandalized?
How about putting up a simple page saying the main system is down for maintenance? That would at least be a bit better than complete failure to serve pages. On Oct 1, 2008, at 8:14 AM, Jim Gettys wrote: Best guess is a success disaster: the server needs more RAM... Henry's scrambling to upgrade the system. - Jim On Wed, 2008-10-01 at 08:13 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is http://wiki.laptop.org/ down or vandalized? Since about 10 PM PST last night all I get is a blank page when I try to connect to the home page. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Jim Gettys [EMAIL PROTECTED] One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
olpc-update -v 8.2-766 gets fakeroot error
Attempting to run olpc-update -v 8.2-766 from root gets : @ERROR: Unexpected server greeting: fakeroot error, while creating message channels: Invaalid argument rsync error: error starting client-server protocol (code 5) at main.c (1383) [receiver=2.6.9] ... This is from build 656 using olpc-update version 2.7 running from root. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: #7788 Touchpad behavior, [was 8.2.0 blockers stats and status]
I noticed over the weekend that the touchpad is very jumpy in 765. Never really had any problems with touchpad previously. On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:02 AM, Ton van Overbeek wrote: What about #7788 (Worse touchpad behavior in 8.2). It is still there even in 8.2-765, at least on my XO-1. I am not the only one seeing this, Daniel Drake (dsd) complained about this while developing the bridge activity in the physics jam and I have also seen other mails on the list. My hunch is that somehow the EC and the kernel psmouse code get out of sync since it always starts OK after boot, but then deteriorates later. There is no reason to block the release for this, but I believe something about this should be mentioned in the release notes. Ton van Overbeek ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
candidate-765, Activities directory deleted while running Software Update
While running software update for candidate-765 the Activities directory was deleted. This was not during the initial run of Software Update after booting on completion of olpc-update but when called from the control panel Note I had added http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Joyride to the Upgrade Groups. While software update was running a warning dialog came up stating the journal was full. This seemed to happen while WikiBrowse_English was downloading. Then when I checked how much free space I had I saw I had approximately 200 MB free. I then went to check the contents of the /home/olpc/Activities directory in the virtual terminal but the Activities directory was missing Running Software Update after this happened failed to download any activities. Also it failed to create a new Activities directory. This problem occurred with a system that had 656 upgraded to candidate-765 using olpc-update. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Activity resume issues (was Re: twenty issues with Paint activity)
On Sep 26, 2008, at 7:40 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote: Am 26.09.2008 um 06:20 schrieb Mikus Grinbergs: If from Journal I double-click on a Paint activity icon, I get two icons in the Frame, one of which has a doubled menu (Paint Activity - Resume - Stop - Resume - Stop) that I can't resume or stop. When I tried to reproduce I got two icons, the first had the doubled menu, but this time the second icon pulsed forever. The above may be a general system problem. I have seen the same problem with both Chat and Browse were if you double click on the icon you end up with menu weirdness and throbbing icons. I've had the same problem when I accidentally double-clicked on the Terminal icon. Me too. I assumed there were synchronicity issues with activity starting/closing/resuming. For example, it has happened to me that when I close an activity and immediately resume it, the activity cannot create a dbus service. I assumed this was because the previous service was not yet completely done yet. But in the light of this new discussion it may well have been that I accidentally clicked twice for resuming, and since you cannot create the same dbus service twice it explains the error. The symptom is that there are two colored activity icons in the frame plus a gray circle. The splash screen is displayed and does not go away. I usually press alt-tab then which dismisses the splash screen and switches to the actual activity. - Bert - I think you can also get this problem to happen if you click the same icon before it has finished opening the application. In other words tab back to the home view and click again. It was actually easier to do this in the old layout that the G1G1 came with(e.g. 656). In fact a number of G1G1 users coined the term 'throbber' for this situation as the icon for the activity would sit there throbbing. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: twenty issues with Paint activity
On Sep 25, 2008, at 3:59 PM, S Page wrote: Paint-23 on 8.2-763. These are roughly in menu order. If from Journal I double-click on a Paint activity icon, I get two icons in the Frame, one of which has a doubled menu (Paint Activity - Resume - Stop - Resume - Stop) that I can't resume or stop. When I tried to reproduce I got two icons, the first had the doubled menu, but this time the second icon pulsed forever. The above may be a general system problem. I have seen the same problem with both Chat and Browse were if you double click on the icon you end up with menu weirdness and throbbing icons. You can't name a paint session in Paint (6220, I added this to release notes). I can copy Paint's marquee selection and it appears in the frame, but the selection seems inactive -- it's gray, has no hover menu, I can't drag it. I couldn't get paste of a selection to work. The Paint fill is so slow that I assumed the app had died. The Tools menu looks like a tools palette but you it doesn't show the selected tool. Actually, there is one item that looks like a selected tool, but it's the rounded-rect around the current color. The color selection swatches would be a lot more obvious if they started out as the kid's XO colors instead of black and black. Meanwhile the T in the text menu does have a gray background as if it's selected, but it isn't until you click it. And the two effects icons have a white background as if they're active. If you type a pencil or brush size in their drop-down menus you can't dismiss the menu from the keyboard. The Pencil size seems unchanged after changing its size. Polygon tool cursor doesn't look like the polygon tool icon. The Shapes menu doesn't fit the available space, Triangle is in a more items drop-down. I would get rid of the Line shape so the Shapes menu can fit on the regular screen. The menu is Text, its menu item is Type. What's the difference? The image resize spinboxes are so slow if I paste a previous Paint image in, I assumed the app had died. If I type in the image resize text boxes nothing happens but I don't know if it's really slow or they're dead to text input. Ideally they'd immediately show the value you type in or spin to but then you'd get a busy cursor. I can choose anything from the Journal for Image insert, e.g. a terminal session, but nothing happens if it isn't a previous Paint session. Is Paint meant to insert the preview image of non-Paint sessions? After unsuccessfully changing the size of an inserted image, the pencil tool works but the paint tool gets stuck as a selection marquee tool (makes no sense, but it's happened three times to me). The two Effects operations are next to each other and have similar icons but do completely different things. It would be better to separate them, and change the hover text for the first to Make picture gray I know, I know, File bugs. What do kids make of Paint? -- =S Page ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: release 8.2 build 762 still has olpc-update manifest failure at line 383 problem
Updating from build 656, using olpc-update 2.7 installed per the instructions at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Olpc- update#Workaround:_updating_olpc-update Before installing the latest build I boot back into my alternate image (656) so I can test the update process to a current build from a build (656) a late G1G1 system would have. command line used : olpc-update -v 8.2-762 Note I also see the problem below if I use the --usb update option. I had hoped there would be a more recent olpc-update that was available to use when updating from the G1G1 builds that did not show this problem. /Robert H. On Sep 23, 2008, at 9:51 AM, C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Tue, Sep 23, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Robert Howard [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The olpc_update manifest failure problem is still there. Rsyncing: etc/alsa Verifying update. Contents manifest failure at line 383 Last file examined: localtime Attempt olpc_update_irsync_pristine then it restarts the update. I need to know what version you are updating *from*. --scott -- ( http://cscott.net/ ) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Firefox and Browse and xulrunner on 8.2.0
On Sep 21, 2008, at 10:22 AM, Robert Howard wrote: On Sep 21, 2008, at 12:57 AM, S Page wrote: Using 8.2-760 with the Firefox-6 and Browse 96 that Software update installed, I noticed some things. No show-stoppers. * Firefox-6 doesn't use the gnash and totem plug-ins that are pre-installed in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins. I filed http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8593 with a workaround, maybe that or a better workaround could go in Release_notes/8.2.0. * Firefox-6 includes many libraries that are already in /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9 , seems there is an opportunity to save memory/disk by building it to use the system xulrunner. I filed enhancement http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8583 * I noticed the lib*.so's in the Firefox-6 activity are much smaller than the ones in /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9, I wonder how it was configured to produce smaller files. * /usr/lib/xulrunner and thus Browse is at version 1.9 but mozilla core 1.9.0.1 is released with security fixes, that's what the Firefox-6 activity uses. I filed http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/8594 , an 8.2.1 candidate? * After starting and stopping Firefox several times I've got two gray circles (the generic 'X' application icon?) stuck in the Frame. Choosing Resume or Stop from their menus does nothing. Is this a known bug? Is there a way to get rid of them? * From the thread build 8.2-760,Read activity and ebook mode, Unfortunately that thread went a bit off a bit ff topic. I am planning on entering a bug after I do more characterization of the problem with Read, etc. you must first put focus on the document (clicking on the page, or hitting tab a couple of times will do it). Hmmm, maybe this is worth a trac ticket as it's going to catch folks out. Trac 8602 for Read-activity - Read should automatically change focus to read tab when XO opened in ebook mode Probably need similar tickets for other activities that work in ebook mode including Browse/Firefox. Did anyone file a bug? The Help and Browse activities also suffer from this. * Out of curiosity I tried running chatzilla (a simple Powered by mozilla application) using the system xulrunner. (download http://chatzilla.rdmsoft.com/xulrunner/ unzip cd /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9 xulrunner -app path/to/chatzilla/application.ini ) Good news: despite some errors in the console about timemodule.so, it worked. The benefit is the memory and disk sharing. * I assume the Help-6.xo application also shares code, since it's using Hulahop that Browse uses. But top shows VIRT RES SHR 132m 37m 11m Browse 121m 36m 11m xulrunner (i.e. chatzilla) 130m 30m 7096 Help Should Help be sharing more memory, or am I just clueless on top[*] ? Cheers, -- =S Page [*] Clueless on Top, yet another independent documentary movie coming soon :) ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Grassroots-l] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
On Sep 21, 2008, at 11:12 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Seth Woodworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In fact, there is a great deal of data from the field in the form of the activity packs that Peru, Uruguay, et al. developed. These collections have been vetted and tested extensively and have a built-in community of support. They are learning-centric collections, but presumably, those G1G1 purchasers who are interested in other pursuits will run Fedora/GNOME or XP. -walter I'm not convinced that they are well-tested. They included News Reader, which hasn't worked for the last several releases. That doesn't suggest to me that their activities went through any kind of extensive testing before deployment. They have since been tested in the field by children. I *haven't* seen much feedback from kids yet. At least not from South American and not any broad spectrum. ---Seth In an attempt to make the decision-making process more unbiased (or at least more multi-criteria) I've put up a basic spreadsheet for a scoring matrix at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en Well I logged in to google docs, but I cannot edit this spreadsheet. I wanted to add Chat to the matrix as this activity is an extremely useful communication tool for both children and adults. I know G1G1 users that spend at least 80% of their XO usage with Chat and they have reported to me that they have observed children having a wonderful time using Chat to communicate with their friends even when their friends were in the same room. Gmail activity seems redundant as Gmail is reachable from Browse. In the spreadsheet, there are three main components. Column B has factors such as stability, performance, etc to assess against. I just made these up, but feel free to make your own. The weights (column C) essentially defines the importance of each factor as a percentage of a total of 100%. The rest of the columns are for each activity. Feel free to add your own. Score them on a scale of 1 to 10. Each score gets weighted and you'll see totals at the bottom. Sort for the totals in Descending order and skim off the top 10. There you have it. Multi-criteria decision-making made simple. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Grassroots-l] G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
Sameer thanks for making the spreadsheet world editable By the way how are you defining the following terms:- Stability Performance Child Utility Technical Utility Grown-up utility Lines of code Good definitions of these terms noted in the spreadsheet will reduce ambiguity. Nothing like ambiguity to cause misunderstanding. On Sep 21, 2008, at 12:11 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 1:59 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sep 21, 2008, at 11:12 AM, Sameer Verma wrote: On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 6:00 PM, Seth Woodworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 12:46 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In fact, there is a great deal of data from the field in the form of the activity packs that Peru, Uruguay, et al. developed. These collections have been vetted and tested extensively and have a built-in community of support. They are learning-centric collections, but presumably, those G1G1 purchasers who are interested in other pursuits will run Fedora/GNOME or XP. -walter I'm not convinced that they are well-tested. They included News Reader, which hasn't worked for the last several releases. That doesn't suggest to me that their activities went through any kind of extensive testing before deployment. They have since been tested in the field by children. I *haven't* seen much feedback from kids yet. At least not from South American and not any broad spectrum. ---Seth In an attempt to make the decision-making process more unbiased (or at least more multi-criteria) I've put up a basic spreadsheet for a scoring matrix at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p_Xhb6KcXLyEViA50CnCaDghl=en Well I logged in to google docs, but I cannot edit this spreadsheet. I wanted to add Chat to the matrix as this activity is an extremely useful communication tool for both children and adults. I know G1G1 users that spend at least 80% of their XO usage with Chat and they have reported to me that they have observed children having a wonderful time using Chat to communicate with their friends even when their friends were in the same room. I've made it world-editable. Alternatively, you can download the spreadsheet and play with it in Excel or OpenOffice. Gmail activity seems redundant as Gmail is reachable from Browse. Yes, but it exists. Feel free to add as many activities as needed. Sameer In the spreadsheet, there are three main components. Column B has factors such as stability, performance, etc to assess against. I just made these up, but feel free to make your own. The weights (column C) essentially defines the importance of each factor as a percentage of a total of 100%. The rest of the columns are for each activity. Feel free to add your own. Score them on a scale of 1 to 10. Each score gets weighted and you'll see totals at the bottom. Sort for the totals in Descending order and skim off the top 10. There you have it. Multi-criteria decision-making made simple. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Record 57 and behavior after resuming from suspend
If Record v57 is open and then the system resumes from suspend, the preview image is solarized. To make the preview imagine restore to normal you need to either click on the O game key, or click on one of the other tabs in Record so the camera power cycles. Tested under build 8.2-760/Q2E17. Power setting in the Power control panel - 'Automatic power management' check box is checked. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: G1G1 Pre-installed Activities Request for Help Testing
Colors! is far superior to Paint. Colors! is a wonderful activity. A lot of fun and can be used for learning how to paint. The replay mechanism is a great learning tool. Using Colors! in shared mode is a great example of the potential of collaboration for aiding creativity. On Sep 19, 2008, at 3:27 PM, Greg Smith wrote: Hi All, Thanks a lot for the input on which activities to ship! Here is the list of activities I will to management as my suggestion on what we ship. Please help test these! See the end of the e-mail for instructions. The list I recommend is essentially the G1G1 activities (kudos to the team who chose the first set!). In addition to those I list a few which got repeated votes (except Chess and Sudoku which are a concession to SJ ;-) Original G1G1 activities: Browse Read Write Paint Record TamTam Jam, Mini, on fence: Synthlab, Edit, Chat Pippy Etoys Turtle Art Calculate Measure Distance Memorize Terminal Log Analyze New ones: Help Implode Speak Maze SimCity Scratch Xaos StarChart Moon GCompris Chess GCompris Sudoku The only significant change from the original G1G1 set is the TamTam. I think we should include 2 not 4 so as not to over weight them against other activities. Let me know if anyone has comments on that (Jean can you live with that?). Not all of these are sure to make it. On the other hand it's very unlikely that anything else will make it. So if you have an urgent request or a specific concern please speak up now. Of course, anyone can download additional activities so even if an activity is not on this list, it still attracts a lot of users. We need help testing these with the latest 8.2 image. We plan to make a release candidate today and if it passes smoke test we will add the activities and content to create a signed release candidate on Monday! Developers, Please reply with the final version and URL of each activity which we should include in the image. Each one must pass final test and have an active and reachable developer to make the final list. Morgan, can you make sure we have a contact e-mail and name on each of these? Also, let me know if you any of them are orphaned or not well maintained. All, Please test them all one more time let us know how it goes. I want to know if each of these passes the tests described here: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Test_cases_8.2.0#Activities Please create a new test case for any activity that needs one. To do that, go to this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Form:Test_case and entering Tests/Activities/nameofactivity to create a new test case. Then choose activity from the drop down and you can just paste in the steps test from above for a start. Then you can add a test result by clicking on the + sign next to the test case (it takes a little while for them to show up after creation). You can also e-mail comments or test results back to this list. Thanks a lot for your help. Thanks, Greg S ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Expected date for 8.2.0
Regarding WPA support remember you have existing G1G1 users out in the wild using WPA plus a new G1G1 is scheduled for November time frame. It is also possible that a deployment or two use WPA. There are suspend related bugs in 8.2-759. 1.) There is a nasty suspend related networking bug that requires a hard boot to get working again. Turn on power management, let the laptop suspend, (screen dims), and then close the lid. Open the lid again and the wireless connectivity is dead. Sometimes you have to repeat the lid closing several times to get the network stack dropped. Seems to happen the quickest if you have been using the network for a shared activity such as chat for a while. ( Bug does not seem to happen if ohmd is logging). Once this happens restarting sugar will not revive it. I have had to reboot to get wireless working again. 2.) I noticed in build 757 after opening the lid the system would attempt to connect to the last network device it had been connected to. With 759 it looks for a mesh first no matter that you had been connected to an AP last. 3.). If the laptop is in suspend, closing the lid does not turn off the backlight. (I look through the USB port after I close the lid and the light is still on. ). Robert H. On Sep 9, 2008, at 4:11 PM, Chris Ball wrote: Hi Martin, Go for 8.2-759 - that's pretty close to being a release candidate, and it's fairly good. Two things that hit mainstream usage and are being worked on: bad WPA support, odd Out-of-memory situations - activities get a kill -9 without so much as a pardon me. I don't think we have anyone working on better WPA support, but I might be wrong -- if this is important to you, make sure to let Greg know you think someone should be tackling it as a release blocker. (Current 8.2 blockers: http://dev.laptop.org/report/32.) - Chris. -- Chris Ball [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: recognizing a previous connection
It is my understanding that deployments with larger schools will be using WAPs and possibly some active antennas (currently a shortage of these). These large schools are more like the G1G1 situation as the pupil moves from one area of the school to another they may connect to another AP. I have informed a person involved with deployment at large schools of this thread (and the other thread). I am hoping they will respond with information about the wireless topography. On Sep 10, 2008, at 6:25 AM, Mikus Grinbergs wrote: When there has been an unconnected period (e.g., while suspended), the question has been discussed as to WHICH connection ought the system be trying to re-establish. I agree with those who would like the 'most recent connection' to be tried first, unless the user has explicitly indicated some other preference. But my chief reason for posting this is to point out the difference between an education environment for OLPC users, and a G1G1 environment for OLPC users. The whole design of Network Manager seems to be aimed at the former -- connect to the *same* school server all the time; if it is out of reach, connect to the *same* set of buddies (e.g., via mesh). As a G1G1 user, I tend to carry my XO with me. So at 7am I might use it at home; at 10am at the office during a break; at noon at a lunch spot, etc., etc. Meaning that continually this XO needs to be connected to a *different* AP. [And I don't like to just erase networks.cfg -- there might be values held there that I might not want to re-type manually when I next need to use a particular AP.] To me, the G1G1 environment is characterized by NOT using the same connection each time. Please don't make it cumbersome to switch APs mikus ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
8.2-759 Running 'Software update' to upgrade from Measure 17 to Measure 19 restarts sugar.
Running Software update indicates that there is an update from Measure 17 to Measure 19. When I click Install selected Sugar restarts. Then when I try Software update again and attempt to install Measure 19 it just refreshes but never successfully does the install. I can loop over and over clicking Install selected in this secenario. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Greg Smith's Weekly Report
On Sep 6, 2008, at 8:40 AM, Gary C Martin wrote: On 6 Sep 2008, at 06:12, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greg, Thanks for fixing http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Joyride and make it reference the correct version of Develop. Tested it and software updater now downloads Develop V35. Now maybe people can start looking for valid bugs and give the developer useful feedback. Develop launches nicely in 8.2-759. I went ahead and updated the reference to Colors! to Colors! V4 and software updater successfully downloaded that it. I notice that the .xo bundle for Colors linked from http:// wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities is still going to v3 even though v4 is listed on Colors own wiki page. Was just testing on the 759 stream and noticed it didn't pick-up the new version of Color (or Develop-35 for that matter) as the Control Panel (obviously) doesn't use the Activities/Joyride information. The Software Update control has a Modify activity groups in the lower left. This control is revealed once the Refresh of software update completes. Click on this and the Group URL field is release. You can add or subtract groups here by supplying the URL. I discovered that the Group URLs are stored in the hidden file /home/ olpc/Activities/.groups Next time I perform an update from 656 I will have to remember to delete .groups and see what it gets populated with. Installed both new versions manually using Browse (note that Colors doesn't respond to the stop icon in its activity tool bar, but you can use the keyboard shortcut alt-esc to get out). How do we get the component activity-Colors! added to track? The architecture of the wiki activity group pages is interesting to say the list. Yea, I was hoping the whispers of semantic wiki stuff was going to help keep all the various wiki references in sync. Perhaps it's implementation is still incomplete? Any information on what the semantic wiki plan is/was all about? Seems to have been some black ops project inside OLPC with no public documentation (that I've stumbled over yet). I noticed a few weeks back that my activity page had turned into some monster QA template page if I now try and edit it... Yes curious mind are awaiting...Does any one know if it is possible to have field level help for the form pages? . --Gary ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Hardware_specification page has been vandalized
Hardware_specification page has been vandalized http:// wiki.laptop.org/go/Hardware_specification The tile has been vandalized. Please see the page. Not quite sure on best way to fix. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Wellington testers + Activities vs 8.2-759
Martin, You used a old verison of Colors! The current version of Colors! is V4. I just fixed the http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Joyride activity group so if you run software update again in the control panel you should get it. (If not add the url to the activity groups for software updater). It is a lot of fun to collaboratively paint with Colors! Also Develop now points to Develop V35. Robert H. On Sep 5, 2008, at 9:52 PM, Martin Langhoff wrote: As 8.2 is stabilising, and we read from Morgan's survey that not all activity authors are testing on 8.2, it seemed an interesting track to play with as many possible activities as we could on 8.2 . So we did :-) Adopt an activity today was the motto. Overall 8.2 is looking fairly good. Networking and sharing proved to be a challenge - see notes at the end. Couple of notes - most of these have no 'component' in trac, we filed them as other-activity, and added the name of the activity as a keyword - very hard to find the email addresses of the authors! how do we show love to them? why do we have in the wiki maintainer unknown for so many activities where the maintainer is well known? Wikipedia / Journal - Worked very well and it's fantastic to have the content on the XO. But installation of large activities shows UI problems with the Journal. The Journal UI locks up while copying and unzipping with no user feedback. Colors-3 - Worked well -,Very high CPU usage even when we weren't painting, empty canvas. - Does not close (#8335) apparently due to a bad interaction withe the snapshot that Sugar takes when 'stop' is requested. Implode-4 - works well an 3 XOs tried! - The first (easy?) puzzle is not one you can use so it's fairly confusing. - Loading a large puzzle is also quite slow. (Is it trying to compute whether it's winnable?) X2O-5 - Worked very well - A bit slow sometimes Doom - worked well on 3 separate machines. -The key bindings however mask the Sugar keybindings. Bug...? Mini vMac - Works well, and gives the Mac fans little jumps - No sound? - No network? - Display is very small, could it be done with a 2x zoom? - Shutdown process is mildly awkward Conozco Uruguay - Fails to start #8334 Frotz - works well - had fun playing it! PlayGo-3 - launches and collaborates successfully, - the Activities page in the Wiki only offers PlayGo-1 which doesn't work on 8.2! (Andrés has already fixed this, thanks!) Speak-7 - Worked well - Can we teach it Spanish? Horsegame - works well! - you can indeed haz a pony - Carrots! - Apples! Asteroids - fails to start - No module named ImageLoad (#8333) FiftyTwo-2 - launches and seems to offer collaboration, but this in practice does not work. The player always plays against the computer, even if the activity has been shared successfully. Abalone-080601 - starts and works well. SliderPuzzle-5 - successful launch - crashed on one XO (out of 2 tried) but we did not get a log of that (Alastair - do you think you can try to repro it and file a bug) JigsawPuzzle-3 - successful launch and play Jump-1 - successful launch and play Mimic-1 - failed to launch, illegal instruction in mmxCombineAddU (#8336) - how to contact the maintainer...? Implode - successful play on two separate XOs Calculator - successful play - Does not display an error on divide by zero - even though it does display error msgs in some other instances - If fed a large calculation, it locks up trying to resolve it, UI is no longer responsive, does not respond to stop. (Grant, can you file a detailed bug on this?) Simcity - Successful play - Tiny fonts Maze - Successful play Sudoku - Successful play Notes on collaboration and networking Collaboration and networking... ...Oh so much trouble. - Collaboration over simple mesh mostly works. - Associating to an AP using WPA is extremely unreliable. Some laptops do, some after a few tries, some never. Likely to be the timing bug that has been discussed before. - Network manager is _not _ happy when an AP goes from WPA encryption to no encryption. iwlist can see the AP with no encryption but ccording to nm-tool, the AP is still requesting WEP. The fix: /etc/init.d/NetworkManager stop rm /home/olpc/.sugar/default/nm/networks.cfg *cold reboot* (does the Libertas driver preserve any state?) - Collaboration over unencrypted AP + Schoolserver running ejabberd did *not* work at all. I did not have a chance to debug this thoroughly, but odd things happen. olpc-netstatus errors out because session.info is missing. The client side never tries to register to ejabberd apparently. !? Credits... a ton of testing and debugging today, thanks to all those activity authors! Alastair Munro Grant Patterson Tabitha Roder cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask
Re: Greg Smith's Weekly Report
Greg, Thanks for fixing http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/Joyride and make it reference the correct version of Develop. Tested it and software updater now downloads Develop V35. Now maybe people can start looking for valid bugs and give the developer useful feedback. Develop launches nicely in 8.2-759. I went ahead and updated the reference to Colors! to Colors! V4 and software updater successfully downloaded that it. The architecture of the wiki activity group pages is interesting to say the list. Robert H. On Sep 5, 2008, at 11:23 AM, Greg Smith wrote: Hi Robert, Thanks for the info. We should probably do this on the list so others learn too if you don't mind. If you reply again, just add in devel. I edited the Joyride page (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities/ Joyride) to point to the new Devel v35 I just updated the activity bundle value by copying and pasting it from the main activities page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Activities and I updated the version value to 35. Try running the SW updater again and let me know if that fetches the right one. If so, maybe we can close another bug! The policy on where the SW updater gets stuff is at: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Software_update Can you try to fix Colors too if you know where the right one is and how to edit its wiki page from those instructions? Scott, This could be an ongoing challenge if we have the SW updater coded to use our wiki. Its a little complicated to figure out what version you are using (e.g. Joyride, shipping, peru etc) then to determine where the SW updater is pulling from and then update the right page. Its solvable but needs a lot of communication and takes some time. I wonder if there is some semantic wiki solution here to change it once and have it update everywhere Also, we still need a way to post older versions of activities when they are not backward compatible (e.g. if develop 35 doesn't run on 656 or 708, we need to say that on the main page and post the one (e.g. v25) that does run on older releases somewhere). If we edit the main activities page, to include some more fields in the table will that be a problem for SW updater? Skierpage, If we can edit activities page safely do you feel up to making some edits there... Maybe propose something on devel then we can approve and execute. Let me know if what we are looking for there is not clear. BTW don't mean to give you all the hard problems, its just that you do great work so I try you first :-) Thanks, Greg S [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding item 1. I came across http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/7716 Develop doesn't launch (not a blocker) for which I provided a diagnoses. I left the ticket as Diagnose because I did not know were to move it to next as it did not seem to be a code problem but an infrastructure problem. Basically the wrong version of Develop is being fetched by software upgrade for joyride activities group. (Also there is a caveat for using it on old builds were a patch has to be applied to the journal). This is a low hanging bit of fruit that could easily be fixed if I knew the correct process for updating the file that gets fetched by software update. I have also noticed this problem with Colors! for the joyride activities group were an old version is being fetched instead of the latest. Late for work so will follow up later if you need more information.. Robert H. On Sep 5, 2008, at 8:55 AM, Greg Smith wrote: Hi All, We write a weekly report for the OLPC management and employees. In order to keep the community involved, motivated and knowledgeable, Michael suggested we share it with this list. Its FYI but I'm open to help, comments or suggestions, as always. Thanks, Greg S ** Status against last weeks goals: 1 - Identify, triage and clarify 8.2 blocker bugs. GS - Done. Triaged all incoming bugs for 8.2. Helped get the 8.2 release down to a manageable set of blocking bugs which must be fixed. See: http://dev.laptop.org/report/28 As of this writing, there are only 9 left with the next action of Diagnose, Design or Code! 2 - Update 8.2 release notes GS - Made some progress with review of update instructions. Added text to all open bugs in preparation for final review: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Release_Notes/ 8.2.0#Notable_Open_Bugs_In_This_Release Also read and commented on the new manual which will be linked from release notes when ready. 3 - Update 9.1 page with more requirements. Re-check that all Peru input is in 9.1 page. Add Uruguay, Haiti, Rwanda, Birmingham and Mongolia requirements. GS - Done for Peru. Some Uruguay items in but not all. Not done for the rest. Also started engagement with sugar list re: their 0.84 which maps to 9.1. 4 - Prune outdated material off OLPC home page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/The_OLPC_Wiki
Re: [Techteam] Weekend Report - due today
Greg, Take a look at http://www.mind-mapping.org/?selectedCategories%5B% 5D=all+categoriesselectedOSes%5B%5D=LinuxpastOrPresent%5B% 5D=currentdatePicker2=filterData=Show+selected+items Lists various concept and mind mapping software for linux. Some of the items listed are GPL'ed. Hope the URL does not get broken in the email. Robert H. On Sep 3, 2008, at 5:36 AM, Greg Smith wrote: Hi Tomeu et al, FYI this is a piece of my weekly report that I write for my manager and the engineers working for OLPC (aka techteam). Its sometimes picked up by the community news. It just says what I did last week and what my goals are for next week. I hope to send it to this list too in the future. Cmap tools (http://cmap.ihmc.us/) is a client server application that appears to have pretty good traction in schools, mostly in South America. We have a request to make it work on the XO. I exchanged some e-mails with Alberto Canas (con enye) who is the main application owner. There are three main challenges to making this work on the XO: 1 - It runs on Java. (I asked about Java on a list for that reason, but I asked about Java in the browser. In this case its just Java VM). 2 - It uses multiple windows. 3 - Its free but not open source. The first point seems solvable if they just install Java afterwards. Then we don't need to worry about licenses. Its a big install but probably not a deal breaker. The performance may be challenging but again I think we can make it fit. The second point is a tougher problem. Alberto thinks they could re-write the application to work with tiled windows so they all fit on the XO. The other idea I have heard is that we could run an activity which is X-Windows. Then you could launch this activity within that one. That may affect performance and would need testing. For the first idea of rebuilding the Cmap tools for sugar, we would need engineers to work on that which brings me to the third point. I'm not sure what free but not open source means. I think it means that we can not take a snapshot of their code and fork it nor can we modify it and push it back to them. We need to find a way for Alberto to hire more engineers if we want them to improve the implementation for the XO. The only good idea so far is the X-windows in Sugar idea. I'm open to other suggestions on this. Questions and comments welcome too. I know of one opportunity in Latin America which is being held up by this. There may be more in the future, we'll see. The pedagogical specialists here tell me that concept maps are pretty hot in education right now. They also pointed me to a commercial tool which some schools use: http://www.inspirationsoftware.com/ Does anyone know of an open source solution in this area? If the customers want cmap tools, my first choice is to make that work. That's what I'm focusing on right now albeit lower priority than shipping 8.2 :-). Thanks, Greg S Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 10:37:51 +0200 From: Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Techteam] Weekend Report - due today To: OLPC Development devel@lists.laptop.org, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 8:52 PM, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: - Follow up on Cmap tools Looks quite interesting, where can we get more details? Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Incorrectly titled General Release Notes page on wiki
While searching wiki.laptop.org I came across a build 650 Release Note page which is unfortunately named General Release Notes http://wiki.laptop.org/go/General_Release_Notes It would be more appropriately named Release Notes for Build 650 so the naive are not mislead. Any chance a wiki administrator could rename this page? Robert H. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
joyride 2369 - yum fails with key error
If you try to use yum install in joyride 2369 it fails with a key error. For example 'yum install boa' or 'yum install elinks' both fail with : Downloading Packages: warning: rpmts_HdrFromFdno: Header V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 4f2a6fd2 GPG key retrieval failed: [Errno 5] OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-i386' ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Security and long life issues (Was Re: XO-2)
Richard et al, (I am passing this to the education list... because it is a mix of tech issues with issues related to the general policy about the XOs / and OLPC). I agree with the level of security that you are talking about. And I understand what are your concerns (some of them are valid for Peru, some of them are valid for big cities, some of them are valid for very small cities). But reading your message something came to my mind... (oh my God.. here we go!) As far as I understand the XOs will be given to the kids as property (I hope so... if not then we are feeding the dominance status quo of the government / top social class / bureaucrat power / etc.. ... then that kind of happening would be part of the problem and not part of the solution). IF the XO is property of the child, and IF the XO has a security protection method (that is related / linked) to a validation on a school server (or any other protection method that requires that the kid get connected with this or that server)... then ... I ask myself... a) Are we creating a slavery chain ? The kid (who will become used to work with his laptop... example: he will get the cost of the potato in the wholesale market in Lima and then he will advise his father at what price he needs to sell in this or that time of the year...)... then when he gets 16 years old (according to what is normal in the Andes mountains) he gets married with young lady of the nearest town... so he will start a new family in different location... he will live in other town... so... he needs to do what ? a.1) Travel without his laptop. a.2) Give the laptop to other small kid. a.3) Get a bride on his own town!!! (smile) (well... the kid has the opportunity to try some brides... it is call servinacuy... if you don't like the bride (after living with her some months, you return her to her parents and you have other opportunities to test another bride... don't ask me how many... I don't know! This custome comes from the Inca's time and is used in the remote villages in the Andes, it is part of a party... by the way, ladies, don't get upset: the bride can refuse the boy after living with him for some months... so the trial period is good for both... that is all what I know... I am not an expert on the issue (my bad luck!). a.4) Forget the all powerful door to the universe of knowledge (XO+Internet) and start a new life a.5) Don't get married... bachelor life... (smile) a.6) Hack the security issues and get and independent XO laptop then he can travel all around the Andes and get WiFi connection wherever he is located (I hope that other XOServers will recognize it as a brother from other town and allow him to access the net... I hope so... is this a dream? Sorry if I am putting more tasks on the shoulders of the developer teams or if I am saying something that sounds weird...) a.7) Go to a repair center and get his laptop fixed to get ridd of any security issue. a.8) Return the XO to the school (no, please... don't tell me this is the chosen procedure... all your efforts will fail like a... ok... you say whatever you want... I will be prepared... God help us on this one, please). What about if the kid comes to a bigger city for getting better education? and... if the kid get a way to go to a university? (I would bet that is the only laptop that most of the kids will get in the next 30 years... or maybe in his whole life...)... if the kid's family move from one small village city to another one... what will happen with his XO and, better question, what will happen with his relationship with the XO ? (am I nuts? is possible to get a relationship with a machine? I don't know... let's ask... Hal... are you there?) Ok... I can imagine another possibilities... but you got the idea... what is the intended route that the XO will follow in the life of this kid? Are we teaching them how to surf and then, in a few years we will ask them to surf without a board? ok... if that is the panorama it is better to know it now. Are we creating the new slaves of the XO? or this is a gadget that they can forget in some years? I am sure that many people (inside OLPC) has talk about this before and I suspect that the answer is not an easy one. Letting the decision to the governments* is not a valid answer because, in one way or another ALL the governments are part of the domination pyramid that we (we?) are trying to subvert with knowledge, wisdom, opportunities and good will. Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru * I am speaking about the governments as a establishment, a layer, a level of public administration... not about the people that works for this or that government... many of us can work for a government and become part of a structure that is very tight. Some people can go beyond the structure and some not. Richard A. Smith wrote: Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: As I stated before on this list, bypassing P_THEFT
Converting xol files???
Hello, I downloaded a file that has the curriculum of the Peruvian Primary Schools. Once I unzip (unrar?) I have found the xol files. Since I don't have a XO in my hands...is it possible to tranform the xol format to something that can be read with other document tools? (PDF? TXT? other?) Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Its.an.education.project] Constructionism (was Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view)
Edward Cherlin wrote: You can't expect every kid to spontaneously generate the sum of human knowledge by playing with plastic blocks. You don't have the slightest idea what Constructionism is, as this demonstrates. Edward: as far as I remenber you told the same some time ago: do you know what is construccionism?... well... it seems that I knew it, but I studied (a lot more) some of the papers and documents that are around... from the same Papert, from the very same Alan Kay, and all document that I was able to pick up... so (if my 2 neurons are working) now I am sure that I know what is construccionism. But.. again... as far as I remenber you have stated (or it was Papert?) that construccionism is not to be explained in just a few words. I hope that this aproach changes because IF we can not explain it in few words then I have to wonder how we can think that the peruvian teachers have caught the construccionism idea when they took those prussian and instruccionist order to study the construccionism around year 2000. I think that construccionism is not working fine in Peru. Or it was not correctly taught, or it is not implemented, or the whole idea is too big (too much words for something that is natural to the human been: adapt to the circumstances. Everything (even the most prussian or isntruccionist method get assimilited by the human been by a construccionist process). Everyone can play if this is construccionism or constructivism. By the way, all the people that is worried about construccionism, should train his dog. IF you are not able to train your dog using construccionist methods (constructivist, ok?) is lacking a deep understanding of the principles (learning by doing). Or... let's be fair... they don't like dogs! (but a good reading about all the dog training methods will bring a big surprise... dogs are trained with some constructivist methods from many years ago... ask the germans BEFORE the 1st world war). All the people that is worry about IF construccionism works or not... they can come to Peru and develop a serious study about how it is working in Peru. As far as I have learn there are hundreds of schools in all social levels that are applying this construccionism. I ask myself somethings related to construccionism: a) Who decided that our peruvian children needs XOs with construccionism inside and not a plain Laptop? (what studies and previous experience have been around the whole world to prove that this works... or is that the peruvian children have taken as guinea pigs to develop and prove some educational theories). ohh... I remenber who... our Minister of Education knew Mr. Papert some time ago... well.. the same: where is the BASE LINE ? What are the guaranties that this peruvian deployment will not fail as the previous one that were develop in other countries? b) Please Edward don't cite some obscure document written about some schools or some experiment. That is not good enough. You, as any person that develop science, knows that this is a pilot and after your pilot succeed you need to *_VALIDATE_* the data. And for validation you need *_BIG numbers of tests_* and analysis. Are the peruvian kids the one that are going to validate the Construccionism/XO as a tool for the development and poverty solution? If that is true then you got by blessings. But, honestly, you, specially you Edward, you need to lower your tone. Our kids are doing you a favor, we, all peruvians are doing you a favor.. what if ALL THIS FAILS? Some humility and recognition that this whole things is walking on thin ice should be good for the sake of the children. Saying all the time I have the reason and all the other ones are wrong put the whole project in a very bad situation. Why? Becuase some peruvian politics believe in what you are saying. IF the project fails I will live in MY country for the rest of the life with all the damage that can happen (in educational and politic affairs), you, Edward, will come back to your daily life. Who is taken the risk? We, the peruvians. So, please, don't present the whole thing as the holly grial because you are doing damage to the future not only of the kids but for the whole peruvian population. Let's don't play with the expectations of humble people. Let's deliver a computer that works, first point. Then we can add some fireworks and in a very humble tone we can speak about the way that the peruvian teachers will teach to the peruvian kids. These, in some sense, are more my kids that your kids, Edward. b) You don't need to brake a leg to know that it will hurt. This simple fact can be seen as an instruccionist way of learning or a construccionism (deduction) way of learning. Both things are sides of the same coin. And both things are natural to the human. The mother that tells his boy don't touch the fire is pure instruccionist. If she allows that the child feels the heat of
Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view
Albert Cahalan wrote: From what I can tell, constructionism (c13m) is a buzzword that vaguely refers to an age-old teaching practice: learning by doing. The idea appears to be extremely old, though not the norm. Ditching the buzzword would be appreciated; it only serves to obfuscate. From what I can tell, c13m is an awful lot like unschooling. Perhaps you can explain the difference. FYI, what happens _without the teacher around_ is probably not what the adults would like. Kids play games, fight, view porn, vandalize things... It's been 28 years since the Mindstorms book. If the idea still hasn't caught on, there must be a reason. The teachers have decided. Normal teachers will thwart any effort to change teaching. Tying the success of a laptop program to massive changes in teacher behavior is not right. Just to tell you (I did it before... I think so...)... I have talk with 2 teachers here in Peru (one my sister in law and other one a friend). Both inform me that almost all peruvian teachers (from the coast area) know about construccionism and use it in everyday classromm and lessons. That is because around year 2000 there was an order that need to follow IF they want to keep in the public system: they need to assist to a set of training days to learn about the new method that the Minister of Education will applies to the whole peruvian education: construccionism. So... if someone needs to do a statistical serious study about what has happen after this experience then there are hundreds of peruvian teachers and schools that have develop some kind of actual experience (firts hand experience) in construccionism applied to kids. My sister in law teachs in one of the most exclusive and expensive schools (for kids that belongs to the upper top class and sons/daughters of diplomatics, politics, etc.) and the other teacher that I have speak teach in a public school. And they have told me at the same time that they use construccionism in every day but in a mix (with instruccionism) and adapting it to their own daily needs (very peruvian way to do it, we are survivors all the way). So the impression that I got from the meeting with this teachers is that they use it at the same time than other methods according to the circumstances and according to the kid or the school enviroment. But... they are just 2 teachers and it was a ver long and relaxed conversation, not a statistical study. By the way, according to what I have been told... they went to get the training in construccionism because a written notice were given to them: do it or you will be out of the educational system. A very prussian/instruccionist way to teach construccionism! :-[But that is normal... no big deal... just a funny situation... sometimes you need to lead, sometimes you need to participate, and sometimes you need to obey. That is life from the very born of the human race. Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Microsoft
Nick Negroponte has said : Open Firmware V2, the free and open source BIOS, is now capable of running Linux, Microsoft Windows XP and other operating systems, and was developed by Firmworks with support from OLPC. This will enable dual boot of OLPC XO laptops with Microsoft Windows XP in addition to the existing Fedora-based system and will become the standard BIOS/bootloader for all XO systems when completed. With this free BIOS, the XO-1 continues to be the most open laptop hardware currently available. This is totally different that we have been informed, the V2 version of the BIOS is able to run a double boot. Huge difference!!! Good or bad? Everyone has its own answer. Now the XOs are a more general tool, a broader range of happenings we will see. So... all the new 200,000 XOs that will come to Peru will come with this new V2 Bios. and the first 45,000 will be updated? Or we have to deal with a mixed enviroment? (no problem... just asking...) Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Microsoft
Kurt H Maier wrote: How is this relevant? When Microsoft sits down and throws its vast resources at making Windows just work on the XO-1, it's going to blow our current FOSS distributions out of the water. *That's* what worries me. We don't have suspend and resume working without breaking SD cards. We're retooling Sugar's datastore. OLPC3 is being born. A couple million dollars from Microsoft could turn out a Windows install that *works*, and then no country on the planet would bother even looking at a feature-incomplete FOSS alternative I think the way to protect Sugar and to take a step further in the whole project is giving one step back: Sugar must be able to run on any Linux distro. I know that it is hard... but IF we are able to take this step back then Sugar (and many other things) will be in better competitive position. Regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIPA done
Martin et al,
Not a lawyer... but I know law and I have studied the issue of law and
filtering of the public information and I gave consulting to many
congressmen that were the ones that establish the peruvian laws about
what children can see and cannot see (I will not get in the debate
about what they can see and what they cannot see... but, for the
record: my first priority is to fight against VIOLENCE in the public
media: all forms of violence, in the sports, in the comic programs, in
the news, in the songs (rap this one!), in the movies. Only adults
should be able to see a violent movie. But this is beyond the point of
"filtering").
Peru has signed and ratified the "Protocolo Opcional a la
Convencin sobre Derechos del Nio, sobre la Venta de Nios,
Prostitucin Infantil y Pornografa Infantil". That was done in years
2000 and 2001 (check data at the bottom of this message).
The specific peruvian laws are the law 28119 (December 2003) and its
modifications issue on law 29139 (December 2007)
Internet is like life: more dangerous if you walk in the wild side. If
you are an adult that is fine. If you are a minor then the
responsability is of your parents, teachers or person in charge.
Furthermore we have many laws about the responsability of the ones that
administer the public media: the TV signals, the radio signals, all the
wireless signals, and the use of public property: air, soil, money and
other resources.
With this in mind, I can inform that in Peru this is the law:
a) If you set up an Internet Cafe, or you are responsible teacher or
director or principal in a school, you must PROVIDE a method for
"protecting" the children from what can be seen as "innapropiate"
information (porno is the most known... but if you apology about
terrorism in front of children, or you speak in favor of racism... then
you are in deep waters). The law applies too for the public
institutions (like schools) that provide access to the Internet
(article 1).
b) The filtering software MUST be installed on each computer (not in a
proxy or any other intermediary device). Article 2 ("El cumplimiento
de esta obligacion se hace efectivo mediante la instalacin, en todas
las computadoras, de programas o software especiales de filtro y
bloqueo...")
b) There are huge penalties for those that don't provide the method
(filtering software). The minimum is about 4 years in jail.
c) All the computers involved in this kind of infraction will be taken
from its owners and send to the judge and he will assign new use for
those equipments even BEFORE he finish the analysis of the whole issue,
develop the trial and give a final decision.
d) All the people (owners, administrators) that is involved on the
issue will get not only jail but economic penalties.
All the neccesary laws can be search in our legal official database,
the daily newspaper that comes with all the peruvian laws issue on the
previous day. www.ElPeruano.com.pe (then click on "search laws" and
you put the name of the law that you are searching, or code, or any
word. The whole site is in spanish so your "101 Foreing language" will
be big help.
At the end of this message, some of the more specific laws and norms
that are in use. They are in spanish too.
Best regards,
Javier Rodriguez
Lima, Peru
Procesando...
MUNICIPALIDAD
PROVINCIAL DEL CALLAO
ORDENANZA
04
Modifican Ordenanza que establece prohiciones y sanciones al acceso a
pginas pornogrficas por menores de edad o al pblico en general a
pginas web con contenido de pornografa infantil
16/02/2006
MUNICIPALIDAD
METROPOLITANA DE LIMA
ORDENANZA
808
Regulan acceso de menores de edad a pginas web de contenido
pornogrfico, pornografa infantil, violencia extrema y/o similares
19/08/2005
MUNICIPALIDAD DE
CARMEN DE LA LEGUA
ORDENANZA
011-2004-MDCLR
Establecen prohibiciones y sanciones al acceso del pblico a pginas
web sobre pornografa infantil y de menores de edad a pginas web de
contenido pornogrfico o que ofendan la moral y el pudor
25/04/2004
MUNICIPALIDAD DE LA
PUNTA
ORDENANZA
011-2004-MDLP/ALC
Prohiben acceso a pginas web de contenido pornogrfico u otras que
ofendan la moral y el pudor, a menores de edad y de pornografa
infantil al pblico en general
01/04/2004
RELACIONES
EXTERIORES
DECRETO SUPREMO
078-2001-RE
Ratifican Protocolos de la Convencin sobre los Derechos del Nio
relativos a la participacin de nios en conflictos armados,venta de
nios,prostitucin infantil y utilizacin de nios en pornografa
06/10/2001
RELACIONES
EXTERIORES
RESOLUCION SUPREMA
489-2000-RE
Delegan facultades para suscribir el "Protocolo Opcional a la
Convencin sobre Derechos del Nio, sobre la Venta de Nios,
Prostitucin Infantil y Pornografa Infantil"
12/10/2000
Martin Dengler wrote:
Re: CIPA done
Hello John and all, Tip 1: Due to one of my previous works I have been able to check the log of huge servers here in Peru. I was looking for technical reasons for some weird behaviour on a small network. Then, suddenly, I realize that the word sex and sex related websites were all over the log. I check randomly about 20 pages and in 20 different days and it was the same. I can roughly calculate that more than 70% of the use on this servers were related to sex (Huge Hefner was the one that start this commercialization in the U.S. but in old Peru we had an anncient civilization, named Mochica, that manufacture old ceramics with very explicit sex ceramics, we have them in all museums. You can imagine the face of the Spaniards conquerors (that were ruled by their holly inquisition when they realize these old Peruvian fellows kept sex related ceramics in every house)... There are thousands and thousands of sex ceramics all gymnastics that you can imagine or dream! O:-) The kamasutra is a boring book in comparison (these ceramics are 3D!) ... Well... just for been more specific, my old and dear Mochica civilization develop a huge civilization, very developed, but... they eat the heart of the prisioners too (like the Aztecs in Mexico). Tip 1: Times change... but SEX keeps on the field play in all times. Tip 2: I was in a small, very small village in the high Andes, around 3 years ago. I was in an very isolated town, around 1,000 families approximately (so there was an Internet Cafe). I was not able to avoid noticing a group of 7 kids (around 10 to 14 years old). Big noise, big smiles, laughing... then I heard and realize that they were checking the net for nude women... and I got surprised when I open ears very wide (like the rabbit ears on the XO) and I realize that the search was very specific: they were looking for blonds! only blonds! Tip 2: It happens in the best families and in all environments. Tip 3: About 4 months ago I have read a report about what are the most searched words by country: uhmmm... I don't want to offend any nationality... but... in Peru is sex (I am innocent!), in U.S. was girl or chick (you just want to talk...)... in France it was gay (they are looking for more fun... I guess!) ... I was surprided to realize that in Chile it was gay too... (my Chilean friends... just coming out from the closet?)... and the list continues... Tip 3: It comes to your door in many forms and flavors. My conclusion, from those experiences, is that deviation from what we can see as our intended goal (education) is very near and knock our door all time. Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru John Watlington wrote: On May 8, 2008, at 7:58 PM, Martin Dengler wrote: On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 04:06:03PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: [. . .] It is sufficient if we clearly obey the law, and don't seek to go beyond it. Any lawyers around? go beyond implies interpret -- the only safe course is to comply exactly and minimally, IMHO. I was contacted by Julie Lindner of the EFF about this issue after a previous thread on devel. I described the situation about three weeks ago, and asked if EFF could clarify what is needed (and what laws apply). She hasn't replied yet (I imagine the EFF is busier than OLPC.) If you want to contact her let me know and I'll forward her email address. wad ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: CIPA done
I don't know why Hal... that was not one of my suggestions to the law. Been in the law is not a guarantee that is related to justice or related to technical stuff. Be totally sure that the kids will disable the filters by themselves... (go kids! :-) ) but the problem is the same: we need to provide some filtering software to be installed on the XO. It is the law. If we don't agree then we need to change the law, but if the law stays the same then we have to follow the law. This could be a design: a) The teacher takes a XO, or use the XO of one pupil, and update a table of forbidden sites from the internet database (there are many). b) The other XOs take the data from the main XO (or from the XServer if you want or need). c) Every XO will have a small take this port - send to other port and filter the stuff in the middle. web protocols are easily available and no hard at all. There is plenty of open sourced servers (for all the protocols) that can be modified to do this task d) Every XO will tell to the teacher's XO if it is running the filtering software. If not every teacher must take appropriate measures (it is on the teacher hands and responsibility, it is the law, we just need to provide the filtering software). I am sure that there are better designs and proposals from the collectivity here. Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru (some people doesn't like when I am passing the voice about bad news, they think that I am playing the role of Devil's advocate by wrong reasons. But that is a training and needed role in any serious law school. If not... then you are a cash lawyer (one that get his bills paid from presenting at the court but it is not ready to win the case). Hal Murray wrote: b) The filtering software MUST be installed on each computer (not in a proxy or any other intermediary device). Article 2 (El cumplimiento de esta obligacion se hace efectivo mediante la instalación, en todas las computadoras, de programas o software especiales de filtro y bloqueo...) Why? Regulations have a long history of getting in trouble when they specify some implementation detail which turns out the be not-such-a-great choice in a few years. I wonder when the botnet herders will start offering kids downloads that claim to disable their local filters. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Server-devel] Collaboration between schools
I would love to hear what are those economic reasons. I am sure that most of you know that if they are connecting to the Internet then the big cost is paid. The rest are peanuts. So... what are those economic reasons to don't allow collaboration between schools? Today economic reasons... don't get surprise when you hear new and different rationalizations. Collaboration between schools would mean total communication between them. You need to understand what is an UGEL (UGEL = administrative unit in charge of many schools in what you would call a county) ... Every UGEL in Peru feels they are owners of this or that territory. If the schools (teachers and pupils) join then they are going further than the UGEL borders. This, in the eyes of UGEL authorities, is not seen as a good control policy (control in all aspects that you can imagine). Are the XOs property of the children? Yes? Then I shut my big mouth. Not? Then we (you, me, all) need to think that this no communication between schools is just the tip of the iceberg. We need to think in different ways to force (friendly) the collaboration and bring down the walls that every small (or big) educative authority needs to put over what they think they control (the XOs, the project, etc.) Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru C. Scott Ananian wrote: On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 6:28 PM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I learned more about the network built by the MED in Peru for their schools. Each school is in its own VLAN, and cannot route to the other schools, only to the Internet and to MED servers. They have good economic reasons for encouraging this, but it means that inter-school collaboration will have to happen through data pushed to an MED server (and won't be real-time activity collaboration). This is exactly why I wrote the http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Network_principles document. We should tell Peru that their network infrastructure does not allow collaboration between schools, not feel compelled to solve their problems for them by engineering some fancy multihop proxy system to live on MED servers. In the future, they can create tunnels through the MED servers if they wish to allow collaboration. --scott ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Is security activation critical in Peru ?
Dear John and all, I will share some personal points of view in relationship with the security issue in Peru. I have work since 1979 with computers and I have trade and repair more than 20,000 computers from those early years. I can say that I know this field very deep from first hand. /On the other hand, I was told at lunch today by members of the Peru deployment that software activation is a critical and necessary feature. / is Software activation critical? If the XOs are deployed in the poorest towns then there is small possibilities for theft and robberies. In those small villages (with 100 families approximately) all of them know each other: you can not enter or leave the village without been noticed (or allowed). Those towns are from 3,500 to 5,000 meters altitude and there is around 5,000 in Peru. No young gangs there. If the XOs are deployed in bigger cities (that is the case for most of the XOs in Peru from the information that we have got) then there is a theoretical risk. /In previous deployments of computers, Peru saw a high theft rate in the delivery process. / Previous deployments... do you mean the Huascaran project then we (the public opinion, the media) doesn't have a clue about this. That delivery is an old fact, very hard to track its accuracy (but not impossible). If you mean XOs previous deployment then is the same: we, the public opinion and the media, and the Congress... we don't know a bit about that fact. In this case there would be high responsibilities for many people involved in the deployment. And I am 99.99% that the robbery has not happen without the participation of at least one person that knows inner things about the deployment (that is common issue, ask any police in your country where he would search). If the robbery has happen as part of a bigger robbery then it was an accident not related to some bad guys wanting to get some XOs, it was a general robbery. /The activation process allows them to tell potential thieves and potential purchasers of hot systems that the laptops will be useless bricks. / No way. It is just another wall to climb. You know Russians? well... we have some Peruvian groups that are as skillful as the Russians are. I don't say that with proud, I just letting know what happens here. There are Colombians experts that come to Peru to clone every bit of any digital system that you can imagine: credit cards, bank codes, computer security systems. It is, as you know, a matter of time, interest and resources. /Here in the US, the cost of disassembling, switching SPI flash chips, and reassembling approaches $60 - $70 dollars (I asked several small job shops for quotes.) / well... some guys here will be more than happy to ask just $10 for doing the same job (again my words come without any proud on them). I think that the critical things for Peru are : a) Guarantee that the XOs will be property of the children. b) Guarantee that there will be REAL content (not the kind that exist today, with just one author (not very known) with more than 30 dark publications). c) Guarantee that the XOs will be a COMMUNICATION system with the world (not only a communication tool between a very poor group of children that will construct their solutions based on their limited experiences without taking in account what the human race have develop during centuries). I ask your pardon for these so biased points of view. With the best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru John Watlington wrote: On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:52 PM, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: On 24.04.2008 20:32, C. Scott Ananian wrote: 11. Bitfrost: initial activation security. ... For completeness, I will note that although passive and active kill theft-deterrence systems have been implemented on Sugar/GNU/Linux, only initial activation security has been deployed in the field. Passive and active kill systems entail large support costs which OLPC has chosen to date not to incur. AFAIK the hardware side of P_THEFT alias theft protection alias activation security/kill functionality has not been implemented, rendering all software efforts moot. In my opinion, shared by other engineers at Quanta, the proposed hardware side of P_THEFT would not have slowed you down much. Dremel-ing off the epoxy wouldn't take long. The effect it WOULD have is to add at least a hour (if not 24) of latency to the manufacturing process, and to decrease the manufacturing yield, both of which would have increased the price. I discussed this with numerous people at Quanta. On the other hand, I was told at lunch today by members of the Peru deployment that software activation is a critical and necessary feature. In previous deployments of computers, Peru saw a high theft rate in the delivery process. The activation process allows them to tell potential thieves and potential purchasers of hot systems that the laptops will be useless bricks. Have we made it impossible to
Re: [OLPC-Peru] networking scenarios
Hello Yama and all, I am afraid that maybe americans that are in charge of developing were the XOs will be located can think that they are installing the XOs in andean humble towns. And according to what I am reading maybe the goverments (my goverment!) is giving instructions to install this on this town or this in other other town. But, I am suspecting that these are not the humble towns. They look humble for the american eyes, and sure that they are poor for the developed world standards. Humble tows and villages in Peru: IF there is a youth gang in the town then you can be TOTALLY SURE that it is not a small town or a humble village or an isolated area. No way. I don't know Bolivia very deep but in Peru the humble, poor, isolated towns and villages are located over the 3,500 meters, they have a total population of around 100 families, they have a school with just one teacher (that is not able to travel to a big city to get XO training), 50% of the adult women don't have national identification document or are included in any registry, 50% of all born babies will not reach the 12 years old mark, there is no electricity and they are 5 hours away (by car) from the nearest civilized (occidental?) town (that can have around 1,000 families). In Peru there are around 5,000 (five thousand) villages and towns that I would call humble, forgotten, isolated. So, you add another parameter to the recognition signs to know were we are: IF there is SOME risk of a young gang stealing the XOs then we are not in a humble town. If we add all the previously signaled factors then it doesnt matter who tell us what or in wich scenario we are located: we will be able to recognize if we have reach the poorest between the poor. Other different thing are the forgotten poor areas near the big cities: then we find young gangs, no doubt. Too much. They use swords (sorry... the spanish word is machete... ) and guns. As any young gang in the worst neighboorhood in developed cities. I hope this helps to all involved people to recognize the real danger that we will face in humble towns: not reaching them. Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru Yama Ploskonka wrote: Samuel Klein wrote: Javier, The humble towns are most important. One advantage of OLPC in humble towns is the real support of the community for the kids' safety when going home with the XO. It has been mentioned in another list the real risk of (city) youth gangs taking away XOs just for the fun of it, to simply ruin the day for a kid. Such a thing would be promptly dealt with effectively, with legacy discipline methods for the youth involved, in any small town I can think of. An aside : when I was last in New York (for the story jam a couple weekends ago) I saw a UNICEF poster display of a disaster-area school in a box -- two suitcase-sized containers with all of the materials and power-generators needed to run a single server creating its own sat or radio internet connection, and a few attached terminals. The design was for regions with no infrastructure at all. A poster mockup listed XOs as ideal terminals... One of my crazier scenarios of going to Bolivia is of going by land, with just such a setup, running XOs all along the way. Might still happen, though I have other fish to fry right now. Yama SJ 2008/4/11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello Dafydd and all... *Question:* I think that you mean that the school server has internet access. Is it possible to have a school server without internet access ? (just to do... what? bigger collaboration between the XOs? software repository? documents books repository?. Many scenarios are possible. So I think you can add to the fourth scenarios: Internet access or No internet access and what kind: ADSL, phone line, Satelital, or other ways. *Idea:*Add to your scenarios: Kind of energy available for the XOs: Then we will face the forgotten problem: the humble towns, the ones that are over the 3,500 meters altitude, the ones that are in the worst scenarios... they don't have any kind of electricity. So the cranck, the solar panels, air or human generated energy is part of the equation IF we are going to reach those worst scenarios. Helping first the ones that will survive? That is for first aid in disasters. In this case we must try to help the forgotten worst scenarios and I hope that MOST of the XOs that come to Peru will go to the poorest towns. *Comment:* You say: ... - school WiFi - access points - school server with Jabber server - only one server at a time - this is what is deployed in Peru ... ... this is the situation most of our existing laptops are deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar. I think that this scenario is good for a test, not as the intended niche were the XOs must be deployed. I think the XO
Re: networking scenarios
Hello Dafydd and all... _*Question:*_ I think that you mean that the school server has internet access. Is it possible to have a school server without internet access ? (just to do... what? bigger collaboration between the XOs? software repository? documents books repository?. Many scenarios are possible. So I think you can add to the fourth scenarios: Internet access or No internet access and what kind: ADSL, phone line, Satelital, or other ways. _*Idea: *_Add to your scenarios: Kind of energy available for the XOs: Then we will face the forgotten problem: the humble towns, the ones that are over the 3,500 meters altitude, the ones that are in the worst scenarios... they don't have any kind of electricity. So the cranck, the solar panels, air or human generated energy is part of the equation IF we are going to reach those worst scenarios. Helping first the ones that will survive? That is for first aid in disasters. In this case we must try to help the forgotten worst scenarios and I hope that MOST of the XOs that come to Peru will go to the poorest towns. _*Comment:*_ You say: ... - school WiFi - access points - school server with Jabber server - only one server at a time - this is what is deployed in Peru ... ... this is the situation most of our existing laptops are deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar. I think that this scenario is good for a test, not as the intended niche were the XOs must be deployed. I think the XO computers in Peru will get better use in the WORST scenarios. A kid that lives in a town with a school that have 5 standard PCs with dialup Internet is in better condition that a kid that lives in a town with a school with no PCs and no Internet. Who need us more? The second one. Who will benefit more? The second one. Yes, yes, yes. It is harder to put the XOs in the WORST scenario. And maybe 20% of the kids that are now 6 years old will not reach the 12 years old in those forgotten villages in my country (Peru). But... we must try. _*Better scenario (for developing best help with poorest children): *_There is no need to travel to the high andes to find the kids that need us more. There are schools in the surroundings of Lima with no light, no tables, no desks, no chairs. Every kid is sit down in a brick. The teacher uses the wall as board. I don't know how many of this schools exists in Lima. But for sure that they exist, dozens? Yes, no doubt. Ah... the last earthquake gave us another opportunity: just 3 hours away from Lima, in the coast, no mountains, 90% of the schools have been destroyed. In this Ica region Children are studying (if they are studying) in any kind of temporal school ... in the worst conditions. There must be more than 200 schools (all sizes) destroyed there. Those kids deserve the opportunity to get a XO that can improve their educational conditions? Yes. No doubt. I hope that upcoming XO deployments will get not the poor children but the POOREST children in Peru. Let's keep moving. Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru Dafydd Harries wrote: This is something which was not completely clear to me until I talked to Wad about it the other day, and I think other people might find it useful. It should probably go on the wiki (assuming it isn't already there somewhere). I'd like some feedback about where it belongs. The closest thing I've found is this page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Scenario_taxonomy Any errors are my own. There are four networking scenarios: - simple mesh - no access point - no school server - we are currently aiming to support up to 15 laptops in this case - simple WiFi - access points - which tend not to handle multicast very well (1Mbit/s peak) - no school server - this is what G1G1 laptops will tend to encounter - typically in the developed world - school mesh - no access point - school server with Jabber server - school WiFi - access points - school server with Jabber server - only one server at a time - this is what is deployed in Peru Our current priority in terms of collaboration is to improve supprt for the fourth case, as this is the situation most of our existing laptops are deployed in, and it's likely that upcoming deployments will be similar. Our secondary priority is improving support for the second case, as this is what will tend happen when laptops are taken home from school. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: A proposal to give some DICTIONARY pre-installed on the XOs that will be delivered to Peruvian Kids
From the threads... For the XO, it would be great if dictionaries were *not* constant databases. Many of the countries where the XO is/will be deployed have local languages for which good free electronic dictionaries very much do not exist. Moreover, even in places where the local language is digital-age, creating a schoolwide jargon file would be a great project for involving the kids. I agree: some dynamic database will be better than a static database. It is not hard to build: just add a form and some append/sort routine to the main database. Easy to say! (smile)... the upgrade/add words option can not be done in plain javascript (it goes against the idea that javascript comes from the server and runs on the client machine in a typical Internet connection... many security issues raise up!). So... the add/upgrade option or form needs to feed some php or java or phyton or... any other language that can be installed on the XO (I don't know which ones are installed in this moment... which languages come installed with the XO? Phyton and... what else? ) _*Sharing new words*_: how the modifications of one user can be shared with the rest of the group or the rest of the neighborhood ? Possible answers: * The school server will collect, organize and share the additional words meanings. * The MESH will be the one that will share (automatically?) for all additional words. The mesh IS the server. The problem with my all in memory proposal is that the XO has 256MB of memory... how many megabyes are available for user programs (activities) after the XO boots and call the Sugar enviroment? How many can be used by the all in memory translator without retarding the most common tools inside sugar (like a common user that is playing with eToys, Firefox browser and Tam-Tam... just for example...). When we realize how many MB are available we will know IF the dynamic database can grow based only over the free memory or it needs to work over a bigger medium (like the 1GB falsh memory) or ... other options? uhmm... setting up a ram disk in the flash memory and then the dictionary database can be bigger... _*Size of dictionaries: *_Dictionaries no need to be huge. These are for children and young kids (6 to 12 years old). Since dictionaries are just words (no images) the size of the words database will be small. In my database 16,000 english words (many are for adults... for I have not clean the database)...with their translation, takes around 600 K. So a fully revised children edition would be smaller in size. Other use of the seach find routines of these dictionary programs: I am speaking about dictionary... but it is an error from my part... what we are developing are translators. But it is the very same routine to develop dictionaries: just replace the 2nd part of the equation: the translation will become the meaning. So we will have english word = spanish word or english word = english meaning ... and many other combinations: common phrases... localisms... concepts... etc. _*Othe names different than words ? *_uhmm.. Say what? (¿Que dice?) Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru Chris Ball wrote: Hi Javier, An idea is born I have read that the boys and girls in the pilots develop in the high andes of my country (Peru) has been demanding some tool to translate some english words that they want to know. I understand fully their curiosity and need. We both had the same response to reading this request from the pilot! I wrote a Sugar activity that does multilingual word translation. We've been talking about it on the sugar@ mailing list, here's a link: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.laptop.olpc.sugar/4443 I'd be interested to hear your feedback on the activity, and if you have any suggestions on which dictionaries are best to use. I'm using this one for Spanish at the moment: http://www.june29.com/IDP/files/Spanish.txt Thanks! - Chris. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC library] A proposal to give some DICTIONARY pre-installed on the XOs that will be delivered to Peruvian Kids
Hello Dr. Kalyanaram I had earlier given a free licence to use, and submitted my Indian Lexicon (for 25 languages) for inclusion in OLPC. When you say Indian lexicon... it means a 25 international languages lexicon build in India or 25 Indian languages ??? (In Peru we have Quechua (around 4 to 6 varieties), Aymara (I don't know if it is a unique version, and the Instituto de Verano (NGO) described more than 40 other languages in the peruvian jungle). A general consensus may have to be arrived at on the availability of basic lexical/language resources at various levels, from primary to secondary school levels. Our goverment (peruvian goverment) says that this project is for primary schools (6 to 12 years old aproximately). I don't think that we must ask the children to return his/her dear XO once he get 12 years old... we, old grown adults, use many kinds of devices that are small: cellullars palmtops are very common and we check mail, and send short messages... if we open the window... why we need to close it when the kid reachs 12 years old? (that window reference is without any 2nd implication! (smile) ). Every prospective OLPC user is a child and will not be restricted to children alone, particularly in, for example, the rural areas of India with one billion population with a large percentage of illiteracy. uhmmm... that was I thought when I realize there will be 250,000 XOs in Peru in the next year (40,000 are here in this moment). All of these machines can CHANGE the whole world because they are the TOOLS to communicate with the world. One of the big problems that will arise in 2 or 3 years is when these machines will be used to develop VOIP (very low bandwith needed). Communication tools they are! then they will be used as COMMUNICATION tools without any restriction. Learning tool: in some areas of Peru more than 70% of the women are not able to read, that's what official statistics show. From my personal experience I can say that it is not rare in the isolated towns and villages that the women are not able to speak spanish (only the men), and they have not personal identification document (no I.D they don't exist for the occidental society.. but they pay taxes: every soft drink, every beer (thats the kind of occidental culture that we carry to those towns) has its government tax included (VAT)). My conclusion: XOs are not for children only. They will be revolutionary tool for this generation. It should be. Regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru kalyan97 wrote: Sorry for digressing on the subject of Dictionaries on OLPC and taking the issue beyond Peru. I had earlier given a free licence to use, and submitted my Indian Lexicon (for 25 languages) for inclusion in OLPC. A general consensus may have to be arrived at on the availability of basic lexical/language resources at various levels, from primary to secondary school levels. Every prospective OLPC user is a child and will not be restricted to children alone, particularly in, for example, the rural areas of India with one billion population with a large percentage of illiteracy. Best regards, Dr. S. kalyanaraman On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 5:02 AM, Samuel Klein [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/3/11 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: I agree: some dynamic database will be better than a static database. It is not hard to build: just add a form and some append/sort routine to the main database. Easy to say! (smile)... the upgrade/add words option can not be done in plain javascript (it goes against the idea that javascript comes from the server and runs on the client machine in a typical Internet connection... many security issues raise up!). So... the add/upgrade option or form needs to feed some php or java or phyton or... any other language that can be installed on the XO (I don't know which ones are installed in this moment... which languages come installed with the XO? Phyton and... what else? ) Effectively, just Python. Sharing new words: how the modifications of one user can be shared with the rest of the group or the rest of the neighborhood ? Possible answers: * The school server will collect, organize and share the additional words meanings. To keep a record of all dictionary changes made by each individual, you will need to do something on a machine or site with a fair bit of memory that intends to be up for a long time. XOs will probably want a way to merge a new dictionary with their existing one, from the mesh, a server, or another place; it has no reason to store lots of changes in memory. So we will have english word = spanish word or english word = english meaning ... and many other combinations: common phrases
Raise the level of the Hardware specifications... or let's do some field tests!
Hello, I am trying to pass this info to some hardware development list... but I don't know where it is or if it exists. Anyway, maybe some person can register this bug (?) to the tracking system... if you consider that this is a bug.. or if it is something valuable to be taken in account... -- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Hardware_specification Environmental specifications Maximum altitude: --15m to 3048m (14.7 to 10.1 PSIA) (operating), --15m to 12192m (14.7 to 4.4 PSIA) (non-operating); -- The Huancavelica city (big city, poor city) is at 12,100 feet (around 3,688 meters) altitude. There are tons of computers in that city, they work without any modification. I think that the 3.048 m altitude capacity must been raised... maybe it has not been tested accurately.. or.. other reasons? The more isolated children are in the 4,500 meters (around 15,000 feet) Cuzco city is at 12,500 feet = 3,810 meters altitude. (so... no XOs for Cuzco city.. and that is the capital of the region... there are hundreds of smaller villages in higher altitude in the Cuzco surrounding areas). Table 10,000 feet = 10.11 PSIA 11,000 feet = 9.73 PSIA 12,000 feet = 9.35 PSIA 13,000 feet = 8.96 PSIA 14,000 feet = 8.63 PSIA 15,000 feet = 8.29 PSIA Andahuaylas city = 13,000 feet The maximum altitude in hardware specification for all the equipment should be raised. In Peru the towns (villages) that you can find in the 3,048 meters vecinity are not the poorest or the ones that are more isolated. Our national president (Mr. Alan García) launch a law proposal to do all territories over the 3,200 meters altitude a tax free territories. That is because, in the words of the President, and according to all our national statiscall records, the deep poverty and the isolation starts at 3,000 meters altitude. Below the 3,000 meters altitude... well... there is poverty in whole Peru... but some tests should be done to see if the XOs (and the rest of the hardware) can work at more than 3,048 meters altitude. I think they will work because I have seen normal standard PCs and all kind of equipment working at 4,500 meters altitude. That is the altitude were all the isolated communities (the ones that need more our help) are located. There are around 5,000 villages and small communities (with 100 families each village, averaged) over the 4,000 meters altitude. Deep poverty in those areas. Maybe the manufacturer (Quanta?) can put more light over the issue. My guess is that the capacity of the XOs is underestimated by the manufacturer... Best regards, Javier Some useful for those interested in the issue... About PSIAs: http://www.aempower.com/Faqs.aspx?FaqCategoryID=30 About the 2006 peruvian map of poverty: www.foncodes.gob.pe ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
A proposal to give some DICTIONARY pre-installed on the XOs that will be delivered to Peruvian Kids
The English Spanish Dictionary Number of english words: 16,938 Date: March 10. 09:08 p.m. EST. Published on http://www.olpc-peru.info/dictionary Download the zipped files here: http://www.olpc-peru.info/dictionary/english-spanish.zip Size 600K aprox. http://www.olpc-peru.info/dictionary/english-spanish.zip An idea is born I have read that the boys and girls in the pilots develop in the high andes of my country (Peru) has been demanding some tool to translate some english words that they want to know. I understand fully their curiosity and need. A proposal to the XO developers and content related groups The XOs computers can have pre-installed some files so the kids no need to be on line (connected) all the time. For this purpose I have taken some previous works (freely available on the Internet) and some dictionaries (free on the Internet) and modify to put them in a form that can be used in all XOs. The system is just 2 files: an HTML file (you named index.html or any name, copy it to any directory on the XO computer). The other file is the english-spanish database (a javascript file). Copy to the same directory where you install the .html file. (ahh... there are no directories in the XO... ok... you adapt my words to the XO!) The systems take 600K of the memory of the XO. Since the XO has 256MB I think that there should be room for a 600K file. I know better approaches exists. How to install in the XO Now you can create a direct link or a direct access to the XO general shell (Sugar) and put it on the Frame (is it possible)? If this is not possible... well... the Firefox browser that comes with the XO can have a pre-installed favorite that open the local file (installed on the XO) named english-spanish.html. It is not practical install the html file (and the database) because they are around 600 K in total size. Too big for downloading every time from the Internet. But running the html file from the very same computer that the user have in his/her hands is possible. Any other idea about how to put this in the hands of the kids (pre-installed in the XOs) ? Tests I have been using this hacked program and it works... not the most elegant solution... but it works! Other ideas.. other tests... very welcome! Things to do: a) Use a non linear search routine in the javascript. b) Put more languages (yes, I have a quechua-spanish database too... so we can develop an english-quechua-spanish trilogy!) c) Reverse the database: spanish to english! (done!) d) Add more databases... more words e) Develop common sentences ... dictionary... abstract.. database! f) Allow the translation of sentences based not in a word by word (silly thing) but in real context and meaningful concepts. g) Allow that the boys modify the database so they can add more words or adapt according to their needs... that couldn't be done in Javascript but I can modify the database so it can be modified with a common text file reader/modifier. Ideas, modification and use of this small scripts Any idea, or modification of this program, can be done without any kind of authorization from my part. But if you share your findings with me (and all the communities involved) that would be a nice movement, but that is no an obligation. Have a nice Spanish book reading! (once I publish the reversed database) Javier Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.olpc-peru.info Note: forgive me about the so many broken links on the OLPC-PERU.info page. arrggg... who made this day with just 24 hours... ah! God! I will not complain then... ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
What activities are included in the XOs/Sugar that will be delivered in Peru ?
Hello, Two questions: a) I was using the LiveCDs (xubuntu LiveCDs) that exist to test the Sugar enviroment. And I find that they not include very popular applications (activities) that are the base (or the most famous) of the Sugar/XO enviroment: like TamTam, eToys, and other key players in the activities band. How we can get a LiveCD that includes those famous tools? Or I need to install a full Linux/Fedora and install the Sugar Shell there ? b) What activites are included in the XOs/Sugar that will be delivered in Peru ? I am sending this request to the Developers list and to the Sugar list... and to the Peru list (smile)... I will thank the answer because tomorrow we will show XOs/Sugars in front of some people in Peru (passing the voice about the existence and benefits of the XOs and Sugar) and I would like to show those tools working... Thanks! Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Report about Peru Deployment of the XOs/OLPC project
think that the PDFs of medium size would be appropiate for the way that the XOs will connect to the Internet. These are the main issues that I have taken note. After that we speak a little about how the Internet start in Peru and we disagree in our memories in a open, friendly and collaborative environment. I thank Mr. Becerra because he receive me without a previous appointment (I went with the idea of getting the appointment for other day) and I left his office giving thanks to his nice and efficient secretary Mrs. Mary Millones. I have send this same report to Mr. Becerra email. He knows that if he wants to add or correct this document or do any comment I can forward the information to the Library list of the OLPC an other groups of interest. That is all what I can report. I know that I forgot many key questions but Mr. Becerra was very open so I trust that this is not the last time that we can ask direct questions to him. Javier Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.olpc-peru.info Telf. 51-1-967-00520 Address: Calle Artesanos Of. 151. Casilla 106. Surco. Lima, Peru ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Report about Peru Deployment of the XOs/OLPC project
think that the PDFs of medium size would be appropiate for the way that the XOs will connect to the Internet. These are the main issues that I have taken note. After that we speak a little about how the Internet start in Peru and we disagree in our memories in a open, friendly and collaborative environment. I thank Mr. Becerra because he receive me without a previous appointment (I went with the idea of getting the appointment for other day) and I left his office giving thanks to his nice and efficient secretary Mrs. Mary Millones. I have send this same report to Mr. Becerra email. He knows that if he wants to add or correct this document or do any comment I can forward the information to the Library list of the OLPC an other groups of interest. That is all what I can report. I know that I forgot many key questions but Mr. Becerra was very open so I trust that this is not the last time that we can ask direct questions to him. Javier Rodriguez [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.olpc-peru.info Telf. 51-1-967-00520 Address: Calle Artesanos Of. 151. Casilla 106. Surco. Lima, Peru ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: uucp for sneakernet (was Re: Emulating the School...]
Fidonet??!!! You have put tears in my eyes... I was 20 years old, It was 20 years ago... there was no internet (or UUCP nodes) in Peru... we were a bunch (only 20 people, at most) that were interested to connect to something that was outside the country... so we call (dial up)... international call to some phones located in the U.S. to send our request... ah! those times... great times! (first time we connect we hire a big screen and project the connection so all can see the connection... crazies, we were crazy kids! ... well, its gone!) Since I am mounting this small lab to replicate a XO network with access to School Server then I will have to add one more computer (a windows ones) to test the sneaker-networking (well... we will walk 3 meters only! but it is the same!)... If my memory is not wrong (we are old guys, very old!!!) I learn about Fidonet and Compuserve and BBS and similar things reading a gone magazine named Creative Computing... I wonder if the same innovative spirit of that magazine can be translated to the children of this generation with the help of the XOs OLPC... I will check and find for all the UUCP versions (software) in the next days... and I will put them in our website for anyone that want to get back some memories... (or help with the tests!) Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru John Gilmore wrote: uucp ... the first place I'd turn for sneaker-netting posix-ish systems together. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UUCP Yep. UUCP is great if there's a phone line that can dial overnight cheaply, but no Internet. I released the first free implementation of uucp (gnuucp), which was later succeeded by my friend Ian Taylor's Taylor uucp, which I believe is still the best free version. Ian [EMAIL PROTECTED] may still even maintain it (last release: 1.07 in 2003). See: http://www.airs.com/ian/software.html There was also an MSDOS implementation of uuslave (the predecessor of gnuucp), maintained by Tim Pozar [EMAIL PROTECTED], which was widely used to gateway Fidonet nodes to Usenet/UUCP nodes. That was the first project I worked on to bring thousands of 14-year-olds into the global network. See: http://www.lns.com/papers/ufgate/ If a remote school has a dialup phone connection that can run TCP/IP over a modem, that's probably better than running uucp over it, even if you can only run it at night due to telco charges. But uucp has a lot of scheduling and queueing support that more modern TCP/IP systems have forgotten about. John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC Networking] Issues with the wireless mesh devices
Kim wrote: ...The network admin guys are quiet concerned about the DDOS possibilities. I comment, Hi Kim, I am very intested in the networking issue... because I am mounting a small lab to emulate the enviroment of the XOs Acces Point wireless work... About DDOS: At the end of this message the definition of a DDOS (distributed Denial of Service Attack... for those that need to know) Comments: a) DDOS is possibe ONLY if you are connected to the Internet (technically is possible in any enviroment, but lets analyze the most possible common source of problems). b) I imagine the next scenary: 1) Only the School Server (if exists) will be directly connected to the Internet 2) The XOs will have private address, not public internet address. So only the School Server is available for a DDOS. This lead us to 2 other possibilities: I) The S.Server is directly connected to the Internet by... (wich provider? VSAT? wich service?) II) The S.Server is getting the Internet from a tunnel that connects the S.Server with the OLPC foundation Internet connection. III) The S.Server is connected to the Internet by local connections to local internet providers, directly. The S.Server has its own public IP. IV) The S.Server use a dial up to connect to the Internet. Each time it dials the S.Server gets a dynamic public IP address (that comes from a pool that the Internet service provider will assign). The S.Server is a server for the XOs... not a server for the Internet. If you want to deploy an Internet Server and get rid of the problems with DDOS then you can hire (or the OLPC can provide) space in their servers to mount any server service (!) that a kid in Peru (bravo!) want to mount and put at the service of the whole world (super bravo! here we come, naked internet at the root... are coming back to the 80's??? sorry... it is a dream... dangerous dream!) IV) The S.Server is connected to the Internet by other methods, like a USB mule (since I am in Peru I will call it from this moment a USB llama !!!) Each of this scenary can be build with some protection against DDOS (and nothing is perfect), and using NATs will put the responsability of working against DDOS (a daily task, permanent) in the hands of the people/team/company that provide the first internet public ip address in the other side of the NAT. Each of this options (I to V) has its own ways to work against DDOS. I don't think that the network admins should be too worry about DDOS because depending on the networking design this should not be a problem at all. If someone can tell me what is the official network design in this moment, then I can analyze more this DDOS possibility and tell more about measures to avoid. Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru - distributed denial-of-service attack DEFINITION - On the Internet, a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of compromised systems attack a single target, thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system. The flood of incoming messages to the target system essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users. A hacker (or, if you prefer, cracker) begins a DDoS attack by exploiting a vulnerability in one computer system and making it the DDoS master. It is from the master system that the intruder identifies and communicates with other systems that can be compromised. The intruder loads cracking tools available on the Internet on multiple -- sometimes thousands of -- compromised systems. With a single command, the intruder instructs the controlled machines to launch one of many flood attacks against a specified target. The inundation of packets to the target causes a denial of service. While the press tends to focus on the target of DDoS attacks as the victim, in reality there are many victims in a DDoS attack -- the final target and as well the systems controlled by the intruder. http://searchsecurity.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid14_gci557336,00.html - Kim Hawtin wrote: Forwarding due to the quietness over on [EMAIL PROTECTED] =) Kim Hawtin wrote: Is this the correct forum to post questions around the wireless mesh devices? I took an XO to a community wireless[1] monthly meeting this week. We had a number of problems with other wireless devices, we believe directly related, to the XO being turned on, then stopped when the XO was turned off. I purchased some kit the same as in the APs that we use and hope to either confirm or discount the XO as the culprit. The network admin guys are quiet concerned about the DDOS possibilities. The access point is a Alix router board with a pair Atheros wireless minipci NICs. Here is a snippet from the log on the host; ath1: device timeout ath1: hardware error
Re: [OLPC Networking] Issues with the wireless mesh devices
Some ideas: a) Google and other intense information providers have set up their servers to refuse too many requests from the same user in a short period of time. b) filtering (nat or caching software) will be a tool to do the same not only with http but with all the TCP/IP protocols. c) If a pair of XOs turn down an AP... it is an internal DOS. But, in my humble opinion, I wont call it a DOS because there is no intentional attack to the server. Regards, Javier Kim Hawtin wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Kim wrote: ...The network admin guys are quiet concerned about the DDOS possibilities. I comment, Hi Kim, I am very intested in the networking issue... because I am mounting a small lab to emulate the enviroment of the XOs Acces Point wireless work... About DDOS: At the end of this message the definition of a DDOS (distributed Denial of Service Attack... for those that need to know) Given that a pair of XOs shut down the local access point and the AP on the other end of the backbone link connected to the local AP there was more than enough justification to do extra digging. If some one was malicious enough to find a number of backbone nodes on the WAN then you see the problem here. Internet connected or not, the DoS problems remain. Your or my definition of DDos is not relevant in the big scheme of things, until the problem is better understood. regards, Kim ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Emulating the School Server hardware (first things first)
Hello Chris, Hi Daf, Great news. I am located in Peru, tomorrow (today!) On Monday, we (a group of volunteers in Peru) will mount a small lab for helping the global OLPC efforts. I have check the info about the School Server, I understand that the info on the wiki can be a little old or not upgraded... no problem. We would thank if you update us with the configuration that we must set up for the school servers, because I have found this contradictory info: a) Networking devices: there is instructions (written) that the school server must have 4 network connections (UTP) to avoid the use of external switches. But there is a diagram (image) that shows an external switch to develop a network. b) we can use wi.fi access point (linksys) to emulate the OLPC access point... but we need confirmation about what trademark are you using for the access points... in this way we can use the same. c) Are the School Servers that will be installed in Peru without fans? (wich motherboard) What is the intended energy that the School Server must consume? This includes only the CPU or includes the switches/monitor/modem and other equipment related to the CPU? What about the access point? Finally, we have strong interest in connecting this Linux (XOs or regular native installions over x86 machines) to the normal Windows systems. The most possible scenary that the OLPC project will find here in Peru is that it will be needed to send a USB mule to the nearest point/town with regular internet access (internet cafe or cabina). We are studying the Wizzy and all the UUCP related issues. We have detected the need to particularize some aspects due to the nature of Internet in Peru (mostly related to the dominant position of some telecoms here and its reluctant participation in something that will not be under they control... more than 10 years of this position will not change over the night). If you have solutions studied for this USB mule transport then we will stop our worries and studies and turn to other issues, please let us know. Thanks and we hope to collaborate with our small forces here. Best regards, Javier Rodriguez Lima, Peru Chris Ball wrote: Hi, Daf and I got the school server jabberd/shared roster working today. We connected/registered 32 laptops to it with mesh TTL set to 1 for ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Fonts without some spanish characters
Hi all I noticed that some fonts (Kacst..)of the OLPC writting program don't have some spanish characters like the accent, ñ, etc.. the other fonts are working ok thanks Guillermo Spiller ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
