Re: WebM format for Record

2011-06-06 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sun, Apr 10, 2011 at 2:48 AM, Jon Nettleton jon.nettle...@gmail.comwrote:

 
  Oh and there was a question about backwards compatibility.  I know
  there would be work testing it, but I see no problems with backward
  compatibility.  We would just have to check file types and adjust the
  pipeline accordingly.  We would also have to adjust the mimetype
  properties to any Activities that may hard code them.
 

 A quick follow up.  I decided to do a general shoot out for Record and the
 different codecs.  Here is an html5 page that shows all three codecs.

 Upper Left is default Record.  CPU utilization was around 95% on average.
 Upper Right is webm Record   CPU utilization was around 75% on average
 Lower Left is theora 1.2.0alpha1.  CPU Utilization was around 95% on
 average.

 This is with no changes to the pipelines.  I just wanted a quick reference.


This is XO-1.5?

Tiago


  Jon
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Online Update To 10.1.3-XO1 Failing

2011-01-21 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

Am I missing something? It seems UBIFS doesn't go well with online updates.

[olpc@olpc-geode ~]$ sudo olpc-update 10.1.3_xo1-860
Downloading contents of build 10.1.3_xo1-860.
Updating to version hash 94bd3ffd71c4ec433dca2e0e162bcf33
Deleting old incomplete update tmp.J68VmD
Trying irsync_pristine update from rsync://
updates.laptop.org/build-10.1.3_xo1-860
 - Fetching contents.
 - Performing incremental rsync.
rsync: write failed on
/versions/updates/94bd3ffd71c4ec433dca2e0e162bcf33/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/yum/i18n.py:
No space left on device (28)
rsync error: error in file IO (code 11) at receiver.c(302) [receiver=3.0.7]
rsync: connection unexpectedly closed (1822 bytes received so far)
[generator]
rsync error: error in rsync protocol data stream (code 12) at io.c(601)
[generator=3.0.7]
Trying irsync_dirty update from rsync://
updates.laptop.org/build-10.1.3_xo1-860
 - Creating contents for existing tree.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File /usr/sbin/olpc-contents-create, line 100, in module
if __name__ == '__main__': main ()
  File /usr/sbin/olpc-contents-create, line 96, in main
json.write_to_file(f, contents)
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 249,
in write_to_file
return CJsonWriter().write_to_file(f, obj)
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 192,
in write_to_file
self._write(obj)
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 214,
in _write
self._write(item)
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 214,
in _write
self._write(item)
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 214,
in _write
self._write(item)
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 214,
in _write
self._write(item)
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 205,
in _write
self._write(obj[k])
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 205,
in _write
self._write(obj[k])
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 214,
in _write
self._write(item)
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 232,
in _write
self._append(c) # no escaping needed for this piece
  File /usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/bitfrost/util/json.py, line 191,
in lambda
self._append = lambda s: f.write(s)
IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device
Trying rsync update from rsync://updates.laptop.org/build-10.1.3_xo1-860
 - Fetching contents.
No more update methods to try.
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Re: Online Update To 10.1.3-XO1 Failing

2011-01-21 Thread Tiago Marques
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:

 On 21 January 2011 13:15, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  Am I missing something? It seems UBIFS doesn't go well with online
 updates.

 You forgot to say which version you are upgrading from.


Strange, I think I have a stable version on this OLPC but /etc/olpc-release
is returning version 0.0.0 - guess I'll install from scratch.


 I strongly doubt you are using ubifs, since it is only used in
 development builds based on Fedora 14.


Perhaps I pulled one of those by mistake then.



  [olpc@olpc-geode ~]$ sudo olpc-update 10.1.3_xo1-860
  Downloading contents of build 10.1.3_xo1-860.
  Updating to version hash 94bd3ffd71c4ec433dca2e0e162bcf33
  Deleting old incomplete update tmp.J68VmD
  Trying irsync_pristine update from
  rsync://updates.laptop.org/build-10.1.3_xo1-860
   - Fetching contents.
   - Performing incremental rsync.
  rsync: write failed on
 
 /versions/updates/94bd3ffd71c4ec433dca2e0e162bcf33/usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages/yum/i18n.py:
  No space left on device (28)

 Looks like you're out of disk space.


That I had noticed, which was why I found it strange, since olpc-update
never returned that error to me.

Best regards,
Tiago

Daniel

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Re: F14 os4 development image released (XO-1 and XO-1.5)

2010-12-07 Thread Tiago Marques
Just installed, seems ok for such an early release. One problem has been
persisting since a few months back, which has to do with 50MB not being
enough to perform even a yum search, all on the standard repos. I get
usage near 65MB and I need to bump it up to around that so I don't get no
space left on device errors.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F14_for_XO

 New build available for testing:
 http://build.laptop.org/F14/os4/

 Changes since last build:

 Latest Fedora updates, plus 2 tickets fixed:

 #10436  switch to batti
 #10438  2.6.35 kernel: color corruption on XO-1 resume

 (batti is a battery monitor for GNOME, replacing the one we used
 before that was not a part of Fedora)

 Daniel
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Re: SD card unpartitioned space -- used for swap?

2010-12-05 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 4:41 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 11:32 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org
 wrote:
  just as well.  Our superstitions about OLPC's no-swap configuration
  may well prove to be similarly unfounded.

 Just to clarify -- side-to-side comparison in the past have shown a
 significant improvement. We did get a specially bad-behaving kernel in
 our F7 builds in that regard, but even F9 builds have shown it to be
 better.

 Note that this is not only Sugar. Wise or not, we are shipping XOs
 with Gnome. Specially with the HS model, you can fully expect people
 to want to use OO.org .


As was mentioned early in the XO-1.5 development cycle, the 1GiB of RAM
mitigates most of the problems. I have not encountered situations where the
system becomes irresponsive due to lack of memory, compared to what happened
in the XO-1. For the XO-1 I go as far as saying that it isn't usable with
more than two apps open, especially if it's a browser. Swap memory makes a
huge difference and, though slow, the laptop can perform most tasks one
requires it to - except for stuff that wants to actually allocate more than
200MiB for working data.

Best regards,
Tiago

cheers,



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: SD card unpartitioned space -- used for swap?

2010-12-05 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:

  Downsides
  - Increased SD card wear

 For about two years now, I've been defining a swap partition on the
 (external) permanent SD card I use with my XO-1 systems.  So far, I
 have never experienced any problems with that setup.


My experience thus far, single partition with ext2(noatime), swap as a file
in /swap.img, 384MiB.


 The advantage is to relieve memory pressure.  In particular, I am a
 heavy user of 'yum' - and that swap space (together with judicious
 specification for /var/cache/yum) allows me to run HUGE yum installs.


Indeed. Or general website viewing. Web browsers don't seem particularly
memory efficient these days.

Tiago


 mikus


 p.s.  By the way, I also had a swap partition on the (external)
 permanent SD card I had in an XO-1.5.  But unless running an
 unreasonable number of Activities simultaneously, I do not recall ever
 seeing that swap partition on the XO-1.5 being used -- apparently the
 larger RAM size on the XO-1.5 rarely gets into memory pressure.

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Re: SD card unpartitioned space -- used for swap?

2010-12-05 Thread Tiago Marques
BTW, the card is a Sandisk 4GiB Class 2, bought used on eBay. First one
bought for installing OSs, going stronger where others have failed with a
lot less use. Approximately 1GiB is free, not touching the NAND for anything
other than testing new XO OS releases.

Tiago

On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 12:25 AM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 7:21 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:

  Downsides
  - Increased SD card wear

 For about two years now, I've been defining a swap partition on the
 (external) permanent SD card I use with my XO-1 systems.  So far, I
 have never experienced any problems with that setup.


 My experience thus far, single partition with ext2(noatime), swap as a file
 in /swap.img, 384MiB.


 The advantage is to relieve memory pressure.  In particular, I am a
 heavy user of 'yum' - and that swap space (together with judicious
 specification for /var/cache/yum) allows me to run HUGE yum installs.


 Indeed. Or general website viewing. Web browsers don't seem particularly
 memory efficient these days.

 Tiago


 mikus


 p.s.  By the way, I also had a swap partition on the (external)
 permanent SD card I had in an XO-1.5.  But unless running an
 unreasonable number of Activities simultaneously, I do not recall ever
 seeing that swap partition on the XO-1.5 being used -- apparently the
 larger RAM size on the XO-1.5 rarely gets into memory pressure.

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Re: SD card unpartitioned space -- used for swap?

2010-12-05 Thread Tiago Marques
That's strange, wherever I have used flash memory to serve as boot drive,
the kernel/userspace waits for the writes to be complete before powering
down. I have not experienced corruption that looks anything similar to
what's described. So the software is thinking it has written it but it
doesn't?

Best regards,
Tiago

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 2:53 PM, Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.orgwrote:

 On 11/22/2010 07:20 PM, James Cameron wrote:

  Also, I'm not familiar with evil keepout time.  But note that on the
  new XO-1 F14 build, the shutdown time-lapse is only a few seconds.
  If actually 30s are needed to keep the SD circuitry happy, perhaps a
  delay (and a Release Notes explanation) should be added to the OLPC.
 
  I suspect the evil keepout time is the time after the last write
  request to the card and the removal of power.  It is why current XO-1.5
  EC firmware blinks the power LED for some seconds on power off.

 Its 3 seconds and only active for internal uSD.  You need really new 1.5
 firmware to have this delay.

 If you are running on external SD there is at least one 8 gig card with
 a flash controller (which could be in multiple different cards) that
 will become completely unusable if you power it off less than 2 seconds
 or so from the last write.  I recommend you do hard power offs little as
 possible.  Suspend/resume also should be disabled.

 --
 Richard A. Smith  rich...@laptop.org
 One Laptop per Child
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Re: SD card unpartitioned space -- used for swap?

2010-12-05 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 1:04 AM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 Hi,

That's strange, wherever I have used flash memory to serve as
boot drive, the kernel/userspace waits for the writes to be
complete before powering down. I have not experienced corruption
that looks anything similar to what's described. So the software
is thinking it has written it but it doesn't?

 There are two separate transitions, and you're each talking about
 a different one:

 (1) From kernel to flash device:
  * This can be waited on as you describe, because the kernel knows
when its dirty page cache has been written to the device.  sync
and reboot/shutdown all wait on this completing before they return.

 (2) From flash device to flash media:
  * The flash device has internal memory that it uses to stage blocks
to be written to the media.  The kernel can't know when this is
happening, because it happens internally to the flash device.

 We've found instances of flash devices where you need to continue
 providing power for two seconds after (1) has finished, such that
 (2) can finish before power is lost, else corruption happens.
 (Requiring this is in violation of the relevant specs, but that's

hardware for you.)


That behavior is what I would assume as the normal one but well, if it's
that way. Seems like somebody forgot to add some type of capacitor in their
SD card design. Perhaps this is an issue tied to micro SD cards, which have
less room for somewhat redundant data structures in the application of cell
phones and cameras.

Tiago


 - Chris.
 --
 Chris Ball   c...@laptop.org
 One Laptop Per Child

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Re: An XO on its last legs?

2010-12-04 Thread Tiago Marques
On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 2:11 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 The symptoms you describe (power light and Mic light coming on, but nothing
 else)
 indicates that the main processor isn't executing any code.   This is
 usually caused
 by one of two problems: corruption of the SPI ROM containing the boot
 loader or
 a cracked solder ball underneath the processor.   I doubt it is the former,
 as once it
 died it wouldn't restart.

 You can test for the latter by pressing down on the processor (biggest chip
 on the
 board) and seeing if it improves the situation.   Unfortunately, it is
 impossible to fix
 this in the field.   It requires reflowing the board again.


Not exactly, although the fix isn't 100%, he can try to heat it up with a
heat gun at some electronics repair shop. It worked with Xbox 360s, which
are plagged by the same issue, even though it sometimes isn't a definitive
fix.
Then again, can you even successively reflow it with the epoxy around the
chip?
Out of curiosity though, is this a problem that plagues more XOs or has the
solder's chemistry been worked out?

Best regards,
Tiago


 Bummer,
 wad

 On Nov 29, 2010, at 9:00 PM, Snow Wolf wrote:

  So of late, I've been wondering if my XO is approaching total failure.
 Help me judge, based on these symptoms::
  When opening and booting the laptop, the power light and light in top
 left will come on... nothing else. Child boy needed to get it working.
  Occasionally opening the lid  the same state as before will occur.
  Recentaly, a black screen freeze occured during startup.
 
  So I'm fairly sure it's an origianl XO-1, but ive upraded it to 802 along
 the way. What must I do to get it working well again?
 
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Re: Modifying 353 (xo-1) to apply the dev.laptop.org/ticket/10195 fix

2010-12-04 Thread Tiago Marques
I've constantly experienced the same issues. The XO-1 can't sometimes
connect to my AP and the signal is always very weak compared to all other
wireless devices I have - the XO 1.5 has a much stronger signal, for
instance.
It has always been this way and I have it almost for two years now,
independent if I have Gentoo or XO OS installed, for all versions.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:42 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:

  Bernie - you closed this ticket with I disabled the mesh on boot and no
  further incidents of this type were reported.
 
  Please - how did you disable the mesh on boot ?
  Like so:
 
   # enable debug for pgf
   # also disable mesh to see if this makes the bug go away
   cat $INSTALL_ROOT/etc/rc.local __EOF__
   echo 0x26187  /sys/module/libertas/parameters/libertas_debug
   echo 0/sys/class/net/eth0/lbs_mesh
   __EOF__

 I was troubleshooting a situation where at least two XO-1 systems would
 only rarely associate with an AP (and often had no 'eth0').  Despite
 trying everything under the sun, I could never determine the cause.

 From my experimenting, whether I had mesh enabled or not did not make a
 difference in this.  I have since reflashed those systems with newer
 builds - and am no longer seeing the missing 'eth0' situation.
 Perhaps the software in the problem systems had gotten corrupted.


 What I __still__ cannot depend upon is for every XO-1 to reliably
 associate with an AP.  A symptom that I frequently observe is that
 'iwlist eth0 scan' (as root) does not show the radio signals that other
 XO_1s do show.  [Wireless debug trace shows the scan is being invoked.]
 Looks to me that I will be spending lots more time pursuing how come.


 Bernie, thank you for your help,   mikus

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Re: Killing activities when memory gets short

2010-08-26 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 8:33 PM, Marco Pesenti Gritti ma...@marcopg.orgwrote:

 On 8 Aug 2010, at 18:40, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:
  The idea of killing activities with the content closed seems ok but it
 would probably be a good idea to have a way to opt out of it for some apps.
 I'm thinking a PDF that may be left open on purpose to serve as reference to
 something, a browser window, etc.

 An opt out could be easily abused... In the PDF case the activity could be
 closed and reopened under the hoods, without the user even noticing (well,
 startup time aside).

  Are you then proposing to use the LRU policy to do the killing? I'm
 thinking that a popup with a cancel tied to a timeout may be a good idea.
 Once it is not allowed to be killed, it should not try to again for the
 session, or at least for a very large increase in query time.

 Imo a confirmation popup would become annoying very quickly. Also if the
 user refuses, the kernel will have soon to kill an activity, which is worst.


Good point. In my mind this was an opt out for a process LRU that wouldn't
be filling up the whole memory needed by another one, in that case the
confirmation would become a notification.
I think it's better to notify than to keep the user clueless, thinking that
the device is somehow broken.



  Apps like instant messaging(though I don't recall one for Sugar), would
 definitely need a definitive opt out, no?

 Yeah, that's where things get tricky :/ Same issue with a background music
 player for example. Ideally we would just keep the connection open somehow
 and close the whole UI, but that's going to get complex.

 As long as this causes just minor annoyances to the user (like being
 disconnected or music stopping), I think it's probably something we don't
 need to solve in the first iteration.


Indeed. But this behaviour has to be properly explained to the user somehow,
if previous state restore isn't possible at all.

Best regards,
Tiago



 Marco
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Re: SD/MMC cards, a year later

2010-08-20 Thread Tiago Marques
Have a look at the previous link I sent then. Counterfeiting may be your
problem.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 2:03 AM, Ed McNierney e...@laptop.org wrote:


 
  Directly from the OEM or on the open market?
 

 Both.

- Ed


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Re: SD/MMC cards, a year later

2010-08-19 Thread Tiago Marques
Thanks for the update. Can you disclose the brands of the mentioned SD
cards?
It's always useful to know what not to buy.

I'm assuming none of these cards don't have static wear levelling. Did any
manufacturer provide you details on that or are they only using spare blocks
for repairability?

Any plans for the use of NILFS? It seems to help with wear levelling,
although it is not a completely circular log FS.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 4:24 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 Our experiment with SD/MMC cards as main storage continues.

 One frustration has been the rate of change in the SD industry.
 The dominant model from a vendor in a particular size and speed
 may only be in production for three or four months before being
 superseded.  Vendors are reluctant to properly inform Quanta of
 changes which might require retesting.   The result is that SD card
 certification is an ongoing process.

 A disturbing trend has been the increased error rates and
 decreased device lifetimes brought by higher density devices.
 And these are occuring throughout the industry.

 A batch of 2GB class 2 microSD cards obtained a year ago from a
 particular manufacturer averaged around 10 TB written before
 failing, with few transient errors.   A batch of 2GB class 2 microSD
 cards from the same manufacturer today failed with more than
 half corrupting their FS after only 1TB of writes.  The devices
 wear out around 2-4 TB of writes.   I'm seeing the same error
 distribution on 4GB parts from the same manufacturer, and
 similar problems of early filesystem corruption from other
 manufacturers as well.

 Of the last five SD card models we've tested, we rejected three
 of them for failing to survive 3 TB of writes.   In some size/speeds,
 we only have a single vendor/model qualified --- always on the
 brink of being end-of-life'd.

 While the Armada 610 SOC being used in XO-1.75 does have a
 raw NAND Flash interface, it's design faces the same problem
 as the CaFE in XO-1 --- it will only be useful for today's (yesterday's)
 NAND Flash parts.  Each new generation tends to introduce higher
 demands on the (hardware implemented) error correction algorithms.
 Nonetheless, we are going to try testing it with UbiFS and
 considering whether any durability improvement justify the
 increased price (now up to 2x) and built-in obsolescence of
 using raw NAND chips.

 On the positive side, the SD interfaces on XO-1.5 have been
 exercised extensively and we have eliminated the bit errors that
 plagued some XO-1 motherboards.

 Overall, the industry is even more behind microSD than a year
 ago, although eMMC (roughly the same protocol and all the same
 automated wear levelling issues but 8 bits wide with multichip modules
 soldered directly to the PCB) is gaining acceptance in the cell-phone
 industry.

 Cheers,
 wad

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Re: SD/MMC cards, a year later

2010-08-19 Thread Tiago Marques
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Ed McNierney e...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Aug 19, 2010, at 4:21 PM, John Watlington wrote:

  Thanks for the update. Can you disclose the brands of the mentioned SD
 cards?
  It's always useful to know what not to buy.
 
  I probably could, but variations between models from one manufacturer
  may be greater than variations between manufacturer.

 That variation works both ways.  You will find identically-branded SD cards
 that are different internally, and you will find SD cards that are identical
 internally but branded differently.

- Ed


Directly from the OEM or on the open market?

http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?page_id=1022

Best regards,
Tiago
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Re: SD/MMC cards, a year later

2010-08-19 Thread Tiago Marques
On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 9:21 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 On Aug 19, 2010, at 1:59 PM, Tiago Marques wrote:

  Thanks for the update. Can you disclose the brands of the mentioned SD
 cards?
  It's always useful to know what not to buy.

 I probably could, but variations between models from one manufacturer
 may be greater than variations between manufacturer.   I suggest that
 anyone thinking of purchasing a number of SD cards test the ones they
 are considering buying, instead of relying on outdated test data.


Ok, thanks. I'm half way down that path already, wanted to save some work.


   I'm assuming none of these cards don't have static wear levelling. Did
 any manufacturer provide you details on that or are they only using spare
 blocks for repairability?

 They all have dynamic wear levelling, where blocks are actively moved
 in order to balance the wear across all block in the device.


Nice to know. Unfortunately I've come across some flash devices that seem to
have none.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Dynamic wear levelling is the one done on the free
blocks and not the ones that have data, right?

From your tests, 10TB on 2GB cards would imply 5000 write/erase cycles with
static wear levelling, which is pretty good. An SSD I bought a while ago
also had 5000 W/E cycles and that number seems to be going down as they
migrate to smaller process nodes. Perhaps that's the case?
3 bits per cell MLC also doesn't spell good things IMHO, especially as
they're only reducing the die size in 20% for the same capacity(as per
Intel/Micron 25nm 3bpc flash).



  Any plans for the use of NILFS? It seems to help with wear levelling,
 although
  it is not a completely circular log FS.

 We are starting to look at it.
 Does anybody have experience shipping it ?
 even using it ?


I've stuck with EXT2 with noatime for now but was looking into it. The only
thing I didn't like was it being not fully circular and being arranged in
blocks. Other than that it seems fine and should help a lot with the random
write latencies, as you may know, which was my motivation for looking into
it.

Best regards,
Tiago




 Cheers,
 wad


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Re: Killing activities when memory gets short

2010-08-08 Thread Tiago Marques

  Just killing a random activity is a terrible idea becayse you don't want
  your product behaving like it's defective; the pop up idea is way more
  acceptable(and a lot better than having the system randomly behaving like
  it's crashed). Either way, this is the extremely important use of swap
  memory that doesn't exist here. I understand your engineering constraints
 on
  the hardware but randomly killing activities is poised to confuse users
 and
  cause people considering the hardware for deployment to think that you're
  selling them something defective/baddly manufactured.

 I tihnk I have been sloppy with my words, so let me clarify two things:


I read through the thread but may also missed something.


 - killing processes should be done only to avoid OOM (because
 currently the kernel kills the wrong thing most of the time).


True.



 - before the need for killing arises, we can do a myriad of things to
 prepare the user for what is coming and maybe to avoid it (some good
 ideas have already been posted in this thread).


The idea of killing activities with the content closed seems ok but it would
probably be a good idea to have a way to opt out of it for some apps. I'm
thinking a PDF that may be left open on purpose to serve as reference to
something, a browser window, etc. Are you then proposing to use the LRU
policy to do the killing? I'm thinking that a popup with a cancel tied to a
timeout may be a good idea. Once it is not allowed to be killed, it should
not try to again for the session, or at least for a very large increase in
query time.
Apps like instant messaging(though I don't recall one for Sugar), would
definitely need a definitive opt out, no?

Best regards,
Tiago




 Regards,

 Tomeu

  Best regards,
  Tiago Marques
 
 
  This, however, makes non-sugarized activities more dangerous to deal
  with. One more reason to demand proper sugarization.
 
  --
// Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
   \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/
 
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Re: Killing activities when memory gets short

2010-08-07 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote:

 El Sat, 07-08-2010 a las 18:14 +0200, Tomeu Vizoso escribió:

  So we would have a periodic wakeup? The test would be the amount of
  free memory plus buffers and caches?

 A polled design is clearly inferior to a proper notification system, but
 it has the advantage of being simple and not requiring a particular
 kernel. Once this is done, switching to a better solution should not
 require extensive changes to the UI code.

 BTW, looking at top, it seems that Sugar and other processes wake up
 quite frequently when the system is supposed to be completely idle. It
 may be background checks for updates, NetworkManager updates or the
 presence service. Plus, there are a bunch of cron jobs that run in the
 background, inclding the ds-backup and olpc-update.

 All these things drain battery power and cause the UI to become jerky,
 so we should try to limit them if possible.


   Or, maybe, we could make this a manual process: pop up a notification
   when memory is short and ask which activity should be closed.
 
  I would just close one of the background activities, the LRU or the
 biggest one.

 +1.


Just killing a random activity is a terrible idea becayse you don't want
your product behaving like it's defective; the pop up idea is way more
acceptable(and a lot better than having the system randomly behaving like
it's crashed). Either way, this is the extremely important use of swap
memory that doesn't exist here. I understand your engineering constraints on
the hardware but randomly killing activities is poised to confuse users and
cause people considering the hardware for deployment to think that you're
selling them something defective/baddly manufactured.

Best regards,
Tiago Marques



 This, however, makes non-sugarized activities more dangerous to deal
 with. One more reason to demand proper sugarization.

 --
   // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/
  \X/  Sugar Labs   - http://sugarlabs.org/

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Re: behaviour of F-keys on XO HS

2010-07-16 Thread Tiago Marques
On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 11:50 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:

 Hi,

 On the XO HS (highschool edition, the one with a more normal
 keyboard) we're facing some questions about how the F keys should
 function, under sugar and GNOME.

 The technicalities are in http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10213 and here
 is a picture of the keyboard:
 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Spanish_Non-membrane_Keyboard


What's up with the layout? The lowercase letters are gone and that was a
fine addition.


 Under non-sugar environments (e.g. GNOME), myself and Paul are in
 agreement that in order to change brightness and volume, you should
 press e.g. Fn+F9 (to decrease brightness).

 This matches behaviour of normal laptops, including the Dell that
 I'm writing on. Linux already has mechanisms (once through hal, now
 through udev) so that when I press Fn+F8 on my Dell, X receives the
 volume down key press (instead of the Fn+F8 key press), matching
 what is printed on the keyboard.


 We want all of the unmodified F-keys to send the normal F-key events
 (we don't want to map them especially). This is for maximum
 compatibility with non-sugar environments.


 For Sugar we have an open question.
 The F1-F4 keys have the zoom levels printed on them, and pressing the
 keys unmodified will cause the zoom levels to change (because this is
 how Sugar is already coded, it responds to the literal F1 keypress).

 The other keys are:
  - F5: search/journal
  - F6: frame
  - F9: brightness down
  - F10: brightness up
  - F11: volume down
  - F12: volume up

 For these other keys, when using Sugar, should the user have to press
 the Fn modifier while pressing the key in order to reach the named
 function?

 The advantage of not having to press Fn (i.e. the keys would work
 unmodified) is that sugar works the way it always has on XO (we retain
 consistency with XO-1).
 As for the other option, the advantage of requiring Fn is that we gain
 consistency between Sugar and GNOME, and between the XO HS and
 normal laptops (where Fn *is* necessary to reach those alternate
 functions). (but we do end up with some confusion with the zoom level
 keys,which will continue to work unmodified)


Since on the XO-1  1.5 the keys don't have the F numbering print, it seems
to me a good idea to have *all* OLPCs running the modified keys by default,
even in GNOME, and having Fn change it to F keys. This bring some
advantages:

   - XO 1.5 currently has no way of accessing F keys that are mapped for
   functions(at least that I know of), which is a problem.
   - XO 1 would now be able to run other desktop environments and have the F
   keys available
   - Consistent by design - although it has become the norm for the Fn key
   to modify to non F keys, it makes more sense to have to press the Fn key to
   get an F key output, just like we press shift to get the alternate keycode.
   - Consistent with Apple and newer laptops

Although this may break usability at first, new users may quickly realize
that while the zoom keys don't do anything, the volume and brightness ones
do and that may suggest them to press Fn to check the F key functions on the
zoom keys when the F1 keycode will expose the GNOME help, suggesting a
normal behavior.

If we decide to make the keys available unmodified in Sugar we would
 have to change sugar (worldwide, not interested in downstream forked
 patches) so that F5 on any system opens the journal, F6 on any system
 opens the frame, etc. How would people feel about that?


Ideally if you could check the keyboard at boot and make the changes, it
would be better. Can you?

Best regards,
Tiago



 cheers,
 Daniel
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Re: os206 - slow ethernet

2010-07-16 Thread Tiago Marques
Perhaps some kernel update caused problems with the ethernet driver?

On Thu, Jul 15, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:

 Disclaimer:  I am not asking for help;  I am sharing my experiences.

 I notice that with os206, ethernet data transfers into the XO-1.5 are
 running at 2/3 the speed of ethernet data transfers into XO-1 systems.
 I did not notice with which XO-1.5 build this slow ethernet problem
 started - but I believe that with os196 and previous, ethernet data
 transfers into the XO-1.5 ran at the same rate as ethernet data
 transfers into XO-1 systems.  [I'm assuming that the hardware did not
 recently develop weak transistors.]

 mikus


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Re: GNOME/nautilus: set default to browser mode

2010-07-09 Thread Tiago Marques
For me the one window per directory is pretty annoying, so I would say to go
for that browser mode.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 5:24 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:

 Hi,

 In Peru, they are customizing their GNOME build in that they are
 setting Nautilus to browser mode by default.
 The existing default in our version of GNOME is to open one window per
 directory that is opened, browser mode looks more like:
 http://richbradshaw.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/nautilus.png

 Does anyone have an opinion whether we should make this change
 worldwide? Or make it an option in the build configuration for
 olpc-os-builder users? (in the 2nd case, which would be the default?)

 In all cases, the user can change preferences later.

 Daniel
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XO 1.5 B2 Died On Me

2010-07-07 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

Renaming this thread to see if I can get the message through. Message below.

Best regards,
Tiago

-- Forwarded message --
From: Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 4- Hardware
issue?
To: Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com
Cc: Devel devel@lists.laptop.org


Hi all,

My XO-1.5 B2 just entered this state last night. The only difference is that
I was using it, writing e-mail, and then it rebooted itself. After that it
would no longer boot so I tried to run memtest. It crashed on the second
test with a random character on the right side of the screen and then it
would no longer boot, the screen just flashes.

Should I disassemble it to inspect it? I have some experience repairing
motherboards with cold solders, bad caps, etc.

Best regards,
Tiago


On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Yioryos Asprobounitis
mavrot...@yahoo.comwrote:

 I doubt is related to the build but just in case...
 I clean installed os205 on an a working XO-1.5 (#SHC00500908).
 On first boot it froze about 4sec into the boot process, I think at
 loading mass storage devices or something relevant.
 On hard reboot (with power button for 5sec) the backlight blinks for a
 split second but the screen stays dark. The power light comes on but not the
 processor and wifi lights. No chime either.
 Reseting the EC by battery removal, get the familiar blinks but no change
 in behavior.
 Is the XO-1.5 bricked?
 Is there anything that I can do (replace micro-sd? make sure screen ribbon
 is fine? other?).
 Any ideas
 Thx




 --- On Wed, 6/30/10, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

  From: Chris Ball c...@laptop.org
  Subject: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 4
  To: Fedora OLPC fedora-olpc-l...@redhat.com
  Cc: test...@lists.laptop.org, Devel devel@lists.laptop.org
  Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 7:28 PM
  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
  http://build.laptop.org/10.1.1/os205
 
  Compressed image size: 705.45mb (+0.16mb since build 204)
 
  This is the fourth RC build for the 10.1.1 release.
  Changes:
 
  * #10186:  Fix permissions problem on /home/olpc
  * #10175:  Fix Record-81 generates audio/ogg file
  with silent start
  * #10183:  Fix Record-82 crashes while saving a
  just-recorded audio clip
  * #9112:   Fix Enable Browse to embed PDF
  files in itself regression
 
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Re: Announce: OLPC software strategy.

2010-07-07 Thread Tiago Marques
Massive kudos for everything :)
Keep up the great work and keep us up to date on those ARM developments.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:01 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 Hi,

 Now that the 10.1.1 release for XO-1.5 is out, it's a good time to
 talk about OLPC's software strategy for the future.  We've got a few
 announcements to make:

 XO-1:
 =

 OLPC wasn't planning to make a Fedora 11 release of the XO-1 OS, but
 a group of volunteers including Steven Parrish, Bernie Innocenti,
 Paraguay Educa and Daniel Drake stepped up and produced Fedora 11 XO-1
 builds that follow the OLPC 10.1.1 work.  I'm happy to announce that
 we're planning on releasing an OLPC-signed version of that work, and
 that this release will happen alongside the next XO-1.5 point release
 in the coming weeks.  So, OLPC release 10.1.2 will be available for
 both XO-1 and XO-1.5 at the same time, and will contain Sugar 0.84,
 GNOME 2.26 and Fedora 11.  We think that offering this fully
 interoperable software stack between XO-1 and XO-1.5 laptops will
 greatly aid deployments, and we're very thankful to everyone who has
 enabled us to be able to turn this XO-1 work into a supported release!

 To prepare for this XO-1 release, we've started working on fixing
 some of the remaining bugs in the community F11/XO-1 builds.  Paul Fox
 recently solved a problem with suspend/resume and wifi in the F11/XO-1
 kernel, which was the largest blocker for a supported release.  We'll
 continue to work on the remaining bugs, particularly the ones that
 OLPC is uniquely positioned to help with.

 The first development builds for this release will be published later
 this week.

 XO-1.5:
 ===

 We'll be continuing to work on XO-1.5 improvements, incorporating
 fixes to the Known Problems section of the 10.1.1 release notes¹
 into the 10.1.2 release.

 XO-1.75 and beyond:
 ===

 XO-1.75 software development is underway.  Today we're announcing
 that we're planning on using Fedora as the base distribution for the
 XO-1.75.  This wasn't an obvious decision -- ARM is not a release
 architecture in Fedora, and so we're committing to help out with that
 port.  Our reasons for choosing Fedora even though ARM work is needed
 were that we don't want to force our deployments to learn a new
 distribution and re-write any customizations they've written, we want
 to reuse the packaging work that's already been done in Fedora for
 OLPC and Sugar packages, and we want to continue our collaboration
 with the Fedora community who we're getting to know and work with
 well.

 We've started to help with Fedora ARM by adding five new build
 machines (lent to OLPC by Marvell; thanks!) to the Fedora ARM koji
 build farm, and we have Fedora 12 and Sugar 0.86 running on early 1.75
 development boards.  We'd prefer to use Fedora 13 for the XO-1.75, but
 it hasn't been built for ARM yet -- if anyone's interested in helping
 out with this or other Fedora ARM work, please check out the Fedora
 ARM page on the Fedora Wiki².  We're also interested in hiring ARM and
 Fedora developers to help with this; if you're interested in learning
 more, please send an e-mail to jobs-engineer...@laptop.org.

 We'll also be continuing to use Open Firmware on the XO-1.75, and
 Mitch Bradley has an ARM port of OFW running on our development boards
 already.

 EC-1.75 open source EC code:
 

 OLPC is proud to announce that the XO-1.75 embedded controller will
 have an open codebase (with a small exception, see below).  After much
 behind-the-scenes effort, EnE has agreed to provide us with a public
 version of the KB3930 datasheet and is allowing our new code to be
 made public.

 The code is not available yet due to a few chunks of proprietary code
 that need to be purged and some other reformatting.  A much more
 detailed announcement will be provided once the new code is pushed to
 a public repository.  The code will be licensed under the GPL with a
 special exception for OLPC use.

 The exception is because EnE has not released the low-level details on
 the PS/2 interface in the KB3930, so there will be some code that is
 not available -- relative to the codebase this is a very small amount
 of code.  The GPL licensing exception will allow for linking against
 this closed code.  We're going to investigate ways to move away from
 this code in the future.  (As far as we're aware, this will make the
 XO-1.75 the first laptop with open embedded controller code!)

 Multi-touch Sugar:
 ==

 We've begun working on modifications to Sugar to enable touchscreen
 and multitouch use (the XO-1.75 will have a touchscreen, as will
 future OLPC tablets based on its design), and we'll continue to do so.
 The first outcome from this work is Sayamindu Dasgupta's port of the
 Meego Virtual Keyboard³ to Sugar -- you can see a screencast of it in
 action here⁴.

 It's an exciting time for software development at OLPC.  Many 

Re: Uruguay violates GPL by deleting root on OLPCs

2010-07-07 Thread Tiago Marques
I agree with you completely.
This is bad, it's just not complete TiVoization:

If you insert a USB flash drive or SD card, the boot firmware will only
boot from it if the files are tested and cryptographically signed by OLPC.

What stops one person of then adding root access again?
This will hardly deter theft.

Best regards,
Tiago


On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 8:42 PM, John Gilmore g...@toad.com wrote:

  Please explain your statement that lack of root violates GPLv3.
 Couldn't
  the owner of the system insert a SD card with a developer's version of
  Linux, mount the internal drive of the XO, and tinker with the installed
  packages as root from the external OS?  Does GPLv3 expressly mention root
  access?

 The laptops refuse to boot a developer's version of Linux.  They
 require a signed kernel and initrd.  Some people call this DRM;
 it's definitely TiVoization (check Wikipedia if you don't know the term).

  I think Ubuntu disables root logins, but allows sudo access for root
  permissions.   Is that a violation of the GPLv3?

 As Eben explained, the GPLv3 doesn't require root, it just requires
 that you be provided all the info you need to install modified
 software of your choice, in the environment in which the binaries were
 shipped.  su is fine, if documented, and it is.

John

 PS: Get a clue, folks.  This is bigger than OLPC.  You've been spoiled
 by 50+ years of general purpose computers without cryptographic access
 controls.  Four big oligopolies (Intel, Microsoft, Hollywood, and NSA)
 are all trying to wipe out the general purpose computer and replace it
 with one that only allows running approved software.  They've
 jiggered the law to make it illegal to circumvent such controls,
 even if you own the hardware and all the software is free.  All the
 Apple products except the Macintosh are already this way (and they
 produce more revenue for Apple than the Macintosh), and their
 customers have barely noticed or complained.  It gets harder in every
 generation of iPhones to jailbreak them, even if it was legal; they're
 closing in on shipping products that close *all* the exploitable
 holes, leaving the buyer totally at Apple's mercy.  If even the free
 software community shuts up and demurs when one of our flagship
 projects locks down the hardware to disallow freedom, why should *any*
 evil empire delay going right ahead and screwing every consumer, every
 curious questioner, and every tinkerer?
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Re: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 4- Hardware issue?

2010-07-05 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

My XO-1.5 B2 just entered this state last night. The only difference is that
I was using it, writing e-mail, and then it rebooted itself. After that it
would no longer boot so I tried to run memtest. It crashed on the second
test with a random character on the right side of the screen and then it
would no longer boot, the screen just flashes.

Should I disassemble it to inspect it? I have some experience repairing
motherboards with cold solders, bad caps, etc.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 5:03 PM, Yioryos Asprobounitis
mavrot...@yahoo.comwrote:

 I doubt is related to the build but just in case...
 I clean installed os205 on an a working XO-1.5 (#SHC00500908).
 On first boot it froze about 4sec into the boot process, I think at
 loading mass storage devices or something relevant.
 On hard reboot (with power button for 5sec) the backlight blinks for a
 split second but the screen stays dark. The power light comes on but not the
 processor and wifi lights. No chime either.
 Reseting the EC by battery removal, get the familiar blinks but no change
 in behavior.
 Is the XO-1.5 bricked?
 Is there anything that I can do (replace micro-sd? make sure screen ribbon
 is fine? other?).
 Any ideas
 Thx




 --- On Wed, 6/30/10, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

  From: Chris Ball c...@laptop.org
  Subject: F11-for-XO1.5 Release 10.1.1 Release Candidate 4
  To: Fedora OLPC fedora-olpc-l...@redhat.com
  Cc: test...@lists.laptop.org, Devel devel@lists.laptop.org
  Date: Wednesday, June 30, 2010, 7:28 PM
  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
  http://build.laptop.org/10.1.1/os205
 
  Compressed image size: 705.45mb (+0.16mb since build 204)
 
  This is the fourth RC build for the 10.1.1 release.
  Changes:
 
  * #10186:  Fix permissions problem on /home/olpc
  * #10175:  Fix Record-81 generates audio/ogg file
  with silent start
  * #10183:  Fix Record-82 crashes while saving a
  just-recorded audio clip
  * #9112:   Fix Enable Browse to embed PDF
  files in itself regression
 
  ___
  olpc mailing list
  o...@lists.fedoraproject.org
  https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/olpc
 




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Fwd: XO-1.5 HS version announced

2010-06-17 Thread Tiago Marques
-- Forwarded message --
From: Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com
Date: Thu, Jun 17, 2010 at 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: XO-1.5 HS version announced
To: Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com


I feel it may be a tough sell against classmates, since the XO has so many
times been hammered for being different, even though not in a baed way. I
hope you hear good things from deployments.

One thing I might add is that everyone that worked on the membrane keyboard
should be congratulated - KUDOS!
To me, it is by far much better than most similarly sized netbooks
keyboards. Have tried a similar membrane one for desktops and it is so
inferior that it's unusable. I guess the letter spacing is helping it a lot
where as in netbooks it's frequent to press two keys at the same time by
mistake - so I don't really get why people would even bother with a normal
one, especially without a form factor increase.

Best regards,
Tiago



On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 11:16 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  From previous e-mails I know there were some challenges fitting the
 default
  layout but I'm still kind of surprised that it's become final.
  Best of luck with deployments and do give some feedback from deployments
 if
  possible. I personally wouldn't look twice at a laptop with a keyboard
 like
  that but I'm curious to see the real world feedback.
  Best regards,
  Tiago

 For what it is worth, feedback was solicited (and received) from
 deployments. But as you suggest, the only way to really know is to get
 the machines into the field.

 -walter

  On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:
 
  tiago wrote:
Hi,
   
Will you be keeping that arrow key arrangement or is it still a
  prototype?
 
  that's the final arrangement.
 
  paul
 
   
Best regards,
Tiago
   
   
On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 7:41 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org
  wrote:
   

 As usual, by a random news outlet:
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10309116.stm

 These laptops are the XO-1.5 motherboard, but with a non-membrane
 keyboard.  Thanks to Walter Bender for the layout, visible at:
 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Spanish_Non-membrane_Keyboard

 The exciting news, for those who have been working with the
 traditional XO, is that we've redesigned the lower half to make
 the keyboard easy to remove for repair.   We will phase this in
 across all XO laptops as tooling allows.

 The color scheme of the HS laptops will be dark/light blue.

 Cheers,
 wad
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part 2 text/plain 129
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  =-
   paul fox, p...@laptop.org
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 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: XO-1.5 HS version announced

2010-06-15 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi,

Will you be keeping that arrow key arrangement or is it still a prototype?

Best regards,
Tiago


On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 7:41 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 As usual, by a random news outlet:
 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10309116.stm

 These laptops are the XO-1.5 motherboard, but with a non-membrane
 keyboard.  Thanks to Walter Bender for the layout, visible at:
 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Spanish_Non-membrane_Keyboard

 The exciting news, for those who have been working with the
 traditional XO, is that we've redesigned the lower half to make
 the keyboard easy to remove for repair.   We will phase this in
 across all XO laptops as tooling allows.

 The color scheme of the HS laptops will be dark/light blue.

 Cheers,
 wad
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Re: XO-1.5 HS version announced

2010-06-15 Thread Tiago Marques
From previous e-mails I know there were some challenges fitting the default
layout but I'm still kind of surprised that it's become final.
Best of luck with deployments and do give some feedback from deployments if
possible. I personally wouldn't look twice at a laptop with a keyboard like
that but I'm curious to see the real world feedback.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 3:29 PM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 tiago wrote:
   Hi,
  
   Will you be keeping that arrow key arrangement or is it still a
 prototype?

 that's the final arrangement.

 paul

  
   Best regards,
   Tiago
  
  
   On Tue, Jun 15, 2010 at 7:41 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org
 wrote:
  
   
As usual, by a random news outlet:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/10309116.stm
   
These laptops are the XO-1.5 motherboard, but with a non-membrane
keyboard.  Thanks to Walter Bender for the layout, visible at:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Spanish_Non-membrane_Keyboard
   
The exciting news, for those who have been working with the
traditional XO, is that we've redesigned the lower half to make
the keyboard easy to remove for repair.   We will phase this in
across all XO laptops as tooling allows.
   
The color scheme of the HS laptops will be dark/light blue.
   
Cheers,
wad
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Re: Touchscreen requirements

2010-06-09 Thread Tiago Marques
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 2:23 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 On Jun 8, 2010, at 9:03 AM, Bert Freudenberg wrote:

  Thanks for inviting discussion!
 
  I recently started testing Etoys on the Apple iPad - not the least to get
 an idea of what needs to be done to it for an XO tablet. Multi-touch is
 definitely cool, e.g. you can move around multiple Etoys objects
 simultaneously. If you are interested, I can send you a test version (pm
 me).
 
  Etoys uses the Sugar tool bar on all platforms. That works very well, the
 buttons are large enough even for my fingers.
 
  However, many other Etoys UI elements are much too small for touching.
 They're finicky even on the XO screen, but with a pointer you can at least
 hit them. That's rather hard with a finger (though the Apple touch screen is
 amazingly precise). A stylus would be preferable, but then, two-finger
 gestures are awkward with a stylus.

 We aren't planning to provide a stylus (just something for the
 kids to loose), but with some touchscreens any pointed stick
 can be used as a stylus if needed.  The projected
 capacitance touchscreens becoming popular (iPhone, iPad), on
 the other hand, don't support just any old stylus, it has to have a
 special tip.

  It would help if the tablet had a 4:3 ratio. Ideally 1200x900 pixels just
 like the XO, but at least preserve the ratio. The iPad has 1024x768 pixels
 and I made Etoys use a virtual 1200x900 screen hw-scaled to the actual
 screen size, looks very nice.

 The aspect ratio of a tablet device is the source of much debate
 these days.16:9 displays are cheaper due to volume sales, but
 many (most ?) people around OLPC prefer 4:3.


iPad is 4:3, more could follow, so I guess you're referring to PixelQi's
current customers?


   -
  1) Number of simultaneous touches:
  The number of simultaneous touches that can be tracked.
  For W7, this is two.   I believe OLPC is looking for more.
 
  IMHO multi-touch is almost essential on a tablet. Two would be enough
 IMHO, more are nice.
 
  What's W7?

 Windows 7
 I listed M$'s specifications as most vendors are trying to meet them.

  2) Behavior when number of simultaneous touches is exceeded:
  If the number of simultaneous touches is exceeded, what happens ?
  I suggest that the oldest touch be forgotten and no longer tracked,
  but have seen other behaviors as well.
 
  I'd rather keep tracking the first touches and ignore additional ones.
 Then accidental touches wouldn't interrupt the current interaction.

 Interesting point.

  3) Palm rejection:
  A number of vendors include palm rejection algorithms in their
  controllers.   I'm not sure how I feel about this --- I would prefer to
  push this information higher in the stack before discarding it...
 


I would love this on the touchpad of the 1.5 XO also. I keep having problems
of jumping cursor when I'm clicking on the pad's buttons.


   4) Sensor size:
  This applies to multizone resistive touchscreens, which may be
  thought about as a number of small touchscreens, each capable of
  a single touch.Two touches cannot be detected in any one zone,
  so this affects how close buttons which might be pressed simultaneously
  (think piano keys) can be placed to one another.   W7 specs 1 in. x1 in.
 max.
  I believe this needs to be closer to 1 cm x 1cm max.
 
  I'm imagining to use a two-finger tap to invoke meta operations, like the
 right touchpad button in Etoys on the XO. For this it would need to detect
 two kid's fingers form one ...

 Getting closer than 1 cm x 1 cm would probably rule out
 multi-zone resistive.   But a 1 cm^2 zone would probably work fine
 for two finger tap, even with kid's fingers.

  5) Resolution:
  Do we need to have a touch resolution equal to the screen size ?
 
  I have no real experience with this yet, but it needs to be high enough
 to allow drawing.

 I didn't list W7's specs for this:
 2.5mm accuracy for single touches, and 5mm accuracy for multiple touches

 An interesting effect I've noticed is that with some touchscreen, you get
 smooth
 lines when moving your finger at a normal speed, say 8 cm/s, but when you
 slow
 down (1 cm/s) the line wiggles around.

  6) Scan rate:
  The number of times a second that the touch controller
  can identify and report a touch.W7 specifies 50 Hz minimum,
  which seems a little high.
 
  7) Robustness:
  This is usually specified as the number of presses in one spot with a
 contact
  area of either 8mm (finger) or 0.8mm (stylus).   Industry standard for
 resistive
  (single or multizone) seems to be around 80K, which is too low for our
 needs
  (we try to reach a 2000 day lifetime).  But the one vendor supporting
 250K
  touches was unusable by a bare finger (needed fingernail or stylus).
 


Not that the 250K touchscreen probably needs it... but will the other one be
replaceable, if necessary?

Best regards,
Tiago

  8) UV resistance:
  Since this touchscreen is on top of a sunlight readable 

Re: Alternative option for solving Fedora i686 vs geode problems

2010-06-09 Thread Tiago Marques
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:27 AM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:

 On 7 June 2010 20:05, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:
  You are placing far more trust in a trivial rebuild than I would.  Once
  Fedora ceases testing the actual instruction streams we will be using,
  we will be providing the testing instead.  There are some interesting
  classes of bugs that this would influence.

 After years of working with Gentoo linux where practically every user
 has their own CFLAGS, I can say that problems like this are uncommon,
 at least in my experience.

 The only cases where CFLAGS differences cause miscompilations that
 I've seen have been related to using the more exotic CFLAGS, or users
 being downright stupid.

 I don't imagine we'd see any issues from changing from -march=i686 to
 -march=i586.


Gentoo does one thing Fedora won't(I think), which is to filter out harmless
CFLAGS that cause problems with some packages. You could always look into
Gentoo's ebuilds if an error like that is suspected but I agree that it will
be mostly a non-issue.
The biggest similar problem I faced was using a 3.4 compiler where a
package only compiled well to 4.1+.

Best regards,
Tiago



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Re: Alternative option for solving Fedora i686 vs geode problems

2010-06-09 Thread Tiago Marques
Ups, I missed the last part.
As you say, leaving CFLAGS intact will probably make -i586 problem free.

Tiago

On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:27 AM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:

 On 7 June 2010 20:05, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:
  You are placing far more trust in a trivial rebuild than I would.  Once
  Fedora ceases testing the actual instruction streams we will be using,
  we will be providing the testing instead.  There are some interesting
  classes of bugs that this would influence.

 After years of working with Gentoo linux where practically every user
 has their own CFLAGS, I can say that problems like this are uncommon,
 at least in my experience.

 The only cases where CFLAGS differences cause miscompilations that
 I've seen have been related to using the more exotic CFLAGS, or users
 being downright stupid.

 I don't imagine we'd see any issues from changing from -march=i686 to
 -march=i586.


 Gentoo does one thing Fedora won't(I think), which is to filter out
 harmless CFLAGS that cause problems with some packages. You could always
 look into Gentoo's ebuilds if an error like that is suspected but I agree
 that it will be mostly a non-issue.
 The biggest similar problem I faced was using a 3.4 compiler where a
 package only compiled well to 4.1+.

 Best regards,
 Tiago



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Re: Alternative option for solving Fedora i686 vs geode problems

2010-06-07 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 11:12 PM, Jon Nettleton jon.nettle...@gmail.comwrote:

  2) FESCo (Fedora Engineering Steering Committee) is dealing with the
  issue upstream [1][2] in Fedora with the view of getting it fixed
  upstream for F-14 or at the very least clarified. It was agreed in
  F-12 that the Geode LX would be supported and that decision wasn't
  discussed otherwise. Please add to the conversation on the ticket or
  the list. It might be worth seeing the outcome of this before we go
  and reinvent the wheel again.

 I think sitting around and waiting to see the outcome of a very
 unclear situation is possibly disastrous.  Why not hash out a few
 ideas while there is still wiggle room in the decision making process?
  The way I see it we have a few uncertainties right now.

 1)  Will there be actual support for the Geode processor in F14?  The
 official stance is yes, however after reading that thread there seems
 to be some dissension in the ranks.

 2)  If it is supported, what is the performance impact of using
 emulated instructions?

 3)  Will this all get solidified in time-frame that gives OLPC a warm
 fuzzy feeling about basing their next release on F14?

 The way I see it, OLPC and SugarLabs need some automated performance
 testing to verify that using emulated instructions do not slow things
 down an unacceptable amount.  Even for this testing to be done the
 patches and recompilation of at least core packages need to be done.
 We don't need all the bells and whistles but the short-list is kernel,
 glibc, gstreamer, xorg, alsa, python, sugar.  Fedora's dev cycle is 6
 months so if it is going to take longer than 2 months ( of course this
 can be discussed ) it is probably worth the effort to scope out some
 alternative paths forward.

 I am at the point where I already need some GUI testing tools to move
 forward in my graphics card performance development.  I will
 definitely need some help putting together use case scenarios.  Anyone
 else have any time to work on this?


I'd sure love to see better graphics support on the XO 1.5. Not that I have
free time on a schedulle but when I do find it, how can I help you?

Best regards,
Tiago



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Re: AIR + Flash/AIR issues wikis

2010-06-07 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 7:02 AM, John Gilmore g...@toad.com wrote:

  There's a long standing hard bug of non-accelerated video on Linux
  (not just XO). That hurts hurts HURTS any Linux device. There is some
  backstory on that -- it's whether to use Xv or not, whether the video
  frames can be grabbed from the Xv pipeline to overlay stuff on top or
  not - early Flash9 used Xv, then stopped, and vid performance sucked
  ever since.

 Prerelease versions of gnash now have accelerated video on Linux.  It
 uses the terrible Intel-designed vaapi (it only accelerates video
 codecs that Intel approves of, and is not readily extensible).  But
 it's better than nothing.  Is there a vaapi accelerated video
 implementation for the XO-1.5?


Perhaps it can be implemented in VDPAU? It is now open-source and has the
most widespread support.
VA-API, AFAIK, is supported by both Intel and AMD, although it is far from
being a replacement to VDPAU.

Best regards


John

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Re: challenges of distro switching

2010-06-07 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 5:47 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Sat, Jun 5, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:
  A mountain of packages and their corresponding effects on the system,
 ...

  It also invalidates many processes that myself and others have been
  training in the field, such as usage of rpm/yum, how to write spec
  files, etc.

 These two points are incredibly important. We do not use Fedora
 superficially -- we use it in depth to achieve some unique features.
 And while the 'core dev' team is familiar with Debian/Ubuntu, Gentoo
 and a few other linuxen, the OLPC ecosystem involves people who have
 made important investments in learning this toolchain.


It's the part I don't have any idea of how it works. Thanks for the input, I
certainly understand the motives now.
It's unfortunate that they don't build a Fedora LTS, sure looks like
something that would be useful for you.


 The third point is that the polish of the whole product comes down to
 subtle interactions between the components. We work hard to make
 everything Just Work for the components and hardware of a given
 release, and it takes time and work. Doing it for another distro
 takes... time and work.


And money :|
I hope you manage to keep problem free going forward. This compiler
architecture upgrade is certainly unfortunate.
Any plans on Fedora/ARM for the XO-1.75?

Best regards,
Tiago


 cheers,



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Re: Alternative option for solving Fedora i686 vs geode problems

2010-06-04 Thread Tiago Marques
On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 10:19 PM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:

 In another thread, we've been discussing the issue that Fedora 12
 changed base architecture from i586 to i686. The XO-1 processor (Geode
 LX) is a i586. Fedora 12 seems to run OK (although I suspect there
 will be a few broken packages), but Fedora 13 is more obviously broken
 (for a start, glibc doesn't work).

 The approach we've been musing about is modifying the kernel to fill
 in the gaps, where the Geode does not support a particular i686
 instruction we can emulate it. (unfortunately this kernel-side project
 is a bit slow moving, although we could find some resources to boost
 it maybe)


Even slower?
AFAIK there were some sugestions from the GCC team - I think - that the
Geode runs faster with the i486 compilation and not i586. I never put that
claim to test though.


 I just thought of another option that we could consider looking at,
 once we've finished off the F11-based release when we're ready to
 think about moving forward.
 Fedora's build tools are good and consistent, so we could simply
 rebuild the parts of Fedora that we use.


 1. Do a regular OS build (for i686)

 The build system outputs a package list, e.g.
 http://build.laptop.org/10.2.0/os122/os122.packages.txt

 2. Download the SRPMs for each package in the list (using
 yumdownloader --source for example)

 3. Pass each SRPM to mock, using a modified config which sets
 config_opts['target_arch'] to i586


Perhaps a quick test with compiler options before deciding on any. I can
help with this.


 4. Take all of mock's output, conveniently compiled for i586, putting
 the RPMs in a repository

 5. Do a build using the i586 repository

 Comments/suggestions/refinements?


If you're planning on doing a repository exclusively for the XO-1, Gentoo is
simple to setup and, from what I read on this mailing list, thicks all your
boxes:

   - You can upgrade GCC and glibc when you want to(or don't)
   - Compile properly compiler optimized packages
   - Keep network-manager up to date, upgrade it whenever you want (CentOS
   doesn't, right?)
   - Update involves issuing a bunch of emerge commands for your binary
   packages hosted on the repository, compile once like with Fedora.
   - glsa-check -tv all shows you what you need to fix security wise, when
   you're in maintenance mode.
   - Portage can be put on a squashfs filesystem and take just ~50MB of disk
   instead of 700+(I've done this on my XO)
   - There's already a* sugar overlay available* with ebuilds
   - Get a lower memory footprint from building packages using just the
   necessary features through USE flags

I have this setup at home and can also give you a hand with this.

Best regards,
Tiago


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Re: #10045 HIGH 1.5-sof: XO-1.5 Record audio/video are out of sync with each other

2010-05-12 Thread Tiago Marques
On Tue, May 11, 2010 at 12:47 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 05:33:07PM +0100, Tiago Marques wrote:
  On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 7:37 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:
  On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 05:24:00PM +, Tiago Marques wrote:
   I was just looking into this and the issue with SD cards' random
 write
   performance intrigued me in this particular case.   Isn't recording
   being performed sequentially, hence no lag problem?
 
  At the moment, assuming an application that opens a file, and writes
 to
  it at _any_ speed, occasionally the write will block for a huge
 amount
  of time.  [...]
 
  Now this is surprising given that the I/O rate is trivial, and that
  there is ample memory for buffering the writes.
 
  Indeed. But that's the price paid for non-cached 0.04KB/s random write
  media.

 I'm worried you might not have understood my point.  I don't believe it
 should have anything to do with the speed of the media.  In this first
 test, the rate of the application write is much lower than the random
 write speed of the media.

 It is as if the kernel is failing to buffer a write, instead blocking
 it for the duration of some media related event.  I think this is wrong.


I did get wrong what you said. Well, then that does go in line with the
problem of Firefox freezing around the same time regardless of using a very
fast SSD like Intel's X25-M(what linus used) vs regular HDDs. Given the
speed of random writes on the intel SSD, they should be much lower. Their
fix was moving ext3 and ext4 to default to data=writeback, which seems to me
that went around the problem by a different approach, without exactly
solving it. Plus, data=writeback is not very safe.

You seem to be on to something with those VM tweaks in the more recent
e-mails.



 I won't consider different filesystems or I/O schedulers until I can see
 why the kernel fails to buffer a write.  Because if it is going to do
 this, then no matter what filesystem or scheduler is used, it will
 happen again.


True.



 Userspace should be permitted to continue execution.

  [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# echo 1  /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
  [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# echo 2  /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
  [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# echo 3  /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
  [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# free
  [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# time strace -o /tmp/k -e write -T dd
 if=/dev/zero of=/root/file bs=8192 count=32000
  [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# free
  [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# grep write k|cut -f2 -d''|cut -f1
 -d''|sort -rn|more
  11.648413
  8.020875
  4.299857
 
  I've no explanation for this behaviour.
 
  hmmm? But this is to the tmpfs???

 Not so.  This is to SD card.  /root is on SD card.  Please reconsider
 your reply in that light.


I tested your script and I'm having an order of magnitude lower on my
desktop (0.04) for the maximum delay but it still varies a lot. I'll have to
look into it in more depth and test it on the XO when I find the time.

Best regards,
Tiago



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Re: #10045 HIGH 1.5-sof: XO-1.5 Record audio/video are out of sync with each other

2010-05-10 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 7:37 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Sat, May 08, 2010 at 05:24:00PM +, Tiago Marques wrote:
  I was just looking into this and the issue with SD cards' random write
  performance intrigued me in this particular case.  Isn't recording
  being performed sequentially, hence no lag problem?

 At the moment, assuming an application that opens a file, and writes to
 it at _any_ speed, occasionally the write will block for a huge amount
 of time.

 As an example, consider this shell script:

 #!/bin/sh
 while true; do
echo ok
sleep 0.01
 done

 And then this command to execute it:

 strace -o /tmp/k -e write -T /tmp/j  /root/file

 And then after several minutes or hours of run the strace file is
 analysed:

 grep write k|cut -f2 -d''|cut -f1 -d''|sort -rn|more

 One will find several instances of write(2) syscalls taking huge
 amounts of time:

 0.406725
 0.347159

 Now this is surprising given that the I/O rate is trivial, and that
 there is ample memory for buffering the writes.


Indeed. But that's the price paid for non-cached 0.04KB/s random write
media. I've witnessed some block as much as 2s under heavy I/O.
Also, I've been experimenting with I/O schedulers and they seem to help,
although I haven't done any measurement, just using the XO. I should try
your test. Someone tested the schedulers and they do make a difference:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/forum/showthread.php?53573-NILFS2-Linux-File-System...-Have-you-tried-itp=365930viewfull=1#post365930

I only tried noop because deadline is not built in the Fedora XO kernel, but
it has been also suggested as an alternative, possibly better than noop:

nilfs scheduler noop 0:15min
nilfs scheduler cfq 0:27min
btrfs scheduler cfq 0:35min
ext2 scheduler cfq 1:38min
ext2 scheduler noop 1:29min



 If the test is repeated with the writes directed to tmpfs, there are no
 such delays.

 If the test is repeated at a much faster I/O rate using dd(1), ensuring
 that ample free memory is available to buffer the writes, then one still
 gets huge delays.  Consider this test sequence:

 a.  drop all caches,

 b.  verify free memory,

 c.  write 262144000 bytes in 8192 byte blocks,

 d.  verify cache is used,

 e.  look at the distribution of the slowest writes.

 [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# echo 1  /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
 [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# echo 2  /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
 [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# echo 3  /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches
 [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# free
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
 Mem:949256  96328 852928  0 88  30304
 -/+ buffers/cache:  65936 883320
 Swap:0  0  0
 [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# time strace -o /tmp/k -e write -T dd if=/dev/zero
 of=/root/file bs=8192 count=32000
 32000+0 records in
 32000+0 records out
 262144000 bytes (262 MB) copied, 59.8669 s, 4.4 MB/s

 real0m59.929s
 user0m1.960s
 sys 0m5.350s
 [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# free
 total   used   free sharedbuffers cached
 Mem:949256 361192 588064  0672 287568
 -/+ buffers/cache:  72952 876304
 Swap:0  0  0
 [r...@xo-a7-2a-5a tmp]# grep write k|cut -f2 -d''|cut -f1 -d''|sort
 -rn|more
 11.648413
 8.020875
 4.299857
 3.282466
 2.960739
 2.151048
 2.147674
 2.090824
 1.972840
 1.740923
 1.721511
 1.674147
 1.652831
 1.538634
 1.430747
 1.417739
 1.22
 0.961700
 0.847079
 0.009241
 0.009202
 0.005332

 I've no explanation for this behaviour.


hmmm? But this is to the tmpfs???


 I don't think any different filesystem will affect the issue, but it
 would probably be a good thing to try.  Let us know how it goes!


As you can see by the above tests, there is a good difference, it probably
won't mitigate the problem but should make it more bearable. Must recompile
some kernels, perhaps I'll have something by the end of the week.

Best regards,
Tiago


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Re: #10045 HIGH 1.5-sof: XO-1.5 Record audio/video are out of sync with each other

2010-05-10 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 5:45 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 2:37 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:
  I've no explanation for this behaviour.

 Do we still have some (sugar?) log files opened 'sync'? ext3/4 still
 'fsync' the whole partition, which may explain the erratic
 performance.

 Linus has been railing against this (with the FF freezes laptop
 issue a while ago) and Tytso eventually agreed. So ext4 may at some
 point improve on this. Perhaps btrfs does better.


That makes sense, at least he mentioned that the difference in delays
between an HDD and intel's SSD was none.
http://lwn.net/Articles/328363/

Best regards,
Tiago

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Re: XO 1.5 frequency scaling

2010-05-08 Thread Tiago Marques
On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 martin wrote:
  
   Running powertop on your machine is hugely informational once you've
   read the powertop website docs.

 re: powertop -- with silbe's help our battery driver now provides
 enough of the expected properties under /sys to let powertop make
 crude power measurements [1].  you have to build from their svn,
 though, because of a bug that's not normally exposed on machines
 using the ACPI driver.  (to clarify -- i have the fix -- it's not
 in their svn repo yet -- i need to send it in.)

 but as richard implied, a tool like powertop won't help you tune
 your laptop much, since it only measures what happens when it's
 running.  we save so much power with aggressive S3 that the changes
 from P-states, and to some extent C-states, are in the noise.


I see, cool. I must say I'm very surprised by how long the XO 1.5 can hold
the battery when it's suspended. I have yet to mod my B2 with the wireless
ECO and since it always turns off wireless when suspended IIRC it used like
12% of the battery while suspended for 8 hours. Must check this again, it
seemed too good to be true and a great work on the power management details!

Best regards,
Tiago



 paul
 [1] richard's logs and tools are far more informative, but it's
 fun watching the powertop numbers change.
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Fwd: XO 1.5 frequency scaling

2010-05-08 Thread Tiago Marques
-- Forwarded message --
From: Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, May 8, 2010 at 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: XO 1.5 frequency scaling
To: Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org


Hi Richard,

On Wed, May 5, 2010 at 12:28 AM, Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.orgwrote:

 On 05/04/2010 07:01 PM, Tiago Marques wrote:

  Let me see if I understand what you said. I understand how it works on
  desktop and regular laptops. You load the module for the specific power
  saving feature and either a kernel module to do the job or the userspace
  module which then allows a daemon to do the frequency scaling.
  Now the XO 1.5, AFAIK, isn't doing it or powerd is doing it(or openfw).
  I tried loading the C7 power saver module but it can't find the device.
  Is it already being taken and should I not worry with frequency scaling
  although /proc/cpuinfo always shows 1000MHz?

 The module is not enabled in the kernel build and in our case appears to
 only offer saving in very limited cases.  Yes, you could cap your max
 frequency and max power draw but in general you end up using more
 power*time that way because you keep all the other components that don't
 have sort of power scaling up longer then they would have been because
 it takes longer to do the task.  If you decrease the power draw 2x but
 then extend the time 2x you have gained nothing.


Not my experience, but I'm desktop biased I guess. I was thinking that you
could further lower the core voltage on the XO and get something like 50%
the clock with 25% or less power. But, as you describe below, if VIA managed
such an agressive power gating, it's the way to go.


 Feel free to experiment though.  The latest versions of powerd have
 power logging built in and if you want a more specific measurement my
 power logging scripts should be useful.

 IIRC I had to hack on the driver a bit to make it work.  The following
 is a summary email I posted from when I worked on it.

 Notes:
 - Ignore the comment about C5. Our CPU does not support C5.

 - Ignore the comment about being scared to burn up the CPU.  We now have
 thermal throttling enabled and have tested it extensively. Unless you
 turn that off you should not be able to burn up the CPU.


This is on olpc-powerd or the VIA C7 powersaver driver? I couldn't find
anything related to over/underclocking in powerd.
Did I miss some firmware or kernel update, as I can't load the c7 powersaver
kernel module in a kernel I built myself.



 ==
 I spent the day/night today working on getting our C states and P states
 enabled.

 The good news is that I got C4,C5 and frequency/voltage scaling (P
 states) working.

 The bad news is that C5 causes memory corruption and P states don't help
 much.

 Enabling C4 seems to save us about 170mW in idle.


Any measurement on how low it goes in C4?



 C5 should save us a bit more but with it enabled the system won't boot.
 It gets all sorts of funky ext4 errors.  C5 turns off the L2 cache and
 the docs say you should flush before entering.  I suspect thats not
 happening.

 P states currently don't seem to save us enough to be measured.  One
 reason is that our core voltage is set by default to be very close to
 the minimum.  Its at .796V and the minimum is .7V with scaling enabled
 (+ code hack) the minimum setting drops Vcore to .73V. Its supposed to
 go to .7 but the volt meter says otherwise.  60mV diff doesn't offer a
 whole lot of savings.


I see, I thought they could drop it even further.



 The CPU frequency slides between 400Mhz and 1GHz and you would think
 that it would make a large difference but the meter says otherwise.  How
 can that be you ask?  The answer is because Linux issues a hlt when
 idle.  If you run the test under OFW then you can create up to 1.5W of
 power difference by sliding the freq from min to max [1] and holding the
 Vcore constant.  But in idle not so much.  The processor already does a
 very good job of gating the clocks.


Nice, kudos for VIA.


 So this brings us back to what we already knew.  The big money on power
 savings is in our special sauce idle suspend.

 [1] Turns out you can overclock the processor.  Via lists the max
 multiplier at 16x FSB (100Mhz) which is 1.6Ghz even though its listed as
 a max of 1Ghz. However if you continue to put values into the multiplier
 register the power draw continues to increase.  I stopped when the
 system draw had hit 9W cause the XO on the power meter does not have a
 heat spreader and I didn't want to take the chance of burning it up.
 =


The heatspreader I can hack with a heatpipe and some coolers, I'm going to
do it anyway since it is already going to 85ºC in load. The speed is of some
use to me most of the time, I'm just worried that the VRM can't handle the
extra current.

Best regards,
Tiago



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Re: Fwd: XO 1.5 frequency scaling

2010-05-08 Thread Tiago Marques
 you're right.  there's nothing in powerd related to clocking.  powerd
 limits itself to managing the display, wlan on/off, and system suspend.


Seemed so, thanks.


   Did I miss some firmware or kernel update, as I can't load the c7
powersaver
   kernel module in a kernel I built myself.

 are you sure you're running the kernel you built?  (i.e., it, and
 whatever symlinks it needs to vmlinuz, need to be in /boot and
 /bootpart/boot.)

Yup, I'm not running it over Fedora but on Gentoo in an external HDD.
Some patch missing in the kernel perhaps?

Best regards,
Tiago


 paul

  
  
   
==
I spent the day/night today working on getting our C states and P
states
enabled.
   
The good news is that I got C4,C5 and frequency/voltage scaling (P
states) working.
   
The bad news is that C5 causes memory corruption and P states don't
help
much.
   
Enabling C4 seems to save us about 170mW in idle.
   
  
   Any measurement on how low it goes in C4?
  
  
   
C5 should save us a bit more but with it enabled the system won't
boot.
It gets all sorts of funky ext4 errors.  C5 turns off the L2 cache
and
the docs say you should flush before entering.  I suspect thats not
happening.
   
P states currently don't seem to save us enough to be measured.  One
reason is that our core voltage is set by default to be very close to
the minimum.  Its at .796V and the minimum is .7V with scaling
enabled
(+ code hack) the minimum setting drops Vcore to .73V. Its supposed
to
go to .7 but the volt meter says otherwise.  60mV diff doesn't offer
a
whole lot of savings.
   
  
   I see, I thought they could drop it even further.
  
  
   
The CPU frequency slides between 400Mhz and 1GHz and you would think
that it would make a large difference but the meter says otherwise.
 How
can that be you ask?  The answer is because Linux issues a hlt when
idle.  If you run the test under OFW then you can create up to 1.5W
of
power difference by sliding the freq from min to max [1] and holding
the
Vcore constant.  But in idle not so much.  The processor already does
a
very good job of gating the clocks.
   
   
   Nice, kudos for VIA.
  
  
So this brings us back to what we already knew.  The big money on
power
savings is in our special sauce idle suspend.
   
[1] Turns out you can overclock the processor.  Via lists the max
multiplier at 16x FSB (100Mhz) which is 1.6Ghz even though its listed
as
a max of 1Ghz. However if you continue to put values into the
multiplier
register the power draw continues to increase.  I stopped when the
system draw had hit 9W cause the XO on the power meter does not have
a
heat spreader and I didn't want to take the chance of burning it up.
=
   
  
   The heatspreader I can hack with a heatpipe and some coolers, I'm going
to
   do it anyway since it is already going to 85ºC in load. The speed is
of some
   use to me most of the time, I'm just worried that the VRM can't handle
the
   extra current.
  
   Best regards,
   Tiago
  
  
   
--
   
Richard A. Smith  rich...@laptop.org
One Laptop per Child
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Re: #10045 HIGH 1.5-sof: XO-1.5 Record audio/video are out of sync with each other

2010-05-08 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi,

I was just looking into this and the issue with SD cards' random write
performance intrigued me in this particular case.
Isn't recording being performed sequentially, hence no lag problem? At
least, it should be somewhat mitigated, filesystem might be causing
problems?

Anyhow, I have been looking into how to go around the random write problem
and NILFS2 popped up. In theory it seems a very capable way of having a
whole lot better performance, as it should only perform sequential
writes(unfortunately only partially). Anyone tried it before choosing ext3?

I have still not gotten to backuping the fs and moving it to NILFS2. It even
has SSD options and can suspend the garbage collector within some criteria,
helping alleviate the wear issue.

Best regards,
Tiago


On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Zarro Boogs per Child bugtrac...@laptop.org
 wrote:

 #10045: XO-1.5 Record audio/video are out of sync with each other

 ---+
   Reporter:  wad  |   Owner:  dsd
   Type:  defect   |  Status:  new
   Priority:  high |   Milestone:  1.5-software-update
  Component:  record-activity  | Version:  Development build as
 of this date
 Resolution:   |Keywords:  camera record XO-1.5
Next_action:  diagnose |Verified:  0
 Deployment_affected:   |   Blockedby:
   Blocking:   |

 ---+

 Comment(by Quozl):

  A significant improvement in video recording is achieved by moving the
  instance directory for the Record activity off the SD card.

  The result was no significant pauses in video motion during recording, and
  a much more predictable A/V latency.

  The downside is restricted recording time.

  This suggests that the current problems with recording are due to the SD
  writes.  See #9688 (terrible SD write performance: wontfix), #9995
  (optimise kernel write block size), and #10112 (GUI freezes on fsync).

  While this is not the best way of doing it, this is the method I used:

  * start Record,
  * copy the directory to a large enough tmpfs,
  {{{
  cd .sugar/default
  rsync -a org.laptop.RecordActivity /dev/shm
  }}}
  * remove the old directory and create a symlink,
  {{{
  rm -rf org.laptop.RecordActivity  \
  ln -s /dev/shm/org.laptop.RecordActivity
  }}}
  * continue using the Record activity.

  (This symlink persists until removed ... and since /dev/shm is empty next
  boot the Record activity will fail to start.)

 --
 Ticket URL: http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10045#comment:25
 One Laptop Per Child http://laptop.org/
 OLPC bug tracking system

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Re: XO 1.5 frequency scaling

2010-05-04 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi Martin,

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:09 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:
  I have been wondering for some time how are you controlling the frequency
 of
  the C7 processor in Fedora. Is this being done in the background by

 LWN recently did a nice post on idle. That should give you good
 background info.


Let me see if I understand what you said. I understand how it works on
desktop and regular laptops. You load the module for the specific power
saving feature and either a kernel module to do the job or the userspace
module which then allows a daemon to do the frequency scaling.
Now the XO 1.5, AFAIK, isn't doing it or powerd is doing it(or openfw). I
tried loading the C7 power saver module but it can't find the device. Is it
already being taken and should I not worry with frequency scaling although
/proc/cpuinfo always shows 1000MHz?


 AIUI, the job is mainly in the kernel and CPU. Outside of that, powerd
 controls aggressive suspend which is actually suspend that happens so
 fast (or should happen so fast) that the user doesn't notice -- just
 like your mobile phone does.


That's definitely working as advertised and with a top notch response time
:)
Great work!

Best regards,
Tiago




 cheers,



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XO 1.5 frequency scaling

2010-05-03 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

I have been wondering for some time how are you controlling the frequency of
the C7 processor in Fedora. Is this being done in the background by
openfirmware or some other place where it is not visible. I would like to
test it's effect on battery life and to know if power management needs to be
done in another way for other distros.

Also, similarly to the XO 1, can one do something with openfirmware to test
overclocking and not just underclocking, as has been mentioned in some
previous e-mails.

Best regards,
Tiago
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Re: New keyboard layouts

2010-04-28 Thread Tiago Marques
I must ask, what's the default behavior of function keys in the new layout?
Fn changes them to F keys, or are they F keys without Fn pressed?

Tiago

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:

  The following are the keyboard layouts and legends for these
  new keyboards.   Much thanks to Walter Bender for developing
  these given a bad set of constraints.
  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_English_Non-membrane_Keyboard

 There may be users who wish to plug in an external keyboard.  Such
 external keyboards often have function keys grouped in sets of four.
 Such grouping places F5 at the beginning of a row of four keys, and
 places F6 in the middle of a row of four keys.

 Suppose users might be pressing the key for 'frame' more often than the
 key for 'search'.  Should the 'frame' function be assigned to the F5
 key, since on external keyboards the F5 key might be easier to locate ?

 mikus

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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 121

2010-04-28 Thread Tiago Marques
Ok, do add it in the changelog when it's done and I'll check again.

I actually prefer to have tap to click enabled, so I'm glad it can be turned
on by editing a file.


Just for reference:

$ uname -a
Linux xo-73-22-b6.localdomain 2.6.31_xo1.5-20100423.1840.1.olpc.2884b56 #1
PREEMPT Fri Apr 23 18:44:23 EDT 2010 i686 i686 i386 GNU/Linux

Which should be what you expect.

Best regards,
Tiago


On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 martin wrote:
   On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:31 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com
 wrote:
Tap to click is still working for me after using olpc-upgrade.
  
   Can you tell us the output of uname -a, to confirm you got the new
   kernel in place?

 it's not a kernel change -- the kernel change happened a release or
 two ago.  the needed change is a conf file in /etc/modprobe.d, which
 will come in with a new olpc-utils.

 paul
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Re: New keyboard layouts

2010-04-28 Thread Tiago Marques
I was just looking at the layout again and just noticed the new arrow keys
placement. That is a very awkward placement. Is that definitive or can you
do something like shorten the shift key to accommodate the UP arrow?

I suppose that would be another hard sell for deployments against netbooks
with the regular placement of keys.

Best regads,
Tiago

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:

 I must ask, what's the default behavior of function keys in the new layout?
 Fn changes them to F keys, or are they F keys without Fn pressed?

 Tiago


 On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:

  The following are the keyboard layouts and legends for these
  new keyboards.   Much thanks to Walter Bender for developing
  these given a bad set of constraints.
  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_English_Non-membrane_Keyboard

 There may be users who wish to plug in an external keyboard.  Such
 external keyboards often have function keys grouped in sets of four.
 Such grouping places F5 at the beginning of a row of four keys, and
 places F6 in the middle of a row of four keys.

 Suppose users might be pressing the key for 'frame' more often than the
 key for 'search'.  Should the 'frame' function be assigned to the F5
 key, since on external keyboards the F5 key might be easier to locate ?

 mikus

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Re: New keyboard layouts

2010-04-28 Thread Tiago Marques
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 tiago wrote:
   I must ask, what's the default behavior of function keys in the new
 layout?
   Fn changes them to F keys, or are they F keys without Fn pressed?

 the labels on the function keys are just alternate meanings, not
 alternate scancodes.  i.e., the key labeled 'network
 neighborhood' on an XO has always generated the F1 scancode.
 this will continue to be the case, with no modifiers required.

 i believe the only keys the Fn key modifies, currently, are the arrow
 keys, which generate pgup/pgdn/home/end when modified by Fn.

 (yes, you've been caught by an ambiguity in the keytop labeling.)


I know :|
Not understanding anything of the underlying software or hardware, wouldn't
it be possible to have the Fn keys really modifying those keys? That could
bring some benefit, at least for me. I frequently find myself needing the F
functions in gnome.

Also, if that's the case, and the default are the sugar actions, why not
make those the big symbols at make the F* keys smaller?

Best regards,
Tiago



 paul

  
   Tiago
  
   On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:
  
 The following are the keyboard layouts and legends for these
 new keyboards.   Much thanks to Walter Bender for developing
 these given a bad set of constraints.
 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_English_Non-membrane_Keyboard
   
There may be users who wish to plug in an external keyboard.  Such
external keyboards often have function keys grouped in sets of four.
Such grouping places F5 at the beginning of a row of four keys, and
places F6 in the middle of a row of four keys.
   
Suppose users might be pressing the key for 'frame' more often than
 the
key for 'search'.  Should the 'frame' function be assigned to the F5
key, since on external keyboards the F5 key might be easier to locate
 ?
   
mikus
   
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Re: New keyboard layouts

2010-04-28 Thread Tiago Marques


 maybe i'm misunderstanding you, but i think i didn't do a good
 job up above.  the 4 keys used by sugar for network, friends,
 home, and activity _are_ F1 through F4.  those keys have never
 been special, and they're not special on the new keyboard.  all
 that's changed on the new keyboard is that the keys now have two
 names:  the symbolic sugar icon, and the traditional F{1,2,3,4}
 name.


Nope, you read me right. I have not a good idea of what goes on in that
background(altough I knew they were the default F keys currently) so I was
asking if that was possible - to have different meanings to the F1-12 keys
and having them send another code when pressing Fn+F1-12, as it could be
reused by software(xmodmap?).

Since you're already reusing the F keys with gnome loaded to control volume
and the backlight, it makes sense to me to have the Fn key modify the
behavior to provide the default F1-12 behavior in some way. While they're
not used constantly, they are important sometimes. I frequently ran into
this problem and there's no easy way around missing F keys in Gnome, as if
this is a common use case... probably not but I don't do deployments :|

Best regards,
Tiago

this is in contrast with the arrow and pgup/dn/home/end keys where the
 secondary meaning is available only when you press the Fn key.

paul

  
   Best regards,
   Tiago
  
  
   
paul
   
 
  Tiago
 
  On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com
 wrote:
 
The following are the keyboard layouts and legends for these
new keyboards.   Much thanks to Walter Bender for developing
these given a bad set of constraints.
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_English_Non-membrane_Keyboard
  
   There may be users who wish to plug in an external keyboard.
  Such
   external keyboards often have function keys grouped in sets of
 four.
   Such grouping places F5 at the beginning of a row of four keys,
 and
   places F6 in the middle of a row of four keys.
  
   Suppose users might be pressing the key for 'frame' more often
 than
the
   key for 'search'.  Should the 'frame' function be assigned to the
 F5
   key, since on external keyboards the F5 key might be easier to
 locate
?
  
   mikus
  
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Re: New keyboard layouts

2010-04-28 Thread Tiago Marques
Looks great, especially as the dot buttons are now more readable, while
the F keys can still be quickly identified anyway.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.comwrote:

 As per Tiago's suggestion, I made a version (so far only for the .es
 keyboard) with smaller f labels: See
 http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/File:OLPC-1.5-es-non-membrane.svg

 As per the arrow-key arrangement, I am on the fence. I would defer to
 the deployments.

 -walter
 --
 Walter Bender
 Sugar Labs
 http://www.sugarlabs.org

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Re: New keyboard layouts

2010-04-28 Thread Tiago Marques
On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 6:02 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz 
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:

 On Wed, 28 Apr 2010, Walter Bender wrote:

  On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I was just looking at the layout again and just noticed the new arrow
 keys
 placement.


  We debated this one. A shorter shift key would be difficult to type
 on. We opted to emulate the hjkl vi arrangement.


 Keyboard layout is virtually the ultimate bikeshed painting problem ... but
 here's my opinion anyway.

 Ins and Del are Harmful.  You probably know Ins because when you
 accidentally bump it, your editor switches into overwrite mode, and every
 character you type deletes another until you figure out what happened and
 hit Ins again.  Del is the reverse erase that nobody wants.  Apple, and
 the XO-1, have eliminated Ins and relegated Del to Fn+Erase.  I recommend
 removing both.


I had exactly those same problems with Ins when I started using computers
and can't remember the last time I used it. As for Del, I didn't even knew
it was supported in the XO but I have felt the need for it. Perhaps, if a
merge is in order, an F style mention would be the way to go?

Tiago


 Getting rid of those keys frees up valuable space that can be used, for
 example to move += to the top row, replaced by ?, replaced by up-arrow.  No
 more hjkl.

 Some other notes:

 1. fn is a bad key because software can't reuse it.  For example, on the
 XO-1 we tried to make fn+F1 send an F1 press to the activity (instead of
 going to the mesh view), but it was not possible because the fn key is
 treated specially by the keyboard microcontroller, and not forwarded to the
 OS.  There was no way to tell from software whether a user had pressed fn+F1
 or just F1.

 Accordingly, on new keyboards, OLPC should consider pushing this special
 handling into the software keyboard mapping as much as possible.  It's hard
 to see why fn+Spacebar needs to be a new keycode, and not just a series of
 standard up/down events.  The only tricky spot I can think of is
 PageUp/PageDown/Home/End.

 2. We have a lot of redundant modifier keys.  fn, altgr, and hand-key could
 all be a single key, because they are never used together.  If the keyboard
 controller would turn altgr+left into Home (etc.), there should be no
 regression of functionality, even under windows.

 --Ben


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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 121

2010-04-26 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi Chris,

Tap to click is still working for me after using olpc-upgrade.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 10:06 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
 http://build.laptop.org/10.2.0/os121

 Compressed image size: 678.38mb (+0.04mb since build 120)

 Description of changes in this build:
 * kernel, #10045: (hack) Fix video recording with audio sync in Record
 * kernel, #10119: disable tap-to-click
 * kernel, #9765: fix frame battery icon lags charging initiation
 * olpc-runin-tests: remove lm_sensors dependency
 * olpc-bootanim: (from Bernie) add Sugar Labs logo to boot splash animation
 * openchrome: fix scaling with Xv overlay
 * Pull F11 updates.

 Package changes since build 120:

 -elfutils-libelf-0.145-1.fc11.i586
 +elfutils-libelf-0.146-1.fc11.i586
 -kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100421.2010.1.olpc.f2b9ce0.i586
 +kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100423.1840.1.olpc.2884b56.i586
 -kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100421.2010.1.olpc.f2b9ce0.i586
 +kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100423.1840.1.olpc.2884b56.i586
 -lm_sensors-3.1.0-1.fc11.i586
 -olpc-bootanim-2.11-1.fc11.i586
 +olpc-bootanim-2.12-2.fc11.i386
 -olpc-runin-tests-0.9.15-1.noarch
 +olpc-runin-tests-0.9.17-1.noarch
 -xorg-x11-drv-openchrome-0.2.904-6.2.fc11.i586
 +xorg-x11-drv-openchrome-0.2.904-6.3.fc11.i586
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Re: Total power from USB

2010-04-25 Thread Tiago Marques
It's an Iomega 160GB, which has a seagate drive inside, not sure which one.

http://www.iomega.com/about/prreleases/2008/041708_media_xporter.html

As I said in the previous e-mail, the drive works fine, it just doesn't do
so when I have other devices plugged, which I understand may be normal given
the total power I am pulling of the XO 1.5. I just wanted to know if you
were are of that(and that SD cards take a toll on that power), because it
could be some kind of design flaw that wasn't detected. If it is a known
problem, then it's all good :)

Best regards,
Tiago

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 tiago wrote:
   I forgot to mention that's not my case since even if I plug the two USB
 ends
   it still can't power up.

 on either XO model the extra cables won't make a difference -- all the
 power (1A available total) is available to any port.  does your drive
 work on an XO-1?  do you have power consumption specs for your drive?

 paul

  
   Best regards,
   Tiago
  
   On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote:
  
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 Hi all,
 I've ran into something on the 1.5 B2 I have here, which I'm in
 doubt if
may
 or may not be relevant for OLPC's hardware people(it seems not), so
 I'm
 reporting it anyway.
 All three USB ports can deliver enough power to an USB 2.5 HDD, no
problem.
 They cannot in the following conditions:
  - An extra SD card is plugged in
  - Another USB device is plugged in one port, even one of lower
 power
like a
 flash drive. (sometimes it only takes one, sometimes it takes two,
 SD
card
 power also seems to be an issue)
 When I try to plug in the 2.5 HDD, it doesn't have enough power to
spindle
 at enough speed and sits there trying to start itself.
 When plugging in an USB device or SD card after the 2.5 HDD is
 already
 working, it suffers a loss of power and enters the restarting state.
 This
is
 true if the SD card is plugged in instead(with another USB device
present),
 which suggests me that the power is shared.
 No other plugged devices seem to be rendered temporarily
 unaccessible due
to
 the power failure on the high power device.
 Best regards,
 Tiago
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I see a similar issue with a Lacie drive on my Dell desktop. This
drive actually comes with a cable that has two USB cables to draw
power from two ports. With two ports, the platter spins without any
problem. With one port, the disk clicks on the Dell.
   
On a XO-1 G1G1, XO-1.5 B2 and XO-1.5 C2 I am able to power the same
drive via one port only both with a SD card and without a SD card. The
issue may very well be the USB drive power draw. I am using a LACIE
Design by FA Porsche http://bit.ly/9HD5uI
   
This will be important for XS-on-XO scenarios, where we would
piggyback the /library partition onto an external drive.
   
cheers,
Sameer
   
--
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Information Systems
Director, Campus Business Solutions
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
http://is.sfsu.edu/
   
   part 2 text/plain 129
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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 120

2010-04-25 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 tiago wrote:
   Hi all,
  
   Just tested the new build and the sound widget is not updating the sound
   level when using the volume keys. Pressing the widget shows the slider,
   which is set accordingly. This did work in previous versions, not sure
 which
   ones.

 i'll take a look at this, but please file a trac ticket.  to clarify --
 when you use the keys, is the volume changing?  is the widget changing?
 neither?


Will do.
The sound volume changes and the slider that's hidden also does, it's just
the speaker icon which always stays the same.

Best regards,
Tiago



 paul

  
   Everything else seems ok.
  
   Best regards,
   Tiago
  
   On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:
  
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
http://build.laptop.org/10.2.0/os120
   
Compressed image size: 678.35mb (-0.01mb since build 119)
   
Description of changes in this build:
* Speak: upstream Speak-14 release is broken (SL #1934), revert to
Speak-11.
* kernel, #10068: fix for black Xv overlay when starting Record.
* kernel, #10127: fix for DMA image corruption from camera in C3/C4.
* olpc-utils: olpc-pwr-log updates from rsmith.
* olpc-update: Move configuration from /security to /etc.
* powerd: Modify handling of battery dis/charge wakeups which were
 preventing eventual shutdown, and improve power logging, but
 apparently not enough for Richard.
* openchrome: minor cleanups from Jon Nettleton.
* Pull F11 updates.
   
Package changes since build 119:
   
-NetworkManager-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
+NetworkManager-0.7.2.996-1.fc11.i586
-NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
+NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.996-1.fc11.i586
-NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
+NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.996-1.fc11.i586
-abiword-2.8.2-1.fc11.i586
+abiword-2.8.4-1.fc11.i586
-alsa-lib-1.0.22-3.fc11.i586
+alsa-lib-1.0.23-1.fc11.i586
-bootfw-q3a35-1.unsigned.i386
+bootfw-q3a36-1.unsigned.i386
-curl-7.19.7-6.fc11.i586
+curl-7.19.7-7.fc11.i586
-grep-2.6.1-1.fc11.i586
+grep-2.6.3-1.fc11.i586
-hulahop-0.4.9-13.fc11.i586
+hulahop-0.7.1-1.fc11.i586
-kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100409.1311.1.olpc.03dde3f.i586
+kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100421.2010.1.olpc.f2b9ce0.i586
-kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100409.1311.1.olpc.03dde3f.i586
+kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100421.2010.1.olpc.f2b9ce0.i586
-krb5-libs-1.6.3-27.fc11.i586
+krb5-libs-1.6.3-29.fc11.i586
-krb5-workstation-1.6.3-27.fc11.i586
+krb5-workstation-1.6.3-29.fc11.i586
-libabiword-2.8.2-1.fc11.i586
+libabiword-2.8.4-1.fc11.i586
-libcurl-7.19.7-6.fc11.i586
+libcurl-7.19.7-7.fc11.i586
-nano-2.0.6-6.fc11.i586
+nano-2.0.9-1.fc11.i586
-olpc-powerd-18-1.fc11.i586
+olpc-powerd-19-1.fc11.i586
-olpc-update-2.21-1.fc11.noarch
+olpc-update-2.22-1.fc11.noarch
-olpc-utils-1.0.21-1.fc11.i586
+olpc-utils-1.0.22-1.fc11.i586
-sudo-1.7.2p5-1.fc11.i586
+sudo-1.7.2p6-1.fc11.i586
-sysvinit-tools-2.86-27.i586
+sysvinit-tools-2.86-28.fc11.i586
-tzdata-2010f-3.fc11.noarch
+tzdata-2010i-1.fc11.noarch
-xorg-x11-drv-openchrome-0.2.904-6.1.fc11.i586
+xorg-x11-drv-openchrome-0.2.904-6.2.fc11.i586
-yp-tools-2.9-6.fc11.i586
+yp-tools-2.9-7.fc11.i586
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Re: Total power from USB

2010-04-25 Thread Tiago Marques
Just checked and this is exactly the same behavior of the XO-1.

Best regards

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:

 It's an Iomega 160GB, which has a seagate drive inside, not sure which one.

 http://www.iomega.com/about/prreleases/2008/041708_media_xporter.html

 As I said in the previous e-mail, the drive works fine, it just doesn't do
 so when I have other devices plugged, which I understand may be normal given
 the total power I am pulling of the XO 1.5. I just wanted to know if you
 were are of that(and that SD cards take a toll on that power), because it
 could be some kind of design flaw that wasn't detected. If it is a known
 problem, then it's all good :)

 Best regards,
 Tiago

 On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 tiago wrote:
   I forgot to mention that's not my case since even if I plug the two USB
 ends
   it still can't power up.

 on either XO model the extra cables won't make a difference -- all the
 power (1A available total) is available to any port.  does your drive
 work on an XO-1?  do you have power consumption specs for your drive?

 paul

  
   Best regards,
   Tiago
  
   On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote:
  
On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 Hi all,
 I've ran into something on the 1.5 B2 I have here, which I'm in
 doubt if
may
 or may not be relevant for OLPC's hardware people(it seems not), so
 I'm
 reporting it anyway.
 All three USB ports can deliver enough power to an USB 2.5 HDD, no
problem.
 They cannot in the following conditions:
  - An extra SD card is plugged in
  - Another USB device is plugged in one port, even one of lower
 power
like a
 flash drive. (sometimes it only takes one, sometimes it takes two,
 SD
card
 power also seems to be an issue)
 When I try to plug in the 2.5 HDD, it doesn't have enough power to
spindle
 at enough speed and sits there trying to start itself.
 When plugging in an USB device or SD card after the 2.5 HDD is
 already
 working, it suffers a loss of power and enters the restarting
 state. This
is
 true if the SD card is plugged in instead(with another USB device
present),
 which suggests me that the power is shared.
 No other plugged devices seem to be rendered temporarily
 unaccessible due
to
 the power failure on the high power device.
 Best regards,
 Tiago
 ___
 Devel mailing list
 Devel@lists.laptop.org
 http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel

   
I see a similar issue with a Lacie drive on my Dell desktop. This
drive actually comes with a cable that has two USB cables to draw
power from two ports. With two ports, the platter spins without any
problem. With one port, the disk clicks on the Dell.
   
On a XO-1 G1G1, XO-1.5 B2 and XO-1.5 C2 I am able to power the same
drive via one port only both with a SD card and without a SD card.
 The
issue may very well be the USB drive power draw. I am using a LACIE
Design by FA Porsche http://bit.ly/9HD5uI
   
This will be important for XS-on-XO scenarios, where we would
piggyback the /library partition onto an external drive.
   
cheers,
Sameer
   
--
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, Information Systems
Director, Campus Business Solutions
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
http://is.sfsu.edu/
   
   part 2 text/plain 129
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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 120

2010-04-25 Thread Tiago Marques
Opened as http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10133

Tiago

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 9:53 AM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 11:21 PM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 tiago wrote:
   Hi all,
  
   Just tested the new build and the sound widget is not updating the
 sound
   level when using the volume keys. Pressing the widget shows the slider,
   which is set accordingly. This did work in previous versions, not sure
 which
   ones.

 i'll take a look at this, but please file a trac ticket.  to clarify --
 when you use the keys, is the volume changing?  is the widget changing?
 neither?


 Will do.
 The sound volume changes and the slider that's hidden also does, it's just
 the speaker icon which always stays the same.

 Best regards,
 Tiago



 paul

  
   Everything else seems ok.
  
   Best regards,
   Tiago
  
   On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:
  
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
http://build.laptop.org/10.2.0/os120
   
Compressed image size: 678.35mb (-0.01mb since build 119)
   
Description of changes in this build:
* Speak: upstream Speak-14 release is broken (SL #1934), revert to
Speak-11.
* kernel, #10068: fix for black Xv overlay when starting Record.
* kernel, #10127: fix for DMA image corruption from camera in
 C3/C4.
* olpc-utils: olpc-pwr-log updates from rsmith.
* olpc-update: Move configuration from /security to /etc.
* powerd: Modify handling of battery dis/charge wakeups which were
 preventing eventual shutdown, and improve power logging, but
 apparently not enough for Richard.
* openchrome: minor cleanups from Jon Nettleton.
* Pull F11 updates.
   
Package changes since build 119:
   
-NetworkManager-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
+NetworkManager-0.7.2.996-1.fc11.i586
-NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
+NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.996-1.fc11.i586
-NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
+NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.996-1.fc11.i586
-abiword-2.8.2-1.fc11.i586
+abiword-2.8.4-1.fc11.i586
-alsa-lib-1.0.22-3.fc11.i586
+alsa-lib-1.0.23-1.fc11.i586
-bootfw-q3a35-1.unsigned.i386
+bootfw-q3a36-1.unsigned.i386
-curl-7.19.7-6.fc11.i586
+curl-7.19.7-7.fc11.i586
-grep-2.6.1-1.fc11.i586
+grep-2.6.3-1.fc11.i586
-hulahop-0.4.9-13.fc11.i586
+hulahop-0.7.1-1.fc11.i586
-kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100409.1311.1.olpc.03dde3f.i586
+kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100421.2010.1.olpc.f2b9ce0.i586
-kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100409.1311.1.olpc.03dde3f.i586
+kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100421.2010.1.olpc.f2b9ce0.i586
-krb5-libs-1.6.3-27.fc11.i586
+krb5-libs-1.6.3-29.fc11.i586
-krb5-workstation-1.6.3-27.fc11.i586
+krb5-workstation-1.6.3-29.fc11.i586
-libabiword-2.8.2-1.fc11.i586
+libabiword-2.8.4-1.fc11.i586
-libcurl-7.19.7-6.fc11.i586
+libcurl-7.19.7-7.fc11.i586
-nano-2.0.6-6.fc11.i586
+nano-2.0.9-1.fc11.i586
-olpc-powerd-18-1.fc11.i586
+olpc-powerd-19-1.fc11.i586
-olpc-update-2.21-1.fc11.noarch
+olpc-update-2.22-1.fc11.noarch
-olpc-utils-1.0.21-1.fc11.i586
+olpc-utils-1.0.22-1.fc11.i586
-sudo-1.7.2p5-1.fc11.i586
+sudo-1.7.2p6-1.fc11.i586
-sysvinit-tools-2.86-27.i586
+sysvinit-tools-2.86-28.fc11.i586
-tzdata-2010f-3.fc11.noarch
+tzdata-2010i-1.fc11.noarch
-xorg-x11-drv-openchrome-0.2.904-6.1.fc11.i586
+xorg-x11-drv-openchrome-0.2.904-6.2.fc11.i586
-yp-tools-2.9-6.fc11.i586
+yp-tools-2.9-7.fc11.i586
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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 120

2010-04-24 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

Just tested the new build and the sound widget is not updating the sound
level when using the volume keys. Pressing the widget shows the slider,
which is set accordingly. This did work in previous versions, not sure which
ones.

Everything else seems ok.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
 http://build.laptop.org/10.2.0/os120

 Compressed image size: 678.35mb (-0.01mb since build 119)

 Description of changes in this build:
 * Speak: upstream Speak-14 release is broken (SL #1934), revert to
 Speak-11.
 * kernel, #10068: fix for black Xv overlay when starting Record.
 * kernel, #10127: fix for DMA image corruption from camera in C3/C4.
 * olpc-utils: olpc-pwr-log updates from rsmith.
 * olpc-update: Move configuration from /security to /etc.
 * powerd: Modify handling of battery dis/charge wakeups which were
  preventing eventual shutdown, and improve power logging, but
  apparently not enough for Richard.
 * openchrome: minor cleanups from Jon Nettleton.
 * Pull F11 updates.

 Package changes since build 119:

 -NetworkManager-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
 +NetworkManager-0.7.2.996-1.fc11.i586
 -NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
 +NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.996-1.fc11.i586
 -NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
 +NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.996-1.fc11.i586
 -abiword-2.8.2-1.fc11.i586
 +abiword-2.8.4-1.fc11.i586
 -alsa-lib-1.0.22-3.fc11.i586
 +alsa-lib-1.0.23-1.fc11.i586
 -bootfw-q3a35-1.unsigned.i386
 +bootfw-q3a36-1.unsigned.i386
 -curl-7.19.7-6.fc11.i586
 +curl-7.19.7-7.fc11.i586
 -grep-2.6.1-1.fc11.i586
 +grep-2.6.3-1.fc11.i586
 -hulahop-0.4.9-13.fc11.i586
 +hulahop-0.7.1-1.fc11.i586
 -kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100409.1311.1.olpc.03dde3f.i586
 +kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100421.2010.1.olpc.f2b9ce0.i586
 -kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100409.1311.1.olpc.03dde3f.i586
 +kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100421.2010.1.olpc.f2b9ce0.i586
 -krb5-libs-1.6.3-27.fc11.i586
 +krb5-libs-1.6.3-29.fc11.i586
 -krb5-workstation-1.6.3-27.fc11.i586
 +krb5-workstation-1.6.3-29.fc11.i586
 -libabiword-2.8.2-1.fc11.i586
 +libabiword-2.8.4-1.fc11.i586
 -libcurl-7.19.7-6.fc11.i586
 +libcurl-7.19.7-7.fc11.i586
 -nano-2.0.6-6.fc11.i586
 +nano-2.0.9-1.fc11.i586
 -olpc-powerd-18-1.fc11.i586
 +olpc-powerd-19-1.fc11.i586
 -olpc-update-2.21-1.fc11.noarch
 +olpc-update-2.22-1.fc11.noarch
 -olpc-utils-1.0.21-1.fc11.i586
 +olpc-utils-1.0.22-1.fc11.i586
 -sudo-1.7.2p5-1.fc11.i586
 +sudo-1.7.2p6-1.fc11.i586
 -sysvinit-tools-2.86-27.i586
 +sysvinit-tools-2.86-28.fc11.i586
 -tzdata-2010f-3.fc11.noarch
 +tzdata-2010i-1.fc11.noarch
 -xorg-x11-drv-openchrome-0.2.904-6.1.fc11.i586
 +xorg-x11-drv-openchrome-0.2.904-6.2.fc11.i586
 -yp-tools-2.9-6.fc11.i586
 +yp-tools-2.9-7.fc11.i586
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Camera, XO 1.5 vs XO 1

2010-04-24 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

Unsure if this was a side effect of cost cutting or improper calibration,
I'm reporting some differences I found between the camera in both models and
hope this information is of some use:

 - XO 1 has slower response time in the video being shown.
 - XO 1 has a much brighter picture, which results in a much clearer one.
Even with good surrounding light, the 1.5 shows a very dark image.
 - XO 1.5 record isn't saving more than 2s of video.

I thought that the camera sensor had been exchanged between revisions but
I've just checked and it's the same. What gives? Software?

Best regards,
Tiago
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Re: Camera, XO 1.5 vs XO 1

2010-04-24 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi Chris

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 5:18 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 Hi Tiago,

 You don't mention which build you're using, and it's important because
 we're still making many changes to the camera setup, so please do that
 in future.


Sorry about that, it's the latest versions:

XO 1 uses 8.2.0(767), that's the latest stable right?
XO 1.5 10.2.0 build 120.




- XO 1 has slower response time in the video being shown.

 I think this is probably http://dev http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10045

* ** Blocked By:** *

*Blocking:** *

.laptop.org/ticket/10045 http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10045.

 The 1.5 setup is capable of producing many more fps from the camera
 than 1.0, and Record doesn't use a framerate limiter on the preview
 window, with the result that you see a very high fps on the 1.5
 preview window at the cost of so much CPU use that Record becomes
 unresponsive.

 Daniel Drake's latest patches to Record add a framerate limiter to
 its preview window, which will make 1.5 behave more like 1.0.


I didn't said it became unresponsive, just that 1.5 was improved(at least
from a user's perspective). The high FPS is great, it's a shame that there
is never enough disk space to make use of it :)



- XO 1 has a much brighter picture, which results in a
much clearer one.  Even with good surrounding light, the 1.5
shows a very dark image.

 Don't know about this.  We do have some control over brightness/gain
 in the kernel driver, I think.

- XO 1.5 record isn't saving more than 2s of video.

 http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/10070.  Was fixed back in os119, as far
 as we know.


As above, tested in build 120 :|



I thought that the camera sensor had been exchanged between
revisions but I've just checked and it's the same. What gives?
Software?

 Yes, the sensor's the same, but the hardware and software interfacing
 to it is different.

 os121 (about to be released) should be able to record video well,
 please re-test with that when it's out.


Ok, will do, thanks. For now it's mostly the darker image that's an issue.
It's not that it's bad per se, but the XO1 picture is definitely great.

Best regards,
Tiago




 - Chris.
 --
 Chris Ball   c...@laptop.org
 One Laptop Per Child

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Total power from USB

2010-04-24 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

I've ran into something on the 1.5 B2 I have here, which I'm in doubt if may
or may not be relevant for OLPC's hardware people(it seems not), so I'm
reporting it anyway.

All three USB ports can deliver enough power to an USB 2.5 HDD, no problem.
They cannot in the following conditions:

 - An extra SD card is plugged in
 - Another USB device is plugged in one port, even one of lower power like a
flash drive. (sometimes it only takes one, sometimes it takes two, SD card
power also seems to be an issue)

When I try to plug in the 2.5 HDD, it doesn't have enough power to spindle
at enough speed and sits there trying to start itself.
When plugging in an USB device or SD card after the 2.5 HDD is already
working, it suffers a loss of power and enters the restarting state. This is
true if the SD card is plugged in instead(with another USB device present),
which suggests me that the power is shared.
No other plugged devices seem to be rendered temporarily unaccessible due to
the power failure on the high power device.

Best regards,
Tiago
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Re: Total power from USB

2010-04-24 Thread Tiago Marques
I forgot to mention that's not my case since even if I plug the two USB ends
it still can't power up.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Sameer Verma sve...@sfsu.edu wrote:

 On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 4:55 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi all,
  I've ran into something on the 1.5 B2 I have here, which I'm in doubt if
 may
  or may not be relevant for OLPC's hardware people(it seems not), so I'm
  reporting it anyway.
  All three USB ports can deliver enough power to an USB 2.5 HDD, no
 problem.
  They cannot in the following conditions:
   - An extra SD card is plugged in
   - Another USB device is plugged in one port, even one of lower power
 like a
  flash drive. (sometimes it only takes one, sometimes it takes two, SD
 card
  power also seems to be an issue)
  When I try to plug in the 2.5 HDD, it doesn't have enough power to
 spindle
  at enough speed and sits there trying to start itself.
  When plugging in an USB device or SD card after the 2.5 HDD is already
  working, it suffers a loss of power and enters the restarting state. This
 is
  true if the SD card is plugged in instead(with another USB device
 present),
  which suggests me that the power is shared.
  No other plugged devices seem to be rendered temporarily unaccessible due
 to
  the power failure on the high power device.
  Best regards,
  Tiago
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 I see a similar issue with a Lacie drive on my Dell desktop. This
 drive actually comes with a cable that has two USB cables to draw
 power from two ports. With two ports, the platter spins without any
 problem. With one port, the disk clicks on the Dell.

 On a XO-1 G1G1, XO-1.5 B2 and XO-1.5 C2 I am able to power the same
 drive via one port only both with a SD card and without a SD card. The
 issue may very well be the USB drive power draw. I am using a LACIE
 Design by FA Porsche http://bit.ly/9HD5uI

 This will be important for XS-on-XO scenarios, where we would
 piggyback the /library partition onto an external drive.

 cheers,
 Sameer

 --
 Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
 Associate Professor, Information Systems
 Director, Campus Business Solutions
 San Francisco State University
 http://verma.sfsu.edu/
 http://cbs.sfsu.edu/
 http://is.sfsu.edu/

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Re: B3 with different RAM chips

2010-04-20 Thread Tiago Marques
On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:54 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:51 PM, Tiago Marques wrote:

  Hi John,
 
  I'm trying out some new USB Flash drives from Sony that are quite
 fast(random write speed) compared to the SD cards shipping in the XO 1.5 and
 I'd just like to ask you something about the test script running on the
 Sandisk Extreme III:
 
  [edit] Sandisk Extreme III
  There are four XOs at 1CC running the tests on a SanDisk Extreme III 4-GB
 SD card. Build 8.2-760 was freshly installed on the laptops.
  The current test rates are roughly 3.8 sec/test step 4.1, and 4.1
 sec/test step 4.2. This translates roughly into a 17 MByte/s read rate, and
 a 5.7 MByte/s write rate.
  LaptopSerial #TestTotal Written
  SAN1  SHF725004D1 Wear  Error30,550
  SAN2  SHF7250048F Wear  Error28,335
  SAN3  SHF80600A54 Wear  Error28,730
  SAN4  CSN74902B22 Wear  Error29,250
 
  Am I getting this right? They endured 30TiB of writes and still did ok?

 No, that was 30K cycles (times 20MB/cycle) or just 600 GB.


That's too little :|
On that page it says that Total Written represents GiB, not cycles. Is
that incorrect?


  Did they start marking bad blocks as unusable, thus shrinking the drive,
 or did they remained with the same 4GB without failing?
  What are the results you obtained with the SD cards for XO 1.5 and which
 cards did you settled with?

 An SD card sets aside between 5 and 10% of the raw storage for use in
 fixing bad blocks.
 Thus, you will see no change in the size of the card over time, until it
 runs out of spare blocks
 and fails completely.


I'm asking this because I've ran into the shrinking behavior before, with
other devices(
http://www.siliconmadness.com/2008/03/asus-eee-pc-has-ssd-reliability-problem.html),
which to me seems a better trade-off.


 We didn't settle on one card, and even if I tell you the manufacturer and
 size it won't help
 as most have various OEM models for a given size.


I see. So you're saying that if you order the same card model and size, you
will still get different FTL and/or NAND?



  I haven't checked the brand of the sample in my B2 but it's been running
 rock solid as far as I can tell, the only problem is it being so slow with
 random writes because otherwise the 1.5 is quite a capable machine.

 Are you running into the SD card errors on an XO-1 ?


Just on cards I bought after market, either on the XO-1 or 1.5.
Only one SD card from Sandisk has been working perfectly for me, in the
XO-1. I'm looking at ways to test faster USB Flash drives, since the SD card
on the XO 1.5 becomes very slow at times. Installing Linux on an external
HDD is like breathing life into the device, I became very impressed with
performance when I tried it.

Best regards,
Tiago


 wad


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Re: B3 with different RAM chips

2010-04-20 Thread Tiago Marques
On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 2:27 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 On Apr 20, 2010, at 8:30 PM, Tiago Marques wrote:

  On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 8:54 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:
 
  On Apr 19, 2010, at 8:51 PM, Tiago Marques wrote:
 
   Hi John,
  
   I'm trying out some new USB Flash drives from Sony that are quite
 fast(random write speed) compared to the SD cards shipping in the XO 1.5 and
 I'd just like to ask you something about the test script running on the
 Sandisk Extreme III:
  
   [edit] Sandisk Extreme III
   There are four XOs at 1CC running the tests on a SanDisk Extreme III
 4-GB SD card. Build 8.2-760 was freshly installed on the laptops.
   The current test rates are roughly 3.8 sec/test step 4.1, and 4.1
 sec/test step 4.2. This translates roughly into a 17 MByte/s read rate, and
 a 5.7 MByte/s write rate.
   LaptopSerial #TestTotal Written
   SAN1  SHF725004D1 Wear  Error30,550
   SAN2  SHF7250048F Wear  Error28,335
   SAN3  SHF80600A54 Wear  Error28,730
   SAN4  CSN74902B22 Wear  Error29,250
  
   Am I getting this right? They endured 30TiB of writes and still did ok?
 
  No, that was 30K cycles (times 20MB/cycle) or just 600 GB.
 
  That's too little :|
  On that page it says that Total Written represents GiB, not cycles. Is
 that incorrect?
 
 
   Did they start marking bad blocks as unusable, thus shrinking the
 drive, or did they remained with the same 4GB without failing?
   What are the results you obtained with the SD cards for XO 1.5 and
 which cards did you settled with?
 
  An SD card sets aside between 5 and 10% of the raw storage for use in
 fixing bad blocks.
  Thus, you will see no change in the size of the card over time, until it
 runs out of spare blocks
  and fails completely.
 
 
  I'm asking this because I've ran into the shrinking behavior before, with
 other devices(
 http://www.siliconmadness.com/2008/03/asus-eee-pc-has-ssd-reliability-problem.html),
 which to me seems a better trade-off.
 
  We didn't settle on one card, and even if I tell you the manufacturer
 and size it won't help
  as most have various OEM models for a given size.
 
  I see. So you're saying that if you order the same card model and size,
 you will still get different FTL and/or NAND?

 No.   When OLPC specifies a card vendor and model, we require that the
 vendor not change either FTL or NAND
 without changing the model number.Quanta is large enough to get this
 assurance from vendors.


I see.


 When you buy a card in the retail market, you have little or no assurance
 that the
 card model number means anything.   See
 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?p=918
 for an example.


Great... :/
Thanks for the post, it was the best read I had all day.


 I haven't checked the brand of the sample in my B2 but it's been
 running rock solid as far as I can tell, the only problem is it being so
 slow with random writes because otherwise the 1.5 is quite a capable
 machine.
 
  Are you running into the SD card errors on an XO-1 ?
 
  Just on cards I bought after market, either on the XO-1 or 1.5.
  Only one SD card from Sandisk has been working perfectly for me, in the
 XO-1. I'm looking at ways to test faster USB Flash drives, since the SD card
 on the XO 1.5 becomes very slow at times. Installing Linux on an external
 HDD is like breathing life into the device, I became very impressed with
 performance when I tried it.

 There a number of known issues.   First, the performance of the external SD
 port on the XO-1
 was belatedly discovered to have a high bit-error rate.   This depends on
 the particular laptop
 and the SD card being tested.   The bit error rate is low enough that it
 didn't show up in Quanta's
 QA testing, but it does appear in my long term testing.


I never had any problems with mine, at least with the Sandisk 4G card. Guess
I got lucky.


 On XO-1.5, we ran into similar issues.  I fixed it for most cards, but
 there are notable exceptions.
 I was not able to eliminate the bit-error rate for any random card...


My B2 seems to be holding great, haven't seen on FS error of any kind. Do
you know what you've shipped or is it useful to get some feedback on the
card inside? I can take a look inside if it's useful for you(or better yet,
seems I only need to look at /sys?).

So... any kind of error rate on USB ports, or is that a safe route?

Best regards,
Tiago


 wad


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Re: the old keypad behavior gets too sensitive

2010-04-16 Thread Tiago Marques
I still have this same issue with my 1.5 B2, which I reported to the list a
while back. The pointer moves without touching the surface, although the
distance is more like 2mm than half an inch for me. It's still annoying most
of the time but one can live with it.

Tiago

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Stephen John Smoogen smo...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:
  I usually operate my XO with an external USB trackball, and have no
  problem with cursor positioning.  Lately I've often needed to operate
  XOs (hdw early G1G1, but F11 build) with the native keypad, and I can
  appreciate the many complaints I have heard about using the old keypad.

 I have been running into this with the XO-1.5 prototype but thought it
 was either a prototype issue or my fat fingers.. however I noticed it
 with my kid also. Pretty much the same behaviour you list below.. in
 low humidity the cursor will move without touching the keyboard. Is
 there anything I can do to help debug/fix this for people (New Mexico
 is pretty much always low humidity)


  In my case, the keypad exhibits too much sensitivity.  Whenever the
  humidity is low, just waving my fingers half an inch above the keypad is
  enough to result in cursor position movement.  And the cursor jumps both
  as I am bringing a finger (through the air) down onto the keypad, AND
  when I am lifting the finger (through the air) away from the keypad.
  [Also, just placing a finger at the mouse buttons at the bottom of the
  keypad is often enough to cause the cursor position to change.]
 
  Leaving the keypad alone (to give it time to self-calibrate) does not
  seem to help.  The four-finger recalibrate works, but its effect soon
  wears off, and the keypad goes back to being too sensitive again.
 
 
  Are there any software parameters that I can play with, to try to
  dampen the unwanted cursor position changes that I'm seeing ?
 
  Thanks,  mikus
 
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 --
 Stephen J Smoogen.

 Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp. Or what's a heaven for?
 -- Robert Browning
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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 116

2010-03-29 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

The Xv support recently introduced seems to be working well. The rest of the
system seems to be doing fine like for the most recent builds.
Anything else worth some extra testing for QA?

Best regards,
Tiago


On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 9:18 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
 http://build.laptop.org/10.2.0/os116

 Compressed image size: 678.37mb (+0.01mb since build 115)

 Description of changes in this build:
  * powerd: fix auto-reconnection after an idle-suspend (#10086)
  * pull F11 updates

 Package changes since build 115:

 -bind-libs-9.6.2-1.fc11.i586
 +bind-libs-9.6.2-2.P1.fc11.i586
 -bind-utils-9.6.2-1.fc11.i586
 +bind-utils-9.6.2-2.P1.fc11.i586
 -olpc-powerd-13-1.fc11.i586
 +olpc-powerd-15-1.fc11.i586
 -openssl-0.9.8k-5.fc11.i686
 +openssl-0.9.8m-1.fc11.i686
 -xapian-bindings-python-1.0.17-2.fc11.i586
 +xapian-bindings-python-1.0.18-1.fc11.i586
 -xapian-core-libs-1.0.17-1.fc11.i586
 +xapian-core-libs-1.0.18-1.fc11.i586
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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 116

2010-03-29 Thread Tiago Marques
That between XOs 1  1.5? I only have one 1.5 to test with.
Or should I use a virtual machine to test os116?

Best regards,
Tiago

On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 11:14 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 09:36:19PM +0100, Tiago Marques wrote:
  The Xv support recently introduced seems to be working well. The rest
  of the system seems to be doing fine like for the most recent builds.
  Anything else worth some extra testing for QA?

 I'd like to know if activity sharing collaboration over wired ethernet
 works.

 --
 James Cameron
 http://quozl.linux.org.au/

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Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO

2010-03-25 Thread Tiago Marques
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 1:26 AM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.comwrote:

 Oh dear. Googling HQTube ended up with the top 2 entries being porn
 sites :-/ I think something needs a project name change :)


Indeed, hence the link in my e-mail, to avoid confusion.



 Anyway, wouldn't there be a problem if we bundled HQTube because
 VLC/Xine/MPlayer would still need licensed codecs to be able to decode
 audio/video streams? (FFmpeg/Gstreamer Ugly). In the case of Flash, at
 least we'd have working sound because it's all good and licensed,
 unlike in the default GNASH install.


I don't think H.264 needs licensed codecs but I'm not sure on that.



 Yeah, actually for the XO-1, I usually used Flashblock on Firefox and
 turn off plugins in Opera because of the limited CPU/Memory  (the
 machine would actually hang in some cases like if you visit a Flash
 Papervision3D site).


I do the same on the XO 1.5



 Aside from that, I also turn off Javascript -- the amount of AJAX used
 on the web these days is simply ridiculous and too much of a resource
 hog. Bash Flash all you want, but AJAX is just as bad.

 Video-wise, I don't think there's much hope with the XO-1 since a lot
 of video is now being streamed in high quality H.264, something which
 brings even faster systems to their knees. If we can get the Adobe
 guys to do some optimization for at least the XO-1.5 (which is where
 deployments are going anyway), that would be a very big thing.


I'll check how well the XO-1 can handle it when I find time to test it out
better.



 You never know, Adobe might actually take the time out to try to fix
 things with the XO-1 and XO-1.5 for hardware acceleration.


I wouldn't rest on that, but one can try.


 Reuben, Ed, I'll try to help you guys on this.

 Tiago, thank you so much for Stallman's ebook link.


You're welcome.

Best regards,
Tiago


 Free as in Freedom is good. Closed-minded Fundamentalism is not.

 Regards,

 -Naz

 --
 carlos nazareno
 http://twitter.com/object404
 http://www.object404.com
 --
 interactive media specialist
 zen graffiti studios
 http://www.zengraffiti.com
 --
 if you don't like the way the world is running,
 then change it instead of just complaining.
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Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO

2010-03-25 Thread Tiago Marques
On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 2:05 AM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:

  I can tell you that youtube is well within reach of both the XO-1 and
 1.5,
  currently (or at least up to build 114), it was running better and faster
 on
  the XO-1 rather than on the XO 1.5 due to the presence of Xv support. The
  problem is that I can only have decent performance by not using Flash but
 by
  using the Firefox Greasemonkey add-on and the HQTube script:
  http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/63509

 I tried to do what you describe -- but that isn't my concept of watching
 YouTube.  The way I ran it, the HQTube script appeared to download the
 entire clip before trying to play that clip -- I prefer to start seeing
 a YouTube clip within seconds of clicking on the internet link for it.


That is configurable by tweaking Gnome Mplayer AFAIK.


 Much worse, with the HQTube script installed, an error popup told me the
 downloaded clip could not be played because I did not have the Sorenson
 Spark codec installed -- Wikipedia says that codec is built-in to Flash,
 but I don't know how to acquire it for whatever HQTube tried to execute.


I haven't tested HQTube script on the Fedora install but on Gentoo it ran
buttery smooth. Will check Fedora soon.



 Xv capability now works on both the F11 XO-1.5 and the F11 XO-1 -- but
 people posting about Flash claim that native Flash needs RGB, whereas
 Xv uses YUV -- therefore native Flash does not invoke Xv acceleration.


Except that some people were claiming that you can get the data accelerated
from Xv back to do the RGB thingy. I can't be sure on that though.



 mikus


 p.s.  On XO-1.5, latest Flash plugin plus latest Firefox still regularly
 gives a slideshow for YouTube, but the result is often tolerable.


My experience exactly.

Best regards,
Tiago
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Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO

2010-03-25 Thread Tiago Marques
Thanks Ben,

That is a big problem. Or is OLPC allowed to ship codecs without issues?

Best regards,
Tiago

On Thu, Mar 25, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz 
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:

 Tiago Marques wrote:
  I don't think H.264 needs licensed codecs but I'm not sure on that.

 H.264 is at the top of MPEG-LA's list of codecs that require patent
 licensing.  All the MPEG codecs are on the list, including MP3 and AAC.

 If you don't want to buy a license, Theora and Vorbis (the Ogg codecs) are
 basically the only game in town.
 --Ben


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Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO

2010-03-24 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

I can tell you that youtube is well within reach of both the XO-1 and 1.5,
currently(or at least up to build 114), it was running better and faster on
the XO-1 rather than on the XO 1.5 due to the presence of Xv support. The
problem is that I can only have decent performance by not using Flash but by
using the Firefox Greasemonkey add-on and the HQTube script:
http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/63509

Flash is more or less a dead end, read
http://blogs.adobe.com/penguin.swf/for some insight.
The guy working on it is complaining of linux APIs and is not using Xv
because he chose not to - or so it seems. He claims that he can't use Xv
because he can't get the video data back from Xv to add RGB stuff that Flash
needs to embed, although some comments claim this is possible.

It would be a huge plus to get the hardware video decoding engine present in
the XO 1.5 working with Flash but after reading the posts, I would say it
would require a lot of effort and lobbying with both Adobe and VIA's
developers(AFAIK there's no interface to the video decoding engine).

I haven't tested Adobe Flash 10.1 yet but I wouldn't expect it to outperform
the 10.0 version - which just plain sucks. It is a resource hogger. The my
world will be a better place when I don't have to use Flash for anything.
Still, Adobe Flash is very important when trying to browse the web on the XO
1.5, as Gnash - at least for me - has had problems reproducing any kind of
content. Having it bundled with the XO 1.5 would be interesting while the
world doesn't move to HTML5 and would be a major plus if another G1G1 ever
occurs.

I'll try to put together a video and images of a demonstration of HQTube
running on both XOs tomorrow. If that can get into Sugar, you'll surely see
a world of video content accessible.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Tomeu Vizoso to...@tomeuvizoso.net wrote:

 On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 15:42, Gabriel Eirea gei...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hello, interesting thread.
 
  FYI: One of our largest deployments and two other smaller deployments
 have
  received approval to ship Adobe Flash in their builds.
 
  In Uruguay, Ceibal started shipping Adobe Flash with their official
  build at the beginning of 2009.
 
  My personal observation is that this came from a high demand on two
  fronts: kids and teachers complaining about youtube and online games
  on one side, and local companies used to develop web pages and such
  that wanted to create content but only had resources to do it in flash
  and complained about gnash being too restrictive on the other side.
 
  As far as I can see, the results are mixed. Playing youtube videos and
  other online music/video players is a big hit. However, the flash
  player performance in the XO is very bad,

 An older release of Flash used to be good enough for youtube:

 http://dev.laptop.org/ticket/5408

 Apparently, they removed Xv support at some point.

 Regards,

 Tomeu

  kids complain that they
  can't play most of the games because characters move very slowly, etc.
  Local companies didn't add much to the content pool and all they can
  do in terms of business plan is get some government agency give them
  money for delivering a message. You can see some examples in:
 
 
 http://www.ceibal.edu.uy/index.php?option=com_contentview=articleid=216Itemid=75
 
  My suggestion would be to use whatever contacts you may have at Adobe
  to communicate that:
 
  1) they have to improve the player's performance on the XO
  2) they have to make developers tools available for the XO
  3) they have to develop a sugar wrapper to run swf files as activities
 
  and if they do that, flash may be a viable alternative for
  deployments. Otherwise it would never be.
 
  All this, IMHO.
 
  Regards,
 
  Gabriel
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Re: Adobe Flash 10.1 + AIR 2.0 on the XO

2010-03-24 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi Carlos,

On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 12:42 AM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.comwrote:

 I don't get it.

 1) Flash is no more evil as Java was years ago when it was closed
 source and it was being taught at universities.

 There is now an open-source SDK (Flex SDK (there's 2 versions, the
 closed source and the open source one)) with which you can produce
 AVM2 SWFs, and you can give away your AS3 sourcecode all you want.

 In fact, if Firefox  Chrome did not exist and let's say the only web
 browsers that existed were closed-source ones like IE, Netscape,
 Opera, Safari, would you say that HTML + Javascript is an
 inappropriate tool for creating learning materials? Because that is
 exactly the same situation.

 Martin's previous arguments about the quality of educational content
 is not a problem with a platform like flash, it is a problem about the
 the content that is being deployed.

 2) You have hundreds of Flash multimedia/game developers that
 outnumber Python game/multimedia developers. Why add an extra layer of
 hassle for them to create content for the XO?

 (I still am not able to get sound running on Gnash on the XO.)

 There are thousands of Java developers in the world today, and for all
 intents and purposes, AS3 has more or less the same syntax as Java.
 JRE is a resource hog compared to Flash,


I would find that hard to believe but haven't compared the two.


 Moreover, Flash has authoring tools which make it very easy to create
 integrated multimedia content (vector/raster graphics, sound,
 keyboard/mouse inputs, etc).


 There's a new flame war going on, HTML5  vs Flash and it's the new
 Macs vs PC, but you won't see Flash dying anytime soon. You want to
 know why? The web is ruled by designers and not developers. You don't
 have to be a real programmer to create interactive rich media
 content for Flash.


Flash is a resource hogger, no doubt about that - in Linux it is even more
so, unfortunately. It also crashes. A lot.

Who is saying that HTML5 won't get similar tools to facilitate development?
I certainly hope so, even if it takes a long time. Adobe will probably be
all over that. If they aren't someone will be.

Still, as I said in the previous e-mail, it probably is good for Flash to be
bundled with the XO 1.5, even if the OSS advocate inside me wants to see it
far away. I'd like to help with that, where I can.

As for open source, I suggest that you read Stallman's Free as in Freedom
book, if you haven't done so:

http://oreilly.com/openbook/freedom/

It will give you some insight into why this fundamentalist movement exists
and why it is a good thing. It certainly was an insightful read for me, even
when I already was an OSS user for more than 5 years.

Best regards,
Tiago



 3) Honestly, I find the reasoning that everything has to be open
 source in order for it to be good for kids. I mean do you have to be a
 mechanic to be able to drive a car? Do you have to be an electrical
 engineer to watch Sesame Street on TV?

 Does a child really need to tinker with the source code of an
 educational game to be able to gain benefits from it? Moreover, I
 think that's asking too much given the fact that even high school
 students have problems grasping BASIC.

 I think this is a case of open source fundamentalism trumping educational
 goals.

 There are hundreds of multimedia authors out there who can create
 content for the XO, but IMHO sugarization  python + python only is a
 gateway that is hampering the availability of content for the XO.

 In a sense, this makes the XO an environment that is just about as
 locked-in as the iPhone.

 Why is allowing additional tools  a new pool of content creators bad for
 OLPC?

 -Naz

 http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/iaep/2009-January/003516.html
 
  (This isn't an official OLPC policy; I didn't talk with anyone at OLPC
  before writing it.)
 
  - Chris.
  --
  Chris Ball   c...@laptop.org
  One Laptop Per Child
 

 --
 carlos nazareno
 http://twitter.com/object404
 http://www.object404.com
 --
 interactive media specialist
 zen graffiti studios
 http://www.zengraffiti.com
 --
 if you don't like the way the world is running,
 then change it instead of just complaining.
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Re: OLPC hardware: what if there was an SDR modem / chipset?

2010-03-09 Thread Tiago Marques
Thanks. The connector for the WLAN card did seem a mini-PCIe but I thought
you were going to stick with SDIO.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:10 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 On Mar 7, 2010, at 10:24 PM, Tiago Marques wrote:

  Hi Wad,

 Been reading some lost e-mails, sorry to be bumping this up.

 On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:35 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:

  On Jan 27, 2010, at 12:17 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

  hi scott, thanks for joining in, here.
 
  On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 3:01 PM, C. Scott Ananian
  csc...@laptop.org wrote:
  Good luck with your SDR dreams.  I think the most you can expect from
  OLPC is that, *if* the 10 improbable things you described actually
  come to pass, OLPC will someday include a miniPCI slot so that they
  can plug in your magic daughtercard.
 
   miniPCI assumes there's a PCI bus.  ARM SoCs don't have PCI (that i
  know of).  the only SoC x86 chip i've heard about is the 1ghz IEC
  100HV from RDC.  but with ARM it'd have to be a mini PCI-e slot with
  the USB2 option - pins 36 and 34 - but that's been ruled out because
  john's removed all internal USB paths.  the next gen x86 clone from
  RDC that they're planning will have full PCI-e.

 Actually, I got that miniPCI connector into XO-1.5.   I won't go into



 You did? I can't find any reference in the XO 1.5 diagrams.
 Is it already being used for something?


 Read the next paragraph I wrote:

  But as with most networking cards, the miniPCI is just a form factor.
 Most WiFi/GSM cards on the market electrically use a USB connection.
 On XO-1.5, we use SDIO, but also provide a spare USB port to the miniPCI
 (why not ?)The form factor is half-length miniPCI, and the pinout
 is documented at: http://wiki.laptop.org/images/0/05/
 XO_1.5_Pinouts_C2.pdf


 CN19 in that document is the PCIe pinout.

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:XO_1.5_C1_Annotated_Motherboard.png
 shows the miniPCIe connector, with a WLAN card attached.

 Cheers,
 wad


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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 111

2010-03-09 Thread Tiago Marques
Hmm... interesting. Thanks. I'll see if I can do that in olpc-update and
send some patches to see if it can be integrated.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:27 PM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 06:24:39PM +, Tiago Marques wrote:
  No easy way to know what has been installed then, I guess.  [...]
  Perhaps trying to diff the yum database somehow.

 You might use rpm to list the database in the previous version
 tree, then use rpm to list the database in the current version tree,
 sort the outputs, and then compare.

 For instance on a test system the package abyssinica-fonts was manually
 removed after olpc-update to os111, yet the previous build rpm database
 is still available:

 # rpm -q abyssinica-fonts
 package abyssinica-fonts is not installed
 # readlink /versions/running
 pristine/fe25e45429bcc3714552316f97e0acad
 # find /versions/run -name Packages
 /versions/run/fe25e45429bcc3714552316f97e0acad/var/lib/rpm/Packages
 /versions/run/0ab47a1d38c3ce22e58a488f6850ac41/var/lib/rpm/Packages
 # rpm --root=/versions/pristine/0ab47a1d38c3ce22e58a488f6850ac41 -q
 abyssinica-fonts
 abyssinica-fonts-1.0-4.fc11.noarch

 So it is possible to generate a package list diff:

 # rpm --root=/versions/run/0ab47a1d38c3ce22e58a488f6850ac41 -qa | sort 
 /tmp/a
 # rpm -qa|sort  /tmp/b
 # diff /tmp/a /tmp/b
 11,13c11,13
  NetworkManager-0.7.2.995-1.git20100202.fc11.i586
  NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.995-1.git20100202.fc11.i586
  NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.995-1.git20100202.fc11.i586
 ---
  NetworkManager-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
  NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
  NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
 26d25
  abyssinica-fonts-1.0-4.fc11.noarch

 [...]

 Based on this you might learn what you have just lost by using
 olpc-update.


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 http://quozl.linux.org.au/

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Re: OLPC hardware: what if there was an SDR modem / chipset?

2010-03-09 Thread Tiago Marques
I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
So you can only fit those Marvell WLAN modules there or if needed, can you
switch to another one down the line?
Do you have an idea of per unit manufacturing costs for the XO 1.5?

Best regards,
Tiago


On Tue, Mar 9, 2010 at 5:58 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 On Mar 9, 2010, at 11:22 AM, Tiago Marques wrote:

  Thanks. The connector for the WLAN card did seem a mini-PCIe but I thought
 you were going to stick with SDIO.


 We did.  Don't confuse a connector with the bus used
 with it.   Many WLAN cards these days use a miniPCIe
 connector/form factor but use USB as the interconnect.
 We provide both USB and SDIO to the connector, but
 only use SDIO.

 Cheers,
 wad


  On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 10:10 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Mar 7, 2010, at 10:24 PM, Tiago Marques wrote:

 Hi Wad,

 Been reading some lost e-mails, sorry to be bumping this up.

 On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:35 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Jan 27, 2010, at 12:17 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

  hi scott, thanks for joining in, here.
 
  On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 3:01 PM, C. Scott Ananian
  csc...@laptop.org wrote:
  Good luck with your SDR dreams.  I think the most you can expect from
  OLPC is that, *if* the 10 improbable things you described actually
  come to pass, OLPC will someday include a miniPCI slot so that they
  can plug in your magic daughtercard.
 
   miniPCI assumes there's a PCI bus.  ARM SoCs don't have PCI (that i
  know of).  the only SoC x86 chip i've heard about is the 1ghz IEC
  100HV from RDC.  but with ARM it'd have to be a mini PCI-e slot with
  the USB2 option - pins 36 and 34 - but that's been ruled out because
  john's removed all internal USB paths.  the next gen x86 clone from
  RDC that they're planning will have full PCI-e.

 Actually, I got that miniPCI connector into XO-1.5.   I won't go into


 You did? I can't find any reference in the XO 1.5 diagrams.
 Is it already being used for something?

 Read the next paragraph I wrote:

 But as with most networking cards, the miniPCI is just a form factor.
 Most WiFi/GSM cards on the market electrically use a USB connection.
 On XO-1.5, we use SDIO, but also provide a spare USB port to the miniPCI
 (why not ?)The form factor is half-length miniPCI, and the pinout
 is documented at: http://wiki.laptop.org/images/0/05/
 XO_1.5_Pinouts_C2.pdf

 CN19 in that document is the PCIe pinout.

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Image:XO_1.5_C1_Annotated_Motherboard.png
 shows the miniPCIe connector, with a WLAN card attached.

 Cheers,
 wad




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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 111

2010-03-08 Thread Tiago Marques
I see.
No easy way to know what has been installed then, I guess.
I'll stick to what Paul suggests.

Would it be any use of doing it right for deployments? I could look into
it a bit deeper if it would. Perhaps trying to diff the yum database
somehow.

Best regards

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 5:02 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 04:52:28AM +, Tiago Marques wrote:
  I don't know what olpc-update is doing in the backstage, is it restoring
 a
  pre-defined database or diffs?

 It is rsync'ing a filesystem tree from updates.laptop.org to your
 laptop, and then configuring next boot to use it.  It uses the current
 operating system build as the initial filesystem before the rsync, so
 that only the changes are copied across the network.

 --
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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 111

2010-03-07 Thread Tiago Marques
Using olpc-update is failing on me, from 108:

@ERROR: unknown module 'build-10.2_xo1.5-111': Command
'['/usr/bin/fakeroot', '-i',
'/home/upserv/builds/build-10.2_xo1.5-1...@5t8aaq/fakeroot.state', '-s',
'/home/upserv/builds/build-10.2_xo1.5-1...@5t8aaq/fakeroot.state', '--',
'python2.5', '-c', from upserv import as_root_extract_build;
as_root_extract_build('/home/upserv/builds/build-10.2_xo1.5-1...@5t8aaq
/tmp','/home/upserv/builds/build-10.2_xo1.5-1...@5t8aaq
/root','/home/upserv/builds/build-10.2_xo1.5-1...@5t8aaq
/build.tar.lzma','/home/upserv/builds/build-10.2_xo1.5-1...@5t8aaq/contents')]'
returned non-zero exit status 1
rsync error: error starting client-server protocol (code 5) at main.c(1503)
[receiver=3.0.6]

This is supposed to work or should I flash from USB?

Hmm... 109 gave me the same error.
Isn't this the command?

olpc-update 10.2_xo1.5-111

Best regards,
Tiago

On Sat, Mar 6, 2010 at 12:09 AM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/F11_for_1.5
 http://build.laptop.org/10.2.0/os111

 Compressed image size: 678.73mb (+1.72mb since build 110)

 Description of changes in this build:
  * Shrink image sizes some more, for smaller SD cards.
  * Preparation for switching from ohmd to powerd (#10036)
  * Increase tmpfs size (#9979)
  * Pull F11 updates.
  * Pull new kernel, including some new camera options (#9853)

 Package changes since build 110:

 -NetworkManager-0.7.2.995-1.git20100202.fc11.i586
 +NetworkManager-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
 -NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.995-1.git20100202.fc11.i586
 +NetworkManager-glib-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
 -NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.995-1.git20100202.fc11.i586
 +NetworkManager-gnome-0.7.2.995-2.git20100225.fc11.i586
 -binutils-2.19.51.0.14-1.fc11.i586
 +binutils-2.19.51.0.14-3.fc11.i586
 -bitfrost-1.0.6-1.fc11.i586
 +bitfrost-1.0.7-1.fc11.i586
 -cpio-2.9.90-6.fc11.i586
 +cpio-2.9.90-7.fc11.i586
 -cups-libs-1.4.2-20.fc11.i586
 +cups-libs-1.4.2-23.fc11.i586
 -curl-7.19.7-4.fc11.i586
 +curl-7.19.7-5.fc11.i586
 -elfutils-libelf-0.144-1.fc11.i586
 +elfutils-libelf-0.145-1.fc11.i586
 -firefox-3.5.6-1.fc11.i586
 +firefox-3.5.8-1.fc11.i586
 -ghostscript-8.70-2.fc11.i586
 +ghostscript-8.71-4.fc11.i586
 -glibmm24-2.20.0-2.fc11.i586
 +glibmm24-2.20.2-1.fc11.i586
 -gnash-0.8.6-9.fc11.i586
 +gnash-0.8.7-1.fc11.i586
 -gnash-plugin-0.8.6-9.fc11.i586
 +gnash-plugin-0.8.7-1.fc11.i586
 -gzip-1.3.12-10.fc11.i586
 +gzip-1.3.12-11.fc11.i586
 -hulahop-0.4.9-11.fc11.i586
 +hulahop-0.4.9-12.fc11.i586
 -kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100127.1842.1.olpc.ee37899.i586
 +kernel-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100301.1340.1.olpc.2671e48.i586
 -kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100127.1842.1.olpc.ee37899.i586
 +kernel-firmware-2.6.31_xo1.5-20100301.1340.1.olpc.2671e48.i586
 -libcurl-7.19.7-4.fc11.i586
 +libcurl-7.19.7-5.fc11.i586
 -libpurple-2.6.5-1.fc11.i586
 +libpurple-2.6.6-1.fc11.i586
 -python-lxml-2.2.2-1.fc11.i586
 +python-lxml-2.2.5-1.fc11.i586
 -sos-1.8-21.fc11.noarch
 +sos-1.9-1.fc11.noarch
 -sudo-1.7.1-4.fc11.i586
 +sudo-1.7.2p5-1.fc11.i586
 -sugar-0.84.10-1.fc11.i586
 +sugar-0.84.11-1.fc11.i586
 -tzdata-2009u-1.fc11.noarch
 +tzdata-2010c-1.fc11.noarch
 -xkeyboard-config-1.5-7.fc11.noarch
 +xkeyboard-config-1.5-8.fc11.noarch
 -xulrunner-1.9.1.6-1.fc11.i586
 +xulrunner-1.9.1.8-1.fc11.i586
 -xulrunner-python-1.9.1.6-1.fc11.i586
 +xulrunner-python-1.9.1.8-1.fc11.i586
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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 111

2010-03-07 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi Chris,

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 1:23 AM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 Hi Tiago,

Using olpc-update is failing on me, from 108:

 Could you try again?  Think I fixed it, but not sure.


Seems ok, is performing incremental rsync right now. Thanks!

One other thing I wanted to ask but keep forgetting. Is it possible to do
these incremental updates but keep the packages I installed by hand somehow?
Every time I update I must reinstall them. Sometimes it's handy to have some
customization.

Best regards,
Tiago


 Thanks,

 - Chris.
 --
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Re: OLPC hardware: what if there was an SDR modem / chipset?

2010-03-07 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi Wad,

Been reading some lost e-mails, sorry to be bumping this up.

On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 10:35 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:


 On Jan 27, 2010, at 12:17 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:

  hi scott, thanks for joining in, here.
 
  On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 3:01 PM, C. Scott Ananian
  csc...@laptop.org wrote:
  Good luck with your SDR dreams.  I think the most you can expect from
  OLPC is that, *if* the 10 improbable things you described actually
  come to pass, OLPC will someday include a miniPCI slot so that they
  can plug in your magic daughtercard.
 
   miniPCI assumes there's a PCI bus.  ARM SoCs don't have PCI (that i
  know of).  the only SoC x86 chip i've heard about is the 1ghz IEC
  100HV from RDC.  but with ARM it'd have to be a mini PCI-e slot with
  the USB2 option - pins 36 and 34 - but that's been ruled out because
  john's removed all internal USB paths.  the next gen x86 clone from
  RDC that they're planning will have full PCI-e.

 Actually, I got that miniPCI connector into XO-1.5.   I won't go into


You did? I can't find any reference in the XO 1.5 diagrams. Is it already
being used for something?

Best regards,
Tiago


 all
 the tradeoffs.  It suffices to say that when the overall lifetime
 costs of
 100K laptops are considered, it didn't increase the cost.

 But as with most networking cards, the miniPCI is just a form factor.
 Most WiFi/GSM cards on the market electrically use a USB connection.
 On XO-1.5, we use SDIO, but also provide a spare USB port to the miniPCI
 (why not ?)The form factor is half-length miniPCI, and the pinout
 is documented at: http://wiki.laptop.org/images/0/05/
 XO_1.5_Pinouts_C2.pdf

  thank you for everyone's time, i'll be back again when i have more
  concrete news.

 Great.

 Cheers,
 wad
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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 111

2010-03-07 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:40 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 01:45:30AM +, Tiago Marques wrote:
  One other thing I wanted to ask but keep forgetting. Is it possible to
  do these incremental updates but keep the packages I installed by hand
  somehow?

 No.

 You could avoid olpc-update and use yum instead, at the risk of not
 testing the build, build-time customisations, and first-boot scripting.
 Effectively you'd only be testing the packaged changes.


I'm here for the full ride :)



 You could also keep a personal cache of the packages you install, in
 /home/olpc


It's what I end up doing, which doesn't mean I don't keep forgetting it now
and then.
I don't know what olpc-update is doing in the backstage, is it restoring a
pre-defined database or diffs?

Best regards,
Tiago



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Re: New XO-1.5 10.2.0 build 111

2010-03-07 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 4:01 AM, Paul Fox p...@laptop.org wrote:

 james wrote:
   On Mon, Mar 08, 2010 at 01:45:30AM +, Tiago Marques wrote:
One other thing I wanted to ask but keep forgetting. Is it possible to
do these incremental updates but keep the packages I installed by hand
somehow?
  
   No.

 actually, i think something like this did make it in.  i haven't
 used it in a long time (since 8., but #6432 seems to imply that
 rpms in /home/olpc/.custom/rpms will get installed on the first
 reboot after an olpc-update.


Hmmm... must try that! Not perfect but will work for me.

Best regards,
Tiago


 paul

  
   You could avoid olpc-update and use yum instead, at the risk of not
   testing the build, build-time customisations, and first-boot scripting.
   Effectively you'd only be testing the packaged changes.
  
   You could also keep a personal cache of the packages you install, in
   /home/olpc
  
   --
   James Cameron
   http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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 =-
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Re: Sugar window managing UI

2010-01-06 Thread Tiago Marques
The very long time is hard to get rid of, at least on the XO 1. As far
as I can tell, the biggest problem is that ALT-TAB cycles through the
apps by the order they were open and not in the order by which they
were last accessed(which is non standard behaviour nowadays) and which
causes problems especially if you're swapping, as it will frequently
cycle through an unused, disk swapped app.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:12 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:
 What I hate about the Sugar window managing UI is:
 a) _very_ long switching time
 b) there's no way to switch to a specific window (=activity instance),
 I need to cycle through all of them with Alt+Tab

 For me, the Alt+Tab switch time on the XO is around one second (or less)
 to the next window.  Becomes burdensome only when there are *many*
 windows to cycle through - and it is rare that I have many open.

 There was a long discussion about this way back when (I don't have a
 cite).  [For each switch, the OLPC developers wanted indication in the
 Neighborhood View of the *other* users as to the window (i.e., Activity)
 in which *this* user now participated.]  The developers suggested, when
 there are many windows open, not using Alt+Tab but instead clicking __in
 the Frame__ on the icon of the specific window to be switched to.

 With the availability nowadays of 'Tabs' in Terminal (and in browsers),
  I'm switching much more often *within* an application than *between*
 applications.  In Terminal, Ctl+Shift+Horizontal_Arrow switches quickly.

 mikus

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Re: Sugar window managing UI

2010-01-06 Thread Tiago Marques
Indeed, it would probably also be a good addition!

Best regards,
Tiago

On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 6:12 PM, Sascha Silbe
sascha-ml-sugar-olpc-de...@silbe.org wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 06, 2010 at 06:07:56PM +, Tiago Marques wrote:

 The very long time is hard to get rid of, at least on the XO 1. As far
 as I can tell, the biggest problem is that ALT-TAB cycles through the
 apps by the order they were open and not in the order by which they
 were last accessed(which is non standard behaviour nowadays) and which
 causes problems especially if you're swapping, as it will frequently
 cycle through an unused, disk swapped app.

 Which gets us back to the keyboard shortcuts for individual windows
 (activity instances). :)

 CU Sascha

 --
 http://sascha.silbe.org/
 http://www.infra-silbe.de/
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Re: XO-3 official

2009-12-23 Thread Tiago Marques
Perhaps a 2GHz quad-core? ARM Cortex-A9 is already dual core and up to 2GHz.

Best regards

On Wed, Dec 23, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Rafael Enrique Ortiz Guerrero
dir...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi All.

 8-ghz processor ?.


 Rafael Ortiz



 On Tue, Dec 22, 2009 at 4:23 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
 bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/22/tablet-computer-negroponte-technology-cio-network-olpc.html

 It aims to make its tablet PC highly durable, all plastic, waterproof,
 half the thickness of an iPhone and use less than a watt of power, despite
 an 8-gigaherz processor. The price: an unprecedented $75.

 Well, that's cool.

 Deciphering OLPC press releases sometimes feels like I'm playing chess
 with Picasso, and he keeps breaking the rules, and I can't tell whether
 this is some kind of art or he's just cheating.

 --Ben


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B2 WLAN ECO questions

2009-12-19 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi all,

In an effort to migrate testing to a machine that resembles something
like the C1, I would like to perform the WLAN ECO(s) on the B2 1.5.
However, I found one for the B2 models and another for the B3:

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO1.5_WLAN_SR_ECO
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO1.5_WLAN_power_ECO

Do I only need to do the XO1.5_WLAN_power_ECO, or does the SR ECO also
apply to the B2? From the wiki page it seems a B3 problem only but
AFAIK the B3 is B2+ ECOs, so it would need it too. What am I missing?

Best regards,
Tiago
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Re: #9865: Laptop hangs on resume

2009-12-12 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 5:01 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 04:26:52AM +, Tiago Marques wrote:
 One question, leaving it idling will leave always suspended, right?

 Yes.

 Is there any kind of program that can wakeup the laptop from time to
 time when it's suspended?

 Yes, there is.

 However if you use that method of resuming the event is reported
 differently and ohmd will have different input data, so it isn't as true
 a test as using your finger on the touchpad or keyboard.

Ok, I see. I have an USB ethernet adapter around here, will use it
instead of wireless then.


 Also, you won't be watching it to look for the problem of the screen
 image not being visible despite the power being on.

 I think perhaps for this particular bug, being a combination of so many
 components, it might be more important to use human interaction.

 If you are wanting to suspend and resume while you are not there to
 watch it, check out:

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XO1.5_SD_suspend#Automating_resumes

Ok, thanks. Will mix it up when I'm not close to the machine.

Best regards,
Tiago


 --
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 http://quozl.linux.org.au/

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Re: #9865: Laptop hangs on resume

2009-12-11 Thread Tiago Marques
I have disabled suspend due to the wireless thing with B2s and haven't
had time to do the ECO fix. Will leave it idling tonight and a fews
days with suspend on to see what gives.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:19 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:

 Saw the IRC log from the bug triage meeting.

 Is anyone really testing using an OS greater  OS54 ?
 It happens readily on a B2 (if you enable suspend/resume).
 The only way this one isn't a blocker is if we disable
 suspend/resume by default.

 Richard and I both see this hang our machine multiple
 times a day as we sit there debugging other issues.

 Please don't expect us to debug it.   We are completely busy
 working through production test issues.

 Cheers,
 wad

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Re: #9865: Laptop hangs on resume

2009-12-11 Thread Tiago Marques
One question, leaving it idling will leave always suspended, right? Is
there any kind of program that can wakeup the laptop from time to time
when it's suspended? AFAIK he doesn't suspend itself when something is
running on the CPU(dunno the criteria for no-suspend) but is it
possible to interrupt its sleep in a timed fashion?

Best regards,
Tiago


On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 4:16 AM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:
 I have disabled suspend due to the wireless thing with B2s and haven't
 had time to do the ECO fix. Will leave it idling tonight and a fews
 days with suspend on to see what gives.

 Best regards,
 Tiago

 On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 11:19 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:

 Saw the IRC log from the bug triage meeting.

 Is anyone really testing using an OS greater  OS54 ?
 It happens readily on a B2 (if you enable suspend/resume).
 The only way this one isn't a blocker is if we disable
 suspend/resume by default.

 Richard and I both see this hang our machine multiple
 times a day as we sit there debugging other issues.

 Please don't expect us to debug it.   We are completely busy
 working through production test issues.

 Cheers,
 wad

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Re: side/side batt. life in suspend

2009-12-07 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:00 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 05, 2009 at 06:56:58PM +, Tiago Marques wrote:
 I went to the wiki yesterday and found the information that the
 LiFePO4 batteries have 2 or 4 cells, rated at 22Watt hours. Is this
 rating the same or is it half of that with 2 cell models?

 I think that is unlikely, but I don't know.

 From my battery it seems it's 22 Wh since it's rated at 6.5v @
 3100mAh. Am I right?

 I'm not sure.  6.5V at 3100mA is 20.15W.

 Perhaps the mAh information should also go in the wiki?

 It's a Wiki, that means you are responsible for editing it.  That's
 where the discussion can then occur.

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Laptop_Batteries does have mAh rating already.
 You didn't say which Wiki page you were looking at.

I was looking at the XO 1.5 Hardware page. Thanks for the link, that
one was definitely more informative.

Best regards,
Tiago


 --
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 http://quozl.linux.org.au/

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Fwd: side/side batt. life in suspend

2009-12-07 Thread Tiago Marques
-- Forwarded message --
From: Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: side/side batt. life in suspend
To: Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org


On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 5:16 AM, Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org wrote:
 On 12/06/2009 09:00 PM, James Cameron wrote:

 On Sat, Dec 05, 2009 at 06:56:58PM +, Tiago Marques wrote:

 I went to the wiki yesterday and found the information that the
 LiFePO4 batteries have 2 or 4 cells, rated at 22Watt hours. Is this
 rating the same or is it half of that with 2 cell models?

 I think that is unlikely, but I don't know.

 Batteries can have n number of cells where n = (Output voltage / Cell
 voltage) * number of strings in parallel.

 OLPC batteries have 2 cells in series with a nominal cell voltage of 3.25V.

  From my battery it seems it's 22 Wh since it's rated at 6.5v @
 3100mAh. Am I right?

 No.

 I'm not sure.  6.5V at 3100mA is 20.15W.


 Here is where I repeat my power mantra that power numbers must include a
 _specific_ load case or they are wrong.  Mfg test specifications are only
 valid under mfg test conditions.

 In our case the mAh rating is for a discharge current of .5C (aprox 1.5A)
 less than that you get more mAh, more than that you get less mAh.

 Plus you can't do a straight V * I = W calculation because the V of the
 battery decreases as you use it so Wh calculations have be iterative.


I see. So when OEMs quote a number, it's not something exactly accurate also?

Best regards.

 --
 Richard A. Smith  rich...@laptop.org
 One Laptop per Child

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Re: side/side batt. life in suspend

2009-12-07 Thread Tiago Marques
I see. Thanks for your input.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org wrote:
 On 12/07/2009 10:20 AM, Tiago Marques wrote:


 I see. So when OEMs quote a number, it's not something exactly accurate
 also?

 Depends on how they measured it.  Some mfgs will give you Wh for the cell in
 the specs but most just give you mAh.  mAh is easier to compute.

 --
 Richard A. Smith  rich...@laptop.org
 One Laptop per Child

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Re: side/side batt. life in suspend

2009-12-05 Thread Tiago Marques
These are excellent news!
How many cells do current shipping batteries have?(out of curiosity)

Best regards,
Tiago Marques

On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 8:08 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:

 The second test was similar:
 XO-1:  9h 5m
 XO-1.5: 12h 40m

 On Dec 3, 2009, at 11:52 AM, John Watlington wrote:

 I'll be repeating this test, but the first pass was encouraging.
 The battery life when the laptop is suspended (but running
 the backlight and the WLAN) of an XO-1 and an XO-1.5 were
 compared.

 The XO-1 lasted 10h 20m.
 The XO-1.5 lasted 12h 15m.

 WLAN wakeups were disabled on the XO-1 to even the playing
 field, as the build I was using on the XO-1.5 (os48) doesn't have
 them yet.

 Cheers,
 wad


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Re: side/side batt. life in suspend

2009-12-05 Thread Tiago Marques
I went to the wiki yesterday and found the information that the
LiFePO4 batteries have 2 or 4 cells, rated at 22Watt hours. Is this
rating the same or is it half of that with 2 cell models? From my
battery it seems it's 22 Wh since it's rated at 6.5v @ 3100mAh. Am I
right?
Perhaps the mAh information should also go in the wiki?

Best regards,
Tiago Marques

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:
 These are excellent news!
 How many cells do current shipping batteries have?(out of curiosity)

 Battery specs easily found on the wiki ;-) -- the batteries aren't
 changing from xo-1 to xo-1.5



 m
 --
  martin.langh...@gmail.com
  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
  - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

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Re: New F11 for XO-1.5 build 47

2009-11-30 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:07 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Nov 29, 2009, at 1:21 PM, Tiago Marques wrote:

 On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 Hi,

   You can also disable it using My Settings - Power - Automatic
   power management.

 (Cool, I didn't think that would work yet!  But it does.)

 I also confirm that it disables well that way.

 /proc/cpuinfo isn't showing any change in processor clock to 400MHz,
 or anywhere below 1GHz. How can I confirm that it is underclocking?

 Try running powertop (yum install powertop), to see what amount of time
 the processor is spending in each C-state.  The frequency scaling should
 be automatic as well.   The C-7M is a strange beast, in that it already runs
 at minimum voltage (0.798V) constantly, and it scales the frequency
 continuously (since there are no corresponding voltage changes) as well.

 These are applied constantly --- the automatic power management
 turns on the more aggressive suspend resume using the display controller.


Hmmm... I see. So there won't be any interfaces to kernel ACPI power
management like the rest of the laptop hardware out there? I thought
that the XO 1.5 was going to support the regular ACPI stuff, hence my
surprise.

Best regards,
Tiago Marques

 Cheers,
 wad


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Re: New F11 for XO-1.5 build 47

2009-11-30 Thread Tiago Marques
By the way, powertop was indeed showing it spending almost all cpu time in C4.

Best regards

On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 5:03 PM, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Nov 30, 2009 at 4:07 PM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:

 On Nov 29, 2009, at 1:21 PM, Tiago Marques wrote:

 On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote:

 Hi,

   You can also disable it using My Settings - Power - Automatic
   power management.

 (Cool, I didn't think that would work yet!  But it does.)

 I also confirm that it disables well that way.

 /proc/cpuinfo isn't showing any change in processor clock to 400MHz,
 or anywhere below 1GHz. How can I confirm that it is underclocking?

 Try running powertop (yum install powertop), to see what amount of time
 the processor is spending in each C-state.  The frequency scaling should
 be automatic as well.   The C-7M is a strange beast, in that it already runs
 at minimum voltage (0.798V) constantly, and it scales the frequency
 continuously (since there are no corresponding voltage changes) as well.

 These are applied constantly --- the automatic power management
 turns on the more aggressive suspend resume using the display controller.


 Hmmm... I see. So there won't be any interfaces to kernel ACPI power
 management like the rest of the laptop hardware out there? I thought
 that the XO 1.5 was going to support the regular ACPI stuff, hence my
 surprise.

 Best regards,
 Tiago Marques

 Cheers,
 wad



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Re: B3 with different RAM chips

2009-11-29 Thread Tiago Marques
Thanks, I'm aware of that. For this particular card it is either
defective or the XO is causing errors since it is barely 3 months old
and hasn't seen much use. It is gathering a good amount of errors by
writing 1-2GiB randomly, so I hope I don't need to go as far as
writing almost 1TiB before I find the problem.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Sun, Nov 29, 2009 at 3:47 AM, John Watlington w...@laptop.org wrote:

 Be aware that the test.sh script tends to be destructive to the device.
 If a device is close to failing (which is when you start seeing
 a larger number of errors), they will push it over the edge quickly.

 Some less reliable cards fail after as little as 900 GB written.

 Cheers,
 wad

 On Nov 28, 2009, at 1:31 AM, Richard A. Smith wrote:


 Can you provide me with the software or scripts you use to do your
 internal SD card testing? I would love to put this card and the other
 more reliable SanDisk one I have to find out if it is a problem with
 the 1.5 card reader or the SD cards.

 It's the same scripts used for NAND testing.

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/NAND_Testing

 Git repo:

 http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/wad/NANDtest/

 --
 Richard A. Smith  rich...@laptop.org
 One Laptop per Child


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Re: SD card in XO-1.5 external slot

2009-11-28 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 12:06 PM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:
 Have you directed OpenFirmware to write to this filesystem since it was
 created with mke2fs?

 I'm not sure of what you are thinking about.  The only time I
 explicitly ask OFW to write anything is to the internal SD card,
 when I do 'fs-update' to install a new build.  Other than that, if
 OFW ever writes anything (especially to the external SD card), it
 would be doing so without my knowledge.

Same here, only used openfirmware with the internal card.

Tiago


 mikus

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Re: SD card in XO-1.5 external slot

2009-11-28 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 9:06 AM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 5:00 AM, Mikus Grinbergs mi...@bga.com wrote:
 me, or the hardware, or the software -- but I've had to run 'fsck'
 several times this November on my XO-1.5's SD card -- because of
 significant corruption of the (ext2) filesystem on that card.

 Makes sense. Due to a problem in how / was being mounted  chrooted
 into, we never completed the unmount at shutdown time. When this was
 happening, our / was also 'dirty' but ext3 journal magic hides that.

 Daniel fixed this -- and the fix should be in the recent builds. Does
 it continue to happen with current builds?

Current builds means it was fixed in kernel, right?

Best regards,
Tiago




 m
 --
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  mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
  - ask interesting questions
  - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
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Re: B3 with different RAM chips

2009-11-28 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi Richard,

Thanks, I'll have a go at them and report back.

Best regards,
Tiago

On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 6:31 AM, Richard A. Smith rich...@laptop.org wrote:

 Can you provide me with the software or scripts you use to do your
 internal SD card testing? I would love to put this card and the other
 more reliable SanDisk one I have to find out if it is a problem with
 the 1.5 card reader or the SD cards.

 It's the same scripts used for NAND testing.

 http://wiki.laptop.org/go/NAND_Testing

 Git repo:

 http://dev.laptop.org/git/users/wad/NANDtest/

 --
 Richard A. Smith  rich...@laptop.org
 One Laptop per Child

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Re: 3D acceleration

2009-11-28 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 8:34 AM, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote:
 On 28/11/2009, at 11:18 AM, Tiago Marques wrote:
 Well... it seems VIA has people working on 3D support but no one seems
 to want to review the code...

 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=62692B81D079DA49BA9287A3CDF6B41C9FD818%40exchtp12.taipei.via.com.twforum_name=dri-devel

 It doesn't look like there is anyone who is intentionally avoiding review of 
 the code, but in that mailing list there has not yet been any clear merge of 
 the code.  Can we test this code in our kernel on the olpc-2.6 repository?  
 Is it sensible to try to merge it with our 2.6.31 source?  Is this something 
 you can test for us?

I can test it out, no problem. The only issue is that this seems more
important for support of the actual 3D driver than the actual 3D
driver. Don't know how far VIA is pertaining the work on the 3D level.
IMHO, it is quite sad that they're paying an employee to get the code
merged and the person is apparently being ignored. The lack of time by
the maintainer certainly doesn't help Linux out on hardware support...

Best regards
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Re: 3D acceleration

2009-11-28 Thread Tiago Marques
Hi Daniel,

On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Daniel Drake d...@laptop.org wrote:
 2009/11/28 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com:
 Well... it seems VIA has people working on 3D support but no one seems
 to want to review the code...

 http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=62692B81D079DA49BA9287A3CDF6B41C9FD818%40exchtp12.taipei.via.com.twforum_name=dri-devel

 I don't see any indication that this code is for VX855, neither that
 this has anything to do with 3D.

It seems to be DRM code necessary to support 3D in the actual driver.
Am I wrong?

Best regards


 Daniel

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