RE: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
-Original Message- From: dextrose-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org [mailto:dextrose- boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Bernie Innocenti Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 2:34 AM To: Sridhar Dhanapalan Cc: OLPC Devel; OLPC Australia list; Dextrose Subject: Re: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 15:50 +1000, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: (sorry - sending again because I had the wrong address for the olpc devel list) Firefox 3.5 is being EOLed by Mozilla[0] and Google is dropping support for it[1]. In 10.1.3 this is default Web browser in GNOME and the backend of the Browse activity, so we should be thinking of what that means for us. The plan for Australia is to have a Fedora 14 build (based on DX12) ready by January. F14 comes with Firefox 3.6, which is the oldest version supported by Mozilla and Google. What would be even better is to have Firefox 4 available. By January, Firefox 3.6 will be quite old and close to EOL. Firefox 4 is a fair bit faster than 3.6, allowing us to squeeze extra performance out of our XOs. There is a yum repository for F14[2]. I use this on my F14 work machine (albeit in x86_64), and I've had no problem. Browse continues to work in Sugar. Are there any thoughts/plans about including Firefox 4 in the OLPC/DX OS? There was some discussion at EduJam. Browse is currently unmaintained, but Simon Schampijer and Gonzalo Odiard expressed interest in working on it. There was the question of missing support for the Python bindings of GtkMozEmbed, but the problem appears to be solved now. What is the solution? david In the longer term, there's also the option of switching to Surf, an alternative browser based on WebKit which promises to be faster and less memory hungry than Browse. This depends on Lucian Branescu (or someone else) resuming the work on it. Migrating to Surf wasn't feasible with Fedora 11 because too many of WebKitGtk's dependencies were missing. -- Bernie Innocenti Sugar Labs Infrastructure Team http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Infrastructure_Team ___ Dextrose mailing list dextr...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/dextrose ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
On 5 June 2011 17:02, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Fedora 14 is still shipping xulrunner 1.9.2, which is roughly equivalent to the version used by Firefox 3.6. Backporting things from Fedora 15 is going to be a royal pain in the ass, since they have switched everything to Gnome 3. Does that mean that with FF4 installed, Browse is still working because it is (equivalently) using FF3.6 as the backend? Would that mean that if we were to upgrade to FF4, we would have a disparity in rendering between GNOME and Sugar? Thanks, Sridhar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
-Original Message- From: Sridhar Dhanapalan [mailto:srid...@laptop.org.au] Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2011 3:42 AM To: Bernie Innocenti Cc: David Farning; OLPC Devel; OLPC Australia list; Dextrose Subject: Re: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending On 5 June 2011 17:02, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Fedora 14 is still shipping xulrunner 1.9.2, which is roughly equivalent to the version used by Firefox 3.6. Backporting things from Fedora 15 is going to be a royal pain in the ass, since they have switched everything to Gnome 3. Does that mean that with FF4 installed, Browse is still working because it is (equivalently) using FF3.6 as the backend? FF3.6 and xulrunner 1.9.2 are based on the same code base FF4 and xulrunner 2.0 are based on the same code base When you install FF4 on Fedora14 there will be two versions of xulrunner installed. Would that mean that if we were to upgrade to FF4, we would have a disparity in rendering between GNOME and Sugar? The issues becomes one of cost benefit. What is the cost of OLPC, AC, or individual deployments supporting a version of xulrunner which is not supported or QAed by fedora vs. the benefit of having ff4 in the os. My guess is that the cost will exceed the benefit. So AC will not back port, QA, or support ff4 on DX12 unless someone else takes the lead. But the beauty of a community project is that if anyone else thinks that benefit is greater than the cost they are welcome and encouraged to 'make it happen.' From AC's point of view. The biggest request is for stability and predictable over features and performance. david ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
On 5 June 2011 12:07, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com wrote: Would that mean that if we were to upgrade to FF4, we would have a disparity in rendering between GNOME and Sugar? The issues becomes one of cost benefit. What is the cost of OLPC, AC, or individual deployments supporting a version of xulrunner which is not supported or QAed by fedora vs. the benefit of having ff4 in the os. My guess is that the cost will exceed the benefit. So AC will not back port, QA, or support ff4 on DX12 unless someone else takes the lead. But the beauty of a community project is that if anyone else thinks that benefit is greater than the cost they are welcome and encouraged to 'make it happen.' From AC's point of view. The biggest request is for stability and predictable over features and performance. I've been doing more thinking about it, and I came to the same conclusion. We've got enough to chew on in our development, so let's stick with what the Fedora Project have already tested and released. We need that stable base to build on. Sridhar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 8:02 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org wrote: (hey, is the clock of your computer set correctly? your message appears to be one day old!) On Sat, 2011-06-04 at 20:37 -0400, David Farning wrote: There was some discussion at EduJam. Browse is currently unmaintained, but Simon Schampijer and Gonzalo Odiard expressed interest in working on it. There was the question of missing support for the Python bindings of GtkMozEmbed, but the problem appears to be solved now. What is the solution? Ubuntu Natty ships a new version of python-gtkmozembed, which is based on xulrunner 2.0. Fedora 15 also has xulrunner 2.0, with Python bindings. Fedora 14 is still shipping xulrunner 1.9.2, which is roughly equivalent to the version used by Firefox 3.6. Backporting things from Fedora 15 is going to be a royal pain in the ass, since they have switched everything to Gnome 3. Its not roughly equivalent it is the version being used by FF 3.6. In terms of Firefox 4 in Fedora 14 your correct that it will be a pain, but not really due to gnome 3. FF4 still uses gtk2. The problem is all the gnome deps that use xulrunner that would need porting as well. I personally believe that it would be less work to move Fedora 15! Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 17:42 +1000, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On 5 June 2011 17:02, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Fedora 14 is still shipping xulrunner 1.9.2, which is roughly equivalent to the version used by Firefox 3.6. Backporting things from Fedora 15 is going to be a royal pain in the ass, since they have switched everything to Gnome 3. Does that mean that with FF4 installed, Browse is still working because it is (equivalently) using FF3.6 as the backend? Would that mean that if we were to upgrade to FF4, we would have a disparity in rendering between GNOME and Sugar? Yes. Since version 3.5 (iirc), Firefox comes with its own forked version of xulrunner. The system-wide copy of xulrunner is distinct from the one bundled with the Firefox package. Same for nspr (the Netscape portable runtime) and nss (the netscape SSL implementation). And if you happen to use Thunderbird, you've even got a third copy of all these libraries in your system. No, xulrunner wasn't forked and the firefox package in Fedora uses the system xulrunner. In the case of the repo with FF4 there's a xulrunner2 package and all the libraries and names of the package when built have been changed. To use it you have to change the way the xulrunner app links to which version/name of the underlying xulrunner. Following the best traditions of Windows applications, Firefox and Thunderbird will store passwords, proxy settings and file associations in two different locations. No idea about windows nor thunderbird but firefox 3.x and 4 will both use the same profile (I was switching between the two for a while when FF4 had issues even restoring the sessions) and use system proxies. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
On Sun, Jun 5, 2011 at 7:33 AM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org wrote: On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 15:50 +1000, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: (sorry - sending again because I had the wrong address for the olpc devel list) Firefox 3.5 is being EOLed by Mozilla[0] and Google is dropping support for it[1]. In 10.1.3 this is default Web browser in GNOME and the backend of the Browse activity, so we should be thinking of what that means for us. The plan for Australia is to have a Fedora 14 build (based on DX12) ready by January. F14 comes with Firefox 3.6, which is the oldest version supported by Mozilla and Google. What would be even better is to have Firefox 4 available. By January, Firefox 3.6 will be quite old and close to EOL. Firefox 4 is a fair bit faster than 3.6, allowing us to squeeze extra performance out of our XOs. There is a yum repository for F14[2]. I use this on my F14 work machine (albeit in x86_64), and I've had no problem. Browse continues to work in Sugar. Are there any thoughts/plans about including Firefox 4 in the OLPC/DX OS? There was some discussion at EduJam. Browse is currently unmaintained, but Simon Schampijer and Gonzalo Odiard expressed interest in working on it. There was the question of missing support for the Python bindings of GtkMozEmbed, but the problem appears to be solved now. From looking at the Browse problem for Fedora 15 / SoaS 5 it seems that hulahop needs to be ported to the latest xulrunner 2/xulrunner-python and we should be mostly good to go. I have no idea how much work this would be though. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [OLPC-AU] [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
Does that mean that with FF4 installed, Browse is still working because it is (equivalently) using FF3.6 as the backend? Would that mean that if we were to upgrade to FF4, we would have a disparity in rendering between GNOME and Sugar? A note from a sometimes_bleeding_edge user: Ever since FF4 beta was available, I've been running it on all my XOs. It has its own subset of xulrunner functions - so does not conflict with whatever xulrunner package version has been installed in the XO. Browse has not been affected by my upleveling of FF. mikus p.s. Activities such as Karma appear to have packaged-in an entire copy of the then-current xulrunner function. pps. With FF 5 beta now available - that's what I am currently running in all my F11/F14 XOs. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 15:50 +1000, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: (sorry - sending again because I had the wrong address for the olpc devel list) Firefox 3.5 is being EOLed by Mozilla[0] and Google is dropping support for it[1]. In 10.1.3 this is default Web browser in GNOME and the backend of the Browse activity, so we should be thinking of what that means for us. The plan for Australia is to have a Fedora 14 build (based on DX12) ready by January. F14 comes with Firefox 3.6, which is the oldest version supported by Mozilla and Google. What would be even better is to have Firefox 4 available. By January, Firefox 3.6 will be quite old and close to EOL. Firefox 4 is a fair bit faster than 3.6, allowing us to squeeze extra performance out of our XOs. There is a yum repository for F14[2]. I use this on my F14 work machine (albeit in x86_64), and I've had no problem. Browse continues to work in Sugar. Are there any thoughts/plans about including Firefox 4 in the OLPC/DX OS? There was some discussion at EduJam. Browse is currently unmaintained, but Simon Schampijer and Gonzalo Odiard expressed interest in working on it. There was the question of missing support for the Python bindings of GtkMozEmbed, but the problem appears to be solved now. In the longer term, there's also the option of switching to Surf, an alternative browser based on WebKit which promises to be faster and less memory hungry than Browse. This depends on Lucian Branescu (or someone else) resuming the work on it. Migrating to Surf wasn't feasible with Fedora 11 because too many of WebKitGtk's dependencies were missing. -- Bernie Innocenti Sugar Labs Infrastructure Team http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Infrastructure_Team ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
(hey, is the clock of your computer set correctly? your message appears to be one day old!) On Sat, 2011-06-04 at 20:37 -0400, David Farning wrote: There was some discussion at EduJam. Browse is currently unmaintained, but Simon Schampijer and Gonzalo Odiard expressed interest in working on it. There was the question of missing support for the Python bindings of GtkMozEmbed, but the problem appears to be solved now. What is the solution? Ubuntu Natty ships a new version of python-gtkmozembed, which is based on xulrunner 2.0. Fedora 15 also has xulrunner 2.0, with Python bindings. Fedora 14 is still shipping xulrunner 1.9.2, which is roughly equivalent to the version used by Firefox 3.6. Backporting things from Fedora 15 is going to be a royal pain in the ass, since they have switched everything to Gnome 3. -- Bernie Innocenti Sugar Labs Infrastructure Team http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Infrastructure_Team ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Dextrose] Support for Firefox 3.5 is ending
On Sun, 2011-06-05 at 17:42 +1000, Sridhar Dhanapalan wrote: On 5 June 2011 17:02, Bernie Innocenti ber...@sugarlabs.org wrote: Fedora 14 is still shipping xulrunner 1.9.2, which is roughly equivalent to the version used by Firefox 3.6. Backporting things from Fedora 15 is going to be a royal pain in the ass, since they have switched everything to Gnome 3. Does that mean that with FF4 installed, Browse is still working because it is (equivalently) using FF3.6 as the backend? Would that mean that if we were to upgrade to FF4, we would have a disparity in rendering between GNOME and Sugar? Yes. Since version 3.5 (iirc), Firefox comes with its own forked version of xulrunner. The system-wide copy of xulrunner is distinct from the one bundled with the Firefox package. Same for nspr (the Netscape portable runtime) and nss (the netscape SSL implementation). And if you happen to use Thunderbird, you've even got a third copy of all these libraries in your system. Following the best traditions of Windows applications, Firefox and Thunderbird will store passwords, proxy settings and file associations in two different locations. Seeing this, the Chromium developers promptly reacted by bundling a dozen of large system libraries into their codebase, including ffmpeg, libicu, openssl and sqlite. Some of these have been diligently forked to ensure that packagers wouldn't accidentally try to use the system copies! -- Bernie Innocenti Sugar Labs Infrastructure Team http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Infrastructure_Team ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
