Re: [IAEP] Gnome vs Sugar -- The judgement day
That's sort of where I was thinking: Make it harder or at least something requiring more than a button push. I know when I was having troubles with not being able to use the mouse, I was able to get to a virtual terminal, drill down to the appropriate file and edit it to switch desktop environments. I'm not saying it has to be THAT obscure, but something requiring a wee bit of effort may suffice... If that's not enough, could it be set up so that there is no way to permanently set to GNOME, requiring users to jump through hoops any time they reboot? That way, only those who wanted it badly enough would bother to go to the terminal every time. On Jun 25, 2010 8:03 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: Raul had what I had thought was a nice compromise solution: to eliminate the control-panel section for switching. Then the switch would be a deliberate act from the Terminal, presumably by deliberate action by the student. Then any damage would be in the realm of violating the social contract between teacher and student (I defaced my text book) as opposed to an accident (the dog ate my homework). In La Rioja, they are just beginning to discuss the topic, but the Raul suggestion resonated with them. regards. -walter On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: This morning we had... -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop proj... ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Gnome vs Sugar -- The judgement day
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 12:01 AM, Michael Stone mich...@laptop.org wrote: Teachers demand a technological mean to solve a problem of discipline and computer literacy. Launch GNOME under a separate account with a quota and with limited or no sudo access. This will cut out most of the mayhem, thereby buying you time to work out a more integrated solution. A Rainbow-lite approach. Lot's of interest in Rainbow here in La Rioja. regards. -walter Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Gnome vs Sugar -- The judgement day
On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 4:41 AM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:29 PM, Kevin Cole kjc...@dc.sugarlabs.org wrote: That's sort of where I was thinking: Make it harder or at least something requiring more than a button push. I know when I was having troubles with not being able to use the mouse, I was able to get to a virtual terminal, drill down to the appropriate file and edit it to switch desktop environments. I'm not saying it has to be THAT obscure, but something requiring a wee bit of effort may suffice... And presumably, one thing that could be done from Terminal is to install the control-panel section. yum install olpc-switch-desktop would do that for you. Peter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Gnome vs Sugar -- The judgement day
El Sat, 26-06-2010 a las 13:42 +0100, Peter Robinson escribió: And presumably, one thing that could be done from Terminal is to install the control-panel section. yum install olpc-switch-desktop would do that for you. Yup! :) BTW, we've found a workable solution to the problem of yum being unusably slow and memory hungry on the XO-1: if we disable by default the fedora repositories, yum runs really quickly and does not download too much metadata. This command: yum --disablerepo fedora --disablerepo updates -y update Runs in 27 seconds the first time, 4 seconds the second time. If we add back all the rpms we ship to our custom repository, we could do small system upgrades with yum in a relatively affordable way. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Gnome vs Sugar -- The judgement day
El Sat, 26-06-2010 a las 00:01 -0400, Michael Stone escribió: Teachers demand a technological mean to solve a problem of discipline and computer literacy. Launch GNOME under a separate account with a quota and with limited or no sudo access. This will cut out most of the mayhem, thereby buying you time to work out a more integrated solution. This is a very good idea, and probably the way to go. We just lack the time to do it in this development cycle, because the time for developing new features is up and now we must concentrate on testing and fixing as many bugs as possible. For the next release, we could merge this along with a boot recovery menu feature that also didn't make it this time. -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Gnome vs Sugar -- The judgement day
Raul had what I had thought was a nice compromise solution: to eliminate the control-panel section for switching. Then the switch would be a deliberate act from the Terminal, presumably by deliberate action by the student. Then any damage would be in the realm of violating the social contract between teacher and student (I defaced my text book) as opposed to an accident (the dog ate my homework). In La Rioja, they are just beginning to discuss the topic, but the Raul suggestion resonated with them. regards. -walter On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: This morning we had a meeting with 15 formadores (teacher trainers) of Caacupé. After the initial excitement for a colorful and familiar desktop, the controversy around Gnome has been growing and growing. Many users and teachers love it and use it as their primary work environment, many others hate it wholeheartedly for the new problems it brings to the classroom (see the thread GNOME and protecting Sugar on sugar-devel@ for the full details). There's consensus among the formadores that Gnome isn't designed for little children, and many think that it's just a distraction from the pedagogical goals of the project. So I called for a motion: who wants to disable GNOME in the next release? Disable Gnome: 8 votes Keep Gnome: 7 votes So Gnome will go, but there's hardly a general consensus about it. In fact, I fear the day in which we have to impose this decision on all users. Even those who think that Gnome should be disabled for others, would like to keep it for themselves. During the debate, a lot of people asked if it would be possible to hide gnome instead of removing it. Sure, that would be easy... but if we instruct our techies a secret command to re-enable it, within days it will spread among all children. Security by obscurity never works. Other suggestions to lock down the desktop were also knocked down: children become extremely clever when it comes to make room for mp3s and videos. Someone correctly pointed out that children where perfectly capable to fill up their filesystem with questionable materials even with Sugar 0.82, but at this point Gnome had become too much the root of all evils for anyone to consider the possibility that ditching it wouldn't really solve the issue at its root. Other proposals to instruct the students on how to correctly manage free space where similarly rejected. Teachers demand a technological mean to solve a problem of discipline and computer literacy. Many asked if we could enable Gnome only for teachers and perhaps 4th graders. I initially said no, because issuing two separate images with and without Gnome would be overkill for us. But is it true? I'm already brewing two separate builds for the XO-1 and XO-1.5... Building four images at release time is actually not a big deal. So this is probably what we're going to do, in the end. You can bet that many young children will figure out ways to obtain the forbidden software anyway... but at least the blame for it will no longer fall on us :-) -- // Bernie Innocenti - http://codewiz.org/ \X/ Sugar Labs - http://sugarlabs.org/ ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) i...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Gnome vs Sugar -- The judgement day
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 11:29 PM, Kevin Cole kjc...@dc.sugarlabs.org wrote: That's sort of where I was thinking: Make it harder or at least something requiring more than a button push. I know when I was having troubles with not being able to use the mouse, I was able to get to a virtual terminal, drill down to the appropriate file and edit it to switch desktop environments. I'm not saying it has to be THAT obscure, but something requiring a wee bit of effort may suffice... And presumably, one thing that could be done from Terminal is to install the control-panel section. -walter If that's not enough, could it be set up so that there is no way to permanently set to GNOME, requiring users to jump through hoops any time they reboot? That way, only those who wanted it badly enough would bother to go to the terminal every time. On Jun 25, 2010 8:03 PM, Walter Bender walter.ben...@gmail.com wrote: Raul had what I had thought was a nice compromise solution: to eliminate the control-panel section for switching. Then the switch would be a deliberate act from the Terminal, presumably by deliberate action by the student. Then any damage would be in the realm of violating the social contract between teacher and student (I defaced my text book) as opposed to an accident (the dog ate my homework). In La Rioja, they are just beginning to discuss the topic, but the Raul suggestion resonated with them. regards. -walter On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Bernie Innocenti ber...@codewiz.org wrote: This morning we had... -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop proj... -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [IAEP] Gnome vs Sugar -- The judgement day
Teachers demand a technological mean to solve a problem of discipline and computer literacy. Launch GNOME under a separate account with a quota and with limited or no sudo access. This will cut out most of the mayhem, thereby buying you time to work out a more integrated solution. Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
