Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?

2009-02-03 Thread Morgan Collett
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 01:21, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote:
 There might be something in the Sugar Almanac,
 see http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources for a link.
 Alternately, an example of how to disable sharing is here:
 http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/math/repos/mainline/blobs/master/mathactivity.py#line75
 Note to Sugar toolkit guys, I'd love to have a formal API to indicate
 collaboration not supported.

Another method of removing the sharing control:
http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/terminal/repos/mainline/blobs/master/terminal.py#line61

Regards
Morgan
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?

2009-02-03 Thread James Simmons

Morgan,

This is *exactly* what I was looking for, thanks.  As a bonus I can get 
rid of the keep button as well, which is of no use to me.


James Simmons


Morgan Collett wrote:

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 01:21, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote:
  

There might be something in the Sugar Almanac,
see http://sugarlabs.org/go/ActivityTeam/Resources for a link.
Alternately, an example of how to disable sharing is here:
http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/math/repos/mainline/blobs/master/mathactivity.py#line75
Note to Sugar toolkit guys, I'd love to have a formal API to indicate
collaboration not supported.



Another method of removing the sharing control:
http://git.sugarlabs.org/projects/terminal/repos/mainline/blobs/master/terminal.py#line61

Regards
Morgan
  


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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?

2009-02-02 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
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Eben Eliason wrote:
 I think that the addition of a new property in the activity.info file
 would be logical here.  Make it an integer indicating the maximum
 number of supported participants.

OK, but as an Activity author I might like to specify that cap at runtime,
depending on many things, such as the size of the document.  I might even
want to let the initiator choose the number of participants.  I think we
should also have a runtime API, so that the cap that can be varied at any
time.

In fact, it might be nice to have a a generic solution for defining config
variables that can be controlled either statically or at runtime.  We have
mentioned a wide variety of such variables, including things like whether
screen rotation is supported.

 Scott (CC'd) has already come up with some really nice proposals for
 adding VNC as an alternate colaboration mechanism for all activities.
 In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby
 any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed
 in that manner. 

I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC sharing,
regardless of max_participants.

- --Ben
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?

2009-02-02 Thread Eben Eliason
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Eben Eliason wrote:
 I think that the addition of a new property in the activity.info file
 would be logical here.  Make it an integer indicating the maximum
 number of supported participants.

 OK, but as an Activity author I might like to specify that cap at runtime,
 depending on many things, such as the size of the document.  I might even
 want to let the initiator choose the number of participants.  I think we
 should also have a runtime API, so that the cap that can be varied at any
 time.

That's a good observation.  You're right; I was seeing hard limits,
but soft limits could certainly be implemented via some API that Sugar
could call into to retrieve the info.  The static declaration could be
used as the fallback.

 In fact, it might be nice to have a a generic solution for defining config
 variables that can be controlled either statically or at runtime.  We have
 mentioned a wide variety of such variables, including things like whether
 screen rotation is supported.

Right.

 Scott (CC'd) has already come up with some really nice proposals for
 adding VNC as an alternate colaboration mechanism for all activities.
 In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby
 any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed
 in that manner.

 I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC sharing,
 regardless of max_participants.

Of course not.  I didn't mean to imply such a limitation; only that
the VNC solution would be the /only/ option after some participants
limit was reached.  That is, you could either Join or Watch any
shared activity, but the Join option would disappear once
full...Watch would remain. It's possible we'd have an upper bound
on the number of people who could watch as well, but I don't think
that's an activity-specific parameter.

- Eben

 - --Ben
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?

2009-02-02 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Eben Eliason wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
 bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme, whereby
 any activity that already has max_participants in it could be viewed
 in that manner.
 I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC sharing,
 regardless of max_participants.
 
 Of course not.  I didn't mean to imply such a limitation; only that
 the VNC solution would be the /only/ option after some participants
 limit was reached.  That is, you could either Join or Watch any
 shared activity, but the Join option would disappear once
 full...Watch would remain. It's possible we'd have an upper bound
 on the number of people who could watch as well, but I don't think
 that's an activity-specific parameter.

Oh! That's beautiful.

Let's do that.

- --Ben
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=YKXn
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?

2009-02-02 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 OK, but as an Activity author I might like to specify that cap at runtime,
 depending on many things, such as the size of the document.

... start collaborating on an empty Write.xo doc, and shed
participants dynamically as the document grows ;-)



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?

2009-02-02 Thread Gary C Martin
On 3 Feb 2009, at 01:02, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Eben Eliason wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
 bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
 In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme,  
 whereby
 any activity that already has max_participants in it could be  
 viewed
 in that manner.
 I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC  
 sharing,
 regardless of max_participants.

 Of course not.  I didn't mean to imply such a limitation; only that
 the VNC solution would be the /only/ option after some participants
 limit was reached.  That is, you could either Join or Watch any
 shared activity, but the Join option would disappear once
 full...Watch would remain. It's possible we'd have an upper  
 bound
 on the number of people who could watch as well, but I don't think
 that's an activity-specific parameter.

 Oh! That's beautiful.

 Let's do that.

I don't mean to rain on the parade here, but am I the only one who  
finds VNC slow even on high spec equipment over a dedicated broadband  
connection? I do use it occasionally for remote support, so it does  
have its uses – but a handful of XOs in the same wireless spectrum?  
Ouch. From a technical stand point VNC is going to be almost always  
more memory hungry, more cpu hungry, and more bandwidth hungry than  
most activity collaborations, seems to be an overly hopeful  
collaboration method to fallback on.

Happy to be proven wrong, and I guess it could be a Sugar feature not  
really intended for XOs.

Regards,
--Gary

 - --Ben
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?

2009-02-02 Thread Carol Farlow Lerche
Gary, I've used it for many years on machines much less powerful than the
XO, often for an sshable net meeting with multiple participants, and I think
you might need to do a few simple things to speed it up for yourself.
(Remove fancy graphic backdrop, try for a smaller palette).  These things
are pretty congruent with the normal state of the desktop on the XO.

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:26 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:

 On 3 Feb 2009, at 01:02, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote:

  -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
  Hash: SHA1
 
  Eben Eliason wrote:
  On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 7:33 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
  bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote:
  In my mind, this would work perfectly with the above scheme,
  whereby
  any activity that already has max_participants in it could be
  viewed
  in that manner.
  I don't see why any Activity should be excluded from such VNC
  sharing,
  regardless of max_participants.
 
  Of course not.  I didn't mean to imply such a limitation; only that
  the VNC solution would be the /only/ option after some participants
  limit was reached.  That is, you could either Join or Watch any
  shared activity, but the Join option would disappear once
  full...Watch would remain. It's possible we'd have an upper
  bound
  on the number of people who could watch as well, but I don't think
  that's an activity-specific parameter.
 
  Oh! That's beautiful.
 
  Let's do that.

 I don't mean to rain on the parade here, but am I the only one who
 finds VNC slow even on high spec equipment over a dedicated broadband
 connection? I do use it occasionally for remote support, so it does
 have its uses – but a handful of XOs in the same wireless spectrum?
 Ouch. From a technical stand point VNC is going to be almost always
 more memory hungry, more cpu hungry, and more bandwidth hungry than
 most activity collaborations, seems to be an overly hopeful
 collaboration method to fallback on.

 Happy to be proven wrong, and I guess it could be a Sugar feature not
 really intended for XOs.

 Regards,
 --Gary

  - --Ben
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  =YKXn
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Re: [Sugar-devel] Is it possible to disable sharing for an Activity?

2009-02-02 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 9:26 PM, Gary C Martin g...@garycmartin.com wrote:
 Happy to be proven wrong, and I guess it could be a Sugar feature not really
 intended for XOs.

Let's let the flowers bloom: I don't doubt that there are many ways to
make *better* collaboration, on an activity-by-activity basis.  But
VNC is something that can be created as a common baseline.  Let's
start by doing that, and improve it on a case-by-case basis, instead
of having *no collaboration* as our baseline.

FWIW, I second Carol's comments: VNC works quite nicely on fast local
networks, such as direction connections between XOs, and I've used it
on clients as simple as a Palm Pilot and a Mac SE/30.  Reducing
graphic busy-ness and palette size helps a lot!  Also: don't run
xvncviewer remotely: VNC is network efficient, but the way its X
client uses the network between it and the X server is definitely
*not*!
 --scott

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