Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC
Hello, I also volunteer - I believe as well that a console mode + a standard X windows, as suggested by the first poster, could have advantages. If you agree, a different runlevel could be used for that, ie the olpc could be switched easily between sugar mode and non sugar mode - call it salt or pepper if you want :) Actually, it could be a usefull distinction - the bootloader could start the kernel in either runlevel, depending on a special key combination, so that legacy educational applications could run without any problem or any complex operation, without interfering at all with anything else. Ex: press some button at boot time, and you are presented with the dos mode, where you can run your legacy applications as you always did. Press another button and you have a standard x-windows, so if you have a remote server with existing specific apps (math/chem), just log there, export the display and you're set, without python eating power/memory for tasks where it is not required. I too can see that being put into a good use, because there are several important DOS application for sign language actually used in Brazil, and many X applications in highscools and universities around where I live. I've been experimenting with such hacks. I'll try to release a good prototype soon. Guylhem On 9/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I suppose that I have effectively opened my mouth and inserted foot, so > perhaps I should volunteer to start a bit of work in this direction. > > Any other volunteers? We'll work something out. ;-) > > --elijah > > > On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Jim Gettys wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:35:46 -0400 > > From: Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Cc: Mitch Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, devel@lists.laptop.org > > Subject: Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC > > > > On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 18:57 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> > >>> Subject: Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC > >>> > >>> OLPC does not support VGA/EGA/CGA graphics, so the display code for all > >>> those old programs will not work. > >> > >> > >> IIRC xdosemu provides vga support within an X window. > >> > >> I sympathize with folks who want to run ancient dos educational apps on > >> the OLPC - it'd be great if xdosemu were available as an activity-like > >> bundle for folks who need it. > > > > Seems like a good idea? Any volunteers? It isn't high enough on the > > priority list that we'll get to it anytime very soon. Would be a good > > way for someone to learn how to "sugarize" a simple application. > > - Jim > > > >> > >> [Same goes for C64 emulators... there are still folks in chemistry and > >> biology and physics who have useful code that runs on the Commodore > >> machines.. even at Big 10 universities. ;)] > >> > >> --e > >> > >> > >>>> 1. There are large number of DOS education application suitable for > teacher and students. > >>>> 2. Most DOS applications are designed for slow PC below 100 MHz. > >>>> 3. There are many abandonware/freely available 20 years old DOS > applications/tools on the Internet, such as TurboC, TurboPascal, TurboBasic > etc. > >> > >> ___ > >> Devel mailing list > >> Devel@lists.laptop.org > >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC
> If you agree, a different runlevel could be used for that, ie the olpc > could be switched easily between sugar mode and non sugar mode - call it > salt or pepper if you want :) I don't see much point in diverging from the sugar model - it works for everything else, and having stuff integrated into the system is 'clean' for folks to work with. > Actually, it could be a usefull distinction - the bootloader could start > the kernel in either runlevel, depending on a special key combination, > so that legacy educational applications could run without any problem or > any complex operation, without interfering at all with anything else. that is waaay more complicated and invasive of the rest of the system than i think could be made workable. > I too can see that being put into a good use, because there are several > important DOS application for sign language actually used in Brazil, and > many X applications in highscools and universities around where I live. > I've been experimenting with such hacks. I'll try to release a good > prototype soon. I am particularly interested in seeing the sign language bits promoted, if you have some of those -- my partner's son is deaf, so ASL (and other visual) education tools are of particular interest to me [and to him]. --elijah ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC
On Sep 26, 2007, at 14:07 , Jim Gettys wrote: > Sugarizing the existing X based version is a small task. Small compared to writing a VGA emulator anyway. - Bert - ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC
On Wed, 2007-09-26 at 13:23 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hello, > > I also volunteer - I believe as well that a console mode + a standard > X windows, as suggested by the first poster, could have advantages. > You seem to have missed Mitch's point: we don't have VGA or similar emulation on our console (which uses fbdev): the code emulating such hardware (which is how it would have to work on the Geode) was encumbered, and we could not maintain it long term, so we dropped it from our firmware. So you need to go for the X based emulation; Sugarizing the existing X based version is a small task. - Jim > If you agree, a different runlevel could be used for that, ie the olpc > could be switched easily between sugar mode and non sugar mode - call > it salt or pepper if you want :) > > Actually, it could be a usefull distinction - the bootloader could > start the kernel in either runlevel, depending on a special key > combination, so that legacy educational applications could run without > any problem or any complex operation, without interfering at all with > anything else. > > Ex: press some button at boot time, and you are presented with the dos > mode, where you can run your legacy applications as you always did. > Press another button and you have a standard x-windows, so if you have > a remote server with existing specific apps (math/chem), just log > there, export the display and you're set, without python eating > power/memory for tasks where it is not required. > > I too can see that being put into a good use, because there are > several important DOS application for sign language actually used in > Brazil, and many X applications in highscools and universities around > where I live. > > I've been experimenting with such hacks. I'll try to release a good > prototype soon. > > Guylhem > > On 9/26/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I suppose that I have effectively opened my mouth and inserted foot, so > > perhaps I should volunteer to start a bit of work in this direction. > > > > Any other volunteers? We'll work something out. ;-) > > > > --elijah > > > > > > On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Jim Gettys wrote: > > > > > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:35:46 -0400 > > > From: Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Cc: Mitch Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, devel@lists.laptop.org > > > Subject: Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC > > > > > > On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 18:57 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > >> > > >>> Subject: Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC > > >>> > > >>> OLPC does not support VGA/EGA/CGA graphics, so the display code for all > > >>> those old programs will not work. > > >> > > >> > > >> IIRC xdosemu provides vga support within an X window. > > >> > > >> I sympathize with folks who want to run ancient dos educational apps on > > >> the OLPC - it'd be great if xdosemu were available as an activity-like > > >> bundle for folks who need it. > > > > > > Seems like a good idea? Any volunteers? It isn't high enough on the > > > priority list that we'll get to it anytime very soon. Would be a good > > > way for someone to learn how to "sugarize" a simple application. > > > - Jim > > > > > >> > > >> [Same goes for C64 emulators... there are still folks in chemistry and > > >> biology and physics who have useful code that runs on the Commodore > > >> machines.. even at Big 10 universities. ;)] > > >> > > >> --e > > >> > > >> > > >>>> 1. There are large number of DOS education application suitable for > > teacher and students. > > >>>> 2. Most DOS applications are designed for slow PC below 100 MHz. > > >>>> 3. There are many abandonware/freely available 20 years old DOS > > applications/tools on the Internet, such as TurboC, TurboPascal, TurboBasic > > etc. > > >> > > >> ___ > > >> Devel mailing list > > >> Devel@lists.laptop.org > > >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > > ___ > > Devel mailing list > > Devel@lists.laptop.org > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > -- Jim Gettys One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC
I suppose that I have effectively opened my mouth and inserted foot, so perhaps I should volunteer to start a bit of work in this direction. Any other volunteers? We'll work something out. ;-) --elijah On Tue, 25 Sep 2007, Jim Gettys wrote: > Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 20:35:46 -0400 > From: Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: Mitch Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, devel@lists.laptop.org > Subject: Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC > > On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 18:57 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >> >>> Subject: Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC >>> >>> OLPC does not support VGA/EGA/CGA graphics, so the display code for all >>> those old programs will not work. >> >> >> IIRC xdosemu provides vga support within an X window. >> >> I sympathize with folks who want to run ancient dos educational apps on >> the OLPC - it'd be great if xdosemu were available as an activity-like >> bundle for folks who need it. > > Seems like a good idea? Any volunteers? It isn't high enough on the > priority list that we'll get to it anytime very soon. Would be a good > way for someone to learn how to "sugarize" a simple application. > - Jim > >> >> [Same goes for C64 emulators... there are still folks in chemistry and >> biology and physics who have useful code that runs on the Commodore >> machines.. even at Big 10 universities. ;)] >> >> --e >> >> >>>> 1. There are large number of DOS education application suitable for >>>> teacher and students. >>>> 2. Most DOS applications are designed for slow PC below 100 MHz. >>>> 3. There are many abandonware/freely available 20 years old DOS >>>> applications/tools on the Internet, such as TurboC, TurboPascal, >>>> TurboBasic etc. >> >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC
On Tue, 2007-09-25 at 18:57 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > Subject: Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC > > > > OLPC does not support VGA/EGA/CGA graphics, so the display code for all > > those old programs will not work. > > > IIRC xdosemu provides vga support within an X window. > > I sympathize with folks who want to run ancient dos educational apps on > the OLPC - it'd be great if xdosemu were available as an activity-like > bundle for folks who need it. Seems like a good idea? Any volunteers? It isn't high enough on the priority list that we'll get to it anytime very soon. Would be a good way for someone to learn how to "sugarize" a simple application. - Jim > > [Same goes for C64 emulators... there are still folks in chemistry and > biology and physics who have useful code that runs on the Commodore > machines.. even at Big 10 universities. ;)] > > --e > > > >> 1. There are large number of DOS education application suitable for > >> teacher and students. > >> 2. Most DOS applications are designed for slow PC below 100 MHz. > >> 3. There are many abandonware/freely available 20 years old DOS > >> applications/tools on the Internet, such as TurboC, TurboPascal, > >> TurboBasic etc. > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Jim Gettys One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC
> Subject: Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC > > OLPC does not support VGA/EGA/CGA graphics, so the display code for all > those old programs will not work. IIRC xdosemu provides vga support within an X window. I sympathize with folks who want to run ancient dos educational apps on the OLPC - it'd be great if xdosemu were available as an activity-like bundle for folks who need it. [Same goes for C64 emulators... there are still folks in chemistry and biology and physics who have useful code that runs on the Commodore machines.. even at Big 10 universities. ;)] --e >> 1. There are large number of DOS education application suitable for teacher >> and students. >> 2. Most DOS applications are designed for slow PC below 100 MHz. >> 3. There are many abandonware/freely available 20 years old DOS >> applications/tools on the Internet, such as TurboC, TurboPascal, TurboBasic >> etc. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC
OLPC does not support VGA/EGA/CGA graphics, so the display code for all those old programs will not work. big one wrote: >> Booting to console mode / svgalib possible >> > > Can someone put a wiki / HOWTO about booting OLPC to console mode, setting up > svgalib, SDL, xinit command and xinitrc? > > >> Lack of FreeDOS because of BIOS >> > > With console mode, IMO it is possible to run DOS Emulator such as DosEMU + > FreeDOS or DOSbox with decent speed on OLPC. > > http://dosemu.sourceforge.net > http://dosbox.sourceforge.net > > 1. There are large number of DOS education application suitable for teacher > and students. > 2. Most DOS applications are designed for slow PC below 100 MHz. > 3. There are many abandonware/freely available 20 years old DOS > applications/tools on the Internet, such as TurboC, TurboPascal, TurboBasic > etc. > > DOS Freeware / Shareware applications: > Simtel.net: > http://www.eunet.bg/simtel.net/msdos/ > Garbo.uwasa.fi: > ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/ > > _ > = You want FREE web-based email ? > = You want your own @qon.lao.net address?? > = Then you want LaoNet's WebMail ! > = Get it at http://webmail.lao.net !! > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Console Mode, DOS Emulator on OLPC
> Booting to console mode / svgalib possible Can someone put a wiki / HOWTO about booting OLPC to console mode, setting up svgalib, SDL, xinit command and xinitrc? > Lack of FreeDOS because of BIOS With console mode, IMO it is possible to run DOS Emulator such as DosEMU + FreeDOS or DOSbox with decent speed on OLPC. http://dosemu.sourceforge.net http://dosbox.sourceforge.net 1. There are large number of DOS education application suitable for teacher and students. 2. Most DOS applications are designed for slow PC below 100 MHz. 3. There are many abandonware/freely available 20 years old DOS applications/tools on the Internet, such as TurboC, TurboPascal, TurboBasic etc. DOS Freeware / Shareware applications: Simtel.net: http://www.eunet.bg/simtel.net/msdos/ Garbo.uwasa.fi: ftp://garbo.uwasa.fi/pc/ _ = You want FREE web-based email ? = You want your own @qon.lao.net address?? = Then you want LaoNet's WebMail ! = Get it at http://webmail.lao.net !! ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
