zRe: New joyride build 1452

[Bernardo Innocenti]

On 12/20/07 14:56, Marcus Leech wrote:

> While I'm sympathetic to removing "bulk", I'm someone who developed his
> first networking stack at the age of 16 or 17  around 1980.  I think we
> shouldn't rush too hastily in making assumptions about what 12-year-old
> budding software genii will actually need.

As much as I sympathize with geeky kids, I think we shouldn't
penalize everybody by carrying tons of debugging tools.
If they are smart enough to use these things, one would expect
them to be able to deal with yum.

Regarding the specific case of network debugging tools, C.Scott
certainly has a point :-)

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Re: New joyride build 1452

[C. Scott Ananian]

> Bernardo Innocenti wrote:
> > I also disapprove adding bulky packages to our builds just for sake of
> > debugging.  In this case, this is said to be only temporary until we
> > have shaken the most serious networking problems.

As I've said before: normally you can say, "just download the
debugging tools if you have problems", but there's a strong argument
that *networking debugging* tools better be pre-installed on the
laptop.
  --scott

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Re: New joyride build 1452

[Marcus Leech]

Bernardo Innocenti wrote:
> :-)
>
> I also disapprove adding bulky packages to our builds just for sake of
> debugging.  In this case, this is said to be only temporary until we
> have shaken the most serious networking problems.
>
> There is still plenty of opportunity for debloating our images, and
> I'm willing to pursue it, but it is not clear if this is a valued goal.
>
>   
While I'm sympathetic to removing "bulk", I'm someone who developed his
first networking
  stack at the age of 16 or 17  around 1980.  I think we shouldn't rush
too hastily in making
  assumptions about what 12-year-old budding software genii will
actually need.

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Re: New joyride build 1452

[Bernardo Innocenti]

Asheesh Laroia wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Dec 2007, Build Announcer Script wrote:
> 
>> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1452/
>>
>> -Chat-31.xo
>> +Chat-32.xo
>> +libpcap.i386 14:0.9.7-1.fc7
>> -olpc-utils.i386 0:0.53-1.olpc2
>> +olpc-utils.i386 0:0.59-1.olpc2
>> +sudo.i386 0:1.6.8p12-14.fc7
>> +tcpdump.i386 14:3.9.7-1.fc7
> 
> I can just picture the eight year old dissassembling on-wire network 
> protocols by watching the streams in tcpdump.

It's a dependency dragged in by olpc-utils, for the sake of the
olpc-netcapture.

> By the time they're twelve, they'll See the Matrix.

:-)

I also disapprove adding bulky packages to our builds just for sake of
debugging.  In this case, this is said to be only temporary until we
have shaken the most serious networking problems.

There is still plenty of opportunity for debloating our images, and
I'm willing to pursue it, but it is not clear if this is a valued goal.

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Re: New joyride build 1452

[Morgan Collett]

>
> --- Chat-32 ---
> >  * Pippy-ize Chat, so that 'view source' lets you edit and regenerate
> >the Chat activity in Pippy.
>
>
> Uh, where did this come from? It's not in git... Please send me a patch.
> Is this a post Update.1 feature?
>

Ah, found it - #5542
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Re: New joyride build 1452

[Morgan Collett]

On Dec 20, 2007 5:15 AM, Build Announcer Script <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1452/
>
> -Chat-31.xo
> +Chat-32.xo




> --- Chat-32 ---
>  * Pippy-ize Chat, so that 'view source' lets you edit and regenerate
>the Chat activity in Pippy.


Uh, where did this come from? It's not in git... Please send me a patch. Is
this a post Update.1 feature?

Morgan
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Re: New joyride build 1452

[Asheesh Laroia]

On Wed, 19 Dec 2007, Build Announcer Script wrote:

> http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1452/
>
> -Chat-31.xo
> +Chat-32.xo
> +libpcap.i386 14:0.9.7-1.fc7
> -olpc-utils.i386 0:0.53-1.olpc2
> +olpc-utils.i386 0:0.59-1.olpc2
> +sudo.i386 0:1.6.8p12-14.fc7
> +tcpdump.i386 14:3.9.7-1.fc7

I can just picture the eight year old dissassembling on-wire network 
protocols by watching the streams in tcpdump.

By the time they're twelve, they'll See the Matrix.

-- Asheesh.

--
Only those who leisurely approach that which the masses are busy about
can be busy about that which the masses take leisurely.
-- Lao Tsu
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New joyride build 1452

[Build Announcer Script]

http://xs-dev.laptop.org/~cscott/olpc/streams/joyride/build1452/

-Chat-31.xo
+Chat-32.xo
+libpcap.i386 14:0.9.7-1.fc7
-olpc-utils.i386 0:0.53-1.olpc2
+olpc-utils.i386 0:0.59-1.olpc2
+sudo.i386 0:1.6.8p12-14.fc7
+tcpdump.i386 14:3.9.7-1.fc7

--- Chat-32 ---
  * Pippy-ize Chat, so that 'view source' lets you edit and regenerate
the Chat activity in Pippy.

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