Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-10 Thread Wade Brainerd
2009/2/7 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com That seems a good idea. The use of SVGs seems unnecessary. Although an awsome functionality, which probably saves a lot of work, would allow to scale the use of Sugar to systems with bigger screens - were it probably will never be in use. I've never

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-10 Thread Martin Langhoff
2009/2/11 Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com: I have spent the last 10 years optimizing software for a living, and can tell you without a doubt that any system can be optimized without starting from scratch. It's just much harder to understand the performance characteristics of a large, complex,

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-10 Thread david
On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: 2009/2/11 Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com: I have spent the last 10 years optimizing software for a living, and can tell you without a doubt that any system can be optimized without starting from scratch. It's just much harder to understand the

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-10 Thread Wade Brainerd
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:44 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: We can skip the build a replacement step, and head for the goal faster. the entire sugar infrastructure is a 'build a replacement' step. people are questioning if it was the right thing to do

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-10 Thread david
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009, Wade Brainerd wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:44 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: On Wed, 11 Feb 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: We can skip the build a replacement step, and head for the goal faster. the entire sugar infrastructure is a 'build a replacement' step. people are

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-10 Thread Peter Robinson
or just run other distros (like many of us are doing) however, even those of us who run other distros (and see the differences) would like to see the Sugar 'distro' improve. The sugar distro is basically Fedora, with a few modifications for things like the security that OLPC uses. Sugar is

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-10 Thread david
On Tue, 10 Feb 2009, Peter Robinson wrote: or just run other distros (like many of us are doing) however, even those of us who run other distros (and see the differences) would like to see the Sugar 'distro' improve. The sugar distro is basically Fedora, with a few modifications for things

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-10 Thread Peter Robinson
The sugar distro is basically Fedora, with a few modifications for things like the security that OLPC uses. Sugar is actually the GUI that sits on top of the distro. yes, but those modifications are significant. I know that Sugar is the name of the GUI, but there are still things that don't

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-10 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 1:41 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: as I said, it's a ever shrinking list, but last I heard the security changes cascaded to other issues, and there were journal related issues. It shrinks because people pick one, and help us working on it :-) Action speculation. Hop on

Re: optimized Geode code (was Re: OLPC upgrades)

2009-02-08 Thread Peter Robinson
Hi All, Tiago Marques wrote: That software is still not compiled for the Geode LX, which further slows it down. As you say, everything uses CPU on the Geode. Things like decompressing can be made, probably, a lot faster just by using compiler optimizations. Has this been considered in

Re: optimized Geode code (was Re: OLPC upgrades)

2009-02-08 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:38 PM, Peter Robinson pbrobin...@gmail.com wrote: Koji can support geode, the problem with going that route is that we become a secondary architecture which means we have to provide the Exactly. Basically I think what comes out will be fairly close to optimal for

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-08 Thread Martin Langhoff
2009/2/8 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: da...@lang.hm wrote: the fact that KDE and GNOME (both desktops that are considered pigs on normal machines) make a XO laptop seem snappy by comparison to Sugar

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-08 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote: 2009/2/8 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 10:46 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz bmsch...@fas.harvard.edu wrote: da...@lang.hm wrote: the fact that KDE and GNOME (both desktops that are

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-07 Thread Tiago Marques
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.comwrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: Ok, what tools can I use to satisfy you of this 'opinion' that applications start faster on either KDE or GNOME than on Sugar on the same hardware. by

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-07 Thread Tiago Marques
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Albert Cahalan acaha...@gmail.com wrote: Bobby Powers writes: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiagomnm at gmail.com: Python is killing the XO, what's being done in that regard? The $100 laptop

optimized Geode code (was Re: OLPC upgrades)

2009-02-07 Thread S Page
Tiago Marques wrote: That software is still not compiled for the Geode LX, which further slows it down. As you say, everything uses CPU on the Geode. Things like decompressing can be made, probably, a lot faster just by using compiler optimizations. Has this been considered in any way for future

optimized Geode code (was Re: OLPC upgrades)

2009-02-07 Thread Tiago Marques
On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:40 AM, S Page i...@skierpage.com wrote: Tiago Marques wrote: That software is still not compiled for the Geode LX, which further slows it down. As you say, everything uses CPU on the Geode. Things like decompressing can be made, probably, a lot faster just by

Re: optimized Geode code (was Re: OLPC upgrades)

2009-02-07 Thread Bobby Powers
2009/2/7 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com: On Sun, Feb 8, 2009 at 12:40 AM, S Page i...@skierpage.com wrote: Tiago Marques wrote: That software is still not compiled for the Geode LX, which further slows it down. As you say, everything uses CPU on the Geode. Things like decompressing

Fwd: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-06 Thread Tiago Marques
-- Forwarded message -- From: Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com Date: Sat, Feb 7, 2009 at 1:46 AM Subject: Re: OLPC upgrades To: da...@lang.hm 2009/2/3 da...@lang.hm On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Tiago Marques wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Bobby Powers bobbypow...@gmail.com

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread Albert Cahalan
Bobby Powers writes: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiagomnm at gmail.com: Python is killing the XO, what's being done in that regard? The $100 laptop will always be hardware limited, how can python be a benefit and not a *huge* burden? I for one can't get my head around that. The idea is to give

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread Wade Brainerd
Regarding Gentoo, don't miss http://www.gentooxo.org/. That project combined with the Sugar overlay might be a good start for a tiny XO Sugar distribution. Wade On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan nirbheek.chau...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:12 AM, S Page

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread Wade Brainerd
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:38 AM, Albert Cahalan acaha...@gmail.com wrote: Bobby Powers writes: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiagomnm at gmail.com: Python is killing the XO, what's being done in that regard? The $100 laptop will always be hardware limited, how can python be a benefit and not a

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread Francisco Castro
On Wednesday 04 February 2009 17:58:24 Albert Cahalan wrote: Assembly has a reputation for being hard, but this is far from the truth. It is large assembly projects that are hard to understand. For tiny things, assembly is even easier than C. What you see is what you get, exactly. Python has

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-04 Thread John Watlington
On Feb 4, 2009, at 12:47 AM, Bobby Powers wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:55 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: Ok, what tools can I use to satisfy you of this 'opinion' that applications start faster

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread Bobby Powers
2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com: On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited below, a long time ago. So why aren't we doing them? ...* *On Wed, Jan 28,

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread Wade Brainerd
A patch isn't really appropriate but generally speaking I: - Followed Mitch Bradley's instructions for tar-ing /dev. - Replaced the initrd with a 3 liner using busybox that just mounts NAND and calls switch_root. This involved undoing all the version stuff in the filesystem. - Replaced

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread S Page
Nirbheek Chauhan wrote: Since you're looking at making a gentoo-based sugar distro, you might find http://gitorious.org/projects/sugar-gentoo useful :) Please update http://sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Gentoo , which lists a similar overlay project

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread Nirbheek Chauhan
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 2:12 AM, S Page i...@skierpage.com wrote: Nirbheek Chauhan wrote: Since you're looking at making a gentoo-based sugar distro, you might find http://gitorious.org/projects/sugar-gentoo useful :) Please update http://sugarlabs.org/go/Community/Distributions/Gentoo ,

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: Ok, what tools can I use to satisfy you of this 'opinion' that applications start faster on either KDE or GNOME than on Sugar on the same hardware. by the way, you are the first person I have heard dispute this. Erik has done a few things

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread david
On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: Ok, what tools can I use to satisfy you of this 'opinion' that applications start faster on either KDE or GNOME than on Sugar on the same hardware. by the way, you are the first person I have

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread david
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Benjamin M. Schwartz wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 da...@lang.hm wrote: the fact that KDE and GNOME (both desktops that are considered pigs on normal machines) make a XO laptop seem snappy by comparison to Sugar (as of December) means that there

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread Benjamin M. Schwartz
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 da...@lang.hm wrote: the fact that KDE and GNOME (both desktops that are considered pigs on normal machines) make a XO laptop seem snappy by comparison to Sugar (as of December) means that there is a significant problem with Sugar. I'm not happy

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread Tiago Marques
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Bobby Powers bobbypow...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com: On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread david
On Tue, 3 Feb 2009, Tiago Marques wrote: On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Bobby Powers bobbypow...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com: On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: The current dual mode touchpad hardware is being discontinued

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-03 Thread Bobby Powers
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:55 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 1:03 PM, da...@lang.hm wrote: Ok, what tools can I use to satisfy you of this 'opinion' that applications start faster on either KDE or GNOME than on Sugar on the same

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-02 Thread Tiago Marques
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Frank Ch. Eigler f...@redhat.com wrote: Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org writes: [...] It's also worth pointing out that the new low-power x86 processors, Atom being the poster child, are still stuck with power-hungry support chips - memory and display

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-02 Thread Tiago Marques
On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited below, a long time ago. So why aren't we doing them? ...* *On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Nazareno

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-02 Thread Wade Brainerd
2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited below, a long time ago. So why aren't we doing them? ...* *On Wed, Jan 28,

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-02 Thread Tiago Marques
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com On Thu, Jan 29, 2009 at 4:03 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-02 Thread Nirbheek Chauhan
Since you're looking at making a gentoo-based sugar distro, you might find http://gitorious.org/projects/sugar-gentoo useful :) On 2/3/09, Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:18 PM, Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/2/2 Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-02 Thread Tiago Marques
Thanks, much appreciated :) Best regards On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 11:59 PM, Nirbheek Chauhan nirbheek.chau...@gmail.com wrote: Since you're looking at making a gentoo-based sugar distro, you might find http://gitorious.org/projects/sugar-gentoo useful :) On 2/3/09, Tiago Marques

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-02-02 Thread C. Scott Ananian
2009/2/2 Wade Brainerd wad...@gmail.com: take better advantage of the excellent hardware that is the XO-1. I'd really like to see someone try to build a tiny LFS based XO specific distro which runs Sugar, and boots in 30sec :) I've got my personal XO booting in around 45sec just by hacking

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-01-30 Thread Frank Ch. Eigler
Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org writes: [...] It's also worth pointing out that the new low-power x86 processors, Atom being the poster child, are still stuck with power-hungry support chips - memory and display controllers. That might change soon, but for now it's still the case. [...]

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-01-30 Thread Samuel Klein
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Frank Ch. Eigler f...@redhat.com wrote: Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org writes: [...] It's also worth pointing out that the new low-power x86 processors, Atom being the poster child, are still stuck with power-hungry support chips - memory and display

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-01-30 Thread pgf
samuel wrote: On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Frank Ch. Eigler f...@redhat.com wrote: Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org writes: [...] It's also worth pointing out that the new low-power x86 processors, Atom being the poster child, are still stuck with power-hungry support chips -

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-01-30 Thread rihowa...@gmail.com
Those software gauges tell you what ever 'version of the truth' the author wants to tell you and make you feel happy about your device. To perform power measurements reliably you need to instrument with a good quality physical voltmeter and ammeter. On Jan 30, 2009, at 8:31 AM,

Re: OLPC upgrades

2009-01-30 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 3:18 AM, Frank Ch. Eigler f...@redhat.com wrote: Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org writes: [...] It's also worth pointing out that the new low-power x86 processors, Atom being the poster child, are still stuck with power-hungry support chips - memory and display

OLPC upgrades

2009-01-28 Thread Mitch Bradley
Guess what? The people at OLPC, who aren't stupid, already considered every point in the message cited below, a long time ago. So why aren't we doing them? ...* *On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Nazareno object...@gmail.comwrote: where entire servers would melt down because of the