Re: Observing games
On Feb 6, 2008 5:33 AM, Edward Cherlin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 5, 2008 6:37 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I recall, the Connect activitiy was set up to let the first two players play and everyone else who joined observe. So if we have that code, it should be easy to add to other games. Excellent. Can somebody put that on a Wiki page, and link to it from a development page and the various games pages? Should we bug each of the games with this as a feature request? I'm the maintainer of Connect, although due to higher priorities with presence and collaboration it isn't being actively developed at the moment. By all means take a look at the approach Connect uses, but please note that it isn't finished, so don't cargo-cult the code. The intention for Connect is that the first two participants are players, and further participants are observers, and when a game finishes, the winner gets to play the first observer and the loser goes to the bottom of the list. The numbers next to each player show how many games they have won in this shared activity session. However, the above isn't implemented at this stage - when one game is won, nothing further happens. This is the main reason we removed Connect from Update.1 builds some time ago. I previously asked for volunteers to work on Connect. Despite some interest, it hasn't progressed further, so I'll reiterate: Patches welcome! Regards Morgan -- Morgan Collett Collabora Ltd ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Observing games
I previously asked for volunteers to work on Connect. Despite some interest, it hasn't progressed further, so I'll reiterate: Patches welcome! Regards Morgan Once I have more time, in say a month or two, I'll continue development on PlayGo again which is a direct descendant of Connect. I'll keep in mind that you would like enhancements to propagate up the tree. - Gerard ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Observing games
On Feb 6, 2008 8:46 AM, Gerard J. Cerchio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I previously asked for volunteers to work on Connect. Despite some interest, it hasn't progressed further, so I'll reiterate: Patches welcome! Regards Morgan Once I have more time, in say a month or two, I'll continue development on PlayGo again which is a direct descendant of Connect. I'll keep in mind that you would like enhancements to propagate up the tree. - Gerard Thanks, Gerard. We have a good page on the Wiki for Activities, with links to individual projects. What would be a good way to share information on these more general development projects? Is there a page for it? Should we turn the observing functions into a shared library and have a Libraries page? We have the same issue with text-to-speech in the Speak activity. It started as a standalone activity, but makes sense to provide as an option for all activity development. Not in Draw or TamTam, perhaps, but certainly in Browse, Write, Calc, and others. -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ The best way to predict the future is to invent it.--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Observing games
Edward Cherlin wrote: On Feb 6, 2008 8:46 AM, Gerard J. Cerchio [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I previously asked for volunteers to work on Connect. Despite some interest, it hasn't progressed further, so I'll reiterate: Patches welcome! Regards Morgan Once I have more time, in say a month or two, I'll continue development on PlayGo again which is a direct descendant of Connect. I'll keep in mind that you would like enhancements to propagate up the tree. - Gerard Thanks, Gerard. We have a good page on the Wiki for Activities, with links to individual projects. What would be a good way to share information on these more general development projects? Is there a page for it? Should we turn the observing functions into a shared library and have a Libraries page? We have the same issue with text-to-speech in the Speak activity. It started as a standalone activity, but makes sense to provide as an option for all activity development. Not in Draw or TamTam, perhaps, but certainly in Browse, Write, Calc, and others. I am all for a collection of widgets that you cut and paste from a wiki page. This way there can be a lot of documentation around the code that does not bloat the git. Some functionality like a chat window would probably be moved un-modified into a framework built game application. However most of the game specific communication bits I feel must just be presented as a scaffold that the developer would drop into her code and modify to suit communication requirements of the individual project. As long as they don't break the framework, the standard widgets should be fine. I started a general documentation of Activity basics, with the intention of finding an existing page to home it or coming up with a clever new page name. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/PlayGo#PlayGo_Software Alas, I still must work for a living ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Observing games
I want the multi player version of Micropolis (SimCity) [the new one based on Python that we're developing, not the old X11/TCL/Tk multi player version] to support different roles, including observing and chatting. Some roles (like observing and commenting, or wrecking destruction by playing the monster or tornado) would be simpler and easy for young kids to play, and others would be more advanced and require more skill and trust and communication with other players. Each player who joins the activity could be shown on the map as an animated sprite (color coded of their XO user colors) which depicts their role, that they can move around on the map. For example, to just observe and comment on a game, you could fly the helicopter around, and speak to other nearby players through the PA system, but not edit the map or change the tax rate. Different roles come with their own abilities and simple focused user interfaces (playable with the game controller buttons), like editing the map with various tools. Roles could be dealt out to different players like pokemon or magic the gathering cards, and players could switch between the roles they've been dealt, instead of everyone playing in god mode with all actions available at all time. Players, possibly including observers, could vote on various issues, like building zones, changing the tax rate, electing other players into offices or jobs, like treasurer in charge of finance, demolition bulldozing, building roads, zoning land, etc. Players should be able to publish remarks (time stamped and geocoded) and articles with screen snapshots (and graphs and charts and map overlays) in the city newspaper, a blog-like journal that's saved with the game. You should be able to view all geocoded articles as icons on the map like point of interest markers, and also on a timeline with a calendar like a blog. The Micropolis journal would be something like the stories in The Sims Family Albums that you can upload to The Sims Exchange along with the game save file, to share with other players. But it would be more geographically oriented, and more like a regional newspaper than a family album. -Don Edward Cherlin wrote: While talking with Josh Waitzkin about the chess software he would like to donate, I realized that it would be very helpful if there were a way to share games on XOs not just with players, but with observers, including kibitzers who want to comment on a game in progress, or have a discussion with the other observers. This function is provided on most game servers, with the players unable to tap into the discussion channel. Chess TV in Russia especially, and weiqi/go/baduk TV and xiangqi/janggi/shogi TV in China/Korea/Japan also have expert commentators discussing games in progress, and there is a market in DVDs of commented games. What would we have to do to the XO collaboration model to make that happen? If we can do that, what would it take to extend it to games with multiple players or even teams online? Chaturanga, the earliest form of chess, was a four-way battle. Many combat card games permit fairly large matches, although I haven't seen any larger than eight players. World of Warcraft has team voice communications that the other team doesn't get to hear. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Observing games
As I recall, the Connect activitiy was set up to let the first two players play and everyone else who joined observe. -walter On 2/5/08, Don Hopkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want the multi player version of Micropolis (SimCity) [the new one based on Python that we're developing, not the old X11/TCL/Tk multi player version] to support different roles, including observing and chatting. Some roles (like observing and commenting, or wrecking destruction by playing the monster or tornado) would be simpler and easy for young kids to play, and others would be more advanced and require more skill and trust and communication with other players. Each player who joins the activity could be shown on the map as an animated sprite (color coded of their XO user colors) which depicts their role, that they can move around on the map. For example, to just observe and comment on a game, you could fly the helicopter around, and speak to other nearby players through the PA system, but not edit the map or change the tax rate. Different roles come with their own abilities and simple focused user interfaces (playable with the game controller buttons), like editing the map with various tools. Roles could be dealt out to different players like pokemon or magic the gathering cards, and players could switch between the roles they've been dealt, instead of everyone playing in god mode with all actions available at all time. Players, possibly including observers, could vote on various issues, like building zones, changing the tax rate, electing other players into offices or jobs, like treasurer in charge of finance, demolition bulldozing, building roads, zoning land, etc. Players should be able to publish remarks (time stamped and geocoded) and articles with screen snapshots (and graphs and charts and map overlays) in the city newspaper, a blog-like journal that's saved with the game. You should be able to view all geocoded articles as icons on the map like point of interest markers, and also on a timeline with a calendar like a blog. The Micropolis journal would be something like the stories in The Sims Family Albums that you can upload to The Sims Exchange along with the game save file, to share with other players. But it would be more geographically oriented, and more like a regional newspaper than a family album. -Don Edward Cherlin wrote: While talking with Josh Waitzkin about the chess software he would like to donate, I realized that it would be very helpful if there were a way to share games on XOs not just with players, but with observers, including kibitzers who want to comment on a game in progress, or have a discussion with the other observers. This function is provided on most game servers, with the players unable to tap into the discussion channel. Chess TV in Russia especially, and weiqi/go/baduk TV and xiangqi/janggi/shogi TV in China/Korea/Japan also have expert commentators discussing games in progress, and there is a market in DVDs of commented games. What would we have to do to the XO collaboration model to make that happen? If we can do that, what would it take to extend it to games with multiple players or even teams online? Chaturanga, the earliest form of chess, was a four-way battle. Many combat card games permit fairly large matches, although I haven't seen any larger than eight players. World of Warcraft has team voice communications that the other team doesn't get to hear. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Walter Bender One Laptop per Child http://laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Observing games
On Feb 5, 2008 6:37 PM, Walter Bender [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I recall, the Connect activitiy was set up to let the first two players play and everyone else who joined observe. I hadn't discovered that, because we have never had enough XOs around at one time out here. %-[ So if we have that code, it should be easy to add to other games. Excellent. Can somebody put that on a Wiki page, and link to it from a development page and the various games pages? Should we bug each of the games with this as a feature request? -walter On 2/5/08, Don Hopkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I want the multi player version of Micropolis (SimCity) [the new one based on Python that we're developing, not the old X11/TCL/Tk multi player version] to support different roles, including observing and chatting. Some roles (like observing and commenting, or wrecking destruction by playing the monster or tornado) would be simpler and easy for young kids to play, and others would be more advanced and require more skill and trust and communication with other players. Each player who joins the activity could be shown on the map as an animated sprite (color coded of their XO user colors) which depicts their role, that they can move around on the map. For example, to just observe and comment on a game, you could fly the helicopter around, and speak to other nearby players through the PA system, but not edit the map or change the tax rate. Different roles come with their own abilities and simple focused user interfaces (playable with the game controller buttons), like editing the map with various tools. Roles could be dealt out to different players like pokemon or magic the gathering cards, and players could switch between the roles they've been dealt, instead of everyone playing in god mode with all actions available at all time. Players, possibly including observers, could vote on various issues, like building zones, changing the tax rate, electing other players into offices or jobs, like treasurer in charge of finance, demolition bulldozing, building roads, zoning land, etc. Players should be able to publish remarks (time stamped and geocoded) and articles with screen snapshots (and graphs and charts and map overlays) in the city newspaper, a blog-like journal that's saved with the game. You should be able to view all geocoded articles as icons on the map like point of interest markers, and also on a timeline with a calendar like a blog. The Micropolis journal would be something like the stories in The Sims Family Albums that you can upload to The Sims Exchange along with the game save file, to share with other players. But it would be more geographically oriented, and more like a regional newspaper than a family album. -Don Edward Cherlin wrote: While talking with Josh Waitzkin about the chess software he would like to donate, I realized that it would be very helpful if there were a way to share games on XOs not just with players, but with observers, including kibitzers who want to comment on a game in progress, or have a discussion with the other observers. This function is provided on most game servers, with the players unable to tap into the discussion channel. Chess TV in Russia especially, and weiqi/go/baduk TV and xiangqi/janggi/shogi TV in China/Korea/Japan also have expert commentators discussing games in progress, and there is a market in DVDs of commented games. What would we have to do to the XO collaboration model to make that happen? If we can do that, what would it take to extend it to games with multiple players or even teams online? Chaturanga, the earliest form of chess, was a four-way battle. Many combat card games permit fairly large matches, although I haven't seen any larger than eight players. World of Warcraft has team voice communications that the other team doesn't get to hear. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Walter Bender One Laptop per Child http://laptop.org -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ The best way to predict the future is to invent it.--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
