Re: UI usability for 4 year old (was Re: Call for Papers/Talks/Ideas!)
On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 1:51 AM, K. K. Subramaniam [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is tough for young children to use trackpad like a mouse - with a single hand. Using it bi-manually with two index fingers is not only easier but also prepares them for typing on the keyboard later. The child can use one index finger (say right) on the trackpad and the other index finger (say left) to click buttons. Older children can use index fingers for the trackpad and thumbs for the buttons. Agreed, 2-index-fingers is what I have taught my 4 year old nephew. Tricky at first, but he got the hang of it quickly. Now he pilots turtleart (with its tricky drag-snap-and-drop) with confidence. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: UI usability for 4 year old (was Re: Call for Papers/Talks/Ideas!)
On Tuesday 25 Mar 2008 10:35:25 pm John R.Hogerhuis wrote: In any case, kids have a way of figuring out a way out of problems that adults would perplex an adult. Ever seen a kid succumb to analysis-paralysis ? In your place, I would just give her more time to find her own way out on how to control a computer to get things done. I understand what you're saying, but if it's a developmental issue then what you would expect (and what is happening) is that it is just outside her grasp and she gets frustrated. Then she puts the laptop away (which is within her control). It's not an issue of me letting her find her own way. We don't interfere unless she asks, and then just to read the screen to her or explain to her where to find things. Please read more time as more development time. As she grows up and develops finer control, she is sure to figure out a way. Till then, she can learn by watching others use a computer (google:mirror-neurons). My daughter, at four years, rarely used a computer and preferred to snuggle on my lap while I worked on my notebook PC. But when walked into a Mac store (at six years), she amazed me and others in the store by using a Mac, for the first time, to sketch Taj Mahal. I have also seen school kids pick up computing skills by watching their classmates. Subbu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: UI usability for 4 year old (was Re: Call for Papers/Talks/Ideas!)
On Monday 24 Mar 2008 9:50:49 am John R.Hogerhuis wrote: Based on my daughter, she does use two hands to paint. The problem is the need to constantly hold down the button (drag) while painting. With a mouse this is natural for her, but with the trackpad she has difficulty. Maybe the issue is bumping the hand, or coming close to bumping into the hand holding the button? John, This is par for the course for 4-year olds. They spend a lot of time exploring space through whole body movement and fine finger control will take time to develop. A mouse involves whole arm movement while trackpad needs fine finger controls. Trackpad is easier for the 6+ year olds. In any case, kids have a way of figuring out a way out of problems that adults would perplex an adult. Ever seen a kid succumb to analysis-paralysis :-)? In your place, I would just give her more time to find her own way out on how to control a computer to get things done. Subbu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: UI usability for 4 year old (was Re: Call for Papers/Talks/Ideas!)
John R. Hogerhuis wrote: On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 9:28 PM, Mitch Bradley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip In any case, the left and right panels can't sense fingertip pressure - you would have to use a fingernail, and that would override the signal from capacitive sensor. OK, thanks. So that idea won't fly. Holding down a keyboard key to paint or a mode change (up/down) on button press would work. Could up/down be done by pressure on the center pad? As in, move the cursor around with your finger, when you want to start dragging, push hard. When you want to stop dragging, push hard again. Then she could work it with only one finger. In principle, that would work, but in practice, the difficulty of calibrating the touchpad might make it less reliable than we would like. The XO is smaller and has less metal than an ordinary laptop, so its touchpad is rather sensitive to calibration problems on the capacitive sensor, which depends on the ratio of touchpad-to-finger vs touchpad-to-external-ground capacitance. BTW, for whoever maintains Paint activity: this is the key activity for my 4 year old. It's one of the few where the application is age appropriate since she can mostly get by with the icons (she can read and write several words now but not enough of the right ones to come close to working, say the Record application). The other activities she uses are Write and Record. Write, she just types names and words she knows, and makes patterns with letters. Record, she enjoys but needs my help to use at all because of the wordy UI. -- John. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: UI usability for 4 year old (was Re: Call for Papers/Talks/Ideas!)
. K. Subramaniam subbukk at gmail.com writes: On Sunday 23 March 2008 3:59:31 am John R.Hogerhuis wrote: .. (actually it's not all that pleasant for me either given the button placement below the trackpad). Something modal or pressure based would be better. If a key on the keyboard held down were the up/down button that would be resolution of the dexterity issue. Though, some thought would need to be given to make this discoverable. It is tough for young children to use trackpad like a mouse - with a single hand. Using it bi-manually with two index fingers is not only easier but also prepares them for typing on the keyboard later. The child can use one index finger (say right) on the trackpad and the other index finger (say left) to click buttons. Older children can use index fingers for the trackpad and thumbs for the buttons. Subbu Based on my daughter, she does use two hands to paint. The problem is the need to constantly hold down the button (drag) while painting. With a mouse this is natural for her, but with the trackpad she has difficulty. Maybe the issue is bumping the hand, or coming close to bumping into the hand holding the button? This raises another possibility though: use the left or right hand trackpad segments for the brush up/down. If she just rests her left hand/finger on the left side of the trackpad to draw, lifting it to stop drawing, that would be much easier for painting since her left hand is in a more natural position and does not interfere with the right. Are the left and right panels pressure sensitive? If so, they could be used to dynamically adjust the brush size/weight depending on how hard she pushes. -- John. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: UI usability for 4 year old (was Re: Call for Papers/Talks/Ideas!)
John R.Hogerhuis wrote: ... Are the left and right panels pressure sensitive? If so, they could be used to dynamically adjust the brush size/weight depending on how hard she pushes. You can use either the resistive sensor ( left + middle + right with stylus-class pressure) or the capacitive sensor (middle portion with fingertip), but not both at the same time. If the pad detects resistive (stylus) activity, it switches to a different mode and sends you data packets reflecting stylus activity across the surface. When the resistive activity stops, it switches back to capacitive sensing after a short delay. We originally hoped to be able to send information from both sensors simultaneously, but that proved to be *really* flaky. In any case, the left and right panels can't sense fingertip pressure - you would have to use a fingernail, and that would override the signal from capacitive sensor. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
UI usability for 4 year old (was Re: Call for Papers/Talks/Ideas!)
Marco Pesenti Gritti mpgritti at gmail.com writes: I have not seen a good analysis of the frame problem yet. For example I know that at some point the trackpad jumped to the corners very often, and that obviously aggravated it. Also in my experience the thing is nowhere so annoying on my work laptop (still using a trackpad), why? Finally, when this happen, is the mouse left still in the corner or do kids just touch the corner momentarily... It's not a problem of the cursor moving randomly. What happens to Kailea is that she'll try to get to the activity menu or the color tool at the top left hand side. Just due to lack of good control of the trackpad she ends up getting the popover frame. Once it comes up, she tries to escape the mode by randomly moving her finger on the trackpad. This doesn't usually work which raises her frustration level. On paint, specifically, a couple of other observations, now that I think about it: between Kailea, 4 and my wife (an elementary school teacher) helping her, they had difficulty figuring out how to set the color in the paint program. Maybe if the color icons had a color rainbow or something it would be more obvious. Also holding the button down and dragging as a normal operation (as it is in Paint) is a tricky concept and physically difficult in terms of dexterity for my 4 year old (actually it's not all that pleasant for me either given the button placement below the trackpad). Something modal or pressure based would be better. If a key on the keyboard held down were the up/down button that would be resolution of the dexterity issue. Though, some thought would need to be given to make this discoverable. Tomeu managed to reduce startup up time to 2-3 seconds in the faster branch using an approach similar to maemo launcher: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/maemo-launcher/README If we don't find any blocking problems with this approach, I think we can make startup pretty much instantaneous. I'll try it out. That would be a big improvement. Instantaneous would be 150-200 milliseconds, but I'd guess anything under 5 seconds would not frustrate her. Python was chosen mainly because it's a good development tool for kids. I think the few performance problem it's causing are all solvable, it's just that no one had time to focus on it until now. How is that working out in the field? I certainly agree that kids developing/altering their own tools is a fantastic idea for the =9 year olds. Are kids scripting? What is the process they go through to learn the language? I remember as a kid how I learned BASIC. The computer came with 2 1-inch thick friendly (lots of cartoons, short example programs) programming manuals that I devoured in the first 2 weeks I had the machine. Also, they used to have type-in programs in the home computer mags I got for my TRS-80 Color Computer. I'd type them in but they wouldn't work. So, I would have to walk through line by line and fix them. Looking at the code while debugging exposed me to different programming concepts like modularization (GOSUB/RETURN), keeping code organized for understandability, etc. Further the mags themselves often had introductory articles on programming, walk-throughs, ... That challenge is to make Pippy permit natural, incremental, discoverable baby steps into programming. Probably it needs to be highly integrated with html tutorials and tips Pippy meets Clippy ;-) -- John. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: UI usability for 4 year old (was Re: Call for Papers/Talks/Ideas!)
On Sunday 23 March 2008 3:59:31 am John R.Hogerhuis wrote: .. (actually it's not all that pleasant for me either given the button placement below the trackpad). Something modal or pressure based would be better. If a key on the keyboard held down were the up/down button that would be resolution of the dexterity issue. Though, some thought would need to be given to make this discoverable. It is tough for young children to use trackpad like a mouse - with a single hand. Using it bi-manually with two index fingers is not only easier but also prepares them for typing on the keyboard later. The child can use one index finger (say right) on the trackpad and the other index finger (say left) to click buttons. Older children can use index fingers for the trackpad and thumbs for the buttons. Subbu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
