Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
An aside to all about mailing list usage : please stay on-topic. Community-news is for announcements only (despite having a brief discussion earlier this week), and devel is for code and development. I'm bcc:ing devel and copying olpc-open and grassroots lists, in the hopes that this is taken up there. Ed, Darah's email isn't a brush-off, OLPC isn't doing the sort of campaigning for that bill that you propose. That is a fine thing for OLPC Chicago (or any supporter) to do. And of course we are interested in seeing it and measures like it succeed. To some of your specific points: > > > Not everyone knows everything about your project - though it's > > > interesting to hear. > > > > Not my project! Illinois's! They asked me to make contact on their behalf. Who asked you to make contact on their behalf? > > How does one invite him to State Senate Hearings? Darah or who? Does > > he have an appointments secretary? Why would you invite Nicholas to a State Senate Hearing? What would that accomplish? I have the general sense that people would like to advocate for passage of this bill in the Senate, and that there are people who would like to show up at the senate hearing, but I'm not clear on who they are, where such a trip is being organized, or what the desired outcome would be. There is clearly some support for the bill -- would you aim to cement it? To oppose expected opposition or alterations? To push for specific alterations? Advocacy needs clear purpose. Here is the bill status, for those interested: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocTypeID=HB&DocNum=5000&GAID=9&SessionID=51&LegID=35963 SJ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Try contacting [EMAIL PROTECTED] - which is handled by Darah. She > is the best first point of contact and can get things going. I don't know. It seems like the brushoff to me. Darah Tappitake to me 10:50 AM (16 hours ago) Dear Edward, Thank you for your support in the OLPC Initiative. School communities in Illinois are working with the XO laptop as a result of participation in the Give Many and Give or Get one program. Through the dedication of these local groups those programs are operating successfully. If there is new development in the HB5000 we will receive notification from the representatives at the Lieutenant Governor's office. Thank you for your support, Regards, Darah > cheers, > > > > m > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > ___ > > > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Where is Walter?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 06:14:21PM +0200, J.M. Maurer wrote: > But it did happen, so now people want to be reassured that their *very > precious spare time* will not be wasted. Please do not let present doubt stop you from using your power to advance our mutual cause. If you doubt, seek the reassurance of others or find your own, perhaps by visiting or contacting those who have already been helped by that cause. Then write what you discover and share it so that all may benefit. How could we expect less from someone who has worked so hard already to give others the power to share their writing? Michael ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Where is Walter?
On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 08:05 -0700, Joshua N Pritikin wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 04:31:30PM +0200, J.M. Maurer wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 14:05 +0200, Bobby Powers wrote: > > > Maybe we could take a break from > > > talking about the sky falling until we hear something from Negroponte > > > or someone else at 1CC regarding Windows? > > > > A clear statement on the direction of the project would be a first in > > the 1.5 years I'm involved with OLPC. I don't count on it anymore. > > If you can't see the obvious, that OLPC has invested and continues to > invest engineering talent in Sugar and related technologies, then I > can't imagine what kind of statement would reassure you. > > Until there is clear evidence to the contrary (not just rumors and wild > speculation), I think we can and should assume that OLPC continues to > march towards free software constructivist learning. Assuming/hoping that OLPC is following the aforementioned direction does not really help motivating unpaid volunteers (on which OLPC depends heavily!). If the recent media attention about a possible focus change (and for some the speculation around Ivan's and Walter's leave) did not happen, then I'd agree with you. But it did happen, so now people want to be reassured that their *very precious spare time* will not be wasted. Cheers, Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Where is Walter?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 04:31:30PM +0200, J.M. Maurer wrote: > On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 14:05 +0200, Bobby Powers wrote: > > Maybe we could take a break from > > talking about the sky falling until we hear something from Negroponte > > or someone else at 1CC regarding Windows? > > A clear statement on the direction of the project would be a first in > the 1.5 years I'm involved with OLPC. I don't count on it anymore. If you can't see the obvious, that OLPC has invested and continues to invest engineering talent in Sugar and related technologies, then I can't imagine what kind of statement would reassure you. Until there is clear evidence to the contrary (not just rumors and wild speculation), I think we can and should assume that OLPC continues to march towards free software constructivist learning. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] Where is Walter?
On Wed, 2008-04-23 at 14:05 +0200, Bobby Powers wrote: > I'm new around here, but it seems like this whole conversation is > based on a bunch of what-ifs surrounding that AP article. People > generally seem on the same page that switching to Windows and non-free > software would be a Bad Thing. Maybe we could take a break from > talking about the sky falling until we hear something from Negroponte > or someone else at 1CC regarding Windows? A clear statement on the direction of the project would be a first in the 1.5 years I'm involved with OLPC. I don't count on it anymore. Marc ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Where is Walter?
On Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:05:16 +0200 "Bobby Powers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Maybe we could take a break from talking about the sky falling until > we hear something from Negroponte or someone else at 1CC regarding Windows? I think everybody would be glad to hear an official statement and nearly everybody is wondering why we don't get one. No statement is a statement. Anyhow, neither the sugar desktop nor the educational project will die due to the great community and the free software. I am not sure if OLPC aka laptop.org will survive. best regard, yokoy -- ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: Where is Walter?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 12:13 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > This lack of transperency is *exactly* the sort of behaviour that kills > free software and other volunteer projects. People are not going to donate > their own precious time to a project that may ultimately shaft them. > > The community that OLPC has built up is global, outstanding and committed > on many, many levels. It would be almost impossible to find the people, > let alone the money, to do what has been delivered by the community > already, let alone what could be delivered in the future. > > You can't buy this community. You can only create it with an inspiring > vision and outstanding people living the vision. It is not the least bit > inspiring to be the spearhead of the latest MS and DELL sales pitch. > > Management would do everyone a grand favour by sticking with the original > vision come what may because they have no hope without the community. > > Martin Sevior I'm new around here, but it seems like this whole conversation is based on a bunch of what-ifs surrounding that AP article. People generally seem on the same page that switching to Windows and non-free software would be a Bad Thing. Maybe we could take a break from talking about the sky falling until we hear something from Negroponte or someone else at 1CC regarding Windows? Just my 2¢. yours, Bobby Powers ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 2:14 AM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Illinois, as I said somewhere in this thread, wants to put laptops > into 300 schools to start. Just a quick question, probably off-topic, but is Illinois interested in giving kids *XO's* or *laptops*? Because if Illinois is thinking "laptop computers" then neither the State of Illinois nor the OLPC educational initiative will benefit from a discussion about XO's. If you're looking for a laptop solution, then you really do need to be talking to the Dell, Apple and Microsoft crowd. OLPC can't help you there. And if you're looking to get XO's into the hands of Illinois kids, it seems to me your first task is to convince the Illinois Department of Education that a *laptop* solution is less appropriate than an *education* solution. Either way, referring to the XO as a laptop is a lose-lose situation. -- Steve Holton [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter?
2008/4/23 Martin Edmund Sevior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I've stayed away from this discussion until now. But for my own part, if the > OLPC becomes just another laptop running "standard" educational software of > the kind that inhabits my daughters primary school, I'm no longer interested > in the project. > > I really bought into the "new paradigm" of pervasive collaboration and > constructionist education. I'm not particularly interested in a cheap laptop > clone and in any case I guess my own work on Write and abicollab will be > ditched for some stripped down version of MS Word. > > It would nice to know if this is the new vision or not. If it is the new > vision I can stop wasting my time here. > > Martin Sevior In case people don't know Martin's work on OLPC (I think he's not very vocal about his achievements), he designed and implemented along Marc Maurer (uwog) the technology behind the collaboration feature of Write, AbiCollab. I believe this feature has had a big impact in showing the collaboration focus of Sugar. http://www.abisource.com/wiki/AbiCollab http://msevior.livejournal.com/21245.html If OLPC fails to understand what it takes to maintain such enthusiastic contributors on board, we're pretty much doomed. Is Microsoft going to provide those features that bring enormous value to education? Or translate its software to every language on earth? Call me fundamentalist, but I don't see how proprietary software can fulfill our educational goals. Regards, Tomeu ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter?
Hi all, in general I *think* we should be careful with interviews and information out there on the net. Information with 'sugar on windows' seems odd to me at least when it comes with no further explanation what this exactly would mean. So we should not take decisions on 50% speculation, and 50% of possible misinformation. However a clear statement from the management side would be very useful to calm this thread down and clear this situation. I hope that OLPC and in particular it's community is not taking too much damage these days. Have in mind that this kind of damage is hard to cure. Best, Simon Martin Edmund Sevior wrote: > I've stayed away from this discussion until now. But for my own part, if the > OLPC becomes just another laptop running "standard" educational software of > the kind that inhabits my daughters primary school, I'm no longer interested > in the project. > > I really bought into the "new paradigm" of pervasive collaboration and > constructionist education. I'm not particularly interested in a cheap laptop > clone and in any case I guess my own work on Write and abicollab will be > ditched for some stripped down version of MS Word. > > It would nice to know if this is the new vision or not. If it is the new > vision I can stop wasting my time here. > > Martin Sevior > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Stephen John Smoogen > Sent: Wed 4/23/2008 1:18 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: sugar; devel-list; Walter Bender; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter? > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Stephen John Smoogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Chris Preimesberger >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > Walter, you have been a shining light of good information for all this >> > time, and it's sad to see you pull away from the project. Sad to see >> > the project melting away, too -- at least that's my impression. >> > >> >> One standard thing I have seen is that every project goes through >> these cycles. Developers/leaders leave a company, project or group >> and the people who identified the project with those people post that >> the project as "shriveling up and dying". I remember people saying >> this of Debian, early Linux kernel development, Red Hat, SuSE, GNOME, >> KDE, etc. Sometimes its true, but mostly its a gut reaction because >> our brains are wired to identify with 'leaders' for our survival. If >> our leaders leave the tribe.. we should go with them. Its a deep urge >> we all have but it is rarely rooted in 'reality' but in the minds way >> of coming up with 'reasons'. >> >> I am just commenting on this because its something I have seen over >> and over again with companies, projects, and groups.. and it >> interested me why one day I was all happy to be working for a company >> and 2 days later was ready to leave because it was going to crap when >> a developer I worked under left. >> >> The big thing I learned was that companies, projects, groups, etc >> change constantly, and people who thrive under some conditions >> deteriorate under others.. and have to leave. And when that happens, >> there are a lot of psychological shifts in the group where other >> people stay and leave because various 'leaders' stayed or left.. in >> some cases you end up with large scisms where people will no longer >> talk with each other, and in other cases you have people agreeing to >> disagree on where each group is going. >> > > On the other hand, comments from the AP article can make me eat crow :) > > http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hXa0O9XLMsWfaqt-sI9FqFy2IewgD9074MH82 > > For about a year, however, Microsoft has been working to get a > slimmed-down version of Windows to run on XO laptops. As a result, > Negroponte said Tuesday that he expects XOs to soon have a "dual-boot" > option, meaning users would be able to run Windows or Sugar. > > One current hang-up is whether the necessary hardware would add $7 to > $12 to an XO's cost, taking the project even further away from its > eventual goal of producing the machines for less than $100. > Eventually, Negroponte added, Windows might be the sole operating > system, and Sugar would be educational software running on top of it. > > > > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Martin Langhoff > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > What's this hostility about? Does it accomplish something? > > > > > > Not everyone knows everything about your project - though it's > > > interesting to hear. > > > > Not my project! Illinois's! They asked me to make contact on their behalf. > > Apologies. I am just trying to help. > > > > There are regular channels? Why hasn't anybody told me of this before? > > Apparently there is - I didn't know either - I think it's the same > path you get through if you go to the givemany page, which is also > routed to Darah. This is a rather organic organization, not a top down > formal thing. When I tried the GiveMany address, it went to BrightStar, which has other problems. > > > People like NN tend to be swamped > > > > How does one invite him to State Senate Hearings? Darah or who? Does > > he have an appointments secretary? > > Like any other project lead/figurehead I know -- with persistence and > patience. > > > > > - again, try > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Done. Thanks. > > Cool. She's the best point of contact, and can escalate your request. > Bear in mind there are lots :-) > > > > > We are working quite amicably with NYC DoE, so I think it's just a > > > matter of taking things slowly and talking with Darah first :-) > > > > Which we is that? OLPC? OLPC New York? I'll get OLPC Chicago to talk > > to OLPC NY in any case. > > OLPC Foundation -- I have visited NYC with Wad to coordinate trials. > Note that pilots do take time from OLPC, and we can't say yes to all > people as we do have our resource constraints. But if you can be a bit > patient, I'm sure we;ll work something out. Thank you. When would you like to visit Chicago and Springfield? Illinois, as I said somewhere in this thread, wants to put laptops into 300 schools to start. From their 2009 budget presentation: # of Public School Students (2006-07) – 2,077,856 # of Public School Districts (2006-07) – 871 # of Public School Teachers (2006-07) – 137,481 Average Operating Expense per Pupil (2005-06) –$9,488 > cheers, > > > > m > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:31 PM, Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:20:22PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > Suppose you were to do that. What would you actually change? I mean, I > > > don't see an imminent threat to Sugar and the constructivist Activity > > > ideal besides the recent AP article and rampant rumors. > > > > If Negroponte were to drop Linux and Open Firmware, then all of that > > would fall to the forked project. If Microsoft wanted to push > > proprietary educational software, then the Activities would be forked > > as well. Presumably a lot of OLPC volunteers would walk. I'm > > suggesting a place for them to walk to. I expect that Red Hat and > > Ubuntu would support the fork, and I would have good hopes for Google. > > Oh yah, I would follow the fork as well. > > All I'm saying is that NOTHING OF THE KIND HAS HAPPENED YET! > > If, yes, if the rumors are very much publically and overtly confirmed by > everybody at OLPC ... THEN it would be an appropriate time to initiate a > fork. > > So far, it's all speculation and rumors emanating the insalubrious > stench of fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD). > > Just to be on the safe side, you are welcome to make thorough backups of > the current code base whenever you feel a justified or unjustified > twinge of nervousness. > > Can we end this thread now? OK by me. -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:29 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Martin Langhoff > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > What's this hostility about? Does it accomplish something? > > > > Not everyone knows everything about your project - though it's > > interesting to hear. > > Not my project! Illinois's! They asked me to make contact on their behalf. Apologies. I am just trying to help. > There are regular channels? Why hasn't anybody told me of this before? Apparently there is - I didn't know either - I think it's the same path you get through if you go to the givemany page, which is also routed to Darah. This is a rather organic organization, not a top down formal thing. > > People like NN tend to be swamped > > How does one invite him to State Senate Hearings? Darah or who? Does > he have an appointments secretary? Like any other project lead/figurehead I know -- with persistence and patience. > > - again, try > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Done. Thanks. Cool. She's the best point of contact, and can escalate your request. Bear in mind there are lots :-) > > We are working quite amicably with NYC DoE, so I think it's just a > > matter of taking things slowly and talking with Darah first :-) > > Which we is that? OLPC? OLPC New York? I'll get OLPC Chicago to talk > to OLPC NY in any case. OLPC Foundation -- I have visited NYC with Wad to coordinate trials. Note that pilots do take time from OLPC, and we can't say yes to all people as we do have our resource constraints. But if you can be a bit patient, I'm sure we;ll work something out. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:20:22PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Suppose you were to do that. What would you actually change? I mean, I > > don't see an imminent threat to Sugar and the constructivist Activity > > ideal besides the recent AP article and rampant rumors. > > If Negroponte were to drop Linux and Open Firmware, then all of that > would fall to the forked project. If Microsoft wanted to push > proprietary educational software, then the Activities would be forked > as well. Presumably a lot of OLPC volunteers would walk. I'm > suggesting a place for them to walk to. I expect that Red Hat and > Ubuntu would support the fork, and I would have good hopes for Google. Oh yah, I would follow the fork as well. All I'm saying is that NOTHING OF THE KIND HAS HAPPENED YET! If, yes, if the rumors are very much publically and overtly confirmed by everybody at OLPC ... THEN it would be an appropriate time to initiate a fork. So far, it's all speculation and rumors emanating the insalubrious stench of fear, uncertainty, and doubt (FUD). Just to be on the safe side, you are welcome to make thorough backups of the current code base whenever you feel a justified or unjustified twinge of nervousness. Can we end this thread now? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:13 PM, Martin Langhoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What's this hostility about? Does it accomplish something? > > Not everyone knows everything about your project - though it's > interesting to hear. Not my project! Illinois's! They asked me to make contact on their behalf. > Regardless of project size, getting hold of key people at a large > project is usually not a winning strategy -- try going through the > regular channels. There are regular channels? Why hasn't anybody told me of this before? > People like NN tend to be swamped How does one invite him to State Senate Hearings? Darah or who? Does he have an appointments secretary? When I asked Walter Bender about such things before he left, he said he was out of the loop. Kim Quirk told me that Illinois isn't in the OLPC mission. There is no CEO, after a search of more than a year. So who's in charge here? > - again, try > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Done. Thanks. > > Illinois wants to spend $50 million in a pilot project to put laptops > > into 300 schools, a project bigger than all of Give One Get One, and I > > can't the time of day from management. The official line is that > > Illinois doesn't count. Only getting XOs to poor kids in developing > > countries counts. > > We are working quite amicably with NYC DoE, so I think it's just a > matter of taking things slowly and talking with Darah first :-) Which we is that? OLPC? OLPC New York? I'll get OLPC Chicago to talk to OLPC NY in any case. > cheers, > > > > m > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect > - ask interesting questions > - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first > - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff > -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter?
On Tue, 22 Apr 2008, Edward Cherlin wrote: > 2008/4/22 Martin Edmund Sevior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >> >> I've stayed away from this discussion until now. But for my own part, if the >> OLPC becomes just another laptop running "standard" educational software of >> the kind that inhabits my daughters primary school, I'm no longer interested >> in the project. > > Hear, hear! > >> I really bought into the "new paradigm" of pervasive collaboration and >> constructionist education. I'm not particularly interested in a cheap laptop >> clone and in any case I guess my own work on Write and abicollab will be >> ditched for some stripped down version of MS Word. >> >> It would nice to know if this is the new vision or not. If it is the new >> vision I can stop wasting my time here. > > You can join the imminent fork of Sugar, and we can continue to do it > right. It won't be the first time that an entire team has deserted an > Open Source project leader, as Bruce Perens himself can tell you. He > says that in several cases where a team left him, they were right and > he was wrong. If there is a fork, I would hope that it's not just a 'official OLPC' vs 'the old OLPC software' fork. it need to split the existing OLPC software into seperate system and userspace pieces. Sugar in an innovative approach to the UI, but there are lots of things about it that don't work well yet (the 7 seconds to start a trivial app through sugar, vs <1 sec outside of sugar for example) I also think that the set of people who do very good work at the system level doesn't overlap much with the set of people who do very good work at the uer level, so seperating the two could let each group focus on what they're good at more and make faster progress. for example, the current discussion about backups seems odd to me. from a system level there should be a half dozen backup implementations (especially since you know exactly where the data you need to backup and restore is). ideally these implementations would then each get a trivial GUI face added to them, and users could either choose between them, or the UI team(s) could pick the one that they like best for their 'feel' and enhance it. instead there are a handful of partial scripts that nobody seems eager to work on becouse they can't be used without full integration into the GUI. the XO hardware in extremely impressive (I have two of them, a roomate has a third, and I would probably buy more if I could), but I have been very disappointed with the software. the good news is that the XO specific modifications are finally getting into the valilla kernel, and as they get there I will be able to consider ditching sugar/fedora and switch to other distros that will work better. I hope that Mary Lou is making good progress with her new machines, as I look forward to more great choices in the future. David Lang ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:10 PM, Joshua N Pritikin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 09:58:20PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: > > 2008/4/22 Martin Edmund Sevior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > I really bought into the "new paradigm" of pervasive collaboration and > > > constructionist education. I'm not particularly interested in a cheap > laptop > > > clone and in any case I guess my own work on Write and abicollab will be > > > ditched for some stripped down version of MS Word. > > > You can join the imminent fork of Sugar, and we can continue to do it > > right. > > Suppose you were to do that. What would you actually change? I mean, I > don't see an imminent threat to Sugar and the constructivist Activity > ideal besides the recent AP article and rampant rumors. If Negroponte were to drop Linux and Open Firmware, then all of that would fall to the forked project. If Microsoft wanted to push proprietary educational software, then the Activities would be forked as well. Presumably a lot of OLPC volunteers would walk. I'm suggesting a place for them to walk to. I expect that Red Hat and Ubuntu would support the fork, and I would have good hopes for Google. > On the other hand, by all means, go ahead and set up a mirror for > http://laptop.org servers and invite people to submit patches, if you > believe that will help grow the community. Save it from destruction, rather. Anyway, not yet. But yes, git, Trac, Pootle, Wiki, lists... I'm asking others here what they think. -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:54 PM, Edward Cherlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What's this hostility about? Does it accomplish something? Not everyone knows everything about your project - though it's interesting to hear. Regardless of project size, getting hold of key people at a large project is usually not a winning strategy -- try going through the regular channels. People like NN tend to be swamped - again, try [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Illinois wants to spend $50 million in a pilot project to put laptops > into 300 schools, a project bigger than all of Give One Get One, and I > can't the time of day from management. The official line is that > Illinois doesn't count. Only getting XOs to poor kids in developing > countries counts. We are working quite amicably with NYC DoE, so I think it's just a matter of taking things slowly and talking with Darah first :-) cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 09:58:20PM -0700, Edward Cherlin wrote: > 2008/4/22 Martin Edmund Sevior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I really bought into the "new paradigm" of pervasive collaboration and > > constructionist education. I'm not particularly interested in a cheap laptop > > clone and in any case I guess my own work on Write and abicollab will be > > ditched for some stripped down version of MS Word. > > You can join the imminent fork of Sugar, and we can continue to do it > right. Suppose you were to do that. What would you actually change? I mean, I don't see an imminent threat to Sugar and the constructivist Activity ideal besides the recent AP article and rampant rumors. On the other hand, by all means, go ahead and set up a mirror for http://laptop.org servers and invite people to submit patches, if you believe that will help grow the community. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter?
2008/4/22 Martin Edmund Sevior <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > I've stayed away from this discussion until now. But for my own part, if the > OLPC becomes just another laptop running "standard" educational software of > the kind that inhabits my daughters primary school, I'm no longer interested > in the project. Hear, hear! > I really bought into the "new paradigm" of pervasive collaboration and > constructionist education. I'm not particularly interested in a cheap laptop > clone and in any case I guess my own work on Write and abicollab will be > ditched for some stripped down version of MS Word. > > It would nice to know if this is the new vision or not. If it is the new > vision I can stop wasting my time here. You can join the imminent fork of Sugar, and we can continue to do it right. It won't be the first time that an entire team has deserted an Open Source project leader, as Bruce Perens himself can tell you. He says that in several cases where a team left him, they were right and he was wrong. > Martin Sevior > > > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Stephen John Smoogen > Sent: Wed 4/23/2008 1:18 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: sugar; devel-list; Walter Bender; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter? > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Stephen John Smoogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Chris Preimesberger > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Walter, you have been a shining light of good information for all this > > > time, and it's sad to see you pull away from the project. Sad to see > > > the project melting away, too -- at least that's my impression. > > > > > > > One standard thing I have seen is that every project goes through > > these cycles. Developers/leaders leave a company, project or group > > and the people who identified the project with those people post that > > the project as "shriveling up and dying". I remember people saying > > this of Debian, early Linux kernel development, Red Hat, SuSE, GNOME, > > KDE, etc. Sometimes its true, but mostly its a gut reaction because > > our brains are wired to identify with 'leaders' for our survival. If > > our leaders leave the tribe.. we should go with them. Its a deep urge > > we all have but it is rarely rooted in 'reality' but in the minds way > > of coming up with 'reasons'. > > > > I am just commenting on this because its something I have seen over > > and over again with companies, projects, and groups.. and it > > interested me why one day I was all happy to be working for a company > > and 2 days later was ready to leave because it was going to crap when > > a developer I worked under left. > > > > The big thing I learned was that companies, projects, groups, etc > > change constantly, and people who thrive under some conditions > > deteriorate under others.. and have to leave. And when that happens, > > there are a lot of psychological shifts in the group where other > > people stay and leave because various 'leaders' stayed or left.. in > > some cases you end up with large scisms where people will no longer > > talk with each other, and in other cases you have people agreeing to > > disagree on where each group is going. > > > > On the other hand, comments from the AP article can make me eat crow :) > > http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hXa0O9XLMsWfaqt-sI9FqFy2IewgD9074MH82 > > For about a year, however, Microsoft has been working to get a > slimmed-down version of Windows to run on XO laptops. As a result, > Negroponte said Tuesday that he expects XOs to soon have a "dual-boot" > option, meaning users would be able to run Windows or Sugar. > > One current hang-up is whether the necessary hardware would add $7 to > $12 to an XO's cost, taking the project even further away from its > eventual goal of producing the machines for less than $100. > Eventually, Negroponte added, Windows might be the sole operating > system, and Sugar would be educational software running on top of it. > > > -- > Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator > How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed > in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" > ___ > Sugar mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 12:10 PM, Wes Kussmaul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Edward Cherlin wrote: > > > I recently wrote to Nicholas about Illinois HB5000, the Children's > > Low-Cost Laptop Act, and received no reply. > > Yeah, I know the feeling. I recently wrote to the CEO of General Motors > about customizing my minivan for my work and > didn't hear back either... What's this hostility about? Does it accomplish something? > OLPC now has a big installed base and that means its leadership has lots of > pressing responsibilities. It's leaving the > collegial club behind as it undergoes the wrenching transformation into a > global enterprise. Illinois wants to spend $50 million in a pilot project to put laptops into 300 schools, a project bigger than all of Give One Get One, and I can't the time of day from management. The official line is that Illinois doesn't count. Only getting XOs to poor kids in developing countries counts. > Your Earth Treasury has worthwhile and compatible goals - as do some > hundreds of other OLPC related organizations. If in > that environment you manage to get some of Nicholas's time and attention you > should consider yourself lucky. Not me and my piddly little NGO, the State of Illinois! They are the ones being stiffed. Barack Obama has proposed increasing US foreign aid to $50 billion annually, including a $2 billion Global Education Fund. What is he going to hear from his political friends in Illinois about OLPC? > Wes Kussmaul > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 7:10 AM, Wes Kussmaul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Edward Cherlin wrote: > > > I recently wrote to Nicholas about Illinois HB5000, the Children's > > Low-Cost Laptop Act, and received no reply. > > Yeah, I know the feeling. I recently wrote to the CEO of General Motors > about customizing my minivan for my work and > didn't hear back either... :-) Try contacting [EMAIL PROTECTED] - which is handled by Darah. She is the best first point of contact and can get things going. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter?
I've stayed away from this discussion until now. But for my own part, if the OLPC becomes just another laptop running "standard" educational software of the kind that inhabits my daughters primary school, I'm no longer interested in the project. I really bought into the "new paradigm" of pervasive collaboration and constructionist education. I'm not particularly interested in a cheap laptop clone and in any case I guess my own work on Write and abicollab will be ditched for some stripped down version of MS Word. It would nice to know if this is the new vision or not. If it is the new vision I can stop wasting my time here. Martin Sevior -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Stephen John Smoogen Sent: Wed 4/23/2008 1:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: sugar; devel-list; Walter Bender; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [sugar] [Community-news] where is Walter? On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Stephen John Smoogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Chris Preimesberger > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Walter, you have been a shining light of good information for all this > > time, and it's sad to see you pull away from the project. Sad to see > > the project melting away, too -- at least that's my impression. > > > > One standard thing I have seen is that every project goes through > these cycles. Developers/leaders leave a company, project or group > and the people who identified the project with those people post that > the project as "shriveling up and dying". I remember people saying > this of Debian, early Linux kernel development, Red Hat, SuSE, GNOME, > KDE, etc. Sometimes its true, but mostly its a gut reaction because > our brains are wired to identify with 'leaders' for our survival. If > our leaders leave the tribe.. we should go with them. Its a deep urge > we all have but it is rarely rooted in 'reality' but in the minds way > of coming up with 'reasons'. > > I am just commenting on this because its something I have seen over > and over again with companies, projects, and groups.. and it > interested me why one day I was all happy to be working for a company > and 2 days later was ready to leave because it was going to crap when > a developer I worked under left. > > The big thing I learned was that companies, projects, groups, etc > change constantly, and people who thrive under some conditions > deteriorate under others.. and have to leave. And when that happens, > there are a lot of psychological shifts in the group where other > people stay and leave because various 'leaders' stayed or left.. in > some cases you end up with large scisms where people will no longer > talk with each other, and in other cases you have people agreeing to > disagree on where each group is going. > On the other hand, comments from the AP article can make me eat crow :) http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hXa0O9XLMsWfaqt-sI9FqFy2IewgD9074MH82 For about a year, however, Microsoft has been working to get a slimmed-down version of Windows to run on XO laptops. As a result, Negroponte said Tuesday that he expects XOs to soon have a "dual-boot" option, meaning users would be able to run Windows or Sugar. One current hang-up is whether the necessary hardware would add $7 to $12 to an XO's cost, taking the project even further away from its eventual goal of producing the machines for less than $100. Eventually, Negroponte added, Windows might be the sole operating system, and Sugar would be educational software running on top of it. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" ___ Sugar mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
RE: [Community-news] where is Walter?
Walter, As someone who only knows you recently I am sorry to hear that you will be ‘redirecting’ your work with OLPC. I’ve appreciated your help in getting me more involved with the program, and look forward to my current collaboration with Tom Boonsiri. As a teacher who is not involved with the everyday intricacies of development I can well imagine the amount of energy that you spend, and appreciate the enormous job that you have done. However, as an educator (of 12 and 13 year olds) I can tell you that your effort is paying off! My kids love the XO and the ability to “play’ with open source, and better yet communicate with each other. We have a generation here who is comfortable with this medium, and I for one want to keep encouraging this platform. Please include me in any new projects that you may be involved with, during this next phase of your ‘career’. You have an ardent fan here on the West Coast, and definitely an advocate for open-source. Best, -Kassie Petrick > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:22:04 -0400 > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > CC: devel@lists.laptop.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Community-news] where is Walter? > > After more than two years without a break at One Laptop per Child, I > have decided to take some time to reflect on how I can best contribute > going forward to the goal of giving children around the world > opportunities for a quality learning experience. The OLPC Association > is making headway getting laptops into the hands of children and it is > encouraging to see that other non-profit and for-profit organizations > are following suit. My personal interest is in helping build a > community of developers, educators, and learners dedicated to > advancing the quality of free and open source software for learning > and the sharing of pedagogical approaches in this community by > adopting the spirit and methodology of the open-source movement. > > While my goal is to create a complementary effort to broaden the reach > of the software and pedagogy--a free and open framework in support of > "learning learning", I hope to continue working with the great team at > OLPC as well as the various groups that have formed around the world > in support of one-laptop-per-child deployments. > > Thank you for all of your support over the past two years and for all > the feedback and encouragement you have given me. > > regards. > > -walter > ___ > Community-news mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/community-news _ Back to work after baby–how do you know when you’re ready? http://lifestyle.msn.com/familyandparenting/articleNW.aspx?cp-documentid=5797498&ocid=T067MSN40A0701A ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] [sugar] where is Walter?
Edward Cherlin wrote: > I recently wrote to Nicholas about Illinois HB5000, the Children's > Low-Cost Laptop Act, and received no reply. Yeah, I know the feeling. I recently wrote to the CEO of General Motors about customizing my minivan for my work and didn't hear back either... OLPC now has a big installed base and that means its leadership has lots of pressing responsibilities. It's leaving the collegial club behind as it undergoes the wrenching transformation into a global enterprise. Your Earth Treasury has worthwhile and compatible goals - as do some hundreds of other OLPC related organizations. If in that environment you manage to get some of Nicholas's time and attention you should consider yourself lucky. Wes Kussmaul ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] where is Walter?
Hoi, the most imporant thing is that we are left with a sense of gratitude of all the great things the leaders that have left have done. In this way we know the history of the project. We also remember that the people who left did good.. and we cherish them for it. We still need to move on and make sure that we do what we aim to do.,, It is gratifying that all roads lead to Rome ... Thanks Walter, thank you all, GerardM On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 6:58 PM, Stephen John Smoogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Chris Preimesberger > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Walter, you have been a shining light of good information for all this > > time, and it's sad to see you pull away from the project. Sad to see > > the project melting away, too -- at least that's my impression. > > > > One standard thing I have seen is that every project goes through > these cycles. Developers/leaders leave a company, project or group > and the people who identified the project with those people post that > the project as "shriveling up and dying". I remember people saying > this of Debian, early Linux kernel development, Red Hat, SuSE, GNOME, > KDE, etc. Sometimes its true, but mostly its a gut reaction because > our brains are wired to identify with 'leaders' for our survival. If > our leaders leave the tribe.. we should go with them. Its a deep urge > we all have but it is rarely rooted in 'reality' but in the minds way > of coming up with 'reasons'. > > I am just commenting on this because its something I have seen over > and over again with companies, projects, and groups.. and it > interested me why one day I was all happy to be working for a company > and 2 days later was ready to leave because it was going to crap when > a developer I worked under left. > > The big thing I learned was that companies, projects, groups, etc > change constantly, and people who thrive under some conditions > deteriorate under others.. and have to leave. And when that happens, > there are a lot of psychological shifts in the group where other > people stay and leave because various 'leaders' stayed or left.. in > some cases you end up with large scisms where people will no longer > talk with each other, and in other cases you have people agreeing to > disagree on where each group is going. > > > > -- > Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator > How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed > in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" > ___ > Community-news mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/community-news > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:58 AM, Stephen John Smoogen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Chris Preimesberger > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Walter, you have been a shining light of good information for all this > > time, and it's sad to see you pull away from the project. Sad to see > > the project melting away, too -- at least that's my impression. > > > > One standard thing I have seen is that every project goes through > these cycles. Developers/leaders leave a company, project or group > and the people who identified the project with those people post that > the project as "shriveling up and dying". I remember people saying > this of Debian, early Linux kernel development, Red Hat, SuSE, GNOME, > KDE, etc. Sometimes its true, but mostly its a gut reaction because > our brains are wired to identify with 'leaders' for our survival. If > our leaders leave the tribe.. we should go with them. Its a deep urge > we all have but it is rarely rooted in 'reality' but in the minds way > of coming up with 'reasons'. > > I am just commenting on this because its something I have seen over > and over again with companies, projects, and groups.. and it > interested me why one day I was all happy to be working for a company > and 2 days later was ready to leave because it was going to crap when > a developer I worked under left. > > The big thing I learned was that companies, projects, groups, etc > change constantly, and people who thrive under some conditions > deteriorate under others.. and have to leave. And when that happens, > there are a lot of psychological shifts in the group where other > people stay and leave because various 'leaders' stayed or left.. in > some cases you end up with large scisms where people will no longer > talk with each other, and in other cases you have people agreeing to > disagree on where each group is going. > On the other hand, comments from the AP article can make me eat crow :) http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hXa0O9XLMsWfaqt-sI9FqFy2IewgD9074MH82 For about a year, however, Microsoft has been working to get a slimmed-down version of Windows to run on XO laptops. As a result, Negroponte said Tuesday that he expects XOs to soon have a "dual-boot" option, meaning users would be able to run Windows or Sugar. One current hang-up is whether the necessary hardware would add $7 to $12 to an XO's cost, taking the project even further away from its eventual goal of producing the machines for less than $100. Eventually, Negroponte added, Windows might be the sole operating system, and Sugar would be educational software running on top of it. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Drew Hess <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > OLPC has increased funding and resources in 2008 toward a continued > > commitment to helping kids in the least developed countries through > > deployment of XOs and Sugar. I don't think there is any shriveling or dying > > going on here. > > It's reassuring to hear that Sugar (and, presumably, GNU/Linux) is > part of the commitment for 2008, at least. > > Can someone from OLPC give a straightforward statement regarding > OLPC's longer-term commitments to deploying Sugar, GNU/Linux and free > software in general? I don't think you'll see such a straightforward statement because OLPC is primarily an *education* project. Free software is important to its education goals, but the project has (to date) underdelivered on its potential, resulting in a system which is significantly inferior to proprietary alternatives on several axes: stability, speed, features, and has not adequately delivered on the power management and mesh networking technologies necessary to distinguish OLPC from these alternatives. (That said, there is a lot which OLPC's software stack does which the proprietary alternatives do not: comprehensive focus on children and teachers being foremost.) So, OLPC is working very very hard to address this. But the management is keeping cards in its hands in case the ultimate *education* goals of OLPC will be better served by a different software stack. Obviously, there are many of us who feel that the free software alternative will be better in the long run. But we need to *show* this.OLPC is funding Sugar aggressively (more than doubling the number of in-house software developers this year, for example); but we're under the gun to actually *deliver*. All of you on the list can help us. If you care about free software on the XO, we need to continue to make it the *best* alternative. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Community-news] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 10:04 AM, Chris Preimesberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Walter, you have been a shining light of good information for all this > time, and it's sad to see you pull away from the project. Sad to see > the project melting away, too -- at least that's my impression. > One standard thing I have seen is that every project goes through these cycles. Developers/leaders leave a company, project or group and the people who identified the project with those people post that the project as "shriveling up and dying". I remember people saying this of Debian, early Linux kernel development, Red Hat, SuSE, GNOME, KDE, etc. Sometimes its true, but mostly its a gut reaction because our brains are wired to identify with 'leaders' for our survival. If our leaders leave the tribe.. we should go with them. Its a deep urge we all have but it is rarely rooted in 'reality' but in the minds way of coming up with 'reasons'. I am just commenting on this because its something I have seen over and over again with companies, projects, and groups.. and it interested me why one day I was all happy to be working for a company and 2 days later was ready to leave because it was going to crap when a developer I worked under left. The big thing I learned was that companies, projects, groups, etc change constantly, and people who thrive under some conditions deteriorate under others.. and have to leave. And when that happens, there are a lot of psychological shifts in the group where other people stay and leave because various 'leaders' stayed or left.. in some cases you end up with large scisms where people will no longer talk with each other, and in other cases you have people agreeing to disagree on where each group is going. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- CSIRT/Linux System Administrator How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
Edward Cherlin wrote: > Basically, the impression that outsiders get is of imperial rule > by Nicholas Negroponte, with no sense that the workers or the public > deserve to be informed of anything until after the decisions have all > been made, and made wrongly. > What's so imperial about the United State's occupation of Iraq and pending invasions of Iran and the Hague? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm_mark] Oh sorry, I had Nicholas confused with his brother, John. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Negroponte http://www.chomsky.info/articles/20040806.htm http://public.cq.com/public/20060303_homeland.html http://www.mayispeakfreely.org/index.php?gSec=doc&doc_id=10 -Don ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Michael Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 05:54:13PM -0500, Joe Barr wrote: > > It really sucks to see OLPC shriveling up and dying. > > Joe, > > It's good for people who have been unable to reconcile their differences > with one another to separate themselves, to recuperate, and eventually, > to re-engage one another with fresh insight and perspective. Also, while > I sorely miss Ivan's and Walter's constant presence and advice, I remain > confident that they will find ways, large and small, to educate and to > empower those who are ignorant and powerless. > > Michael > > What in this description of events leads you to the conclusion that OLPC > is "shriveling up and dying"? Not this situation by itself, but the extrapolation of the climate in which a number of OLPC's best people can't stand to work there any more. Basically, the impression that outsiders get is of imperial rule by Nicholas Negroponte, with no sense that the workers or the public deserve to be informed of anything until after the decisions have all been made, and made wrongly. I recently wrote to Nicholas about Illinois HB5000, the Children's Low-Cost Laptop Act, and received no reply. Illinois Lieutenant Governor Pat Quinn's office is taking the lead on this bill, and OLPC Chicago is in direct contact with them and with the Legislature, but we are frozen out of the OLPC process. I don't like the thought of Nicholas and I and other OLPC Chicago members all turning up to testify before the Illinois Senate's Education Committee without prior consultation. -- Edward Cherlin End Poverty at a Profit by teaching children business http://www.EarthTreasury.org/ "The best way to predict the future is to invent it."--Alan Kay ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
2008/4/21 Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > OLPC has increased funding and resources in 2008 toward a continued > commitment to helping kids in the least developed countries through > deployment of XOs and Sugar. I don't think there is any shriveling or dying > going on here. Like many people who live in what you've described as "least developed countries", I welcome your efforts to make the world a better place. But at the same time, it is important for people donating money, time, effort to make sure none of that is wasted. It would be lovely to see more transparency in how OLPC is using its "increased funding and resources" and where that money is coming from and going to. Thanks, jaya ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
On Tue, Apr 22, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 22.04.2008 02:13, Michael Stone wrote: > > What in this description of events leads you to the conclusion that OLPC > > is "shriveling up and dying"? > Perhaps not shriveling up, but quite a few contributors/participants > from the early days (pre-A-Test till B2-Test) have left and the > perceived goals and principles of the project have changed considerably > as well. One major thing is changing right now -- and *is* changing the organisation deeply. Initially, it was all R&D, you could change (or plan to change) anything in the system. Now, very quickly hundreds of thousands of laptops are being deployed. It is a completely different world, and different way of working. Things have changed a bit, and I expect them to change some more, based on my experience with other projects that have gone through similar (but slower) phase-changes. (In the case of OLPC, I missed all the fun R&D days, but that is ok with me, I can handle the "maintenance and organic evolution" phase just fine. Others find the constraints of having a large installed base crippling, I find them stimulating: my changes will be in the hands of real users. Not maybe, not in a projection, but in very real life. Scary, and thrilling!) > But I see a chance to bring that culture back once the immense pressure > on the "core team" (for lack of a better name) diminishes and update.2 > is released. Let's hope for the best. We are under a lot of stress with the changing times. That's spot on :-) -- but I think it's worth it. cheers, m -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: where is Walter?
On Apr 21, 2008, at 9:34 PM, Carl-Daniel Hailfinger wrote: > The general climate is much less friendly to criticism, and I see the > recent USENIX paper debate as a prime example. That paper has been > criticised and ridiculed on various grounds instead of addressing the > issues it brought up. The paper in question was sloppy and unclear, but I'm still planning to address it in detail. > We claim to have stellar security based on the > official Bitfrost spec, yet lots of that spec are unimplemented. I've internally urged the company to adopt drastically more transparency about the state of the project than it has, to little avail. Bitfrost is an idea which went through several states of implementation and was set back due to politics, lack of manpower and other pressures, and at least once dramatically. For reasons too distasteful to recount, I personally haven't worked on OLPC security for about my last 8-10 months with the company, which didn't exactly do wonders for keeping me happy. -- Ivan Krstić <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | http://radian.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
On 22.04.2008 02:13, Michael Stone wrote: > What in this description of events leads you to the conclusion that OLPC > is "shriveling up and dying"? > Perhaps not shriveling up, but quite a few contributors/participants from the early days (pre-A-Test till B2-Test) have left and the perceived goals and principles of the project have changed considerably as well. The general climate is much less friendly to criticism, and I see the recent USENIX paper debate as a prime example. That paper has been criticised and ridiculed on various grounds instead of addressing the issues it brought up. We claim to have stellar security based on the official Bitfrost spec, yet lots of that spec are unimplemented. Back in the old days, even strong criticism was seen as a way to improve code and design. We had heated debates and decisions about adding/removing features were done transparently with input from the community. I really miss that time. But I see a chance to bring that culture back once the immense pressure on the "core team" (for lack of a better name) diminishes and update.2 is released. Let's hope for the best. Regards, Carl-Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 5:15 PM, Kim Quirk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > OLPC has increased funding and resources in 2008 toward a continued > commitment to helping kids in the least developed countries through > deployment of XOs and Sugar. I don't think there is any shriveling or dying > going on here. It's reassuring to hear that Sugar (and, presumably, GNU/Linux) is part of the commitment for 2008, at least. Can someone from OLPC give a straightforward statement regarding OLPC's longer-term commitments to deploying Sugar, GNU/Linux and free software in general? thanks d p.s. apologies if you received this message more than once, posting this time from an email address that's subscribed both to devel and sugar. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
We are all grateful to have had Walter's leadership and inspiration to get us to this point. It should be inspiring to see OLPC branching out, expanding and increasing support for children in many different ways. OLPC has increased funding and resources in 2008 toward a continued commitment to helping kids in the least developed countries through deployment of XOs and Sugar. I don't think there is any shriveling or dying going on here. OLPC Association is way too small to meet this mission alone! Thanks, Kim On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 6:54 PM, Joe Barr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 18:22 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: > > > > > Thank you for all of your support over the past two years and for all > > the feedback and encouragement you have given me. > > > > regards. > > > > -walter > > > It really sucks to see OLPC shriveling up and dying. > > > > -- > Resistance is not futile, it's (2PI * FREQ * L) / Q > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 05:54:13PM -0500, Joe Barr wrote: > It really sucks to see OLPC shriveling up and dying. Joe, It's good for people who have been unable to reconcile their differences with one another to separate themselves, to recuperate, and eventually, to re-engage one another with fresh insight and perspective. Also, while I sorely miss Ivan's and Walter's constant presence and advice, I remain confident that they will find ways, large and small, to educate and to empower those who are ignorant and powerless. Michael What in this description of events leads you to the conclusion that OLPC is "shriveling up and dying"? ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [sugar] where is Walter?
On Mon, 2008-04-21 at 18:22 -0400, Walter Bender wrote: > > Thank you for all of your support over the past two years and for all > the feedback and encouragement you have given me. > > regards. > > -walter It really sucks to see OLPC shriveling up and dying. -- Resistance is not futile, it's (2PI * FREQ * L) / Q ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
where is Walter?
After more than two years without a break at One Laptop per Child, I have decided to take some time to reflect on how I can best contribute going forward to the goal of giving children around the world opportunities for a quality learning experience. The OLPC Association is making headway getting laptops into the hands of children and it is encouraging to see that other non-profit and for-profit organizations are following suit. My personal interest is in helping build a community of developers, educators, and learners dedicated to advancing the quality of free and open source software for learning and the sharing of pedagogical approaches in this community by adopting the spirit and methodology of the open-source movement. While my goal is to create a complementary effort to broaden the reach of the software and pedagogy--a free and open framework in support of "learning learning", I hope to continue working with the great team at OLPC as well as the various groups that have formed around the world in support of one-laptop-per-child deployments. Thank you for all of your support over the past two years and for all the feedback and encouragement you have given me. regards. -walter ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
