Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup
On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:56:27AM +0200, Tomeu Vizoso wrote: > I remember to have heard some rumor about Microsoft considering to use > the internal NAND as swapping, thus killing any OS that may be > installed there. That would be disappointing. Can OFW hide the internal NAND when booting Windows XP? -- Make April 15 just another day, visit http://fairtax.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup
On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 17:32 -0500, Robert Myers wrote: > I just saw the Microsoft video of an XO running XP. In it the XO single > boots from an 'insyde' BIOS. The MS guy says that XP doesn't fit on the > flash, and is installed on an SD card. In this case, I'd guess the flash > is just being used as a home for the BIOS. I can see why techs at MS did > this to get a working prototype rather than having to wait for (or worse > yet, contribute to) the OF V2 bootloader/BIOS. > > Some sources seem to say that early pilots of the XP XO will go out in > this configuration. I really hope not, other than waving a few around to > show that it can be done. > OFW just booted XP in the last week. At a guess, Mitch has a couple months work to do to finish up, around things like ACPI. All the hard work is done, but as you know, bug hunting takes time. So ofw isn't ready in time for small initial pilots, but will be in time for large deployments. - Jim -- Jim Gettys <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup
Hi, I remember to have heard some rumor about Microsoft considering to use the internal NAND as swapping, thus killing any OS that may be installed there. This would mean that by "dual-boot" we are talking about having two SD cards each with a different OS? Regards, Tomeu On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Robert Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Richard, > > Sorry. > > 1) I knew about the separate memory for the firmware. I've reloaded it > often enough :-). I was more interested in publishing that thinking > deeply about how the XO works. > > 2) Again, sorry about my loose use of language. I should know better, > and try to be more precise. However, my understanding of the OF V2 is > that it incorporates the legacy behavior of the underlying BIOS of a > MS/DOS-Win machine, which is it's critical (at least for this issue) > difference from OF V1. > > But my point stands; the MS demo machine is single boot, and ignores the > flash and its contents. This would be a very bad thing to let out of the > lab. > >>> I just saw the Microsoft video of an XO running XP. In it the XO >>> single boots from an 'insyde' BIOS. The MS guy says that XP doesn't >>> fit on the flash, and is installed on an SD card. In this case, I'd >>> guess the flash is just being used as a home for the BIOS. >> >> The system firmware + Embedded Controller firmware lives in a 1Meg SPI >> NOR flash part connected to the EC. The 1Gig NAND flash part does not >> store any system firmware. >> >>> I can see why techs at MS did this to get a working prototype rather >>> than having to wait for (or worse yet, contribute to) the OF V2 >>> bootloader/BIOS. >> >> I prefer to use the term system firmware because BIOS refers to a legacy >> product class. OpenFirmware's capabilities are so far above a legacy >> BIOS product you can't even put them on the same scale. >> > Bob > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup
Richard, Sorry. 1) I knew about the separate memory for the firmware. I've reloaded it often enough :-). I was more interested in publishing that thinking deeply about how the XO works. 2) Again, sorry about my loose use of language. I should know better, and try to be more precise. However, my understanding of the OF V2 is that it incorporates the legacy behavior of the underlying BIOS of a MS/DOS-Win machine, which is it's critical (at least for this issue) difference from OF V1. But my point stands; the MS demo machine is single boot, and ignores the flash and its contents. This would be a very bad thing to let out of the lab. >> I just saw the Microsoft video of an XO running XP. In it the XO >> single boots from an 'insyde' BIOS. The MS guy says that XP doesn't >> fit on the flash, and is installed on an SD card. In this case, I'd >> guess the flash is just being used as a home for the BIOS. > > The system firmware + Embedded Controller firmware lives in a 1Meg SPI > NOR flash part connected to the EC. The 1Gig NAND flash part does not > store any system firmware. > >> I can see why techs at MS did this to get a working prototype rather >> than having to wait for (or worse yet, contribute to) the OF V2 >> bootloader/BIOS. > > I prefer to use the term system firmware because BIOS refers to a legacy > product class. OpenFirmware's capabilities are so far above a legacy > BIOS product you can't even put them on the same scale. > Bob ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup
Robert Myers wrote: > I just saw the Microsoft video of an XO running XP. In it the XO single > boots from an 'insyde' BIOS. The MS guy says that XP doesn't fit on the > flash, and is installed on an SD card. In this case, I'd guess the flash > is just being used as a home for the BIOS. The system firmware + Embedded Controller firmware lives in a 1Meg SPI NOR flash part connected to the EC. The 1Gig NAND flash part does not store any system firmware. > I can see why techs at MS did > this to get a working prototype rather than having to wait for (or worse > yet, contribute to) the OF V2 bootloader/BIOS. I prefer to use the term system firmware because BIOS refers to a legacy product class. OpenFirmware's capabilities are so far above a legacy BIOS product you can't even put them on the same scale. -- Richard Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup
Robert Myers mindspring.com> writes: > I just saw the Microsoft video of an XO running XP. In it the XO single > boots from an 'insyde' BIOS. The MS guy says that XP doesn't fit on the > flash, and is installed on an SD card. In this case, I'd guess the flash > is just being used as a home for the BIOS. I can see why techs at MS did > this to get a working prototype rather than having to wait for (or worse > yet, contribute to) the OF V2 bootloader/BIOS. Wasn't the Insyde BIOS what shipped temporarily on Rev A boards? Maybe that's just what they had? But yeah, they would have to put in some dev hours to port to OF. -- John. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
XP on OLPC - a contrarian view -- followup
Ok, Here's where it gets scary. > That being said, I believe Bill G is a prime example of 'Daniel > Plainview' capitalism -- it's not enough for him to win, everyone > else has to lose. So OLPC has to be careful. NN said in his release "Open Firmware V2, the free and open source BIOS, is now capable of running Linux, Microsoft Windows XP and other operating systems, and was developed by Firmworks with support from OLPC. This will enable dual boot of OLPC XO laptops with Microsoft Windows XP in addition to the existing Fedora-based system and will become the standard BIOS/bootloader for all XO systems when completed. With this "free BIOS," the XO-1 continues to be the most open laptop hardware currently available." This comment is what I based my previous remarks on. I just saw the Microsoft video of an XO running XP. In it the XO single boots from an 'insyde' BIOS. The MS guy says that XP doesn't fit on the flash, and is installed on an SD card. In this case, I'd guess the flash is just being used as a home for the BIOS. I can see why techs at MS did this to get a working prototype rather than having to wait for (or worse yet, contribute to) the OF V2 bootloader/BIOS. Some sources seem to say that early pilots of the XP XO will go out in this configuration. I really hope not, other than waving a few around to show that it can be done. An XO being able to run XP is a feature, and some may argue, a valuable one. An XO that only runs XP is just another small cheap computer, albeit "greener" than most. Bob ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
