Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 12:32 AM, Basanta Shrestha < basanta.shres...@olenepal.org> wrote: > [snip] > > > > I think you need to change the xkb files, but I'm not sure. Do you > > have a mechanical keyboard you can test with? If not, you'll have to > > get someone else to do this. > > > Yes, I have one - the spanish one. What I need to know is how to > enable the key combination for language switching . > You can define new xb mappings in the symbols file for Nepali. Should be in: /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/np > > [snip] > > -- > Basanta Shrestha > Network Engineer > Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > Cell: +977.9818 605110 > http://www.olenepal.org > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 3:20 PM, James Cameron wrote: > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 01:54:19PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: >> Hi all, >> We are planning on ordering the next lot of XO-4s and I need some >> suggestions on which keyboard model to choose -membrane or >> hard/clicky one. > > I think it is great to seek input from the community, but don't forget > to ask your OLPC contact for help as well. > >> We had membrane one for our first lot and keyboard switching was >> very convenient on that model. One reason not to choose hard/clicky >> one is that it doesn't have key for language switching ( correct me >> if I am wrong) -I have one spanish hard/clicky and it doesn't have >> that key - key 56 at >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts. > > Yes, that's a good reason not to choose the mechanical keyboard; you > would have to customise your operating system build again, to add a > key combination for keyboard language switch. If the cost of > customising is too high, you should order membrane keyboard. I don't > know the relative costs of the keyboards, and their replacement rates, > but it might be factored in to your decision. The cost for customization and building again is not expensive. I have a build machine set up in front of me. > > You identified the lack of language switch key in this same thread on > sugar-devel@ back in November 2013, from which I'll draw some status: > > Walter says use a key combination: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045724.html > > And says that customisation will be needed: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045800.html > > Then you suggest alt+space: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045807.html > > Daniel Drake says to use olpc-os-builder: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045851.html > > And you asked about the alt+space: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045857.html > > But the thread dried up on that subject because the units you received > had a membrane keyboard, not a mechanical keyboard. Yes, that was exactly what happened. > > I think you need to change the xkb files, but I'm not sure. Do you > have a mechanical keyboard you can test with? If not, you'll have to > get someone else to do this. Yes, I have one - the spanish one. What I need to know is how to enable the key combination for language switching . > >> Hard/Clicky on the other hard is more convenient while typing. >> Please suggest. > > I don't understand why you think it is more convenient. To me the > keyboards are equally convenient for an inexperienced child. Perhaps > you intended to mention some characteristic? Parhaps you may be right, but It is really inconvenient when you want to type fast on membrane keyboard. The problem is exactly what Prof. Sameer Varma has pointed out later in this thread - "the outer edges of the fingers get in the way of a full key depress" but even thismay not be big issues for kids cause they mostly type character by character using two fingers. > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ -- Basanta Shrestha Network Engineer Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 Cell: +977.9818 605110 http://www.olenepal.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:19 PM, John Watlington wrote: > > On Jun 16, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:03 PM, John Watlington wrote: >> >> >> Walter, >>You remember correctly. The hard/clicky/crunchy keyboards are not >> rated >> for as long a lifetime as the membrane/chewy keyboards. While the >> membrane >> keyboard design was tested to 5 million key presses, IIRC the clicky >> keyboard is >> only rated to 1 million key presses. (On the other hand, it takes one >> minute >> to replace a clicky keyboard versus twenty for a membrane keyboard.) > > > ..if you have a replacement keyboard... any insight into how easy it would > be to make replacement keys in the field? > > > I would say impossible, but that would be underestimating the creativeness > of > our deployments. > > At the electrical level, the crunchy and chewy keyboards have the same > contacts, > so I don't expect that to be the failure mechanism. Failure should be due > to the > mechanical parts (as it is with the membrane keyboards). If you pull off > the keycap > and the guide mechanism, the key still activates when you press on the > membrane > or the rubber cap (which provides both the spring action and presses on the > contacts) > glued to it. > Back in January 2013, while visiting Khairat (India) I saw a couple of girls using the eraser end of a pencil to push the torn keys on their XO-1s from 2007 (which BTW still hold charge and run the mesh!). Sameer > Cheers, > wad > >> WARNING: The clicky keyboard was not approved for use by small children >> by UL. The reason is that if the keys are pulled off they present a >> choking >> hazard. >> >> Cheers, >> wad >> > > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
Sameer, We made a tooling change to improve that feeling --- we increased the chamfer around the key openings so that if you miss the key slightly, your finger slides into the opening more easily. Unfortunately, this didn't go into production until the XO-4 hit production. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not sure if Subir and Rabi are aware that the original membrane keyboard is no longer available. The current membrane keyboard is covered by a plastic grid (making it much harder to peel off a key). See http://wiki.laptop.org/go/File:XO-1.75_siblings.jpg Cheers, wad On Jun 16, 2014, at 9:08 PM, Sameer Verma wrote: > On a related note, I was curious about deployment experiences with the > new membrane design with plastic grid in between keys. Although this > does help with premature peeling of keys, I've always had trouble with > these keyboards - the outer edges of my fingers get in the way of a > full key depress. Then again, the keys aren't designed for me, so I'm > curious how these do in the field. > > cheers, > Sameer > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:03 PM, John Watlington wrote: >> >> Walter, >> You remember correctly. The hard/clicky/crunchy keyboards are not rated >> for as long a lifetime as the membrane/chewy keyboards. While the membrane >> keyboard design was tested to 5 million key presses, IIRC the clicky >> keyboard is >> only rated to 1 million key presses. (On the other hand, it takes one >> minute >> to replace a clicky keyboard versus twenty for a membrane keyboard.) >> >> WARNING: The clicky keyboard was not approved for use by small children >> by UL. The reason is that if the keys are pulled off they present a >> choking >> hazard. >> >> Cheers, >> wad >> >> On Jun 16, 2014, at 7:13 AM, Walter Bender wrote: >> >> James, >> >> Do we have any data re the mechanical reliability/durability/repairability >> of the "hard/clicky" keyboards? We do know that although there were some >> issues with membrane pealing (presumably resolved with the newer design) >> there numerous ingenious local repairs such that most are still working >> after 7 years. >> >> regards. >> >> -walter >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 5:35 AM, James Cameron wrote: >>> >>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 01:54:19PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: Hi all, We are planning on ordering the next lot of XO-4s and I need some suggestions on which keyboard model to choose -membrane or hard/clicky one. >>> >>> I think it is great to seek input from the community, but don't forget >>> to ask your OLPC contact for help as well. >>> We had membrane one for our first lot and keyboard switching was very convenient on that model. One reason not to choose hard/clicky one is that it doesn't have key for language switching ( correct me if I am wrong) -I have one spanish hard/clicky and it doesn't have that key - key 56 at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts. >>> >>> Yes, that's a good reason not to choose the mechanical keyboard; you >>> would have to customise your operating system build again, to add a >>> key combination for keyboard language switch. If the cost of >>> customising is too high, you should order membrane keyboard. I don't >>> know the relative costs of the keyboards, and their replacement rates, >>> but it might be factored in to your decision. >>> >>> You identified the lack of language switch key in this same thread on >>> sugar-devel@ back in November 2013, from which I'll draw some status: >>> >>> Walter says use a key combination: >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045724.html >>> >>> And says that customisation will be needed: >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045800.html >>> >>> Then you suggest alt+space: >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045807.html >>> >>> Daniel Drake says to use olpc-os-builder: >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045851.html >>> >>> And you asked about the alt+space: >>> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045857.html >>> >>> But the thread dried up on that subject because the units you received >>> had a membrane keyboard, not a mechanical keyboard. >>> >>> I think you need to change the xkb files, but I'm not sure. Do you >>> have a mechanical keyboard you can test with? If not, you'll have to >>> get someone else to do this. >>> Hard/Clicky on the other hard is more convenient while typing. Please suggest. >>> >>> I don't understand why you think it is more convenient. To me the >>> keyboards are equally convenient for an inexperienced child. Perhaps >>> you intended to mention some characteristic? >>> >>> -- >>> James Cameron >>> http://quozl.linux.org.au/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> ___ >> Devel mailing list >> Devel@lists.
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Jun 16, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:03 PM, John Watlington wrote: > > Walter, >You remember correctly. The hard/clicky/crunchy keyboards are not rated > for as long a lifetime as the membrane/chewy keyboards. While the membrane > keyboard design was tested to 5 million key presses, IIRC the clicky keyboard > is > only rated to 1 million key presses. (On the other hand, it takes one minute > to replace a clicky keyboard versus twenty for a membrane keyboard.) > > ..if you have a replacement keyboard... any insight into how easy it would be > to make replacement keys in the field? I would say impossible, but that would be underestimating the creativeness of our deployments. At the electrical level, the crunchy and chewy keyboards have the same contacts, so I don't expect that to be the failure mechanism. Failure should be due to the mechanical parts (as it is with the membrane keyboards). If you pull off the keycap and the guide mechanism, the key still activates when you press on the membrane or the rubber cap (which provides both the spring action and presses on the contacts) glued to it. Cheers, wad > WARNING: The clicky keyboard was not approved for use by small children > by UL. The reason is that if the keys are pulled off they present a choking > hazard. > > Cheers, > wad > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On a related note, I was curious about deployment experiences with the new membrane design with plastic grid in between keys. Although this does help with premature peeling of keys, I've always had trouble with these keyboards - the outer edges of my fingers get in the way of a full key depress. Then again, the keys aren't designed for me, so I'm curious how these do in the field. cheers, Sameer On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 6:03 PM, John Watlington wrote: > > Walter, >You remember correctly. The hard/clicky/crunchy keyboards are not rated > for as long a lifetime as the membrane/chewy keyboards. While the membrane > keyboard design was tested to 5 million key presses, IIRC the clicky > keyboard is > only rated to 1 million key presses. (On the other hand, it takes one > minute > to replace a clicky keyboard versus twenty for a membrane keyboard.) > > WARNING: The clicky keyboard was not approved for use by small children > by UL. The reason is that if the keys are pulled off they present a > choking > hazard. > > Cheers, > wad > > On Jun 16, 2014, at 7:13 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > > James, > > Do we have any data re the mechanical reliability/durability/repairability > of the "hard/clicky" keyboards? We do know that although there were some > issues with membrane pealing (presumably resolved with the newer design) > there numerous ingenious local repairs such that most are still working > after 7 years. > > regards. > > -walter > > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 5:35 AM, James Cameron wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 01:54:19PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > We are planning on ordering the next lot of XO-4s and I need some >> > suggestions on which keyboard model to choose -membrane or >> > hard/clicky one. >> >> I think it is great to seek input from the community, but don't forget >> to ask your OLPC contact for help as well. >> >> > We had membrane one for our first lot and keyboard switching was >> > very convenient on that model. One reason not to choose hard/clicky >> > one is that it doesn't have key for language switching ( correct me >> > if I am wrong) -I have one spanish hard/clicky and it doesn't have >> > that key - key 56 at >> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts. >> >> Yes, that's a good reason not to choose the mechanical keyboard; you >> would have to customise your operating system build again, to add a >> key combination for keyboard language switch. If the cost of >> customising is too high, you should order membrane keyboard. I don't >> know the relative costs of the keyboards, and their replacement rates, >> but it might be factored in to your decision. >> >> You identified the lack of language switch key in this same thread on >> sugar-devel@ back in November 2013, from which I'll draw some status: >> >> Walter says use a key combination: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045724.html >> >> And says that customisation will be needed: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045800.html >> >> Then you suggest alt+space: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045807.html >> >> Daniel Drake says to use olpc-os-builder: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045851.html >> >> And you asked about the alt+space: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045857.html >> >> But the thread dried up on that subject because the units you received >> had a membrane keyboard, not a mechanical keyboard. >> >> I think you need to change the xkb files, but I'm not sure. Do you >> have a mechanical keyboard you can test with? If not, you'll have to >> get someone else to do this. >> >> > Hard/Clicky on the other hard is more convenient while typing. >> > Please suggest. >> >> I don't understand why you think it is more convenient. To me the >> keyboards are equally convenient for an inexperienced child. Perhaps >> you intended to mention some characteristic? >> >> -- >> James Cameron >> http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:03 PM, John Watlington wrote: > > Walter, >You remember correctly. The hard/clicky/crunchy keyboards are not rated > for as long a lifetime as the membrane/chewy keyboards. While the > membrane > keyboard design was tested to 5 million key presses, IIRC the clicky > keyboard is > only rated to 1 million key presses. (On the other hand, it takes one > minute > to replace a clicky keyboard versus twenty for a membrane keyboard.) > ..if you have a replacement keyboard... any insight into how easy it would be to make replacement keys in the field? > > WARNING: The clicky keyboard was not approved for use by small children > by UL. The reason is that if the keys are pulled off they present a > choking > hazard. > > Cheers, > wad > > On Jun 16, 2014, at 7:13 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > > James, > > Do we have any data re the mechanical reliability/durability/repairability > of the "hard/clicky" keyboards? We do know that although there were some > issues with membrane pealing (presumably resolved with the newer design) > there numerous ingenious local repairs such that most are still working > after 7 years. > > regards. > > -walter > > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 5:35 AM, James Cameron wrote: > >> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 01:54:19PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > We are planning on ordering the next lot of XO-4s and I need some >> > suggestions on which keyboard model to choose -membrane or >> > hard/clicky one. >> >> I think it is great to seek input from the community, but don't forget >> to ask your OLPC contact for help as well. >> >> > We had membrane one for our first lot and keyboard switching was >> > very convenient on that model. One reason not to choose hard/clicky >> > one is that it doesn't have key for language switching ( correct me >> > if I am wrong) -I have one spanish hard/clicky and it doesn't have >> > that key - key 56 at >> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts. >> >> Yes, that's a good reason not to choose the mechanical keyboard; you >> would have to customise your operating system build again, to add a >> key combination for keyboard language switch. If the cost of >> customising is too high, you should order membrane keyboard. I don't >> know the relative costs of the keyboards, and their replacement rates, >> but it might be factored in to your decision. >> >> You identified the lack of language switch key in this same thread on >> sugar-devel@ back in November 2013, from which I'll draw some status: >> >> Walter says use a key combination: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045724.html >> >> And says that customisation will be needed: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045800.html >> >> Then you suggest alt+space: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045807.html >> >> Daniel Drake says to use olpc-os-builder: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045851.html >> >> And you asked about the alt+space: >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045857.html >> >> But the thread dried up on that subject because the units you received >> had a membrane keyboard, not a mechanical keyboard. >> >> I think you need to change the xkb files, but I'm not sure. Do you >> have a mechanical keyboard you can test with? If not, you'll have to >> get someone else to do this. >> >> > Hard/Clicky on the other hard is more convenient while typing. >> > Please suggest. >> >> I don't understand why you think it is more convenient. To me the >> keyboards are equally convenient for an inexperienced child. Perhaps >> you intended to mention some characteristic? >> >> -- >> James Cameron >> http://quozl.linux.org.au/ >> > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
Walter, You remember correctly. The hard/clicky/crunchy keyboards are not rated for as long a lifetime as the membrane/chewy keyboards. While the membrane keyboard design was tested to 5 million key presses, IIRC the clicky keyboard is only rated to 1 million key presses. (On the other hand, it takes one minute to replace a clicky keyboard versus twenty for a membrane keyboard.) WARNING: The clicky keyboard was not approved for use by small children by UL. The reason is that if the keys are pulled off they present a choking hazard. Cheers, wad On Jun 16, 2014, at 7:13 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > James, > > Do we have any data re the mechanical reliability/durability/repairability of > the "hard/clicky" keyboards? We do know that although there were some issues > with membrane pealing (presumably resolved with the newer design) there > numerous ingenious local repairs such that most are still working after 7 > years. > > regards. > > -walter > > > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 5:35 AM, James Cameron wrote: > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 01:54:19PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > > Hi all, > > We are planning on ordering the next lot of XO-4s and I need some > > suggestions on which keyboard model to choose -membrane or > > hard/clicky one. > > I think it is great to seek input from the community, but don't forget > to ask your OLPC contact for help as well. > > > We had membrane one for our first lot and keyboard switching was > > very convenient on that model. One reason not to choose hard/clicky > > one is that it doesn't have key for language switching ( correct me > > if I am wrong) -I have one spanish hard/clicky and it doesn't have > > that key - key 56 at > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts. > > Yes, that's a good reason not to choose the mechanical keyboard; you > would have to customise your operating system build again, to add a > key combination for keyboard language switch. If the cost of > customising is too high, you should order membrane keyboard. I don't > know the relative costs of the keyboards, and their replacement rates, > but it might be factored in to your decision. > > You identified the lack of language switch key in this same thread on > sugar-devel@ back in November 2013, from which I'll draw some status: > > Walter says use a key combination: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045724.html > > And says that customisation will be needed: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045800.html > > Then you suggest alt+space: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045807.html > > Daniel Drake says to use olpc-os-builder: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045851.html > > And you asked about the alt+space: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045857.html > > But the thread dried up on that subject because the units you received > had a membrane keyboard, not a mechanical keyboard. > > I think you need to change the xkb files, but I'm not sure. Do you > have a mechanical keyboard you can test with? If not, you'll have to > get someone else to do this. > > > Hard/Clicky on the other hard is more convenient while typing. > > Please suggest. > > I don't understand why you think it is more convenient. To me the > keyboards are equally convenient for an inexperienced child. Perhaps > you intended to mention some characteristic? > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
I have no such data, sorry. On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 07:13:48AM -0400, Walter Bender wrote: > James, > > Do we have any data re the mechanical > reliability/durability/repairability of the "hard/clicky" keyboards? > We do know that although there were some issues with membrane > pealing (presumably resolved with the newer design) there numerous > ingenious local repairs such that most are still working after 7 > years. > > regards. > > -walter -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
James, Do we have any data re the mechanical reliability/durability/repairability of the "hard/clicky" keyboards? We do know that although there were some issues with membrane pealing (presumably resolved with the newer design) there numerous ingenious local repairs such that most are still working after 7 years. regards. -walter On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 5:35 AM, James Cameron wrote: > On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 01:54:19PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > > Hi all, > > We are planning on ordering the next lot of XO-4s and I need some > > suggestions on which keyboard model to choose -membrane or > > hard/clicky one. > > I think it is great to seek input from the community, but don't forget > to ask your OLPC contact for help as well. > > > We had membrane one for our first lot and keyboard switching was > > very convenient on that model. One reason not to choose hard/clicky > > one is that it doesn't have key for language switching ( correct me > > if I am wrong) -I have one spanish hard/clicky and it doesn't have > > that key - key 56 at > > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts. > > Yes, that's a good reason not to choose the mechanical keyboard; you > would have to customise your operating system build again, to add a > key combination for keyboard language switch. If the cost of > customising is too high, you should order membrane keyboard. I don't > know the relative costs of the keyboards, and their replacement rates, > but it might be factored in to your decision. > > You identified the lack of language switch key in this same thread on > sugar-devel@ back in November 2013, from which I'll draw some status: > > Walter says use a key combination: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045724.html > > And says that customisation will be needed: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045800.html > > Then you suggest alt+space: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045807.html > > Daniel Drake says to use olpc-os-builder: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045851.html > > And you asked about the alt+space: > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045857.html > > But the thread dried up on that subject because the units you received > had a membrane keyboard, not a mechanical keyboard. > > I think you need to change the xkb files, but I'm not sure. Do you > have a mechanical keyboard you can test with? If not, you'll have to > get someone else to do this. > > > Hard/Clicky on the other hard is more convenient while typing. > > Please suggest. > > I don't understand why you think it is more convenient. To me the > keyboards are equally convenient for an inexperienced child. Perhaps > you intended to mention some characteristic? > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 01:54:19PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > Hi all, > We are planning on ordering the next lot of XO-4s and I need some > suggestions on which keyboard model to choose -membrane or > hard/clicky one. I think it is great to seek input from the community, but don't forget to ask your OLPC contact for help as well. > We had membrane one for our first lot and keyboard switching was > very convenient on that model. One reason not to choose hard/clicky > one is that it doesn't have key for language switching ( correct me > if I am wrong) -I have one spanish hard/clicky and it doesn't have > that key - key 56 at > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts. Yes, that's a good reason not to choose the mechanical keyboard; you would have to customise your operating system build again, to add a key combination for keyboard language switch. If the cost of customising is too high, you should order membrane keyboard. I don't know the relative costs of the keyboards, and their replacement rates, but it might be factored in to your decision. You identified the lack of language switch key in this same thread on sugar-devel@ back in November 2013, from which I'll draw some status: Walter says use a key combination: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045724.html And says that customisation will be needed: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045800.html Then you suggest alt+space: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045807.html Daniel Drake says to use olpc-os-builder: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045851.html And you asked about the alt+space: http://lists.sugarlabs.org/archive/sugar-devel/2013-November/045857.html But the thread dried up on that subject because the units you received had a membrane keyboard, not a mechanical keyboard. I think you need to change the xkb files, but I'm not sure. Do you have a mechanical keyboard you can test with? If not, you'll have to get someone else to do this. > Hard/Clicky on the other hard is more convenient while typing. > Please suggest. I don't understand why you think it is more convenient. To me the keyboards are equally convenient for an inexperienced child. Perhaps you intended to mention some characteristic? -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
Hi all, We are planning on ordering the next lot of XO-4s and I need some suggestions on which keyboard model to choose -membrane or hard/clicky one. We had membrane one for our first lot and keyboard switching was very convenient on that model. One reason not to choose hard/clicky one is that it doesn't have key for language switching ( correct me if I am wrong) -I have one spanish hard/clicky and it doesn't have that key - key 56 at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_Keyboard_layouts. Hard/Clicky on the other hard is more convenient while typing. Please suggest. -Basanta On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 10:01 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:14 PM, Basanta Shrestha > wrote: >> Amazingly changing the manufacturing data didn't do the job but changing >> /etc/sysconfig/keyboard did. Wow! Now I have Nepali input system. Thank you >> all. >> >> Now I need to find a place to change default locale to ne_NP, so that the >> default interface is in Nepali. There is an option to do this in >> manufacturing data but it would be better if it can be done using file. > > If all you want to do is change default keyboard and language, you can > avoid doing any manufacturing data changes, and just do the [base] > olpc-os-builder configuration I mentioned in my last email. > > Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:14 PM, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > Amazingly changing the manufacturing data didn't do the job but changing > /etc/sysconfig/keyboard did. Wow! Now I have Nepali input system. Thank you > all. > > Now I need to find a place to change default locale to ne_NP, so that the > default interface is in Nepali. There is an option to do this in > manufacturing data but it would be better if it can be done using file. If all you want to do is change default keyboard and language, you can avoid doing any manufacturing data changes, and just do the [base] olpc-os-builder configuration I mentioned in my last email. Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:12 AM, Paul Fox wrote: > basanta wrote: > > Amazingly changing the manufacturing data didn't do the job but changing > > /etc/sysconfig/keyboard did. Wow! Now I have Nepali input system. Thank you > > all. > > i believe /etc/sysconfig/keyboard is created on first boot, using > information gleaned from manufacturing data. see > /usr/sbin/olpc-configure for details. this would explain why changing > the manufacturing tags didn't help -- they've already been consulted, > on your test laptop. > > paul > Yes. This means that if you reflash, it will use the keyboard specified in the manufacturing data, so you probably want to set it correctly. regards. -walter > > > > Now I need to find a place to change default locale to ne_NP, so that the > > default interface is in Nepali. There is an option to do this in > > manufacturing data but it would be better if it can be done using file. > > -basanta > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Walter Bender > wrote: > > > > > Makes things much easier. Now you just have to change the > > > manufacruring data as was suggested earlier, but you don't need to > > > modify the xkb symbol table. > > > > > > Good luck. > > > > > > -walter > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:24 AM, James Cameron wrote: > > > > Okay, that is consistent with the data we have for the SKU311 > > > > mentioned by Samuel on 8th November. > > > > > > > > The divide and multiply key is the language switch key. > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 01:36:35PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > > > >> The laptops(XO-4) have arrived but it turns out the keyboard is the > > > other one > > > >> the rubber one (Improved Membrane Keyboard ?). > > > >> -Basanta > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Basanta Shrestha < > > > >> basanta.shres...@olenepal.org> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> D > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Daniel Drake > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron < > > > qu...@laptop.org> > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact > > > >> > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. > > > >> > > > >> In the particular case of changing language/keyboard defaults > > > as we > > > >> are discussing, instead of changing manufacturing data I would > > > >> recommend doing it via olpc-os-builder, configuration for > > > [base], see > > > >> > > > http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/ > > > >> README#n46 > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> Doing it via olpc-os-builder would be easier especially when we be > > > having > > > >> more than 200 laptops to work on. This way we won't have to deal > > > with each > > > >> and every laptop. So the lines I would have to add would be > > > following : > > > >> > > > >> [base] > > > >> default_language=us > > > >> > > > >> default_kbd_model=us > > > >> default_kbd_layout=us > > > >> default_kbd_variant=np > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> But where do we set the key combination to switch between default > > > and > > > >> nepali. I would like to assign alt+space or alt+shift as > > > combination. > > > >> > > > >> Note: We need to set default layout to english. Nepali input is > only > > > >> required for few activities in Epaath and for typing document in > > > Nepali. > > > >> > > > >> -basanta > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Basanta Shrestha > > > >> Network Engineer > > > >> Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > > > >> Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > > > >> Cell: +977.9818 605110 > > > >> http://www.olenepal.org > > > > > > > > -- > > > > James Cameron > > > > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Walter Bender > > > Sugar Labs > > > http://www.sugarlabs.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Basanta Shrestha > > Network Engineer > > Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > > Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > > Cell: +977.9818 605110 > > http://www.olenepal.org > > part 2 text/plain 153 > > ___ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > =- > paul fox, p...@laptop.org -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
basanta wrote: > Amazingly changing the manufacturing data didn't do the job but changing > /etc/sysconfig/keyboard did. Wow! Now I have Nepali input system. Thank you > all. i believe /etc/sysconfig/keyboard is created on first boot, using information gleaned from manufacturing data. see /usr/sbin/olpc-configure for details. this would explain why changing the manufacturing tags didn't help -- they've already been consulted, on your test laptop. paul > > Now I need to find a place to change default locale to ne_NP, so that the > default interface is in Nepali. There is an option to do this in > manufacturing data but it would be better if it can be done using file. > -basanta > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Walter Bender > wrote: > > > Makes things much easier. Now you just have to change the > > manufacruring data as was suggested earlier, but you don't need to > > modify the xkb symbol table. > > > > Good luck. > > > > -walter > > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:24 AM, James Cameron wrote: > > > Okay, that is consistent with the data we have for the SKU311 > > > mentioned by Samuel on 8th November. > > > > > > The divide and multiply key is the language switch key. > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 01:36:35PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > > >> The laptops(XO-4) have arrived but it turns out the keyboard is the > > other one > > >> the rubber one (Improved Membrane Keyboard ?). > > >> -Basanta > > >> > > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Basanta Shrestha < > > >> basanta.shres...@olenepal.org> wrote: > > >> > > >> D > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Daniel Drake > > wrote: > > >> > > >> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron < > > qu...@laptop.org> > > >> wrote: > > >> > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact > > >> > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. > > >> > > >> In the particular case of changing language/keyboard defaults > > as we > > >> are discussing, instead of changing manufacturing data I would > > >> recommend doing it via olpc-os-builder, configuration for > > [base], see > > >> > > http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/ > > >> README#n46 > > >> > > >> > > >> Doing it via olpc-os-builder would be easier especially when we be > > having > > >> more than 200 laptops to work on. This way we won't have to deal > > with each > > >> and every laptop. So the lines I would have to add would be > > following : > > >> > > >> [base] > > >> default_language=us > > >> > > >> default_kbd_model=us > > >> default_kbd_layout=us > > >> default_kbd_variant=np > > >> > > >> > > >> But where do we set the key combination to switch between default > > and > > >> nepali. I would like to assign alt+space or alt+shift as > > combination. > > >> > > >> Note: We need to set default layout to english. Nepali input is only > > >> required for few activities in Epaath and for typing document in > > Nepali. > > >> > > >> -basanta > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Basanta Shrestha > > >> Network Engineer > > >> Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > > >> Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > > >> Cell: +977.9818 605110 > > >> http://www.olenepal.org > > > > > > -- > > > James Cameron > > > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > > > > > > > > -- > > Walter Bender > > Sugar Labs > > http://www.sugarlabs.org > > > > > > -- > Basanta Shrestha > Network Engineer > Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > Cell: +977.9818 605110 > http://www.olenepal.org > part 2 text/plain 153 > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
Amazingly changing the manufacturing data didn't do the job but changing /etc/sysconfig/keyboard did. Wow! Now I have Nepali input system. Thank you all. Now I need to find a place to change default locale to ne_NP, so that the default interface is in Nepali. There is an option to do this in manufacturing data but it would be better if it can be done using file. -basanta On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > Makes things much easier. Now you just have to change the > manufacruring data as was suggested earlier, but you don't need to > modify the xkb symbol table. > > Good luck. > > -walter > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:24 AM, James Cameron wrote: > > Okay, that is consistent with the data we have for the SKU311 > > mentioned by Samuel on 8th November. > > > > The divide and multiply key is the language switch key. > > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 01:36:35PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > >> The laptops(XO-4) have arrived but it turns out the keyboard is the > other one > >> the rubber one (Improved Membrane Keyboard ?). > >> -Basanta > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Basanta Shrestha < > >> basanta.shres...@olenepal.org> wrote: > >> > >> D > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Daniel Drake > wrote: > >> > >> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron < > qu...@laptop.org> > >> wrote: > >> > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact > >> > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. > >> > >> In the particular case of changing language/keyboard defaults > as we > >> are discussing, instead of changing manufacturing data I would > >> recommend doing it via olpc-os-builder, configuration for > [base], see > >> > http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/ > >> README#n46 > >> > >> > >> Doing it via olpc-os-builder would be easier especially when we be > having > >> more than 200 laptops to work on. This way we won't have to deal > with each > >> and every laptop. So the lines I would have to add would be > following : > >> > >> [base] > >> default_language=us > >> > >> default_kbd_model=us > >> default_kbd_layout=us > >> default_kbd_variant=np > >> > >> > >> But where do we set the key combination to switch between default > and > >> nepali. I would like to assign alt+space or alt+shift as > combination. > >> > >> Note: We need to set default layout to english. Nepali input is only > >> required for few activities in Epaath and for typing document in > Nepali. > >> > >> -basanta > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Basanta Shrestha > >> Network Engineer > >> Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > >> Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > >> Cell: +977.9818 605110 > >> http://www.olenepal.org > > > > -- > > James Cameron > > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- Basanta Shrestha Network Engineer Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 Cell: +977.9818 605110 http://www.olenepal.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
Makes things much easier. Now you just have to change the manufacruring data as was suggested earlier, but you don't need to modify the xkb symbol table. Good luck. -walter On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 4:24 AM, James Cameron wrote: > Okay, that is consistent with the data we have for the SKU311 > mentioned by Samuel on 8th November. > > The divide and multiply key is the language switch key. > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 01:36:35PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: >> The laptops(XO-4) have arrived but it turns out the keyboard is the other one >> the rubber one (Improved Membrane Keyboard ?). >> -Basanta >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Basanta Shrestha < >> basanta.shres...@olenepal.org> wrote: >> >> D >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: >> >> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron >> wrote: >> > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact >> > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. >> >> In the particular case of changing language/keyboard defaults as we >> are discussing, instead of changing manufacturing data I would >> recommend doing it via olpc-os-builder, configuration for [base], see >> http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/ >> README#n46 >> >> >> Doing it via olpc-os-builder would be easier especially when we be having >> more than 200 laptops to work on. This way we won't have to deal with >> each >> and every laptop. So the lines I would have to add would be following : >> >> [base] >> default_language=us >> >> default_kbd_model=us >> default_kbd_layout=us >> default_kbd_variant=np >> >> >> But where do we set the key combination to switch between default and >> nepali. I would like to assign alt+space or alt+shift as combination. >> >> Note: We need to set default layout to english. Nepali input is only >> required for few activities in Epaath and for typing document in Nepali. >> >> -basanta >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Basanta Shrestha >> Network Engineer >> Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal >> Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 >> Cell: +977.9818 605110 >> http://www.olenepal.org > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
Okay, that is consistent with the data we have for the SKU311 mentioned by Samuel on 8th November. The divide and multiply key is the language switch key. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 01:36:35PM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > The laptops(XO-4) have arrived but it turns out the keyboard is the other one > the rubber one (Improved Membrane Keyboard ?). > -Basanta > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Basanta Shrestha < > basanta.shres...@olenepal.org> wrote: > > D > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron > wrote: > > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact > > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. > > In the particular case of changing language/keyboard defaults as we > are discussing, instead of changing manufacturing data I would > recommend doing it via olpc-os-builder, configuration for [base], see > http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/ > README#n46 > > > Doing it via olpc-os-builder would be easier especially when we be having > more than 200 laptops to work on. This way we won't have to deal with each > and every laptop. So the lines I would have to add would be following : > > [base] > default_language=us > > default_kbd_model=us > default_kbd_layout=us > default_kbd_variant=np > > > But where do we set the key combination to switch between default and > nepali. I would like to assign alt+space or alt+shift as combination. > > Note: We need to set default layout to english. Nepali input is only > required for few activities in Epaath and for typing document in Nepali. > > -basanta > > > > > > > -- > Basanta Shrestha > Network Engineer > Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > Cell: +977.9818 605110 > http://www.olenepal.org -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
The laptops(XO-4) have arrived but it turns out the keyboard is the other one the rubber one (Improved Membrane Keyboard ?). -Basanta On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:36 AM, Basanta Shrestha < basanta.shres...@olenepal.org> wrote: > D > > > On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: > >> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron wrote: >> > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact >> > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. >> >> In the particular case of changing language/keyboard defaults as we >> are discussing, instead of changing manufacturing data I would >> recommend doing it via olpc-os-builder, configuration for [base], see >> >> http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/README#n46 > > > Doing it via olpc-os-builder would be easier especially when we be having > more than 200 laptops to work on. This way we won't have to deal with each > and every laptop. So the lines I would have to add would be following : > > [base] > default_language=us > > default_kbd_model=us > default_kbd_layout=us > default_kbd_variant=np > > > But where do we set the key combination to switch between default and > nepali. I would like to assign alt+space or alt+shift as combination. > > Note: We need to set default layout to english. Nepali input is only > required for few activities in Epaath and for typing document in Nepali. > > -basanta > > > -- Basanta Shrestha Network Engineer Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 Cell: +977.9818 605110 http://www.olenepal.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
D On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: > On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron wrote: > > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact > > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. > > In the particular case of changing language/keyboard defaults as we > are discussing, instead of changing manufacturing data I would > recommend doing it via olpc-os-builder, configuration for [base], see > > http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/README#n46 Doing it via olpc-os-builder would be easier especially when we be having more than 200 laptops to work on. This way we won't have to deal with each and every laptop. So the lines I would have to add would be following : [base] default_language=us default_kbd_model=us default_kbd_layout=us default_kbd_variant=np But where do we set the key combination to switch between default and nepali. I would like to assign alt+space or alt+shift as combination. Note: We need to set default layout to english. Nepali input is only required for few activities in Epaath and for typing document in Nepali. -basanta ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
I made the changes but how do we set the key combination to invoke the nepali layout. We need to have english as default and then nepali as and when required. -Basanta On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 5:03 AM, James Cameron wrote: > On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 11:08:18AM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > > But I am still wondering how we could alter/change the stored data > > to our preference or if we can do it ourselves. Please suggest. > > At the firmware ok prompt [1], you may change the tag values [2], for > example; > > ok tags( > ok delete-tag KL > ok add-tag KL np > ok delete-tag KV > ok add-tag KV olpc2 > ok )tags > > The )tags command will force a reboot. > > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. > > References: > > 1. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ok > 2. > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manufacturing_Data_Specification#Defined_Tags > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Mon, 2013-11-11 at 11:38 -0600, Daniel Drake wrote: > On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron wrote: > > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact > > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. > > In the particular case of changing language/keyboard defaults as we > are discussing, instead of changing manufacturing data I would > recommend doing it via olpc-os-builder, configuration for [base], see > http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/README#n46 > Or use TinyCore's xo-custom plugin to make the customizations to an existing image on an unlocked XO. http://dev.laptop.org/~quozl/mktinycorexo/HOWTO.xo-custom Jerry ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:18 PM, James Cameron wrote: > If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact > reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. In the particular case of changing language/keyboard defaults as we are discussing, instead of changing manufacturing data I would recommend doing it via olpc-os-builder, configuration for [base], see http://dev.laptop.org/git/projects/olpc-os-builder/tree/modules/base/README#n46 Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 11:08:18AM +0545, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > But I am still wondering how we could alter/change the stored data > to our preference or if we can do it ourselves. Please suggest. At the firmware ok prompt [1], you may change the tag values [2], for example; ok tags( ok delete-tag KL ok add-tag KL np ok delete-tag KV ok add-tag KV olpc2 ok )tags The )tags command will force a reboot. If you need to scale up this change to many laptops, contact reu...@laptop.org or myself. I must know the SKU number. References: 1. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Ok 2. http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manufacturing_Data_Specification#Defined_Tags -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
Thank you so much Walter and sorry that I am very new to these thing. What I have understood so far is : .mfg-date will list the predefined set to stored data. And we need to set KL to 'np' ( this the name of maping file for Nepali under /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ ) and we need to set some value ( np? ) to KV as well. And we need to decide on a key combination to invoke the keyboard switching between the default(English) and Nepali. Since there is no physical : Language key, I think keyboard combination like alt+space bar should be easy. Please suggest if there is other consideration we need to think of. But I am still wondering how we could alter/change the stored data to our preference or if we can do it ourselves. Please suggest. Regards, Basanta On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 6:50 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Basanta Shrestha > wrote: > > They are hard/clicky ones. > > So I think what we should do is a combination of the suggestions made > previously: if you set the manufacturing data (KL) [1] to tell the > laptops that they have Nepali keyboards, you will be part of the way > there. But we need to make a new variant (KV) for the "hard/clicky" > (HS) keyboard. As I mentioned earlier, we need to decide what the key > combination for switching languages will be, since there is no > physical :Language key. > > -walter > > [1] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manufacturing_data > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Basanta Shrestha > >> wrote: > >> > But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was > >> > wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. > >> > >> Are these keyboards hard/clicky/high-school style, or soft/membrane? > >> > >> Daniel > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Basanta Shrestha > > Network Engineer > > Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > > Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > > Cell: +977.9818 605110 > > http://www.olenepal.org > > > > ___ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- Basanta Shrestha Network Engineer Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 Cell: +977.9818 605110 http://www.olenepal.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 8:38 AM, Paul Fox wrote: > walter wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Basanta Shrestha > > wrote: > > > They are hard/clicky ones. > > > > So I think what we should do is a combination of the suggestions made > > previously: if you set the manufacturing data (KL) [1] to tell the > > laptops that they have Nepali keyboards, you will be part of the way > > there. But we need to make a new variant (KV) for the "hard/clicky" > > (HS) keyboard. As I mentioned earlier, we need to decide what the key > > combination for switching languages will be, since there is no > > physical :Language key. > > at what level is the language key handled, on laptops with the > membrane keyboards? (i.e., X? sugar?) that might influence what > sort of combination is available or useful for doing the switch. It is handled in X in the xkb symbol file. -walter > paul > > > > > -walter > > > > [1] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manufacturing_data > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: > > >> > > >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Basanta Shrestha > > >> wrote: > > >> > But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was > > >> > wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. > > >> > > >> Are these keyboards hard/clicky/high-school style, or soft/membrane? > > >> > > >> Daniel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Basanta Shrestha > > > Network Engineer > > > Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > > > Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > > > Cell: +977.9818 605110 > > > http://www.olenepal.org > > > > > > ___ > > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Walter Bender > > Sugar Labs > > http://www.sugarlabs.org > > ___ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > =- > paul fox, p...@laptop.org -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
walter wrote: > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Basanta Shrestha > wrote: > > They are hard/clicky ones. > > So I think what we should do is a combination of the suggestions made > previously: if you set the manufacturing data (KL) [1] to tell the > laptops that they have Nepali keyboards, you will be part of the way > there. But we need to make a new variant (KV) for the "hard/clicky" > (HS) keyboard. As I mentioned earlier, we need to decide what the key > combination for switching languages will be, since there is no > physical :Language key. at what level is the language key handled, on laptops with the membrane keyboards? (i.e., X? sugar?) that might influence what sort of combination is available or useful for doing the switch. paul > > -walter > > [1] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manufacturing_data > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: > >> > >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Basanta Shrestha > >> wrote: > >> > But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was > >> > wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. > >> > >> Are these keyboards hard/clicky/high-school style, or soft/membrane? > >> > >> Daniel > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Basanta Shrestha > > Network Engineer > > Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > > Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > > Cell: +977.9818 605110 > > http://www.olenepal.org > > > > ___ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > They are hard/clicky ones. So I think what we should do is a combination of the suggestions made previously: if you set the manufacturing data (KL) [1] to tell the laptops that they have Nepali keyboards, you will be part of the way there. But we need to make a new variant (KV) for the "hard/clicky" (HS) keyboard. As I mentioned earlier, we need to decide what the key combination for switching languages will be, since there is no physical :Language key. -walter [1] http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manufacturing_data > > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: >> >> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Basanta Shrestha >> wrote: >> > But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was >> > wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. >> >> Are these keyboards hard/clicky/high-school style, or soft/membrane? >> >> Daniel > > > > > -- > Basanta Shrestha > Network Engineer > Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > Cell: +977.9818 605110 > http://www.olenepal.org > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
They are hard/clicky ones. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 10:24 PM, Daniel Drake wrote: > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Basanta Shrestha > wrote: > > But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was > > wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. > > Are these keyboards hard/clicky/high-school style, or soft/membrane? > > Daniel > -- Basanta Shrestha Network Engineer Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 Cell: +977.9818 605110 http://www.olenepal.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
If these are the SKU 311 units the Manufacturing Data on the wiki implies they have membrane keyboards. If so I don't see any reason using the keyboard manufacturing tags used for previous Nepali manufacturing runs (or used testing out the settings in /etc/sysconfig/keyboard manually) shouldn't work. The %/X key will just become the language key again. But if no virtual keyboard exists for Nepali you will not have touchscreen/virtual keyboard access to that language. On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:41 AM, Walter Bender wrote: > I believe Basanta said that they were the hard click keyboards > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Basanta Shrestha > > wrote: > >> But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was > >> wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. > > > > Are these keyboards hard/clicky/high-school style, or soft/membrane? > > > > Daniel > > ___ > > Devel mailing list > > Devel@lists.laptop.org > > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was > wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. Are these keyboards hard/clicky/high-school style, or soft/membrane? Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
I believe Basanta said that they were the hard click keyboards On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:39 AM, Daniel Drake wrote: > On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:23 PM, Basanta Shrestha > wrote: >> But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was >> wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. > > Are these keyboards hard/clicky/high-school style, or soft/membrane? > > Daniel > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
On 8 Nov 2013, at 14:24, Chris Leonard wrote: > What about a virtual touch keyboard layout? Just wondering? FWIW: I'm pretty sure (check [1] & [2]) that Nepali layouts were not part of the Maliit set I was asked to work on for the XO-4 touch keyboard layouts. It's been over a year ago, and a lot of things were going on, so my memory is a little rusty. If the XO-4's in question do have the touch screen hardware support, creating a layout file is not too difficult (as long as the required fonts glyphs are already installed). That is a beauty of touch screen keyboards, they may not be as good as tactile keyboards, but you can have almost any language layout you want with no hardware changes. [1] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User:Garycmartin/Maliit_Layouts [2] http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/User_talk:Garycmartin/Maliit#Currently_available_language_layouts Regards, --Gary > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Basanta Shrestha > wrote: >> Hi Walter >> We don't have plans to use stickers at the moment. The stickers won't last >> long in the hands of kids. But we need to have some mechanism to input >> Nepali characters. For now we can give them a printout of the keyboard >> layout. >> Regards, >> Basanta >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Walter Bender >> wrote: >>> >>> A bit tricky because we don't have that key anymore (but we could come >>> up with some other key combination to enable it). Also, are you >>> planning to use stickers or some other way to add the proper glyths to >>> the keyboard? >>> >>> Happy to explore this with you further. >>> >>> regards. >>> >>> -walter >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Basanta Shrestha >>> wrote: Hi, I am writing this mail seeking a clue on where to start looking to enable Nepali input in XO4. For XO-1 we had nepali keyboard and there was a button just below the "enter" button which would switch input between English and Nepali. And that was very convenient. But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. I can see that the key maping file for nepali is already there under /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ Thank you . -- Basanta Shrestha OLE Nepal ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Walter Bender >>> Sugar Labs >>> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Basanta Shrestha >> Network Engineer >> Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal >> Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 >> Cell: +977.9818 605110 >> http://www.olenepal.org >> >> ___ >> Sugar-devel mailing list >> sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > ___ > Devel mailing list > Devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel signature.asc Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
What about a virtual touch keyboard layout? Just wondering? On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:46 AM, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > Hi Walter > We don't have plans to use stickers at the moment. The stickers won't last > long in the hands of kids. But we need to have some mechanism to input > Nepali characters. For now we can give them a printout of the keyboard > layout. > Regards, > Basanta > > > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Walter Bender > wrote: >> >> A bit tricky because we don't have that key anymore (but we could come >> up with some other key combination to enable it). Also, are you >> planning to use stickers or some other way to add the proper glyths to >> the keyboard? >> >> Happy to explore this with you further. >> >> regards. >> >> -walter >> >> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Basanta Shrestha >> wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I am writing this mail seeking a clue on where to start looking to >> > enable >> > Nepali input in XO4. For XO-1 we had nepali keyboard and there was a >> > button >> > just below the "enter" button which would switch input between English >> > and >> > Nepali. And that was very convenient. >> > >> > But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was >> > wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. I can see that >> > the >> > key maping file for nepali is already there under >> > /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ >> > >> > Thank you . >> > >> > -- >> > Basanta Shrestha >> > OLE Nepal >> > >> > ___ >> > Sugar-devel mailing list >> > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org > > > > > -- > Basanta Shrestha > Network Engineer > Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal > Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 > Cell: +977.9818 605110 > http://www.olenepal.org > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
Hi Walter We don't have plans to use stickers at the moment. The stickers won't last long in the hands of kids. But we need to have some mechanism to input Nepali characters. For now we can give them a printout of the keyboard layout. Regards, Basanta On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 5:58 PM, Walter Bender wrote: > A bit tricky because we don't have that key anymore (but we could come > up with some other key combination to enable it). Also, are you > planning to use stickers or some other way to add the proper glyths to > the keyboard? > > Happy to explore this with you further. > > regards. > > -walter > > On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Basanta Shrestha > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am writing this mail seeking a clue on where to start looking to enable > > Nepali input in XO4. For XO-1 we had nepali keyboard and there was a > button > > just below the "enter" button which would switch input between English > and > > Nepali. And that was very convenient. > > > > But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was > > wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. I can see that > the > > key maping file for nepali is already there under > > /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ > > > > Thank you . > > > > -- > > Basanta Shrestha > > OLE Nepal > > > > ___ > > Sugar-devel mailing list > > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > > > > > > -- > Walter Bender > Sugar Labs > http://www.sugarlabs.org > -- Basanta Shrestha Network Engineer Open Learning Exchange (OLE) Nepal Tel: +977.1.551, 5520075 Ext. 303 Cell: +977.9818 605110 http://www.olenepal.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: [Sugar-devel] seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
A bit tricky because we don't have that key anymore (but we could come up with some other key combination to enable it). Also, are you planning to use stickers or some other way to add the proper glyths to the keyboard? Happy to explore this with you further. regards. -walter On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 12:23 AM, Basanta Shrestha wrote: > Hi, > > I am writing this mail seeking a clue on where to start looking to enable > Nepali input in XO4. For XO-1 we had nepali keyboard and there was a button > just below the "enter" button which would switch input between English and > Nepali. And that was very convenient. > > But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was > wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. I can see that the > key maping file for nepali is already there under > /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ > > Thank you . > > -- > Basanta Shrestha > OLE Nepal > > ___ > Sugar-devel mailing list > sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org > http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
seeking help to enable nepali keyboard input for XO-4
Hi, I am writing this mail seeking a clue on where to start looking to enable Nepali input in XO4. For XO-1 we had nepali keyboard and there was a button just below the "enter" button which would switch input between English and Nepali. And that was very convenient. But for XO-4 we will just be getting ones with English layout. I was wondering how we can enable nepali keyboard input on it. I can see that the key maping file for nepali is already there under /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ Thank you . -- Basanta Shrestha OLE Nepal ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
