Re: drop bfq scheduler, instead use mq-deadline across the board

2020-06-29 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 8:24 PM Tom Seewald wrote: > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851783 > > > > The main argument is that for typical and varied workloads in Fedora, > > mostly on consumer hardware, we should use mq-deadline scheduler > > rather than either none or bfq. > > >

Re: drop bfq scheduler, instead use mq-deadline across the board

2020-06-29 Thread Tom Seewald
> It's super annoying for me to post, because benchmarks drive me crazy, > and yet here I am posting one - this is almost like self flagellation > to paste this... > > https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article=linux-56-nvme;... > > None of these benchmarks are representative of a generic

Re: drop bfq scheduler, instead use mq-deadline across the board

2020-06-29 Thread Tom Seewald
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851783 > > The main argument is that for typical and varied workloads in Fedora, > mostly on consumer hardware, we should use mq-deadline scheduler > rather than either none or bfq. > > It may be true most folks with NVMe won't see anything bad with

Re: an "old-school *nix defaults" spin [was Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram]

2020-06-29 Thread Rahul Sundaram
Hi On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:40 PM Markus Larsson wrote: > > Thanks, I am well aware. That wasn't really the topic here. > If there is a repeated feeling that anyone has that a particular edition isn't what they are looking for, figuring out how to make a different set of choices is and perhaps

Re: an "old-school *nix defaults" spin [was Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram]

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 5:04:18 PM MST Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:40 PM Markus Larsson wrote: > > Thanks, I am well aware. That wasn't really the topic here. > > If there is a repeated feeling that anyone has that a particular edition > isn't what they are looking

Re: drop bfq scheduler, instead use mq-deadline across the board

2020-06-29 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 9:45 PM Tom Seewald wrote: > > > The latter but considering they're a broad variety of workloads I > > think it's misleading to call them server workloads as if that's one > > particular type of thing, or not applicable to a desktop under IO > > pressure. Why? (a) they're

Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/29/20 4:13 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: On Monday, June 29, 2020 4:03:06 PM MST Neal Gompa wrote: Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when configured, and leave it out otherwise.. Anaconda

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread José Abílio Matos
On Monday, 29 June 2020 22.23.00 WEST Alexander Ploumistos wrote: > This tends to take with it many things that it shouldn't, like gdb, > dbus-x11, python3-pwquality, tigervnc-server-minimal and tmux - among > others. I noticed that before but at least on F32 it does not do it anymore. I have

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 5:17 PM Dominique Martinet wrote: > > Recap of the problems I ran into: > - bug in btrfs-convert where it just aborts in the middle with an ... > - second bug in btrfs-convert, running scrub immediately after ... My view is that btrfs-convert is something of a proof of

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:27 pm, Michael Catanzaro wrote: Erm... well, no. Plan foiled? The goal of using /usr/lib/environment.d was to avoid setting more environment variables in random places in various shell scripts. But if that only works in GNOME, I guess it's not a great solution after

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Alexander Ploumistos
On Tue, Jun 30, 2020 at 1:35 AM José Abílio Matos wrote: > > On Monday, 29 June 2020 22.23.00 WEST Alexander Ploumistos wrote: > > This tends to take with it many things that it shouldn't, like gdb, > > dbus-x11, python3-pwquality, tigervnc-server-minimal and tmux - among > > others. > > I

Re: drop bfq scheduler, instead use mq-deadline across the board

2020-06-29 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:38 PM Richard Shaw wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:01 PM Chris Murphy wrote: >> >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851783 >> >> The main argument is that for typical and varied workloads in Fedora, >> mostly on consumer hardware, we should use

Re: drop bfq scheduler, instead use mq-deadline across the board

2020-06-29 Thread Tom Seewald
> The latter but considering they're a broad variety of workloads I > think it's misleading to call them server workloads as if that's one > particular type of thing, or not applicable to a desktop under IO > pressure. Why? (a) they're using consumer storage devices (b) these > are real workloads

Re: Lua 5.4.0

2020-06-29 Thread Tom Callaway
Okay. I duct taped lua-posix into a "working" state. Also did builds for lua-argparse, lua-expat, lua-lpeg, and rpm (so that the macros say "5.4"). Any and all help is appreciated. Tom On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:37 PM Jerry James wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:34 PM Miro Hrončok wrote: >

Review swaps

2020-06-29 Thread Chenxiong Qi
Hello everyone, Could anyone please review these three packages? python-django-uuslug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851463 python-django-contrib-comments https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851562 This is not a new package. It has been retired more than 8 weeks ago.

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/29/20 3:59 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:37 pm, Samuel Sieb wrote: But that should be running concurrently.  Does the plot show anything important waiting for it?  Your desktop should be able to load before that service is finished starting. Well notably:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Markus S.
The legality FUD is unrelated to rolling or non-rolling kernels. ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct:

Re: drop bfq scheduler, instead use mq-deadline across the board

2020-06-29 Thread Richard Shaw
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:01 PM Chris Murphy wrote: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851783 > > The main argument is that for typical and varied workloads in Fedora, > mostly on consumer hardware, we should use mq-deadline scheduler > rather than either none or bfq. > > It may be

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/29/20 1:57 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:45 pm, Michael Catanzaro wrote: We might need to explicitly disable systemd-udev-settle.service during the system upgrade to turn it off? Doesn't work... I tried 'systemctl disable systemd-udev-settle.service' and

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Markus S.
Why not Stratis? ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Markus S.
It's not a GPL violation. OpenZFS works under Linux through a compatibility layer called SPL, the Solaris Porting Layer. SPL is licensed under GPL. Torvalds himself said that a non-GPL file system that was written for another OS cannot be considered a derivative of the Linux kernel:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread James Cassell
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Markus S. wrote: > Why not Stratis? Stratis cannot be used to build the root filesystem. (It's been answered elsewhere in the thread.) V/r, James Cassell ___ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Markus Larsson
On Mon, 2020-06-29 at 18:51 -0400, James Cassell wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Markus S. wrote: > > Why not Stratis? > > Stratis cannot be used to build the root filesystem. (It's been > answered elsewhere in the thread.) Are we sure?

Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:04:48 PM MST Ben Cotton wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkst > ationLiveCD > > == Summary == > The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora variant getfedora.org > advices people to download. > As such most Fedora

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:37 pm, Samuel Sieb wrote: But that should be running concurrently. Does the plot show anything important waiting for it? Your desktop should be able to load before that service is finished starting. Well notably: plymouth-quit-wait.service. Surely plymouth keeps

Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Neal Gompa
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:00 PM John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:04:48 PM MST Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkst > > ationLiveCD > > > > == Summary == > > The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:57:55 PM MST Michael Catanzaro wrote: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:45 pm, Michael Catanzaro > wrote: > > > We might need to explicitly disable systemd-udev-settle.service > > during the system upgrade to turn it off? > > > Doesn't work... I tried 'systemctl disable

Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 4:03:06 PM MST Neal Gompa wrote: > > Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. > > A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when > > configured, and leave it out otherwise.. > > > Anaconda live install architecture does not

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Dominique Martinet
So, given this already has way too many answers I didn't want to reply, but after spending ~4 hours to get my laptop back to bootable state after a btrfs-convert I guess some people might be interested. Overall thoughts for whoever doesn't want to read the rest is: I think btrfs the FS is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 3:40:57 PM MST Markus S. wrote: > It's not a GPL violation. OpenZFS works under Linux through a compatibility > layer called SPL, the Solaris Porting Layer. SPL is licensed under GPL. > Torvalds himself said that a non-GPL file system that was written for > another OS

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:45 pm, Michael Catanzaro wrote: We might need to explicitly disable systemd-udev-settle.service during the system upgrade to turn it off? Doesn't work... I tried 'systemctl disable systemd-udev-settle.service' and rebooted again, and it's still running. I tried

drop bfq scheduler, instead use mq-deadline across the board

2020-06-29 Thread Chris Murphy
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1851783 The main argument is that for typical and varied workloads in Fedora, mostly on consumer hardware, we should use mq-deadline scheduler rather than either none or bfq. It may be true most folks with NVMe won't see anything bad with none, but

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Hans de Goede
Hi, On 6/29/20 10:57 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:45 pm, Michael Catanzaro wrote: We might need to explicitly disable systemd-udev-settle.service during the system upgrade to turn it off? Doesn't work... I tried 'systemctl disable systemd-udev-settle.service' and

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread J. Bruce Fields
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 01:33:37PM -0400, Josef Bacik wrote: > On 6/29/20 12:23 PM, J. Bruce Fields wrote: > > Maybe not a desktop question, but do you know btrfs's change > > attribute/i_version status? Does it default to bumping i_version on > > each change, or does that still need to be opted

Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Hans de Goede
Hi, On 6/29/20 10:29 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM Chris Murphy wrote: On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton wrote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD Multipath support is only necessary for installations

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:09 pm, Hans de Goede wrote: I got the name of the unit wrong in the change proposal, sorry. I fix this on my own systems with "dnf remove dmraid", but unlike multipath some desktop machines may actually have a BIOS/firmware RAID set configured which needs dmraid and

Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Neal Gompa
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 5:15 PM Hans de Goede wrote: > > Hi, > > On 6/29/20 10:29 PM, Neal Gompa wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM Chris Murphy > > wrote: > >> > >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton wrote: > >>> > >>>

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Eric Sandeen
On 6/29/20 1:47 PM, Josef Bacik wrote: Just to be clear here, the choice of XFS here is purely based on performance, not on the reliability of the file systems, right? (So it's not “all the really important data is stored in XFS”.) >>> >>> Yes that's correct.  At our scale

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:58 PM Michael Catanzaro wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 3:45 pm, Michael Catanzaro > wrote: > > We might need to explicitly disable systemd-udev-settle.service > > during the system upgrade to turn it off? > > Doesn't work... I tried 'systemctl disable

Re: Disable dmraid.service on first run if no dmraid sets are found - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Alexander Ploumistos
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:09 PM Hans de Goede wrote: > > I fix this on my > own systems with "dnf remove dmraid" This tends to take with it many things that it shouldn't, like gdb, dbus-x11, python3-pwquality, tigervnc-server-minimal and tmux - among others.

Re: NetworkManager keyfile instead of ifcfg-rh - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Thomas Haller
On Mon, 2020-06-29 at 12:00 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/29/20 11:44 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 11:35:55 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > Is there any easy way to convert profiles from ifcfg-rh to > > > keyfile? > > > > I don't think that'd be a good idea. The

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 6:06:06 PM MST Michael Catanzaro wrote: > 3. Users should not be expected to customize anything or use the > command line, ever, period. So for the purposes of figuring out what's > causing this performance issue, it sounds very useful to test different > mount options.

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Zdenek Dohnal
Sorry for duplicate, it was already answered. On 6/29/20 7:10 AM, Zdenek Dohnal wrote: > Spoiler alert :) > > It already does. > > On 6/26/20 3:41 PM, Jaroslav Skarvada wrote: >> - Original Message - >>> Adam Williamson < adamw...@fedoraproject.org > 于 2020年6月26日周五 上午9:32写道: >>> >>> >>>

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 7:51:40 PM MST Matthew Miller wrote: > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 10:32:34AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72 > > > > See Markus Larsson's comment on this above... > > > Yeah, but as Michael points out, that doesn't

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/28/20 11:35 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: For the best filesystem ever created, ZFS, I can't say that I agree with your assessment of that value. Having ZFS in Fedora would throw Fedora over the top as being the best Linux distro, hands down. I can count the number of times that having root

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:54:02 AM MST Igor Raits wrote: > On Mon, 2020-06-29 at 00:37 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:32:56 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > > On 6/29/20 12:27 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, June 29, 2020

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:58:30 AM MST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 01:32:41PM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: *snip* > > - Mask/disable systemd-homed > > > Doesn't do anything unless you create some users with homectl. There's no reason for it to be there,

Re: fedora-minimal container and registry negative feedback

2020-06-29 Thread Peter Robinson
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:09 AM Dridi Boukelmoune wrote: > > Greetings, > > I'm not sure whether the minimization effort is still going on but I > wanted to report the pitfalls I ran into moving from the fedora Docker > container to fedora-minimal. > > For starters I was surprised by the absence

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Mark Otaris
The master branch for cp now defaults to copy-on-write on filesystems that support reflinks, which should make copies more efficient if Fedora starts using btrfs: https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/commit/?id=25725f9d41735d176d73a757430739fb71c7d043. Dolphin and KIO also seem like

Re: fedora-minimal container and registry negative feedback

2020-06-29 Thread Dridi Boukelmoune
> > microdnf reinstall tzdata > > There's a bug about this to split out the UTC tzdata into a minimal > tzdata so terrible hacks aren't needed to slim things down. > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1722233 I'll CC myself to this bug but it doesn't look like anything will happen

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:37:08 PM MST Chris Adams wrote: > Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said: > > > XFS proved to be troublesome, and still is up to the latest of RHEL7. It's > > not uncommon to have to run xfs_repair on smaller XFS partitions, > > especially / boot. I'm not sure if

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Igor Raits
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA512 On Mon, 2020-06-29 at 00:37 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:32:56 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > > On 6/29/20 12:27 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:18:28 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > > >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Till Maas
Hi, On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:48:56PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > Nothing in vi's default view (if launched with a file, which is what > happens in this case) tells you you need to press 'insert' in order to > actually edit anything. Nothing in vi's default view tells you you have > to type

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Pavel Valena
- Original Message - > From: "Till Maas" > To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" > > Sent: Monday, June 29, 2020 10:47:58 AM > Subject: Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default > editor > > Hi, > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:48:56PM -0700, Adam

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 11:31:15 PM MST Mark Otaris wrote: > The master branch for cp now defaults to copy-on-write on filesystems > that support reflinks, which should make copies more efficient if > Fedora starts using btrfs: >

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:14:14 PM MST Gerald Henriksen wrote: > On Sun, 28 Jun 2020 09:59:52 -0700, you wrote: > > > >Has that actually been explored? How does Canonical get around the legal > >issues with OpenZFS' licensing? > > > For a start they aren't a US company, and unlike Red Hat

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 6/29/20 12:27 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:18:28 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: On 6/28/20 11:35 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: For the best filesystem ever created, ZFS, I can't say that I agree with your assessment of that value. Having ZFS in Fedora would throw

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:09:16 AM MST Markus Larsson wrote: > On 29 June 2020 08:26:21 CEST, "John M. Harris Jr" > wrote: > >On Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:37:08 PM MST Chris Adams wrote: > > > >> Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said: > >> > >> > >> > XFS proved to be troublesome, and still

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Markus Larsson
On 29 June 2020 04:51:40 CEST, Matthew Miller wrote: >On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 10:32:34AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: >> > Fine :) https://github.com/gwsw/less/issues/72 >> See Markus Larsson's comment on this above... > >Yeah, but as Michael points out, that doesn't really apply: it takes

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-29 Thread Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek
On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 01:32:41PM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > On Sunday, June 28, 2020 12:18:32 PM MST Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 03:34:17PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 10:25:01AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > >

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-29 Thread Florian Weimer
* Chris Adams: > Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said: >> XFS proved to be troublesome, and still is up to the latest of RHEL7. It's >> not >> uncommon to have to run xfs_repair on smaller XFS partitions, especially / >> boot. I'm not sure if btrfs has the same issue there? > > [citation

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Florian Weimer
* Josef Bacik: > That being said I can make btrfs look really stupid on some workloads. > There's going to be cases where Btrfs isn't awesome. We still use xfs > for all our storage related tiers (think databases). Performance is > always going to be workload dependent, and Btrfs has built in

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Zdenek Dohnal
Hi Till, I sent a question to Vim mailing list: https://groups.google.com/g/vim_dev/c/931nvz1TKyg On 6/29/20 10:47 AM, Till Maas wrote: > Hi, > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 06:48:56PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > >> Nothing in vi's default view (if launched with a file, which is what >> happens

fedora-minimal container and registry negative feedback

2020-06-29 Thread Dridi Boukelmoune
Greetings, I'm not sure whether the minimization effort is still going on but I wanted to report the pitfalls I ran into moving from the fedora Docker container to fedora-minimal. For starters I was surprised by the absence of DNF and I had to find by myself, I don't remember how, that MicroDNF

Fedora rawhide compose report: 20200628.n.1 changes

2020-06-29 Thread Fedora Rawhide Report
OLD: Fedora-Rawhide-20200626.n.0 NEW: Fedora-Rawhide-20200628.n.1 = SUMMARY = Added images:0 Dropped images: 0 Added packages: 90 Dropped packages:0 Upgraded packages: 228 Downgraded packages: 1 Size of added packages: 179.20 MiB Size of dropped packages:

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:18:28 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/28/20 11:35 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > For the best filesystem ever created, ZFS, I can't say that I agree with > > your assessment of that value. Having ZFS in Fedora would throw Fedora > > over the top as being the best

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:32:56 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > On 6/29/20 12:27 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:18:28 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > >> On 6/28/20 11:35 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > >> > >> > >> > >>> For the best filesystem ever created, ZFS, I

Re: Remove me as comaintainer/commiter - orphaning packages

2020-06-29 Thread Pierre-Yves Chibon
On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 03:39:34PM +0200, Johan Cwiklinski wrote: > Hello, > > I'm going to stop packaging, so I've orphaned the following packages I > was "maintaining": > - iipsrv > - glpi > - php-elvanto-litemoji > - php-IDNA_Convert > - php-markdown > - php-scssphp-scssphp > - php-simplepie >

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-29 Thread Markus Larsson
On 29 June 2020 08:26:21 CEST, "John M. Harris Jr" wrote: >On Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:37:08 PM MST Chris Adams wrote: >> Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said: >> >> > XFS proved to be troublesome, and still is up to the latest of RHEL7. It's >> > not uncommon to have to run xfs_repair on

java stack is dead, long live the javastack (was "500 packages FTBFS in rawhide with java-11-openjdk as system JDK")

2020-06-29 Thread Jiri Vanek
Current stats from my testing samples: 408 failing 263 passing That is huge improvement. Thank you all. I'm now running last rebuild n copr, and in week or two an mass rebuild will be taken in koji. There was an discussion what the border will be, when to force this change, or when to step

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Eric Sandeen
On 6/29/20 1:31 AM, Mark Otaris wrote: > The master branch for cp now defaults to copy-on-write on filesystems > that support reflinks, which should make copies more efficient if > Fedora starts using btrfs: >

Questions on an update to javamail in ursine

2020-06-29 Thread Jie Kang
Hi all, javamail ursine is using version 1.5.2 while there are some module streams at 1.6.x The upstream project also moved to the eclipse foundation and these 1.6.x releases have different exports for OSGi, making an update to them potentially breaking for users. I'd like to update ursine to

Re: RHEL 9 and modularity

2020-06-29 Thread Pat Riehecky
Thanks for providing this information! I'll confess my primary worry/complaint about Modularity/AppStream in RHEL8 is one of lifecycle. The default Stream in RHEL8 does not have the full 10 year lifecycle[1] present in RHEL7. Folks doing a standard 'yum install ' get the default stream,

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Armin Wehrfritz
> I'm strongly against this proposal. BTRFS is the most unstable file > system I ever seen. It can break up even under an ideal conditions and > lead to a complete data loss. There are lots of complaints and bug > reports in Linux kernel bugzilla and Reddit. Without providing evidence, this is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread David Kaufmann
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 06:11:58AM -0400, Pavel Valena wrote: > TL;DR please, +1 for nano, as "trial by fire" is not a good first > experience for someone who just wants to get something done. This is not "trial by fire", it is just a different interface than people are used from notepad.exe. Vi

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Josef Bacik
On 6/29/20 5:33 AM, Florian Weimer wrote: * Josef Bacik: That being said I can make btrfs look really stupid on some workloads. There's going to be cases where Btrfs isn't awesome. We still use xfs for all our storage related tiers (think databases). Performance is always going to be

Orphaned python-jupyterlab-launcher

2020-06-29 Thread Miro Hrončok
I've orphaned python-jupyterlab-launcher. I've packaged it in an attempt to package jupyterlab, but I have never got to it :( The package now FTBFS because I have removed tests from the python3-notebook RPM. If somebody wants python-jupyterlab-launcher, I can add python3-notebook-tests

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Armin Wehrfritz
> OpenZFS is frequently lagging behind in support for newer kernels which would > work against > Fedora's "rolling" approach to kernel releases. Yes, there is quite often a time delay between kernel releases and OpenZFS releases that contain compatibility patches. However, in my experience, the

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Gerald Henriksen
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 10:47:58 +0200, you wrote: >since vim addresses this when opened without a file and it is open >source, it seems to me to be a good idea to propose to adjust vim >behaviour to show the help overview when opening a file as well. For >example if there is no ~/.vimrc or some

Re: Orphaned 215 packages

2020-06-29 Thread Jared K. Smith
On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 8:34 PM Sérgio Basto wrote: > I'd like be joined to NodeJS group to be able to fix some nodejs FTBFS > packages. > I have added you to the NodeJS SIG group in FAS. Welcome to the SIG! -Jared ___ devel mailing list --

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Neal Gompa
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:16 AM John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:54:02 AM MST Igor Raits wrote: > > On Mon, 2020-06-29 at 00:37 -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > > > > On Monday, June 29, 2020 12:32:56 AM MST Samuel Sieb wrote: > > > > > > > On 6/29/20 12:27 AM, John M.

Re: Remove me as comaintainer/commiter - orphaning packages

2020-06-29 Thread Johan Cwiklinski
Hello, Le 29/06/2020 à 09:59, Pierre-Yves Chibon a écrit : > I went ahead and removed you from these packages. Thanks. > Thank you for these years of contributions to Fedora! It was a great pleasure and experience :-) Best regards, -- Johan ___

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Solomon Peachy
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:33:40AM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: > Just to be clear here, the choice of XFS here is purely based on > performance, not on the reliability of the file systems, right? > (So it's not “all the really important data is stored in XFS”.) Be careful about overloading quite

Re: [fedora-java] java stack is dead, long live the javastack (was "500 packages FTBFS in rawhide with java-11-openjdk as system JDK")

2020-06-29 Thread Aleksandar Kurtakov
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:39 PM Jiri Vanek wrote: > Current stats from my testing samples: > 408 failing > 263 passing > > Are these numbers reversed ^^^ ? Looking at https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/g/java-maint-sig/java-11-default/monitor/ I see a bit more than 200 ftbfs. > That is

Re: fedora-minimal container and registry negative feedback

2020-06-29 Thread Clement Verna
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 12:59, Dridi Boukelmoune wrote: > > > microdnf reinstall tzdata > > > > There's a bug about this to split out the UTC tzdata into a minimal > > tzdata so terrible hacks aren't needed to slim things down. > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1722233 > > I'll

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-29 Thread Chris Murphy
On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 7:09 PM Michael Catanzaro wrote: > I'd like to propose a few guidelines: > > 1. If btrfs causes noticeable performance issues for users, that's not > OK. It's understood and expected that it might be slower at many > workloads, but if the difference is large enough that

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-29 Thread Matthew Miller
On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 10:09:08PM +0200, Markus Larsson wrote: > I was thinking more in the lines of a Remix. > Mainly to avoid spending time trying to get it blessed in the right > forums. Sure, you could do that too. The process is to submit it as a Change to FESCo just like this one, and

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Markus Larsson
On 29 June 2020 17:36:15 CEST, Armin Wehrfritz wrote: >> It is not acceptable that there is a range of time that people would >> literally not be able to mount their file systems because the kernel >> module would not build. >I would say that is a rather unlikely scenario to happen given how

Re: List of long term FTBFS packages to be retired in August

2020-06-29 Thread alexandrebfarias
I'm interested in helping with those NodeJS packages. -- Alexandre de Farias / etinin On Mon, Jun 29, 2020, 12:50 Vít Ondruch wrote: > > Dne 29. 06. 20 v 17:21 Miro Hrončok napsal(a): > > js-jquery1 nodejs-sig, patches, vondruch Fedora 30 > > js-jquery2 vondruch

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: swap on zram

2020-06-29 Thread Markus Larsson
On 29 June 2020 18:06:10 CEST, Matthew Miller wrote: >On Sat, Jun 27, 2020 at 10:09:08PM +0200, Markus Larsson wrote: >> I was thinking more in the lines of a Remix. >> Mainly to avoid spending time trying to get it blessed in the right >> forums. > >Sure, you could do that too. The process is

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Florian Weimer
* Solomon Peachy: > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:33:40AM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: >> Just to be clear here, the choice of XFS here is purely based on >> performance, not on the reliability of the file systems, right? >> (So it's not “all the really important data is stored in XFS”.) > > Be

Re: List of long term FTBFS packages to be retired in August

2020-06-29 Thread Vít Ondruch
Dne 29. 06. 20 v 17:21 Miro Hrončok napsal(a): > js-jquery1 nodejs-sig, patches, vondruch   Fedora 30 > js-jquery2 vondruch    Fedora 30 > js-sizzle  nodejs-sig, patches, vondruch   Fedora 30 > I was ranting about js-jquery (and js-sizzle

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Matthew Miller
On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 09:59:52AM -0700, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > > We cannot include ZFS in Fedora for legal reasons. Additionally, ZFS is not > > really intended for the laptop use case. > Has that actually been explored? How does Canonical get around the legal > issues with OpenZFS'

Heads up: changing the subject format of change proposal announcements

2020-06-29 Thread Ben Cotton
Just in case anyone is parsing the subject line of change proposal announcements (I really hope not, but if you are, please let me know off-list what your use case is. I'm curious), I'm going to make a change to how these are formatted. I will replace "Fedora Change proposal: " with " - Fedora

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Armin Wehrfritz
> It is not acceptable that there is a range of time that people would > literally not be able to mount their file systems because the kernel > module would not build. I would say that is a rather unlikely scenario to happen given how engaged the OpenZFS developers are in maintaining Linux kernel

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make nano the default editor

2020-06-29 Thread Kamil Paral
On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 9:21 PM Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2020-06-25 at 13:18 -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/UseNanoByDefault > > > > == Summary == > > > > Let's make Fedora more approachable, by having a default editor that > > doesn't require

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Ondrej Kozina
On 6/26/20 5:23 PM, Tomasz Torcz wrote: Disadvantages: using encryption is harder. GRUB2 supports only LUKS1 encryption (AFAIK). Obviously, there is not plymouth integration, so the password would have to be entered at least twice. When not using encryption above is not a problem. There's

Re: Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal: Make btrfs the default file system for desktop variants

2020-06-29 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:55 AM Solomon Peachy wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 11:33:40AM +0200, Florian Weimer wrote: > > Just to be clear here, the choice of XFS here is purely based on > > performance, not on the reliability of the file systems, right? > > (So it's not “all the really

Re: User experience issue on btrfs

2020-06-29 Thread Eric Sandeen
On 6/29/20 3:19 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote: > On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:09:16 AM MST Markus Larsson wrote: >> On 29 June 2020 08:26:21 CEST, "John M. Harris Jr" >> wrote: >>> On Sunday, June 28, 2020 5:37:08 PM MST Chris Adams wrote: >>> Once upon a time, John M. Harris Jr said:

Re: fedora-minimal container and registry negative feedback

2020-06-29 Thread Dridi Boukelmoune
> The blank pages are flatpaks. We are using the same registry for containers > and flatpaks and the upstream project[0] used for registry.fp.o does not > support flatpaks so the page is just blank. That can't be right, fedora-minimal is a docker/an OCI image, isn't it? > There has not been

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