Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-21 Thread Sudhir Khanger
On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 9:04 AM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: KDE has the setting in Apper under [Tools icon⌄] Preferences in the first (selected by default) tab (General Settings). It's called Check for updates:, and it's a dropdown list with the options Hourly, Daily, Weekly,

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-18 Thread Nikos Roussos
Upon doing a yum upgrade, but rejecting the actual upgrade: [root@localhost cache]# du -sh * 94M dnf 446M PackageKit 137M yum Is it considered safe to uninstall yum on F21 and keep only dnf for cli package management? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-18 Thread Andrew Clayton
On Thu, 18 Dec 2014 04:34:46 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: Richard Hughes wrote: I'm erring on the network panel in gnome-control-center; but I agree there's no really good place for this kind of thing. KDE has the setting in Apper under [Tools icon⌄] Preferences in the first (selected by

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Richard Hughes
On 17 December 2014 at 00:00, Michael Catanzaro mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: This particular setting is frequently-requested and extremely important for users in the developing world and users who tether, so I think it would be good to provide it somewhere in the UI. (But where?) I'm erring on

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Richard Hughes
On 16 December 2014 at 23:40, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: feels like new faster and larger hardware is for 90% used that developers don't need to consider ressource constraints because i don#t see that much more functionality or in fact over the last 10 years GNOME vene removed

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 17.12.2014 um 10:17 schrieb Richard Hughes: On 16 December 2014 at 23:40, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: feels like new faster and larger hardware is for 90% used that developers don't need to consider ressource constraints because i don#t see that much more functionality or in

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Tim Lauridsen
On Tue Dec 16 2014 at 9:09:59 PM Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: Fresh installation of Fedora 21 Workstation, accepting defaults, I then reboot and notice the following contents of /var/cache, filtering out things not relevant for this discussion (which also happen to not change

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Hedayat Vatankhah
/*Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com*/ wrote on Wed, 17 Dec 2014 09:14:38 +: On 17 December 2014 at 00:00, Michael Catanzaro mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: This particular setting is frequently-requested and extremely important for users in the developing world and users who tether, so I

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Chris Murphy
On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 December 2014 at 20:09, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: [root@localhost cache]# du -sh * 94M dnf 446M PackageKit 4.0K yum I think you're overstating the amount of metadata for PK for two reasons:

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Ray Strode
Hi, On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 4:14 AM, Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: I'm erring on the network panel in gnome-control-center; but I agree there's no really good place for this kind of thing. maybe key whether or not to download updates based on the zone (which is used strictly for

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Robert Marcano
On Dec 17, 2014 4:44 AM, Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: On 17 December 2014 at 00:00, Michael Catanzaro mcatanz...@gnome.org wrote: This particular setting is frequently-requested and extremely important for users in the developing world and users who tether, so I think it would

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Kevin Kofler
Richard Hughes wrote: I'm erring on the network panel in gnome-control-center; but I agree there's no really good place for this kind of thing. KDE has the setting in Apper under [Tools icon⌄] Preferences in the first (selected by default) tab (General Settings). It's called Check for

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-17 Thread Nico Kadel-Garcia
On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 4:17 AM, Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com wrote: On 16 December 2014 at 23:40, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: feels like new faster and larger hardware is for 90% used that developers don't need to consider ressource constraints because i don#t see that

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-16 Thread Chris Murphy
Fresh installation of Fedora 21 Workstation, accepting defaults, I then reboot and notice the following contents of /var/cache, filtering out things not relevant for this discussion (which also happen to not change between the three states). Starting point right after installation:

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-16 Thread Hedayat Vatankhah
/*Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com*/ wrote on Tue, 16 Dec 2014 13:09:47 -0700: Fresh installation of Fedora 21 Workstation, accepting defaults, I then reboot and notice the following contents of /var/cache, filtering out things not relevant for this discussion (which also happen to not

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-16 Thread Hedayat Vatankhah
/*Colin Walters walt...@verbum.org*/ wrote on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 15:32:09 -0500: On Mon, Dec 15, 2014, at 02:17 PM, Hedayat Vatankhah wrote: and then a 'systemctl mask ...' command to mask dnf makecache timer/service using sudo/su; This one should help with that one:

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-16 Thread Richard Hughes
On 16 December 2014 at 20:09, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: [root@localhost cache]# du -sh * 94M dnf 446M PackageKit 4.0K yum I think you're overstating the amount of metadata for PK for two reasons: 1. This is for my current system, with a few repos installed: 67M

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-16 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 16.12.2014 um 22:29 schrieb Richard Hughes: On 16 December 2014 at 20:09, Chris Murphy li...@colorremedies.com wrote: [root@localhost cache]# du -sh * 94M dnf 446M PackageKit 4.0K yum I think you're overstating the amount of metadata for PK for two reasons: no 1. This is for my

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-16 Thread Michael Catanzaro
On Mon, 2014-12-15 at 14:45 +, Richard Hughes wrote: On 15 December 2014 at 14:38, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: ...grown up user expects grown up users (whatever that means) can do gsettings set org.gnome.software download-updates false Richard My $0.02: You've done

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Richard Hughes
On 13 December 2014 at 21:10, Hedayat Vatankhah hedayat@gmail.com wrote: Surprisingly, PackageKit uses its own separate cache. Not surprising at all, when you're familiar with how PackageKit works. PackageKit has to accept transactions from clients and return results very quickly. Just

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Hedayat Vatankhah
/*Richard Hughes hughsi...@gmail.com*/ wrote on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 09:37:27 +: On 13 December 2014 at 21:10, Hedayat Vatankhahhedayat@gmail.com wrote: Surprisingly, PackageKit uses its own separate cache. Not surprising at all, when you're familiar with how PackageKit works.

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Richard Hughes
On 15 December 2014 at 13:09, Hedayat Vatankhah hedayat@gmail.com wrote: 1. If PK really needs its own *copy* of the cache, that's OK (well, not OK but acceptable), but IMHO it should not download it independently too. But yum/dnf only download the files it needs for the single operation,

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Dridi Boukelmoune
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Hedayat Vatankhah hedayat@gmail.com wrote: 2. I believe that the use should know, and more importantly be able to control WHEN the repo data is being updated. At the very least, he should be able to specify if the updates are automatic or not using a very

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Felix Schwarz
Am 15.12.2014 um 14:29 schrieb Richard Hughes: At the moment the PK front-ends only download when on wifi or wired. Do you have an actual use-case for per-network configuration? Well I think the whole idea of wifi === unmetered is flawed. For example I use a UMTS/Wifi router so I can use

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Robert Marcano
On 12/15/2014 09:38 AM, Felix Schwarz wrote: Am 15.12.2014 um 14:29 schrieb Richard Hughes: At the moment the PK front-ends only download when on wifi or wired. Do you have an actual use-case for per-network configuration? Well I think the whole idea of wifi === unmetered is flawed. For

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Richard Hughes
On 15 December 2014 at 14:08, Felix Schwarz fschw...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Well I think the whole idea of wifi === unmetered is flawed. It's as good a metric as we've got. When you set up a personal bridge between UMTS/wifi, or even GPRS/wired there's no metadata on the connection about this

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 15.12.2014 um 15:32 schrieb Richard Hughes: On 15 December 2014 at 14:08, Felix Schwarz fschw...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Well I think the whole idea of wifi === unmetered is flawed. It's as good a metric as we've got. When you set up a personal bridge between UMTS/wifi, or even

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Richard Hughes
On 15 December 2014 at 14:38, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: ...grown up user expects grown up users (whatever that means) can do gsettings set org.gnome.software download-updates false Richard -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 15.12.2014 um 15:45 schrieb Richard Hughes: On 15 December 2014 at 14:38, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: ...grown up user expects grown up users (whatever that means) can do gsettings set org.gnome.software download-updates false sarcasmwhat a nice usability/sarcasm

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Robert Marcano
On 12/15/2014 10:02 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: On 15 December 2014 at 14:08, Felix Schwarz fschw...@fedoraproject.org wrote: Well I think the whole idea of wifi === unmetered is flawed. It's as good a metric as we've got. When you set up a personal bridge between UMTS/wifi, or even GPRS/wired

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Richard Hughes
On 15 December 2014 at 15:07, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: sarcasmwhat a nice usability/sarcasm I don't think usability means what you think it means. Richard. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 15.12.2014 um 16:43 schrieb Richard Hughes: On 15 December 2014 at 15:07, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: sarcasmwhat a nice usability/sarcasm I don't think usability means what you think it means it means to have options visible and not burried in a windows like GNOME

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Robert Marcano
On 12/15/2014 10:15 AM, Richard Hughes wrote: On 15 December 2014 at 14:38, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote: ...grown up user expects grown up users (whatever that means) can do gsettings set org.gnome.software download-updates false Devices designed for not grown up users has

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Kevin Kofler
Robert Marcano wrote: I don't know why the time to rebuild rpms is important, updates are now applied at boot time, so rpms can be rebuilt with smaller nice/ionice before the user reboots (on Workstation product). Offline updates are only a (mis)feature of the GNOME Workstation product. The

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Matthias Clasen
On Mon, 2014-12-15 at 18:01 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: Robert Marcano wrote: I don't know why the time to rebuild rpms is important, updates are now applied at boot time, so rpms can be rebuilt with smaller nice/ionice before the user reboots (on Workstation product). Offline updates are

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Matthew Miller
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 01:29:21PM +, Richard Hughes wrote: At the moment the PK front-ends only download when on wifi or wired. Do you have an actual use-case for per-network configuration? I'd definitely like to select which wifi connections are used. I don't want to be eating up the

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Andrew Lutomirski
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com wrote: On Mon, 2014-12-15 at 18:01 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: Robert Marcano wrote: I don't know why the time to rebuild rpms is important, updates are now applied at boot time, so rpms can be rebuilt with smaller

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Hedayat Vatankhah
/*Matthias Clasen*/ wrote on Mon, 15 Dec 2014 12:38:54 -0500: On Mon, 2014-12-15 at 18:01 +0100, Kevin Kofler wrote: Robert Marcano wrote: I don't know why the time to rebuild rpms is important, updates are now applied at boot time, so rpms can be rebuilt with smaller nice/ionice before the

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-15 Thread Colin Walters
On Mon, Dec 15, 2014, at 02:17 PM, Hedayat Vatankhah wrote: and then a 'systemctl mask ...' command to mask dnf makecache timer/service using sudo/su; This one should help with that one: https://github.com/rpm-software-management/dnf/pull/186 -- devel mailing list

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-14 Thread Hedayat Vatankhah
/*Samuel Sieb sam...@sieb.net*/ wrote on Sat, 13 Dec 2014 23:32:23 -0800: On 12/13/2014 01:10 PM, Hedayat Vatankhah wrote: Hi! I noticed that F21 can potentially download repository metadata 3 times: 1. Yum cache 2. DNF cache 3. PackageKit cache! It really hurts to see I'm not aware of the

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-14 Thread Sudhir Khanger
On Sunday, December 14, 2014 12:09:14 PM Hedayat Vatankhah wrote: I'd call it evil. Apparently, nobody around here cares. I think I should start thinking about my own Fedora for Poor product. It certainly affects me. Most decision are being made on two assumptions 1. people have fast and

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-14 Thread Rahul Sundaram
Hi On Sun, Dec 14, 2014 at 5:17 AM, Sudhir Khanger wrote: DNF regularly downloads cache, disables delta RPM support, and doesn't support local repos. With the latest dnf update, Delta RPM support is enabled again.

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-14 Thread Kevin Kofler
Sudhir Khanger wrote: Most decision are being made on two assumptions 1. people have fast and unlimited internet connections and 2. people have high RAM and multiple core CPU powerful computers. Both of these assumptions are arbitrarily at best. DNF regularly downloads cache, disables delta

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-14 Thread Robert Marcano
On Dec 14, 2014 10:12 PM, Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at wrote: Sudhir Khanger wrote: Most decision are being made on two assumptions 1. people have fast and unlimited internet connections and 2. people have high RAM and multiple core CPU powerful computers. Both of these assumptions

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-13 Thread Reindl Harald
Am 13.12.2014 um 22:10 schrieb Hedayat Vatankhah: I noticed that F21 can potentially download repository metadata 3 times: 1. Yum cache 2. DNF cache 3. PackageKit cache! It really hurts to see how Fedora ignorance towards different kind of users is being increased as time passes. If Fedora is

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-13 Thread Hedayat Vatankhah
/*Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net*/ wrote on Sat, 13 Dec 2014 22:19:25 +0100: Am 13.12.2014 um 22:10 schrieb Hedayat Vatankhah: I noticed that F21 can potentially download repository metadata 3 times: 1. Yum cache 2. DNF cache 3. PackageKit cache! It really hurts to see how Fedora

Re: F21 downloads repository metadata in 3 places!

2014-12-13 Thread Samuel Sieb
On 12/13/2014 01:10 PM, Hedayat Vatankhah wrote: Hi! I noticed that F21 can potentially download repository metadata 3 times: 1. Yum cache 2. DNF cache 3. PackageKit cache! It really hurts to see I'm not aware of the PackageKit cache, where is it? I did accidentally discover about dnf