Re: Fedora Notifications System.
Manuel Escudero wrote: Shut up kevin... Please watch your language. The points I'm making are very important, telling me to be quiet (in a not very nice way) is not going to solve the fundamental problem. the code is opensource and you can have it if you want, you can modify it... The few lines of HTML you wrote, yes. The code at Google that powers all this, no. Shut up. Linux is linux, no one is insulting no one Ubuntu One is a proprietary service by Canonical which doesn't have anything to do with GNU/Linux, or even Ubuntu except for the name. Many people in the Ubuntu community also complain about this. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
dead It would be more appropriate to have this discussion to take place on openetherpad.org instead of Google Wave. As at least everyone can participate instead of these few with wave account or those who paid for it ;-) Gerard -- Gerard Braad — 吉拉德 Project-lead Fedora-MIPS http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
2010/8/29 Gerard Braad gbr...@fedoraproject.org dead It would be more appropriate to have this discussion to take place on openetherpad.org instead of Google Wave. As at least everyone can participate instead of these few with wave account or those who paid for it ;-) Gerard -- Gerard Braad — 吉拉德 Project-lead Fedora-MIPS http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel 1) No one has to pay for a Google Wave Account, it's free, anyone with a Gmail can use it 2) I didn't know about ubuntuone, but I like to use it, it's just for download files!! we're here like religious fans arguing about what is or what isn't opensource, that's just a thing without sense... (I hate Fanaticism) 3) We're already using a GOOGLE SEARCH BOX!! in http://start.fedoraproject.org/ ¿Do you have the code for this one? NO. And Fedora Project is using it. I'm sharing a Fedora Solution an applied search engine for the community. and I can add as many collaborators as I want, I can share my code, I can Modify it, it's more opensource that the one that we're already using... -- -Manuel Escudero- Linux User #509052 @GWave: jmlev...@googlewave.com @Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog) PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Manuel Escudero wrote: 2010/8/29 Gerard Braad gbr...@fedoraproject.org dead It would be more appropriate to have this discussion to take place on openetherpad.org instead of Google Wave. As at least everyone can participate instead of these few with wave account or those who paid for it ;-) Gerard -- Gerard Braad — 吉拉德 Project-lead Fedora-MIPS http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel 1) No one has to pay for a Google Wave Account, it's free, anyone with a Gmail can use it 2) I didn't know about ubuntuone, but I like to use it, it's just for download files!! we're here like religious fans arguing about what is or what isn't opensource, that's just a thing without sense... (I hate Fanaticism) 3) We're already using a GOOGLE SEARCH BOX!! in http://start.fedoraproject.org/ ¿Do you have the code for this one? NO. And Fedora Project is using it. I'm sharing a Fedora Solution an applied search engine for the community. and I can add as many collaborators as I want, I can share my code, I can Modify it, it's more opensource that the one that we're already using... Just to make this clear on 3). We grandfathered that in, meaning it is now against policy to do more of it but we didn't remove it because it had historical significance. Though I believe we're in the works to replace the start page with something else. -Mike-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
2010/8/29 Mike McGrath mmcgr...@redhat.com On Sun, 29 Aug 2010, Manuel Escudero wrote: 2010/8/29 Gerard Braad gbr...@fedoraproject.org dead It would be more appropriate to have this discussion to take place on openetherpad.org instead of Google Wave. As at least everyone can participate instead of these few with wave account or those who paid for it ;-) Gerard -- Gerard Braad — 吉拉德 Project-lead Fedora-MIPS http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:gbraad -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel 1) No one has to pay for a Google Wave Account, it's free, anyone with a Gmail can use it 2) I didn't know about ubuntuone, but I like to use it, it's just for download files!! we're here like religious fans arguing about what is or what isn't opensource, that's just a thing without sense... (I hate Fanaticism) 3) We're already using a GOOGLE SEARCH BOX!! in http://start.fedoraproject.org/ ¿Do you have the code for this one? NO. And Fedora Project is using it. I'm sharing a Fedora Solution an applied search engine for the community. and I can add as many collaborators as I want, I can share my code, I can Modify it, it's more opensource that the one that we're already using... Just to make this clear on 3). We grandfathered that in, meaning it is now against policy to do more of it but we didn't remove it because it had historical significance. Though I believe we're in the works to replace the start page with something else. -Mike -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN... With Fedora's engine I'm giving you the chance of having something more opensource and also more specific and useful for the fedora users who want to search things all around the web. -- -Manuel Escudero- Linux User #509052 @GWave: jmlev...@googlewave.com @Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog) PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
Manuel Escudero wrote: We have to continue! I propouse using Google's stuff in order to have a Standard for all desktops and maybe linux distros... A standard relying on proprietary Google (and other) web services? No thanks! I called it the Fedora's Engine and is built over Google's CSE Technology Proprietary web service. You can preview the working engine here:* *http://tinyurl.com/fedorasengine Tinyurl, another proprietary web service. And If you want to Download the .html file with the code, it's right here: http://ubuntuone.com/p/E04/ And this one (the service you used to share your code) is outright an insult to our community! Hope you find this idea useful :) I'm sorry, but our community is built around Free Software! So if you want to design something useful for our community, you need to design with and for Free Software, not proprietary web services. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 3:07 AM, Ben Boeckel maths...@gmail.com wrote: Don't they share a D-Bus API these days? they do. On Fri, Aug 27, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Jaroslav Reznik jrez...@redhat.com wrote: Why? Just use system dbus notifications and you're done. But as I suggested - it should be used only for critical notifications - non-critical should go just through some kind of RSS feed or similar. R. this is what i did, the first prototype uses the dbus which means it should work on all desktops. about the fact of the critical non-critical alerts, i think you should subscribe the fedora announce mailing list, you'll not get more than 3 messages a month at most. this is the number of alerts i expect the user to get, 3 a month, at most. -- Regards,, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad @meGenius -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 06:30 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote: 3. keep a history of the notifications 4. max. number of notifications at the time 5. click able notifications 6. stackable notifications I think that, at least on KDE, you really want to leave that stuff to the KNotify system, I have to agree with Kevin here (!). Employing a notification system in parallel to the ones already provides by the desktop environment is a total nonstarter. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 06:30 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: I have to agree with Kevin here (!). Employing a notification system in parallel to the ones already provides by the desktop environment is a total nonstarter. in fact, your point means there will be two versions, KDE version other desktops version, which imo is not the best call. however, after seeing the big number of the alternative solutions, the bigger number of the disagreements, i'm going to stop for a while before i make sure whether i should continue or not. -- Regards,, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad @meGenius -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
2010/8/26 Mahmoud Abdul Jawad abduljawad.mahm...@gmail.com On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Matthias Clasen mcla...@redhat.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-08-26 at 06:30 +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: I have to agree with Kevin here (!). Employing a notification system in parallel to the ones already provides by the desktop environment is a total nonstarter. in fact, your point means there will be two versions, KDE version other desktops version, which imo is not the best call. however, after seeing the big number of the alternative solutions, the bigger number of the disagreements, i'm going to stop for a while before i make sure whether i should continue or not. -- Regards,, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad @meGenius -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel We have to continue! I propouse using Google's stuff in order to have a Standard for all desktops and maybe linux distros... By the moment I've created a Fedora's search engine for hermes, here is the official announcement: Quoted Mail: Hi! I've been working in a project called Hermes (For more information refer to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Hermes) The idea is to build a Feed Parser customizable by the user that notifies when there are important news... As an additional feature I wanted to integrate a FEDORA SEARCH BOX, so I tought I might use the one that's in http://start.fedoraproject.org/ But I asked some users and I tried it discovering that that search box was a normal, common Google's Search Box. In order to provide a better information service for the user, I tought that building a Fedora's Custom Search Engine based on Google might be useful in both ways to HERMES and the http://start.fedoraproject.org/ webpage, so I built one. I called it the Fedora's Engine and is built over Google's CSE Technology, it's multilanguage, UTF-8 encoded and it has two options: Search the Whole web making emphasis in some sites or Search the Whole web The first option makes a search consult all along the web but it make emphasis in these sites: http://goo.gl/cRfP (Click to see the list) The second option give the same results as if you're searching on Google The Search Engine has the autofill option enabled and it's fedora branded, as you may see I included all the Fedora relevant sites so this engine is a fully fedora search engine that we can use in the Hermes Project and also in the http://start.fedoraproject.org/ webpage. The code is right here: http://fpaste.org/DmBz/ You can preview the working engine here:* *http://tinyurl.com/fedorasengine And If you want to Download the .html file with the code, it's right here: http://ubuntuone.com/p/E04/ Hope you find this idea useful :) -- -Manuel Escudero- Linux User #509052 @GWave: jmlev...@googlewave.com @Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog) PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
In gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel Mahmoud Abdul Jawad abduljawad.mahm...@gmail.com wrote: in fact, your point means there will be two versions, KDE version other desktops version, Don't they share a D-Bus API these days? --Ben -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Tuesday, August 24, 2010 06:26:52 pm Manuel Escudero wrote: 2010/8/24 Garrett Holmstrom gho...@fedoraproject.org Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Reading this - I'm not sure all Fedora notifications should go through system notification system. Why? I understand it for urgent/priority notification like Close your desktop, nuclear war out there (or just a security update combined with some steps how to fix it). But I hope it should work for a lot of things like Fedora elections etc. - this should for example go to your calendar, some tips how to use Fedora (just a RSS feed like Plasma widget?) etc. That essentially already exists [0], so just point your existing widgets at that. I personally think that shoving things of this nature in users' faces is not the job of an operating system. [0] http://planet.fedoraproject.org/atom.xml -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel @Jaroslav: The idea is to have a way to communicate Fedora with the user and viceversa... If Fedora has another Important Bug like the Update One in Fedora 13 Hermes will tell the user inmediatly and it will say the user how to fix it. The idea is to have not only a notification system, but also a way to keep the user in touch with Fedora. I think that if there's already a plasma widget for a RSS Feed Parser (Or a screenlet in case of gnome) we can start working from there... I'll also would like to offer the user a search bar in hermes that uses fedora's database to give search results to the user, so when someone using fedora wants to know a HowTo instead of using Google, they'll have the option of Fedora answering them Yes, we have plain RSS widget, the whole Plasma Desktop is completely scriptable so it offers lot of opportunites how we can interact with our users. I'll try to think more about it ;-) Thanks Jaroslav @Garret: Many things are not the job of an operating system already... The idea is to transform Fedora in more that just software... Let's transform it into a intelligent enviroment concerned about it's users and powered by it's community... -- Jaroslav Řezník jrez...@redhat.com Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 602 797 774 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Tuesday, August 24, 2010 21:11:56 Kevin Kofler wrote: Michal Hlavinka wrote: disagree, have you seen your notifications after leaving your computer alone for several hours with IM client connected (with whatever status)? You'll get tons of User XY has changed status to: blah blah Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non- exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we should disable it by default in kde-settings? afaik it's enabled by default and not only for kopete. Kopete as many other apps uses kde notifications subsystem for a long time. You can check it in system settings-notifications. I don't think it should go to different kind of notifications or where/how do you think these notifications should be displayed? IMHO kde notifications miss at least timeout settings for notifications, because some notifications should be permanent (closed by user), some of them should die after some time and some of them should be obsoleted (done by application sending the notification) - for example kopete - there's deffinitely no need to have both 9:35:04 User Xyz is typing and 9:35:08 User Xyz send new message: notifications -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
Michal Hlavinka wrote: Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non- exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we should disable it by default in kde-settings? afaik it's enabled by default and not only for kopete. Kopete as many other apps uses kde notifications subsystem for a long time. The problem is not that notifications are enabled by default (of course they are), but what kind of notifications are enabled. The ones Kopete issues don't make sense. You can check it in system settings-notifications. I don't think it should go to different kind of notifications or where/how do you think these notifications should be displayed? Not at all. A change in online status of a contact should be reflected in your contact list, but is otherwise irrelevant. for example kopete - there's deffinitely no need to have both 9:35:04 User Xyz is typing and 9:35:08 User Xyz send new message: notifications That User Xyz is typing notification is also unhelpful and redundant and should just be disabled by default. I'll bring this up in the KDE SIG meetings, I think we should really disable that stuff by default in kde-settings. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Wednesday, August 25, 2010 11:13:29 Kevin Kofler wrote: Michal Hlavinka wrote: Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non- exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we should disable it by default in kde-settings? afaik it's enabled by default and not only for kopete. Kopete as many other apps uses kde notifications subsystem for a long time. The problem is not that notifications are enabled by default (of course they are), but what kind of notifications are enabled. The ones Kopete issues don't make sense. You can check it in system settings-notifications. I don't think it should go to different kind of notifications or where/how do you think these notifications should be displayed? Not at all. A change in online status of a contact should be reflected in your contact list, but is otherwise irrelevant. it's not irrelevant if you are trying to catch online someone who is online only time to time for example kopete - there's deffinitely no need to have both 9:35:04 User Xyz is typing and 9:35:08 User Xyz send new message: notifications That User Xyz is typing notification is also unhelpful and redundant and should just be disabled by default. also has use case for me, so even this is disabled by default, I'll turn it on again I'll bring this up in the KDE SIG meetings, I think we should really disable that stuff by default in kde-settings. disabling something won't fix it, also I don't think this is that bad that it requires extra patch to turn it off by default and diverge from upstream -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
after spending two days reading the two fedora mailing lists (fedora users fedora devel), i got a list of ideas that need to be implemented in order to keep the things up: 1. the abililty to turn off the system 2. smart notifications (maybe multilanguage, geolocation-based, time-aware notes) 3. keep a history of the notifications 4. max. number of notifications at the time 5. click able notifications 6. stackable notifications 7. manageable feeds any issue about any of those points?? -- Regards,, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad @meGenius -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
2010/8/24 Manuel Escudero jmlev...@gmail.com 2010/8/24 Kevin Kofler kevin.kof...@chello.at Michal Hlavinka wrote: disagree, have you seen your notifications after leaving your computer alone for several hours with IM client connected (with whatever status)? You'll get tons of User XY has changed status to: blah blah Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non- exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we should disable it by default in kde-settings? Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Hey people! I have an advance for you, it's somewhat interesting... We're close to have what we're looking for... I'll share a video soon... :D -- -Manuel Escudero- Linux User #509052 @GWave: jmlev...@googlewave.com @Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog) PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6 Well, now I have free time, let's see... I've been investigating and there's a Plasma Widget called RSSNOW, That's for KDE... and For Gnome and derivates, there's a Feed Reader Screenlet... We also have a Fedora Search Engine So I was thinking in something like this: http://ubuntuone.com/p/DuN/ I dont' know if it's possible to tweak the code of these apps, Or we can use Google Gadgets as a Base, we build a Feed Parser that let the user suscribe to a fedora Feed (Like planet's one or the twitter/facebook ones or something else) so the users can select what kind of news they wanna recieve and everytime there's a new update the parser pop out and send a visual notification to the user. Now, this is the Fedora search engine: http://ubuntuone.com/p/DuP/ I was wondering if it's possible to integrate a search box into hermes that uses that engine as a base... I wanted to share a video of the basic idea but these pictures are enough :) -- -Manuel Escudero- Linux User #509052 @GWave: jmlev...@googlewave.com @Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog) PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
2010/8/25 Mika Kuusela m...@lists.mail.kapsi.fi On Wed, 2010-08-25 at 20:05 -0500, Manuel Escudero wrote: Now, this is the Fedora search engine: http://ubuntuone.com/p/DuP/ I was wondering if it's possible to integrate a search box into hermes that uses that engine as a base... The start.fedoraproject.org search engine is nothing but a Google search box. AFAIK, there have been discussions on the advisory-board list that something should be done with it, either make it to redirect to fedoraproject.org or something else. -- Mika Kuusela wilmore @ #fedora-qa -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel @Mika: Thank's for the info, I've got another idea ;) -- -Manuel Escudero- Linux User #509052 @GWave: jmlev...@googlewave.com @Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog) PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
Manuel Escudero wrote: I dont' know if it's possible to tweak the code of these apps, Or we can use Google Gadgets as a Base, Please don't rely on Google stuff. The native RSS plasmoid is just fine. There's also Akregator, which is a regular KDE app to browse RSS feeds. We don't really need to tweak their code, we just need to set them to the right feed. For the plasmoid, this can be done with Plasma scripting. Akregator takes command-line arguments. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
Michal Hlavinka wrote: disabling something won't fix it, also I don't think this is that bad that it requires extra patch to turn it off by default and diverge from upstream It shouldn't require a patch, just a config setting. That's what kde- settings is for. (But I also think the default should be changed upstream. This is really not what the notification system was designed for.) Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote: 3. keep a history of the notifications 4. max. number of notifications at the time 5. click able notifications 6. stackable notifications I think that, at least on KDE, you really want to leave that stuff to the KNotify system, it already does all this stuff well. Only for point 5, you have to set some actions and handle the signals KNotify sends you. In principle, it's also possible to disable notifications of a given class (e.g. the one you'd define and use for the Fedora notifications) in KNotify, but it makes more sense to be able to disable the whole thing, including the fetching, it's no use fetching data just to have the resulting notifications eaten by KNotify at the user's request, that's why I didn't include your point 1 in the above list. Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Friday, August 20, 2010 10:46:43 pm Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote: Hi all,, Hi! before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list about a work around to deliver the important notifications to the fedora desktop (whatever the desktop is). after some discussion, we started with some guide lines putted them on the wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system Reading this - I'm not sure all Fedora notifications should go through system notification system. Why? I understand it for urgent/priority notification like Close your desktop, nuclear war out there (or just a security update combined with some steps how to fix it). But I hope it should work for a lot of things like Fedora elections etc. - this should for example go to your calendar, some tips how to use Fedora (just a RSS feed like Plasma widget?) etc. Jaroslav Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check gives feedbacks about it. you can reach it through gitweb: http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo: git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, you should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some notifications. -- Jaroslav Řezník jrez...@redhat.com Software Engineer - Base Operating Systems Brno Office: +420 532 294 275 Mobile: +420 602 797 774 Red Hat, Inc. http://cz.redhat.com/ -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Reading this - I'm not sure all Fedora notifications should go through system notification system. Why? I understand it for urgent/priority notification like Close your desktop, nuclear war out there (or just a security update combined with some steps how to fix it). But I hope it should work for a lot of things like Fedora elections etc. - this should for example go to your calendar, some tips how to use Fedora (just a RSS feed like Plasma widget?) etc. That essentially already exists [0], so just point your existing widgets at that. I personally think that shoving things of this nature in users' faces is not the job of an operating system. [0] http://planet.fedoraproject.org/atom.xml -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
2010/8/24 Garrett Holmstrom gho...@fedoraproject.org Jaroslav Reznik wrote: Reading this - I'm not sure all Fedora notifications should go through system notification system. Why? I understand it for urgent/priority notification like Close your desktop, nuclear war out there (or just a security update combined with some steps how to fix it). But I hope it should work for a lot of things like Fedora elections etc. - this should for example go to your calendar, some tips how to use Fedora (just a RSS feed like Plasma widget?) etc. That essentially already exists [0], so just point your existing widgets at that. I personally think that shoving things of this nature in users' faces is not the job of an operating system. [0] http://planet.fedoraproject.org/atom.xml -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel @Jaroslav: The idea is to have a way to communicate Fedora with the user and viceversa... If Fedora has another Important Bug like the Update One in Fedora 13 Hermes will tell the user inmediatly and it will say the user how to fix it. The idea is to have not only a notification system, but also a way to keep the user in touch with Fedora. I think that if there's already a plasma widget for a RSS Feed Parser (Or a screenlet in case of gnome) we can start working from there... I'll also would like to offer the user a search bar in hermes that uses fedora's database to give search results to the user, so when someone using fedora wants to know a HowTo instead of using Google, they'll have the option of Fedora answering them @Garret: Many things are not the job of an operating system already... The idea is to transform Fedora in more that just software... Let's transform it into a intelligent enviroment concerned about it's users and powered by it's community... -- -Manuel Escudero- Linux User #509052 @GWave: jmlev...@googlewave.com @Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog) PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Mon, Aug 23, 2010 at 11:19 PM, Jon Masters jonat...@jonmasters.orgwrote: On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 11:54 -0400, Genes MailLists wrote: Whatever we do please make it an option NOT to have any window splat on the screen anywhere - let it stay in the system tray and not interfere with my work. It gets worse. I frequently come back to a desktop on which my girlfriend is logged in, switch users, and there are a load of popup notifications on the suspended session. Or the other way around. At this point, I generally uninstall software (including update software - I have a nice and growing list of exclude entries in my yum config) that annoys me with popups that I can't permanently disable. Jon. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel that was one of the issues i wants opinions about i. in fact, i would like to create a small config application that allows the user to manage when to check when to announce the notifications. i would like to know your opinions about this application so i can create the one size fits all notifications system. -- Regards,, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad @meGenius -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
Michal Hlavinka wrote: disagree, have you seen your notifications after leaving your computer alone for several hours with IM client connected (with whatever status)? You'll get tons of User XY has changed status to: blah blah Well, IMHO Kopete shouldn't spam notifications for this type of non- exceptional event at all. Is this enabled by default? If so, maybe we should disable it by default in kde-settings? Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
Kevin Fenzi wrote: I'm not sure a notification applet by itself is going to be the best answer here... as people may be busy or not see the notice and a few seconds later it goes away and they miss it. That's why the notification should not time out unless/until the user clicks it away! In KDE, the old-style notifications just stay on the screen until clicked away, the new-style Plasma notifications (which are the default) retract (after some timeout) to an (i) button in the systray, which will only move to the hidden part of the systray if the notifications in it are clicked away by the user. Perhaps something that puts itself in the system tray and lets them click on it at their leisure? Well, see above, the notification system should do that. :-p Kevin Kofler -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Monday, August 23, 2010 08:19:13 Kevin Kofler wrote: Kevin Fenzi wrote: I'm not sure a notification applet by itself is going to be the best answer here... as people may be busy or not see the notice and a few seconds later it goes away and they miss it. That's why the notification should not time out unless/until the user clicks it away! disagree, have you seen your notifications after leaving your computer alone for several hours with IM client connected (with whatever status)? You'll get tons of User XY has changed status to: blah blah or even when you have opened 2+ chat windows (so there are some without focus), you'll get tons of 'User XY is typing' and 'User XY send new message: Blah blah' https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=244589 https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=244931 In KDE, the old-style notifications just stay on the screen until clicked away, the new-style Plasma notifications (which are the default) retract (after some timeout) to an (i) button in the systray, which will only move to the hidden part of the systray if the notifications in it are clicked away by the user. does not work for all usecases, sometimes it's pain in the ass -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Sat, 2010-08-21 at 00:46 +0400, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote: Hi all,, before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list about a work around to deliver the important notifications to the fedora desktop (whatever the desktop is). after some discussion, we started with some guide lines putted them on the wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check gives feedbacks about it. you can reach it through gitweb: http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo: git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, you should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some notifications. Why isn't this idea merged into PackageKit and the rest of the update infrastructure, which should take care of important notifications to users? Or were you expecting other types of notifications? -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On 08/23/2010 02:19 AM, Kevin Kofler wrote: A lowly user view here about popups .. Whatever we do please make it an option NOT to have any window splat on the screen anywhere - let it stay in the system tray and not interfere with my work. All the popup notifications are annoying and detract from the main computer use - and none of them is so important they warrnet immediate attenion. They always obscure something even if it only makes me wait a few moments (firefox download notif is a great example of how NOT to do it - it sits on top of my workspace chooser and forces me to use keyboard shortcut or wait) - or even worse - those that steal focus are beyond ennoying Let the notif be like email - let the users read it when its convenient for them ... Thank you. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 11:54 -0400, Genes MailLists wrote: Whatever we do please make it an option NOT to have any window splat on the screen anywhere - let it stay in the system tray and not interfere with my work. It gets worse. I frequently come back to a desktop on which my girlfriend is logged in, switch users, and there are a load of popup notifications on the suspended session. Or the other way around. At this point, I generally uninstall software (including update software - I have a nice and growing list of exclude entries in my yum config) that annoys me with popups that I can't permanently disable. Jon. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
2010/8/23 Adam Williamson awill...@redhat.com On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 11:03 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: Why isn't this idea merged into PackageKit and the rest of the update infrastructure, which should take care of important notifications to users? Or were you expecting other types of notifications? The motivation for this system was that when we managed to break PackageKit's notification system, we couldn't use the PK notification system to tell people to install the update to fix the PK notification system. =) (I suppose if we have two mechanisms, we'd have to try really hard to break both of them at once. But I'm not really sure if a generic mechanism for us to spam the user is a great idea.) -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel We're Losing here: a) Yes. My principal underground propouse with this idea was creating a Notification System that might be useful for all distros. That's the why I suggested the Name Hermes for the project b) Let's test it first in Fedora and see how it goes, my idea was having a notification system that let the user Choose between what kind of news they wanna recieve in some part of the instalation process (trough anaconda) so if they want the notifier ON they would have that option during the install and they will be able to choose between feeds. By example, if I wanna recieve news about bugs, Everytime there's a problem like the update bug in Fedora 13 my notifier will pop out from the tray and will inform that to me as packagekit does when there's a update available and some seconds later it dissapears but I can still read that by clicking in the information button of KDE at the end of my panel. By other hand, if one user wants to recieve all the news from all the fedora planet's blogs, obviously that user is going to recieve tons and tons of notifications... In few words, my idea (Hermes) was focused in building a Feed Parser customizable by the user that can be turned on/off trough anaconda the first time the user installs... For more details I invite you to read the full thread about hermes, wich was born in the ambassadors list, here's a digest just to call it something: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-August/015238.html (That's the first message and the thread continous to the last message when mahmoud told me we're switching to the devel list) Once you're awared about everything, I think it's going to be easier start joining ideas for the goal :) -- -Manuel Escudero- Linux User #509052 @GWave: jmlev...@googlewave.com @Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog) PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On 08/23/2010 01:54 PM, Manuel Escudero wrote: b) Let's test it first in Fedora and see how it goes, my idea was having a notification system that let the user Choose between what kind of news they wanna recieve in some part of the instalation process (trough anaconda) so if they want the notifier ON they would have that option during the install and they will be able to choose between feeds. snip In few words, my idea (Hermes) was focused in building a Feed Parser customizable by the user that can be turned on/off trough anaconda the first time the user installs... Just a minor point, but that should probably be firstboot rather than anaconda. After all, during most of the anaconda part of the install, it doesn't even know whether the installing person wants to install Hermes or not yet, and the rest of it after that is usually mostly non-interactive package installation. -- J. Randall Owens | http://www.ghiapet.net/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 13:14 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: On Mon, 2010-08-23 at 11:03 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote: Why isn't this idea merged into PackageKit and the rest of the update infrastructure, which should take care of important notifications to users? Or were you expecting other types of notifications? The motivation for this system was that when we managed to break PackageKit's notification system, we couldn't use the PK notification system to tell people to install the update to fix the PK notification system. =) (I suppose if we have two mechanisms, we'd have to try really hard to break both of them at once. But I'm not really sure if a generic mechanism for us to spam the user is a great idea.) Right. So the problem is to not actually break PackageKit's notification system, not to add blue tack and scotch tape on top of it. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On 08/24/2010 03:55 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote: Right. So the problem is to not actually break PackageKit's notification system, not to add blue tack and scotch tape on top of it. The proposed solution is not just for package update issues but for general announcements that are of importance to end users. A simple solution like reading a rss feed and showing some notifications on the desktop has a much less chance of breaking rather than PackageKit which has already been shown to be complex enough to have problems now and then. Although we can wish for perfect software, reality is different. Rahul -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 3:10 PM, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad abduljawad.mahm...@gmail.com wrote: can you forget that there's a link for googlewave discussion in that page?? in fact, i don't care where the discussion is being done. however, if there's anybody who have a googlewave account it would be nice to talk with him (btw, check the wiki page history to know who added that link). i was talking about a Fedora Notifications System, not a googlewave discussion. after a half a day, i didn't get any feedbacks. again, if you have any idea to improve the application please post it, if you found anything to improve how the program works please post it. -- Regards,, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad @meGenius hey people,, without help i'll not be able to continue. please test the application on non-KDE desktops, think for improvements give feedbacks. -- Regards,, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad @meGenius -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 10:19:53PM +0400, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote: without help i'll not be able to continue. please test the application on non-KDE desktops, think for improvements give feedbacks. Maybe you get more feedback if you make it a F15 feature: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy Also you might get more feedback from potential users, e.g. if you ask on the fedora user list or in the fedora forum. Another way might be to finalize it so that it can be packaged and installed. Then people can install it and use it. I am not part of the target audience of the application, therefore I cannot tell you much about it. But please do not rely on a global writeable file. Regards Till pgpAG9AinuCZZ.pgp Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
1) I was the one who put a google wave link in the wiki, I tought it might be a good way of comunication because anyone with a Gmail account can acess to a wave and use it. If someone do not have a Gmail account he/she simply can use the IRC, can contact anyone that's helping via their wiki's and also can use this mailing list. I do not see any problem there. You might not see a problem but there are people here who have an irrational fear of Google, yet use stuff that could be considered more evil. -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
2010/8/22 Till Maas opensou...@till.name On Sun, Aug 22, 2010 at 10:19:53PM +0400, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote: without help i'll not be able to continue. please test the application on non-KDE desktops, think for improvements give feedbacks. Maybe you get more feedback if you make it a F15 feature: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy Also you might get more feedback from potential users, e.g. if you ask on the fedora user list or in the fedora forum. Another way might be to finalize it so that it can be packaged and installed. Then people can install it and use it. I am not part of the target audience of the application, therefore I cannot tell you much about it. But please do not rely on a global writeable file. Regards Till -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel 1) I was the one who put a google wave link in the wiki, I tought it might be a good way of comunication because anyone with a Gmail account can acess to a wave and use it. If someone do not have a Gmail account he/she simply can use the IRC, can contact anyone that's helping via their wiki's and also can use this mailing list. I do not see any problem there. 2) I think the final goal of this is to have an app that could be packaged and used in fedora 15 or a future release as till said, but we're just starting... let time be time :) I'm here for anything you need. P.S. I wrote an article for the Fedora-LATAM magazine about this project. Maybe with that we can broadcast wider and get some more help. The magazine is going to be released on september 5th. -- -Manuel Escudero- Linux User #509052 @GWave: jmlev...@googlewave.com @Blogger: http://www.blogxenode.tk/ (Xenode Systems Blog) PGP/GnuPG: DAE3 82E9 D68E 7AE4 ED31 1F8F 4AF4 D00C 50E7 ABC6 -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Sat, 21 Aug 2010 00:46:43 +0400 Mahmoud Abdul Jawad abduljawad.mahm...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all,, before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list about a work around to deliver the important notifications to the fedora desktop (whatever the desktop is). after some discussion, we started with some guide lines putted them on the wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check gives feedbacks about it. you can reach it through gitweb: http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo: git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, you should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some notifications. It doesn't seem to output anything here: ke...@ohm ~/git/fns (git)-[master] % python fns.py [] Might include a README file as to what it needed and what output you expect? I'm not sure a notification applet by itself is going to be the best answer here... as people may be busy or not see the notice and a few seconds later it goes away and they miss it. Perhaps something that puts itself in the system tray and lets them click on it at their leisure? kevin signature.asc Description: PGP signature -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Sat, Aug 21, 2010 at 1:54 AM, Rahul Sundaram methe...@gmail.com wrote: You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave. This is problematic for two reasons: a) Google Wave is dead b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a) Rahul -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel can you forget that there's a link for googlewave discussion in that page?? in fact, i don't care where the discussion is being done. however, if there's anybody who have a googlewave account it would be nice to talk with him (btw, check the wiki page history to know who added that link). i was talking about a Fedora Notifications System, not a googlewave discussion. after a half a day, i didn't get any feedbacks. again, if you have any idea to improve the application please post it, if you found anything to improve how the program works please post it. -- Regards,, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad @meGenius -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On 08/21/2010 02:16 AM, Mahmoud Abdul Jawad wrote: Hi all,, before two weeks, a discussion started in ambassadors mailing-list about a work around to deliver the important notifications to the fedora desktop (whatever the desktop is). after some discussion, we started with some guide lines putted them on the wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_notifications_system Continuing, I created an early prototype i want people to check gives feedbacks about it. you can reach it through gitweb: http://fedorapeople.org/gitweb?p=megenius/public_git/fns.git;a=summary or, you can grab your own clone from the git repo: git://fedorapeople.org/megenius/fns.git keep in mind that last_check file should be writeable by the world, you should change its value to an earlier date, so you can see some notifications. You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave. This is problematic for two reasons: a) Google Wave is dead b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a) Rahul -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave. This is problematic for two reasons: a) Google Wave is dead b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a) Rahul a) you're a troll b) you're a troll -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 8/20/10 3:20 PM, Brandon Lozza wrote: You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave. This is problematic for two reasons: a) Google Wave is dead b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a) Rahul a) you're a troll b) you're a troll He's not actually a troll, and that was not very excellent. Google Wave has indeed been shut down. http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/update-on-google-wave.html - -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkxvAQ0ACgkQ4v2HLvE71NVEEgCeKG95tboCuiirSmMSViyd7eTZ LnkAnRCBw43Fj8zduMGUQ4R/0eEYS9cj =gWKI -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 03:26:24PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote: On 8/20/10 3:20 PM, Brandon Lozza wrote: You are requesting people participate in discussions via Google Wave. This is problematic for two reasons: a) Google Wave is dead b) Noone wants to use Google Wave. See a) Rahul a) you're a troll b) you're a troll He's not actually a troll, and that was not very excellent. Google Wave has indeed been shut down. The link on the wiki page is still working and http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/08/update-on-google-wave.html it should until the end of the year: | We don’t plan to continue developing Wave as a standalone product, but we will ^^^ | maintain the site at least through the end of the year and extend the technology ^^ | for use in other Google projects. Nevertheless, imho it should not be used to develop infrastructure for Fedora, because people involved in Fedora might not want to use it, because it is not FOSS. Regards Till -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
Re: Fedora Notifications System.
On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Till Maas opensou...@till.name wrote: Nevertheless, imho it should not be used to develop infrastructure for Fedora, because people involved in Fedora might not want to use it, because it is not FOSS. The less-than-clear-future roadmap for Wave as a service brings home exactly the reason why relying on external services has additional risk. I would hate to ask people to start relying on an external service as an official offering and watch the service shutter with no way to reimplement an internal replacement implementation of the service as a fallback. -jef -- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
