Re: Modularity Improvements Objective

2020-07-24 Thread Kevin Fenzi 
On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:16:16AM -0400, Neal Gompa wrote:
> 
> Unfortunately, MBS is maintained by a different team: the team that
> maintains Koji. I am unsure about what they're planning to do, but I
> hope they're going to do *something*.

To add history here, MBS was written by and maintained by a different
team until early this year, when it was handed off to the koji team. 

Last I heard they were still trying to get up to speed on the codebase,
etc. It's not easy to take a codebase someone else has written and
maintained and take it over. ;( 

I'm of course not speaking for them, and hopefully they will chime in
here with more info...

kevin


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Re: Modularity Improvements Objective

2020-07-24 Thread Ben Cotton 
On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:17 AM Neal Gompa  wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, MBS is maintained by a different team: the team that
> maintains Koji. I am unsure about what they're planning to do, but I
> hope they're going to do *something*.
>
With my Council hat on, I'd like to see that team represented in the
Objective if their involvement is going to be critical to the success
of Modularity.



-- 
Ben Cotton
He / Him / His
Senior Program Manager, Fedora & CentOS Stream
Red Hat
TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis
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Re: Modularity Improvements Objective

2020-07-24 Thread Neal Gompa 
On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 11:10 AM Mat Booth  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 13:26, Petr Pisar  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 01:44:07PM +0200, Daniel Mach wrote:
> > > There's a Modularity Improvements Objective draft available[1].
> > >
> > > The Objective summarizes the work that is in progress already as well as
> > > highlights our plans for Fedora 34.
> > >
> > > We're planning to fix the current modularity in Fedora 33 and 34.
> > > We may look into alternatives or bigger design changes in Fedora 35 and
> > > later.
> > >
> > > You can find more details in the Objective document[1].
> > >
> > > - Daniel
> > >
> > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Modularity_Improvements_2020
> >
> > I hope that you find resources to properly maintain MBS. Currently (last two
> > weeks) it cannot build the modules
> > .
> >
> > -- Petr
>
> I opened this ticket more than two months ago. :-(
>
> What's *worse* is that before I filed that infra ticket I filed this
> ticket [1] at the MBS upstream project and that got *absolutely* no
> response. Complete silence. In fact *no* ticket reported there haven't
> seen any activity in months. Not exactly confidence inspiring for the
> future of the project.
>
> [1] https://pagure.io/fm-orchestrator/issue/1640
>
> I've tried *so* hard to get on board with modularity but I think I'm
> done with modules now in Fedora.
>
> In the early days the people who maintained MBS were super helpful and
> worked hard to fix the bugs I found in it, but now it feels like those
> days are gone and still it's just hurdle after hurdle. All I want is
> an easy life, and I thought modules were that, but it's impossible to
> get anything done in a timely manner, builds have required so much
> babysitting, the MBS requiring (already scarce) releng resources to
> intervene periodically Honestly, it's been just exhausting and
> demoralising how many man-hours have gone to waste. So I've pulled all
> my packages back into mainline Fedora since that seems to be the path
> of least resistance even though I will once again have to maintain
> multiple branches of my whole stack of packages.
>
> Interesting experiment, maybe, but if there's going to be no
> commitment to pay the on-going cost of infra maintenance and fix the
> design-flaws or whatever serious problem is currently holding back
> MBS, then I have to end the experiment for my own sanity at least.
>

Unfortunately, MBS is maintained by a different team: the team that
maintains Koji. I am unsure about what they're planning to do, but I
hope they're going to do *something*.


-- 
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Re: Modularity Improvements Objective

2020-07-24 Thread Mat Booth 
On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 16:10, Mat Booth  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 13:26, Petr Pisar  wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 01:44:07PM +0200, Daniel Mach wrote:
> > > There's a Modularity Improvements Objective draft available[1].
> > >
> > > The Objective summarizes the work that is in progress already as well as
> > > highlights our plans for Fedora 34.
> > >
> > > We're planning to fix the current modularity in Fedora 33 and 34.
> > > We may look into alternatives or bigger design changes in Fedora 35 and
> > > later.
> > >
> > > You can find more details in the Objective document[1].
> > >
> > > - Daniel
> > >
> > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Modularity_Improvements_2020
> >
> > I hope that you find resources to properly maintain MBS. Currently (last two
> > weeks) it cannot build the modules
> > .
> >
> > -- Petr
>
> I opened this ticket more than two months ago. :-(
>

Err, more than one month ago sorry. Apologies if that mischaracterised
the situation.
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Re: Modularity Improvements Objective

2020-07-24 Thread Mat Booth 
On Fri, 24 Jul 2020 at 13:26, Petr Pisar  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 01:44:07PM +0200, Daniel Mach wrote:
> > There's a Modularity Improvements Objective draft available[1].
> >
> > The Objective summarizes the work that is in progress already as well as
> > highlights our plans for Fedora 34.
> >
> > We're planning to fix the current modularity in Fedora 33 and 34.
> > We may look into alternatives or bigger design changes in Fedora 35 and
> > later.
> >
> > You can find more details in the Objective document[1].
> >
> > - Daniel
> >
> > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Modularity_Improvements_2020
>
> I hope that you find resources to properly maintain MBS. Currently (last two
> weeks) it cannot build the modules
> .
>
> -- Petr

I opened this ticket more than two months ago. :-(

What's *worse* is that before I filed that infra ticket I filed this
ticket [1] at the MBS upstream project and that got *absolutely* no
response. Complete silence. In fact *no* ticket reported there haven't
seen any activity in months. Not exactly confidence inspiring for the
future of the project.

[1] https://pagure.io/fm-orchestrator/issue/1640

I've tried *so* hard to get on board with modularity but I think I'm
done with modules now in Fedora.

In the early days the people who maintained MBS were super helpful and
worked hard to fix the bugs I found in it, but now it feels like those
days are gone and still it's just hurdle after hurdle. All I want is
an easy life, and I thought modules were that, but it's impossible to
get anything done in a timely manner, builds have required so much
babysitting, the MBS requiring (already scarce) releng resources to
intervene periodically Honestly, it's been just exhausting and
demoralising how many man-hours have gone to waste. So I've pulled all
my packages back into mainline Fedora since that seems to be the path
of least resistance even though I will once again have to maintain
multiple branches of my whole stack of packages.

Interesting experiment, maybe, but if there's going to be no
commitment to pay the on-going cost of infra maintenance and fix the
design-flaws or whatever serious problem is currently holding back
MBS, then I have to end the experiment for my own sanity at least.

mbooth

-- 
Mat Booth
http://fedoraproject.org/get-fedora
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Re: Modularity Improvements Objective

2020-07-24 Thread Vít Ondruch 

Dne 24. 07. 20 v 14:25 Petr Pisar napsal(a):
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 01:44:07PM +0200, Daniel Mach wrote:
>> There's a Modularity Improvements Objective draft available[1].
>>
>> The Objective summarizes the work that is in progress already as well as
>> highlights our plans for Fedora 34.
>>
>> We're planning to fix the current modularity in Fedora 33 and 34.
>> We may look into alternatives or bigger design changes in Fedora 35 and
>> later.
>>
>> You can find more details in the Objective document[1].
>>
>> - Daniel
>>
>> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Modularity_Improvements_2020
> I hope that you find resources to properly maintain MBS.


+1

This document seems to focus on "DNF" side of thing, while completely
missing the infrastructure side. E.g. MBS, dist-git, mass rebuilds, etc.


Vít


>  Currently (last two
> weeks) it cannot build the modules
> .
>
> -- Petr
>
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Re: Modularity Improvements Objective

2020-07-24 Thread Petr Pisar 
On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 01:44:07PM +0200, Daniel Mach wrote:
> There's a Modularity Improvements Objective draft available[1].
> 
> The Objective summarizes the work that is in progress already as well as
> highlights our plans for Fedora 34.
> 
> We're planning to fix the current modularity in Fedora 33 and 34.
> We may look into alternatives or bigger design changes in Fedora 35 and
> later.
> 
> You can find more details in the Objective document[1].
> 
> - Daniel
> 
> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Modularity_Improvements_2020

I hope that you find resources to properly maintain MBS. Currently (last two
weeks) it cannot build the modules
.

-- Petr


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Re: Modularity Improvements Objective

2020-07-24 Thread Neal Gompa 
On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 7:44 AM Daniel Mach  wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
> There's a Modularity Improvements Objective draft available[1].
>
> The Objective summarizes the work that is in progress already as well as
> highlights our plans for Fedora 34.
>
> We're planning to fix the current modularity in Fedora 33 and 34.
> We may look into alternatives or bigger design changes in Fedora 35 and
> later.
>
> You can find more details in the Objective document[1].
>
> - Daniel
>
>
> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Objectives/Modularity_Improvements_2020

This looks pretty good. I'm excited to see these improvements as they come!


-- 
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