Re: PostgreSQL 13 - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-08-10 Thread Bruno Wolff III

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 15:16:22 -0400,
 Ben Cotton  wrote:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PostgreSQL_13

== Summary ==
Update of PostgreSQL (`postgresql` and `libpq` components) in Fedora
from version 12 to version 13 in the non-modular (main) builds.


They are going to release 13beta3 on Thursday, so we aren't going to see 
a 13 release until very close to Fedora 33's release.

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Re: PostgreSQL 13 - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-07-15 Thread Honza Horak

On 7/8/20 12:24 PM, Miro Hrončok wrote:


When we updated from PostgreSQL 11 to PostgreSQL 12 in Fedora 32, there 
was no targeted rebuild of the dependent packages and a dozen of 
packages failed to install. We were firefighting this between beta and 
final in:


https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1811800

I would very much like to see a targeted rebuild of dependent packages 
in a side tag in the scope (who does it? when?) and a contingency 
mechanism that reverts to PostgreSQL 12 if many packages cannot build.


+1 for better plan for rebuilding depended packages, although not all 
packages might necessarily be prepared for v13 early enough upstream -- 
for that reason I'd like to also see a list of depended packages that we 
consider crucial (postgis, pgpool, ...), and rest that would not block 
the postgresql update if they fail to build or install.


Honza
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Re: PostgreSQL 13 - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-07-15 Thread Miro Hrončok

On 15. 07. 20 9:03, Petr Pisar wrote:

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 08:09:22PM +0200, Fabio Valentini wrote:

On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 9:17 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:

== Contingency Plan ==

Modules will provide the functional version of PostgreSQL 12,
available to all users.


As Miro said - this is not a contingency plan.
We can't just ship a broken version of postgresql by default.


Default streams are not allowed in Fedora. Thus whatever content is shipped as
a module, it won't affect users by default. I cannot see a problem in shipping
a broken PostgreSQL in a module, since it's always an explicit user's choice
to enable, and install it. I understand the proposed contingency plan as
providing the broken server as an experimental stream.


The problem is not with shipping broken PostgreSQL in a module, but shipping 
broken PostgreSQL as non-modular default and having a contingency that says: 
"use modules".


--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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Re: PostgreSQL 13 - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-07-15 Thread Petr Pisar
On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 08:09:22PM +0200, Fabio Valentini wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 9:17 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
> > == Contingency Plan ==
> >
> > Modules will provide the functional version of PostgreSQL 12,
> > available to all users.
> 
> As Miro said - this is not a contingency plan.
> We can't just ship a broken version of postgresql by default.
> 
Default streams are not allowed in Fedora. Thus whatever content is shipped as
a module, it won't affect users by default. I cannot see a problem in shipping
a broken PostgreSQL in a module, since it's always an explicit user's choice
to enable, and install it. I understand the proposed contingency plan as
providing the broken server as an experimental stream.

-- Petr


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Re: PostgreSQL 13 - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-07-14 Thread Fabio Valentini
On Tue, Jul 7, 2020 at 9:17 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
> == Upgrade/compatibility impact ==
> The PostgreSQL client library (libpq component) is compatible, so
> there shouldn't be any issues, but rebuild of the depended components
> is better to be sure. There is a
> [https://copr.fedorainfracloud.org/coprs/panovotn/postgresql-13beta2/
> COPR build] available for testing.

What does "is compatible but rebuild of dependencies is better to be
sure" mean here?
Is there an ABI / SONAME involved in the libpq update?

> Server plugins might require a newer version update, because they
> sometimes have explicit server requirements. PostgreSQL maintainer
> will help fixing/rebuilding any issues in the plugins.

I'd rather see an organized rebuild of dependent packages, preferably
in a koji side tag.
During the fedora 32 development cycle, this didn't happen at all and
postgresql plugins needed to be "rescued" shortly before the fedora 32
GA.

> == Dependencies ==
>
> There are some packages (mostly server plugins), that build on top of
> PostgreSQL. Since the separation of PostgreSQL client library (libpq
> component), only packages that build server plugins should use
> postgresql package in BuildRequires, others should use libpq. In both
> the cases, rebuild should be done to make sure all potential binary
> incompatibilities are handled.

Do you expect binary incompatibilities between libpq 12 and 13? I
would hope that not to be the case if there's not an SONAME bump ...
but if there *is* an ABI change, a targeted rebuild of those
dependencies should happen.

> == Contingency Plan ==
>
> Modules will provide the functional version of PostgreSQL 12,
> available to all users.

As Miro said - this is not a contingency plan.
We can't just ship a broken version of postgresql by default.

> == Release Notes ==
>
> Release notes for PostgreSQL 13 release:
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/13/index.html
>
> Overall overview of the changes and improvements:
> https://www.postgresql.org/docs/13/release-13.html

It looks like the final release of PostgreSQL 13 will happen not long
before the fedora 33 release date (sometime in "Q3 2020" according to
upstream).

I would suggest to wait with the PostgreSQL 13 update until the final
release, and then do the necessary builds and rebuilds of dependent
packages in a side tag, and check the results. If they're bad, hold
off on the PostgreSQL 13 update until fedora 34 (or fix broken
dependencies). If the results are good, merge the side tag and ship
PostgreSQL 13 with fedora 33 (preferably before the beta release).
Everything else is asking for trouble (particularly looking back at
the corresponding f32 Change).

Fabio
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Re: PostgreSQL 13 - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-07-08 Thread Bruno Wolff III

On Tue, Jul 07, 2020 at 15:16:22 -0400,
 Ben Cotton  wrote:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/PostgreSQL_13

== Summary ==
Update of PostgreSQL (`postgresql` and `libpq` components) in Fedora
from version 12 to version 13 in the non-modular (main) builds.


While I like to have the latest postgresql available for my use, 
it seems pretty aggressive to try to get postgresql 13 into 
F33. Using the beta versions is a pain because the catalog will often 
change right up to release and you need to dump and reload or run 
a conversion on your data with each update. So this won't be practical 
to put in rawhide until it is released. While the release might 
be done soon, postgresql releases often end up happening in October.

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Re: PostgreSQL 13 - Fedora 33 Self-Contained Change proposal

2020-07-08 Thread Miro Hrončok

On 07. 07. 20 21:16, Ben Cotton wrote:

== Scope ==
* Proposal owners:

**Prepare PostgreSQL 13 as a module for Rawhide and at least one
stable Fedora release (done)
**Prepare PostgreSQL 12 as a module for Rawhide, so there would be a
failover in case of problems
**Build PostgreSQL 13 to Rawhide
**Check software that requires or depends on `postgresql-server` or
`libpq` packages for incompatibilities
**Gather user input on the changes between PostgreSQL 12 and PostgreSQL 13


When we updated from PostgreSQL 11 to PostgreSQL 12 in Fedora 32, there was no 
targeted rebuild of the dependent packages and a dozen of packages failed to 
install. We were firefighting this between beta and final in:


https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1811800

I would very much like to see a targeted rebuild of dependent packages in a side 
tag in the scope (who does it? when?) and a contingency mechanism that reverts 
to PostgreSQL 12 if many packages cannot build.



== Contingency Plan ==

Modules will provide the functional version of PostgreSQL 12,
available to all users.


If the 13 dependent packages don't install, a module with PostgreSQL 12 is 
**not** a contingency plan.


--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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