Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread Markus Larsson


On 30 June 2020 11:10:03 CEST, Hans de Goede  wrote:

>With livecd installs the livecd rootfs simply gets rsync-ed over, so
>anything which is in the livecd will also end up on the real system.
>
>There is a post-install configuration phase, so I guess we could
>disable things which are only brought in when necessary with netboot
>installs in the livecd post-install configuration phase instead of
>dropping them from the livecd.
>
>That same solution would also work for dmraid, so that would be a more
>generic solution in general and as such might be better. What do
>others think?

This sounds like a very reasonable way to do it since the time when diskspace 
was scarce is long gone.
Disabling instead of removing will have the desired effect on boot times while 
not affecting those that actually need the functionality.
I think this would be a good way to go.


>
>Regards,
>
>Hans
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Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-30 Thread Hans de Goede

Hi John,

On 6/30/20 12:58 AM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:

On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:04:48 PM MST Ben Cotton wrote:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkst
ationLiveCD

== Summary ==
The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora variant getfedora.org
advices people to download.
As such most Fedora workstation installs will be done from the livecd. This
means that any package which is part of the livecd will be part of the
default install for most users.

device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install
which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service, which
waits for all device-detection to be done + some extra waiting just to be
sure. This significantly slows down booting on various systems.

Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or
other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the
livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need
this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and
this is a better fit for such installations.

== Owner ==
* Name: [[User:jwrdegoede| Hans de Goede]]
* Email: hdego...@redhat.com

== Detailed Description ==

device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install
which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service. The
other package is dmraid see [[Changes/DisableDmraidOnFirstRun|Disable
dmraid.service on first run]].

Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or
other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the
livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need
this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and
this is a better fit for such installations.


Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups.


Can you give use-case scenarios where multipath would be used and the
workstation livecd would be the preferred installation media (prefered
over say the server netboot iso) ?


A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when configured, and
leave it out otherwise..


As mentioned in the Change page anaconda already keeps track of whether
it needs device-mapper-multipath and will bring it in when anaconda is
in control over which packages to install. But that only happens with
netboot installations.

With livecd installs the livecd rootfs simply gets rsync-ed over, so
anything which is in the livecd will also end up on the real system.

There is a post-install configuration phase, so I guess we could
disable things which are only brought in when necessary with netboot
installs in the livecd post-install configuration phase instead of
dropping them from the livecd.

That same solution would also work for dmraid, so that would be a more
generic solution in general and as such might be better. What do
others think?

Regards,

Hans
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Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Samuel Sieb

On 6/29/20 4:13 PM, John M. Harris Jr wrote:

On Monday, June 29, 2020 4:03:06 PM MST Neal Gompa wrote:

Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups.
A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when
configured, and leave it out otherwise..



Anaconda live install architecture does not support post-installation
package installs based on user requests or configuration selected at
install time. So this would not be possible.


Would it be possible to write a plugin to support that, or does Anaconda live
install just install every package the live image has? If that wouldn't be
trivial, it may be best to just disable it if it's unused, which would leave
the functionality for those who use it, without affecting the boot times of
those who don't use it.


My understanding is that the live install basically copies the live 
install image onto the hard drive as is and then makes a few 
configuration tweaks.

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Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 4:03:06 PM MST Neal Gompa wrote:
> > Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups.
> > A better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when
> > configured, and leave it out otherwise..
> 
> 
> Anaconda live install architecture does not support post-installation
> package installs based on user requests or configuration selected at
> install time. So this would not be possible.

Would it be possible to write a plugin to support that, or does Anaconda live 
install just install every package the live image has? If that wouldn't be 
trivial, it may be best to just disable it if it's unused, which would leave 
the functionality for those who use it, without affecting the boot times of 
those who don't use it.

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr.

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Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Neal Gompa
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 7:00 PM John M. Harris Jr  wrote:
>
> On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:04:48 PM MST Ben Cotton wrote:
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkst
> > ationLiveCD
> >
> > == Summary ==
> > The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora variant getfedora.org
> > advices people to download.
> > As such most Fedora workstation installs will be done from the livecd. This
> > means that any package which is part of the livecd will be part of the
> > default install for most users.
> >
> > device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install
> > which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service, which
> > waits for all device-detection to be done + some extra waiting just to be
> > sure. This significantly slows down booting on various systems.
> >
> > Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or
> > other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the
> > livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need
> > this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and
> > this is a better fit for such installations.
> >
> > == Owner ==
> > * Name: [[User:jwrdegoede| Hans de Goede]]
> > * Email: hdego...@redhat.com
> >
> > == Detailed Description ==
> >
> > device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install
> > which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service. The
> > other package is dmraid see [[Changes/DisableDmraidOnFirstRun|Disable
> > dmraid.service on first run]].
> >
> > Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or
> > other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the
> > livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need
> > this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and
> > this is a better fit for such installations.
>
> Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. A
> better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when configured, and
> leave it out otherwise..

Anaconda live install architecture does not support post-installation
package installs based on user requests or configuration selected at
install time. So this would not be possible.


-- 
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Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread John M. Harris Jr
On Monday, June 29, 2020 1:04:48 PM MST Ben Cotton wrote:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkst
> ationLiveCD
> 
> == Summary ==
> The Fedora workstation livecd is the default Fedora variant getfedora.org
> advices people to download.
> As such most Fedora workstation installs will be done from the livecd. This
> means that any package which is part of the livecd will be part of the
> default install for most users.
> 
> device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install
> which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service, which
> waits for all device-detection to be done + some extra waiting just to be
> sure. This significantly slows down booting on various systems.
> 
> Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or
> other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the
> livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need
> this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and
> this is a better fit for such installations.
> 
> == Owner ==
> * Name: [[User:jwrdegoede| Hans de Goede]]
> * Email: hdego...@redhat.com
> 
> == Detailed Description ==
> 
> device-mapper-multipath is 1 of only 2 packages in the default install
> which still Requires the long obsoleted systemd-udev-settle.service. The
> other package is dmraid see [[Changes/DisableDmraidOnFirstRun|Disable
> dmraid.service on first run]].
> 
> Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or
> other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the
> livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need
> this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and
> this is a better fit for such installations.

Actually, multipath is used outside of datacenters and enterprise setups. A 
better solution would be to use Anaconda to include it when configured, and 
leave it out otherwise..

-- 
John M. Harris, Jr.

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Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Neal Gompa
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 5:15 PM Hans de Goede  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> On 6/29/20 10:29 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
> > On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM Chris Murphy  
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD
> >>>
> >>> Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or 
> >>> other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the 
> >>> livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need 
> >>> this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and 
> >>> this is a better fit for such installations.
> >>>
> >>
> >> +1 to this one as well. Thanks for doing this!
> >>
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Can we remove this from all desktop variants? There's basically no
> > reason for it to be installed on any desktop spin live media.
>
> That sounds reasonable. I can amend the change to
> s/workstation/workstation and desktop live spins/ or some such.
>

That'd be fantastic, thanks!


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Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Hans de Goede

Hi,

On 6/29/20 10:29 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:

On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM Chris Murphy  wrote:


On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:


https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD

Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or other 
enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd is not 
really necessary. For installations which do actually need this 
device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a 
better fit for such installations.



+1 to this one as well. Thanks for doing this!



+1

Can we remove this from all desktop variants? There's basically no
reason for it to be installed on any desktop spin live media.


That sounds reasonable. I can amend the change to
s/workstation/workstation and desktop live spins/ or some such.

Regards,

Hans
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Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Neal Gompa
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 4:20 PM Chris Murphy  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
> >
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD
> >
> > Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or 
> > other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the 
> > livecd is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need 
> > this device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and 
> > this is a better fit for such installations.
> >
>
> +1 to this one as well. Thanks for doing this!
>

+1

Can we remove this from all desktop variants? There's basically no
reason for it to be installed on any desktop spin live media.




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Re: Remove device-mapper-multipath from the Fedora workstation livecd - Fedora 33 System-Wide Change proposal

2020-06-29 Thread Chris Murphy
On Mon, Jun 29, 2020 at 2:05 PM Ben Cotton  wrote:
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/RemoveDeviceMapperMultipathFromWorkstationLiveCD
>
> Multipath support is only necessary for installations in data-centers or 
> other enterprise setups, as such having device-mapper-multipath on the livecd 
> is not really necessary. For installations which do actually need this 
> device-mapper-multipath the server installation iso can be used and this is a 
> better fit for such installations.
>

+1 to this one as well. Thanks for doing this!


-- 
Chris Murphy
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