Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)

2009-02-02 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x

 I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-)

 Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail
 if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do).

 I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD.

Perhaps. The paper abstract mentions both, and seems to say that the
solution is with DNS-SD+new software. There's another paper from the
same authors that talks about saturation in mesh networks.

I'd like to read that paper (anyone got access to IEEE pubs?) . In
fact, I'd like to find that someone has implemented DNS-SD on 802.11s
networks and had a raging success. I want it simple and safe :-)

cheers,


m
-- 
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 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
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Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)

2009-02-02 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x

 I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-)

 Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail
 if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do).

 I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD.

 Perhaps. The paper abstract mentions both, and seems to say that the
 solution is with DNS-SD+new software. There's another paper from the
 same authors that talks about saturation in mesh networks.

 I'd like to read that paper (anyone got access to IEEE pubs?) . In
 fact, I'd like to find that someone has implemented DNS-SD on 802.11s
 networks and had a raging success. I want it simple and safe :-)

802.11s is not simple, nor safe.

Please concentrate on plain 802.11 networks for now.
 --scott

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Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)

2009-02-02 Thread david
 On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Martin Langhoff
 martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 1:17 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x

 I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-)

 Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail
 if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do).

 I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD.

 Perhaps. The paper abstract mentions both, and seems to say that the
 solution is with DNS-SD+new software. There's another paper from the
 same authors that talks about saturation in mesh networks.

 I'd like to read that paper (anyone got access to IEEE pubs?) . In
 fact, I'd like to find that someone has implemented DNS-SD on 802.11s
 networks and had a raging success. I want it simple and safe :-)

nobody else is running 802.11s yet, so you aren't going to find reports of 
people using _anything_ with a raging success on 802.11s

David Lang
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Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)

2009-02-02 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
 My suggestions:  DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/).
 There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use
 existing standard solutions.

 Yep - I want existing standard stuff, but the devil we know seems to
 swamp the spectrum with 802.11s.

 Googling leads to a paper that could be useful. I don't have access -
 but they seem to claim that they can get DNS-SD to _not_ mess the mesh
 up with some new technique requiring new and adventurous patches
 affecting the mesh routing nodes:

 http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x

 I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-)

 Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail
 if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do).

I think you are confusing mDNS with DNS-SD.
 --scott

-- 
 ( http://cscott.net/ )
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Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)

2009-02-02 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 11:13 AM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
 802.11s is not simple, nor safe.

lol. That's right.

Now, you are talking about DNS-SD without mDNS. Spent some good time
reading up on both, and DNS-SD sounds good for what we're trying to
do. Everybody uses them together, however, and all the nice libraries
(avahi and friends) make no distinction between the two.

Maybe I'm looking at the wrong docs - so pointers welcome.

If I'm right, however, we can still write our own simple dns-sd client
glue and a abuse named on the XS.

 Please concentrate on plain 802.11 networks for now.

It's not so black-and-white . Whatever its status right now, 802.11s
is still an important consideration.

cheers,


m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)

2009-02-01 Thread C. Scott Ananian
On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 9:35 PM, Martin Langhoff
martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Martin Langhoff
 martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote:
 So this depends on a simple service-announcement scheme. I'll sidestep
 the how of it, and say:

 In terms of getting a service announcement scheme, I'd be happy to
 work with you guys to find a lightweight svc announcement scheme that
 works for Sugar and for the XS, and that doesn't tie the two together
 too tightly.

 Sugar clients want to interop with preexisting LANs with
 minimal/reasonable effort, and XS LANs want to be friendly to
 non-Sugar clients.

 One odd constraint we have is that we want it to play nice on wireless
 networks, and mesh networks too... and the popular solutions (mdns,
 etc) in this space seem to hog 802.11s badly.

My suggestions:  DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/).
There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use
existing standard solutions.
 --scott

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 ( http://cscott.net/ )
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Re: Service announcement scheme - (Re: [Sugar-devel] A small request.)

2009-02-01 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 6:39 PM, C. Scott Ananian csc...@laptop.org wrote:
 My suggestions:  DNS-SD and libepc (http://live.gnome.org/libepc/).
 There's no need for Sugar-specific solutions here; we just need to use
 existing standard solutions.

Yep - I want existing standard stuff, but the devil we know seems to
swamp the spectrum with 802.11s.

Googling leads to a paper that could be useful. I don't have access -
but they seem to claim that they can get DNS-SD to _not_ mess the mesh
up with some new technique requiring new and adventurous patches
affecting the mesh routing nodes:

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/4489030/4489031/04489571.pdf?temp=x

I don't want adventure. I want something old and safe ;-)

Maybe we can fake this with good old DNS lookups - but those will fail
if the DNS server has a wildcard (like commercial hotspots do).

DNS lookup + http check? Why do the ugliest solutions end up being the
ones that work in the field?

cheers,



m
-- 
 martin.langh...@gmail.com
 mar...@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
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