Re: The XO laptop gets a Windows makeover
It was a very poor experiment and the article had a number of items of misinformation. The author of the article did not take advantage of the fact that she had 2 XOs . She did not boot both in Sugar to observe the collaboration capabilities of Sugar and Activities. If she had then Sugar would have won hands down. Windows is pointless as an educational platform. I have never seen what I would call an educational application on Windows. I have seen rote training applications on Windows. About all Windows is good for is in a school training the next generation of low skilled, low wage support personal for Microsoft with out of date knowledge. Remember education and training are 2 different concepts. Education gives you the ability to reach beyond your base knowledge and to continue to learn, explore and synthesize ideas and concepts. Rote training freezes you in time and makes you inflexible. On Oct 25, 2008, at 11:34 PM, Carlos mauro wrote: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10074298-56.html? part=rsssubj=newstag=2547-1_3-0-20 Was a experiment (informal) with a girl with 8 years old wich used olpc with Sugar an Windows... :) -- Forwarded message -- From: Carlos mauro [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/10/26 Subject: Niños en Prueba Informal Prefieren Sugar q WindowsXp To: kunix [EMAIL PROTECTED], OLPC en castellano para usuarios, docentes, voluntarios y administradores olpc- [EMAIL PROTECTED], OLPC-Peru [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Claudia Colque [EMAIL PROTECTED], AD Luyo [EMAIL PROTECTED], Kri0z [EMAIL PROTECTED], Victor Arturo Simich L�pez [EMAIL PROTECTED], EDUARDO CIEZA DE LEON [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lucia Elisa Loyola Cordova [EMAIL PROTECTED], KETTY JULCA VALDEZ [EMAIL PROTECTED], Natividad Gonzales Cordova [EMAIL PROTECTED], Mica [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10074298-56.html? part=rsssubj=newstag=2547-1_3-0-20 Intersante Espero que me respondan la forma de colocarle el windows Xp a la OLPC para hacer los test de usabilidad de contraste. -- http://unimauro.blogspot.com/ Creemos en el amor de los Seres Humanos Carlos Mauro Cárdenas Fernández 4582877 980525716 -- http://unimauro.blogspot.com/ Creemos en el amor de los Seres Humanos Carlos Mauro Cárdenas Fernández 4582877 980525716 ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: The XO laptop gets a Windows makeover
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was a very poor experiment and the article had a number of items of misinformation. The author of the article did not take advantage of the fact that she had 2 XOs . She did not boot both in Sugar to observe the collaboration capabilities of Sugar and Activities. If she had then Sugar would have won hands down. Sugar isn't helped when people shout down any criticism. Living in denial about the competition just leads to failure. I'm far from a fan of Windows, but it gets many things right. If you think booting both into Sugar would have helped Sugar, then you obviously haven't seen the collaboration capabilities of Windows. Booting both into Windows would allow file sharing. Compared to what Sugar does, file sharing is very reliable. It works with **all** programs, without any developer effort. It's compatible between different software versions, different types of software, and even different OSes. It even eliminates the need to maintain a continuous network connection, which is great for kids without wired networks or reliable electricity. Windows is pointless as an educational platform. I have never seen what I would call an educational application on Windows. I have seen rote training applications on Windows. About all Windows is good for is in a school training the next generation of low skilled, low wage support personal for Microsoft with out of date knowledge. I haven't seen decent educational software for any platform. That includes Sugar and Mac OS. Probably this means that the concept itself is defective. Real tools are superior. I have seen Microsoft Excel used for science, engineering, and statistics. Sugar has nothing comparable, despite at least two usable free spreadsheets being available for Linux. Remember education and training are 2 different concepts. Education gives you the ability to reach beyond your base knowledge and to continue to learn, explore and synthesize ideas and concepts. Rote training freezes you in time and makes you inflexible. You just keep telling yourself that Windows is only for rote training (false) and that rote training is useless (also false) while the world mysteriously ignores you for some reason. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: The XO laptop gets a Windows makeover
Albert, I was not shouting down criticism. I was pointing out the inherent fallacy of the experiment. File sharing is not an active real time collaboration tool by any means. In sugar multiple children can work on the same write document, paint document, etc. at the same time and a copy is saved locally. You are making the fallacy of comparing apples with oranges. As for Windows file sharing I could show you situations in which Windows file sharing fails miserably and contrary to what you state Windows file sharing is not compatible between all operating systems. A few of your statements are so bizarre they don't even deserve a response. In my work life I use multiple OS in a given day and see these compatibility problems first hand. Means of file sharing can be setup fairly easily in Sugar if you want to move raw files around. Currently file sharing is performed through activity sharing. Just because MS Excel is used by some for science, engineering and statistics does not mean it is the correct tool for the job. There are too many serious problems with MS Excel that have never been fixed and have caused serious problems with a number of scientific projects, etc., that relied on MS Excel. I too can use a screw driver to hammer a nail into a wall but does not mean it is the correct tool. I agree with you that there has been a dearth of decent educational software on all platforms. There is a chance to start a fresh with a new platform that is not encumbered with a legacy of poor offerings in that area. Is that not what the stated target for the XO and Sugar is to be an educational tool? Unfortunately from your response ,you have demonstrated you really do not understand the difference between education and rote learning. By the way I did not say rote training was useless. I said it leads to inflexibility. Rote learning is not based on understanding. On Oct 26, 2008, at 4:09 PM, Albert Cahalan wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It was a very poor experiment and the article had a number of items of misinformation. The author of the article did not take advantage of the fact that she had 2 XOs . She did not boot both in Sugar to observe the collaboration capabilities of Sugar and Activities. If she had then Sugar would have won hands down. Sugar isn't helped when people shout down any criticism. Living in denial about the competition just leads to failure. I'm far from a fan of Windows, but it gets many things right. If you think booting both into Sugar would have helped Sugar, then you obviously haven't seen the collaboration capabilities of Windows. Booting both into Windows would allow file sharing. Compared to what Sugar does, file sharing is very reliable. It works with **all** programs, without any developer effort. It's compatible between different software versions, different types of software, and even different OSes. It even eliminates the need to maintain a continuous network connection, which is great for kids without wired networks or reliable electricity. Windows is pointless as an educational platform. I have never seen what I would call an educational application on Windows. I have seen rote training applications on Windows. About all Windows is good for is in a school training the next generation of low skilled, low wage support personal for Microsoft with out of date knowledge. I haven't seen decent educational software for any platform. That includes Sugar and Mac OS. Probably this means that the concept itself is defective. Real tools are superior. I have seen Microsoft Excel used for science, engineering, and statistics. Sugar has nothing comparable, despite at least two usable free spreadsheets being available for Linux. Remember education and training are 2 different concepts. Education gives you the ability to reach beyond your base knowledge and to continue to learn, explore and synthesize ideas and concepts. Rote training freezes you in time and makes you inflexible. You just keep telling yourself that Windows is only for rote training (false) and that rote training is useless (also false) while the world mysteriously ignores you for some reason. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: The XO laptop gets a Windows makeover
Hi Robert, On 27.10.2008 00:57, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Oct 26, 2008, at 4:09 PM, Albert Cahalan wrote: Booting both into Windows would allow file sharing. Compared to what Sugar does, file sharing is very reliable. It works with **all** programs, without any developer effort. It's compatible between different software versions, different types of software, and even different OSes. It even eliminates the need to maintain a continuous network connection, which is great for kids without wired networks or reliable electricity. As for Windows file sharing I could show you situations in which Windows file sharing fails miserably and You conveniently claim that you *could* show situations where file sharing fails miserably, but then you leave out the actual description of any of these situations. I don't doubt they exist, but in general Windows file sharing works really well for a rather large number of users. And I'm fairly confident that sharing (copying/reading/writing) arbitrary files reliably even in the face of intermittent network outages is a quite useful capability to have. contrary to what you state Windows file sharing is not compatible between all operating systems. And here you're refuting a straw man. Nice fallacy. Note how Albert wrote about different OSes and not your all operating systems straw man. A few of your statements are so bizarre they don't even deserve a response. You missed the opportunity to actually point out which statements you consider bizarre. No justification of your statement is given. That allows anyone to invoke that statement on select yet unspecified parts of your e-mail. Means of file sharing can be setup fairly easily in Sugar if you want to move raw files around. Currently file sharing is performed through activity sharing. Does setup fairly easily mean someone has to write a program (activity) to do it? If yes, it's not easy (yet). Will it work with arbitrary binary files? If not, it's just as sensible as people loading a file into MS Word and saving it at some destination instead of simply copying the file over. I have seen that, and while I admire the creativity inherent in that action, it is slower and forces users to look at the contents of the file which may not be desirable. And yes, I'm going to give you an example: If someone shares an image via the paint program (activity) with you and you find the image offensive, your only way to show/share that with the teacher is to look at the image again. Anyway, I am looking forward to your enlightened and detailed response. Regards, Carl-Daniel ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: The XO laptop gets a Windows makeover
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 7:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: File sharing is not an active real time collaboration tool by any means. Right. Active real-time collaboration is nice, and I wish my own editor had it, but I think you're overvaluing it greatly. In sugar multiple children can work on the same write document, paint document, etc. at the same time and a copy is saved locally. Last I heard, this is not true regarding the paint program. It's not true regarding most programs in fact. Peer-to-peer collaborative software is far from trivial to do decently. Means of file sharing can be setup fairly easily in Sugar if you want to move raw files around. Currently file sharing is performed through activity sharing. Right, it could be fixed. There has been recent effort, but Windows is still way ahead in this critical area. Just because MS Excel is used by some for science, engineering and statistics does not mean it is the correct tool for the job. There are too many serious problems with MS Excel that have never been fixed and have caused serious problems with a number of scientific projects, etc., that relied on MS Excel. I too can use a screw driver to hammer a nail into a wall but does not mean it is the correct tool. It often is the correct tool, especially when you consider things like ease-of-use and versatility. Turning your data into pretty graphs in a report is easy with Excel. There is even a built-in programming language, just in case you should feel the urge to use one. You can do your science while becoming familiar with a typical business app. That's an excellent deal. I agree with you that there has been a dearth of decent educational software on all platforms. There is a chance to start a fresh with a new platform that is not encumbered with a legacy of poor offerings in that area. Many have gone down that path, generally resulting in a fresh new legacy of poor offerings. ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
