Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
Anyway to quantify touchpad use and behaivor in F9 builds? I don't know of any way that involves only the laptop or software. Quantifying use and behaviour would require a video camera on both the touchpad and the screen. Or accurate reporting from both people who experience a problem and those who do not. Self selected reporting from community enthusiasts isn't as reliable. It might be possible for testers to tape a small mirror on their XO camera (perhaps 1cm square), so it can see the touchpad. Run a test program in the background that records the video into a circular RAM buffer, and saves a chunk of it whenever it sees the pointer jump. Then go on doing what you usually do on the XO. An engineer can later look at those saved videos to see how many of the pointer jumps happened without a corresponding finger motion. John ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
--- On Tue, 6/14/11, James Cameron qu...@laptop.org wrote: From: James Cameron qu...@laptop.org Subject: Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28] To: Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com Cc: devel@lists.laptop.org Date: Tuesday, June 14, 2011, 6:01 PM On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 12:35:52AM -0700, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: I do not know why you say we certainly seem to have reduced the frequency of the problem overall but here is some numbers to compare. The overall frequency of reports of the problem. Not the frequency on your laptop. But that could also represent a smaller community. Or people just gave up on expecting a fix on this well known and publicized problem and use an external mouse. However, I do not think that is not a big issue if newer builds indeed make it worse. On that matter, I was thinking that the kbdshim debug option could provide touchpad use data and compare it to jumping events. Anyway to quantify touchpad use and behaivor in F9 builds? -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 11:28:54PM -0700, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: Or people just gave up on expecting a fix on this well known and publicized problem and use an external mouse. Yes, that's a possibility too. One child I test with insists on an external mouse, even if I'm offering them an XO-1.5 - which has an entirely different touchpad model that has never shown the symptom. However, I do not think that is not a big issue if newer builds indeed make it worse. I don't see enough data that newer builds make it worse, but data would be useful. I'd like this to be evidence based. How would you capture the data reliably? On that matter, I was thinking that the kbdshim debug option could provide touchpad use data and compare it to jumping events. Ah, you're beyond my knowledge at this point. Anyway to quantify touchpad use and behaivor in F9 builds? I don't know of any way that involves only the laptop or software. Quantifying use and behaviour would require a video camera on both the touchpad and the screen. Or accurate reporting from both people who experience a problem and those who do not. Self selected reporting from community enthusiasts isn't as reliable. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
From: James Cameron qu...@laptop.org Or accurate reporting from both people who experience a problem and those who do not. Self selected reporting from community enthusiasts isn't as reliable. I would certainly agree on that. And is (unfortunately) true that reporting problems is much more frequent than reporting successes. However, you would expect if touchbad behavior was indeed improved some random reports would have appeared, and I honestly have not seen one. Of course this does not mean that got worse either, but that's the so far _indications_ Without accurate measurement on F9 builds will be hard to compare and conclude, so indication maybe the only thing we can have. Best -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 01:48:20AM -0700, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: However, you would expect if touchbad behavior was indeed improved some random reports would have appeared, and I honestly have not seen one. No, I wouldn't have expected that. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 2:28 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com wrote: However, I do not think that is not a big issue if newer builds indeed make it worse. If you think newer builds make it worse, and can help us keeping track of it in detail, yes, we need and want your help. But your testing of a different OS means you have a different stack from what we ship. Can you test with a recent 11.2.0 dev image? Maybe running it from an SD card to preserve your internally-installed OS... cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
The newer builds are close to unusable. That is one of the reason I do not use them. (The other is that the gamepad does not work and it kills the XO-1 as an ebook reader...) On 2011.06.15. 14:09, Martin Langhoff wrote: On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 2:28 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com wrote: However, I do not think that is not a big issue if newer builds indeed make it worse. If you think newer builds make it worse, and can help us keeping track of it in detail, yes, we need and want your help. But your testing of a different OS means you have a different stack from what we ship. Can you test with a recent 11.2.0 dev image? Maybe running it from an SD card to preserve your internally-installed OS... cheers, m ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
--- On Wed, 6/15/11, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: From: Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com Subject: Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28] To: Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com Cc: James Cameron qu...@laptop.org, devel@lists.laptop.org Date: Wednesday, June 15, 2011, 8:09 AM On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 2:28 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com wrote: However, I do not think that is not a big issue if newer builds indeed make it worse. If you think newer builds make it worse, and can help us keeping track of it in detail, yes, we need and want your help. But your testing of a different OS means you have a different stack from what we ship. Can you test with a recent 11.2.0 dev image? Why do you say that? The attachment did have data from virgin os860 and 1.2.0 dev builds (os18-os22). It even indicates if Sugar or Gnome was used at the given 5-7 minutes segment. The puppy data was because I was testing the touchpad power-cycle idea. Could be easily done in official/dev builds too but tried to keep them as pristine as possible. As I mentioned, better testing can be done using kbdshim debug data (assuming they do not affect behavior), but without a way to test in F9 builds the comparison will always be inconclusive and (correctly) labeled subjective. However, if anybody thinks that recording/knowing touchpad spur events pet touchpad transmitted bids could be of any value and triggers another look at the touchpad, I could try it. Maybe running it from an SD card to preserve your internally-installed OS... cheers, m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 9:06 AM, Yioryos Asprobounitis mavrot...@yahoo.com wrote: from what we ship. Can you test with a recent 11.2.0 dev image? Why do you say that? The attachment did have data from virgin os860 and 1.2.0 dev builds (os18-os22). Because I didn't look into the attachment -- oops. I just read your email and understood you were just using puppy linux. thanks, and apologies! m -- martin.langh...@gmail.com mar...@laptop.org -- Software Architect - OLPC - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
yioryos wrote: Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:45:08 +1000 From: James Cameron qu...@laptop.org Subject: Re: XO-1 touchpad once more Well, we certainly seem to have reduced the frequency of the problem overall, even if a few people who never had the problem now have it. ;-) It's the overall frequency that matters. I do not know why you say we certainly seem to have reduced the frequency of the problem overall but here is some numbers to compare. james' statement surprised me a bit, too, since i'm not sure that we have data to back that up. but regardless... I'm not using my XO-1s as much lately, since the XO-1.5 is much more pleasant to use :-) but still managed to gather touchpad events through several hours of use from my 2 XO-1s. One is running os860 while the other different OLPC 11.2.0 development builds. Both are also running Puppy linux from an SDcard. The data record re-calibration events and in most cases CPU load and memory use, in 5 or 7 minutes intervals. When running puppylinux there are also some logs where the touchpad is powered cycled in 5 or 7 minutes intervals during a sudo anti-RSI step that appears to improve touchpad behavior [1]. Unfortunately the data are not processed in any meaningful way but the frequency and the extend of the events is evident. Maybe it i guess i don't see it. just skimming your logs, i'm not having trends jump out at me. but as you say, that's not really fair without having the data plotted in some meaningful way. perhaps someone listening with good data visualization skills could help us out here? paul could be compared with F7/F9 data if available. [1] http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=513017#513017 =- paul fox, p...@laptop.org ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
Re: XO-1 touchpad once more [Devel Digest, Vol 64, Issue 28]
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 12:35:52AM -0700, Yioryos Asprobounitis wrote: I do not know why you say we certainly seem to have reduced the frequency of the problem overall but here is some numbers to compare. The overall frequency of reports of the problem. Not the frequency on your laptop. But that could also represent a smaller community. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel
