[freenet-dev] Kickstarter may actually be possible?
On 16/10/15 19:57, charles wrote: >>> Try to get in crowdfunded anti surveillance projects >>> like CommunityCube: >>> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/communitycubes/communitycube-lets-build-a-fair-internet/description >>> It will establish you further like abovementioned and will result in more >>> new users and developers. >> What's their business model? Social networks and open source projects >> are not allowed on Kickstarter, only profitable businesses. Selling >> boxes doesn't provide a good business reason to fund ongoing >> development. Look at your phone, it's probably beyond security support >> already, they want to sell you a new one... > If Kickstarter doesn't allow open source projects, then I don't > understand how Krita has run several successful campaigns through > them.[1][2][3] They do sell pro versions, but they are not targeted in > the kickstarters or even really mentioned at all. > > -Charles > > [1] > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/krita/krita-open-source-digital-painting-accelerate-deve > [2] > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/krita/krita-free-paint-app-lets-make-it-faster-than-phot > [3] https://krita.org/item/funding-krita/ Hmmm, this is interesting. Possibly they have changed the rules? I guess we may need to dig deeper? https://www.kickstarter.com/rules https://www.kickstarter.com/rules/prohibited http://www.crowdcrux.com/do-software-campaigns-do-well-on-kickstarter/ (This one is old, repeats what I said) If we can in fact use Kickstarter then we still have the problems of a good pitch and goodies for people who give us money (ideally something more than branded merchandise), but it'd be well worth looking into... Is there a more restrictive policy somewhere else on the website? signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Kickstarter
Am Montag, 17. November 2014, 16:38:57 schrieb Michael Grube: > I hate to put it this way, but let's be coldly rational here. Please do not > take this as an offensive question: What can we offer that maidsafe cannot? I’d like to answer that with a quote from http://draketo.de/proj/freenet-funding/ MaidSafe seems to be a decentralized hosting solution with some scarcity built in to give fairness between publishers. It does not provide usage-dependent availability like Freenet and lacks darknet options. Freenet has a decaying store to provide freedom of the press by ensuring that content which users access stays available. MaidSafe gives limited storage which provides hosting for those which support the network. As such it does not equalize publishing among publishers. Due to that MaidSafe competes in the space TAHOE-LAFS and not in the space of Freenet. Like Freenet MaidSafe is free licensed but different from freenet it requires a contributor agreement. That agreement promises that the contributed code will always be available under free licenses. So its company can pull off a proprietarization of new code, but not of contributions. The contributor agreement effectively strips away the copyleft from the contributions but only for the MaidSafe developers. A currency isn’t the right tool for censorship resistant publishing, though bitcoin proponents have a hard time swallowing that argument… Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Kickstarter
On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:48 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On 17/11/14 21:38, Michael Grube wrote: > > I hate to put it this way, but let's be coldly rational here. Please do > not > > take this as an offensive question: What can we offer that maidsafe > cannot? > > Since it will be based on 'safecoins' I'm assuming it will cost money to > > use which is one advantage we have. Anything beside that though? > Precisely for that reason it can cash in on venture capital and the > whole Bitcoin hype engine? > > Beyond that, I don't know, don't have time to dig. Arne's site does > mention it though. > > Blockchains are a crappy thing to put an entire set of technologies on > top > > of, especially since Ghash.io was capable of executing the 51% attack > > earlier this year. > > > > Should we focus on small world vs blockchain? Is this even an issue? > > Curious to know what everyone thinks. > Block chains have some advantages for spam-resistant naming and other > stuff Freenet sucks at. I.e. Freenet needs scarcity for announcement, > All that means is there is an arbitrary associated cost based on the hashrate for communication. This actually places power in the wealthiest parties on the network which is not exactly conducive to free speech, but that is a topic for a different time. > safe KSKs, forums, search. Bitcoin/namecoin is one way to do that. > > However you also need a distributed storage mechanism, which doesn't > have much to do with block chains. > I think maidsafe addresses the storage issue. > > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Kickstarter
On 17/11/14 21:38, Michael Grube wrote: > I hate to put it this way, but let's be coldly rational here. Please do not > take this as an offensive question: What can we offer that maidsafe cannot? > Since it will be based on 'safecoins' I'm assuming it will cost money to > use which is one advantage we have. Anything beside that though? Precisely for that reason it can cash in on venture capital and the whole Bitcoin hype engine? Beyond that, I don't know, don't have time to dig. Arne's site does mention it though. > Blockchains are a crappy thing to put an entire set of technologies on top > of, especially since Ghash.io was capable of executing the 51% attack > earlier this year. > > Should we focus on small world vs blockchain? Is this even an issue? > Curious to know what everyone thinks. Block chains have some advantages for spam-resistant naming and other stuff Freenet sucks at. I.e. Freenet needs scarcity for announcement, safe KSKs, forums, search. Bitcoin/namecoin is one way to do that. However you also need a distributed storage mechanism, which doesn't have much to do with block chains. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Kickstarter
I hate to put it this way, but let's be coldly rational here. Please do not take this as an offensive question: What can we offer that maidsafe cannot? Since it will be based on 'safecoins' I'm assuming it will cost money to use which is one advantage we have. Anything beside that though? Blockchains are a crappy thing to put an entire set of technologies on top of, especially since Ghash.io was capable of executing the 51% attack earlier this year. Should we focus on small world vs blockchain? Is this even an issue? Curious to know what everyone thinks. On Nov 17, 2014 4:27 PM, "Matthew Toseland" wrote: > On 17/11/14 20:46, Michael Grube wrote: > > I know I've not comment or contributed in some time now, but I just have > > some comments on this. > > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Matthew Toseland > wrote: > > > >> On 16/11/14 17:50, Ian wrote: > >>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Matthew Toseland > >> wrote: > On 16/11/14 16:36, Ian Clarke wrote: > > We're in an interesting situation. The world finally appears to > really > > care about the things that Freenet has been about from the very > beginning a > > decade and a half ago (most of the publicity back then viewed Freenet > > through the prism of Napster and copyright infringement). People > >> finally > > care about anonymity, privacy, government monitoring, etc. We should > >> be > > able to capitalize on this but it will take work. > And in the meantime every wannabe clone project gets all the funding, > and we don't, because we're old news. Yeah. > > >>> I don't think it's because we're old news, although I think that's a > >>> perception challenge we need to address. I think it's because we > really > >>> haven't been making much of an effort to market ourselves. In the past > >>> journalists came to us, and I was fairly good at communicating with > them > >> on > >>> the project's behalf, but we can't rely on organic press interest any > >> more, > >>> we need to make an effort to reach out. > >>> > >>> For example, we should be perfect for a kickstarter project, we just > need > >>> to do it, and do it to a high standard (good message, good quality > video, > >>> etc). > >> Is it actually possible to do a Kickstarter-or-one-of-its-competitors > >> project if you are a social network (therefore banned from Kickstarter) > >> with no physical goodies to give to donors and no intention of making a > >> profit? > >> > > Freenet as darknet might technically be referred to as a social network, > > but not in the commonly known sense. > > > > Physical goodies can be a low power freenet node to run, since freenet is > > ideal in 24/7 conditions anyway. > > > > I am worried about competition from maidsafe, who is a business that > claims > > to offer everything freenet does with the ability to farm. We need to > > differentiate from or beat them, IMO. > > > > That's all, thanks. > I think OSS projects are excluded? Kickstarter is really a business > incubator. But I believe IndieGoGo allows more. > > Low power freenet node is something somebody interested should work > on... long run they will be important for darknet. > > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Kickstarter
On 17/11/14 20:46, Michael Grube wrote: > I know I've not comment or contributed in some time now, but I just have > some comments on this. > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > >> On 16/11/14 17:50, Ian wrote: >>> On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Matthew Toseland >> wrote: On 16/11/14 16:36, Ian Clarke wrote: > We're in an interesting situation. The world finally appears to really > care about the things that Freenet has been about from the very beginning a > decade and a half ago (most of the publicity back then viewed Freenet > through the prism of Napster and copyright infringement). People >> finally > care about anonymity, privacy, government monitoring, etc. We should >> be > able to capitalize on this but it will take work. And in the meantime every wannabe clone project gets all the funding, and we don't, because we're old news. Yeah. >>> I don't think it's because we're old news, although I think that's a >>> perception challenge we need to address. I think it's because we really >>> haven't been making much of an effort to market ourselves. In the past >>> journalists came to us, and I was fairly good at communicating with them >> on >>> the project's behalf, but we can't rely on organic press interest any >> more, >>> we need to make an effort to reach out. >>> >>> For example, we should be perfect for a kickstarter project, we just need >>> to do it, and do it to a high standard (good message, good quality video, >>> etc). >> Is it actually possible to do a Kickstarter-or-one-of-its-competitors >> project if you are a social network (therefore banned from Kickstarter) >> with no physical goodies to give to donors and no intention of making a >> profit? >> > Freenet as darknet might technically be referred to as a social network, > but not in the commonly known sense. > > Physical goodies can be a low power freenet node to run, since freenet is > ideal in 24/7 conditions anyway. > > I am worried about competition from maidsafe, who is a business that claims > to offer everything freenet does with the ability to farm. We need to > differentiate from or beat them, IMO. > > That's all, thanks. I think OSS projects are excluded? Kickstarter is really a business incubator. But I believe IndieGoGo allows more. Low power freenet node is something somebody interested should work on... long run they will be important for darknet. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Kickstarter
I know I've not comment or contributed in some time now, but I just have some comments on this. On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On 16/11/14 17:50, Ian wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Matthew Toseland > wrote: > > > >> On 16/11/14 16:36, Ian Clarke wrote: > >>> We're in an interesting situation. The world finally appears to really > >>> care about the things that Freenet has been about from the very > >> beginning a > >>> decade and a half ago (most of the publicity back then viewed Freenet > >>> through the prism of Napster and copyright infringement). People > finally > >>> care about anonymity, privacy, government monitoring, etc. We should > be > >>> able to capitalize on this but it will take work. > > > >> And in the meantime every wannabe clone project gets all the funding, > >> and we don't, because we're old news. Yeah. > >> > > I don't think it's because we're old news, although I think that's a > > perception challenge we need to address. I think it's because we really > > haven't been making much of an effort to market ourselves. In the past > > journalists came to us, and I was fairly good at communicating with them > on > > the project's behalf, but we can't rely on organic press interest any > more, > > we need to make an effort to reach out. > > > > For example, we should be perfect for a kickstarter project, we just need > > to do it, and do it to a high standard (good message, good quality video, > > etc). > Is it actually possible to do a Kickstarter-or-one-of-its-competitors > project if you are a social network (therefore banned from Kickstarter) > with no physical goodies to give to donors and no intention of making a > profit? > Freenet as darknet might technically be referred to as a social network, but not in the commonly known sense. Physical goodies can be a low power freenet node to run, since freenet is ideal in 24/7 conditions anyway. I am worried about competition from maidsafe, who is a business that claims to offer everything freenet does with the ability to farm. We need to differentiate from or beat them, IMO. That's all, thanks. > > I need to do a bit of research before responding to the rest of your > email, > > since I've been out-of-the-loop also (except for various administrative > > tasks). > > > > Ian. > > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Kickstarter
On 16/11/14 17:50, Ian wrote: > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > >> On 16/11/14 16:36, Ian Clarke wrote: >>> We're in an interesting situation. The world finally appears to really >>> care about the things that Freenet has been about from the very >> beginning a >>> decade and a half ago (most of the publicity back then viewed Freenet >>> through the prism of Napster and copyright infringement). People finally >>> care about anonymity, privacy, government monitoring, etc. We should be >>> able to capitalize on this but it will take work. > >> And in the meantime every wannabe clone project gets all the funding, >> and we don't, because we're old news. Yeah. >> > I don't think it's because we're old news, although I think that's a > perception challenge we need to address. I think it's because we really > haven't been making much of an effort to market ourselves. In the past > journalists came to us, and I was fairly good at communicating with them on > the project's behalf, but we can't rely on organic press interest any more, > we need to make an effort to reach out. > > For example, we should be perfect for a kickstarter project, we just need > to do it, and do it to a high standard (good message, good quality video, > etc). Is it actually possible to do a Kickstarter-or-one-of-its-competitors project if you are a social network (therefore banned from Kickstarter) with no physical goodies to give to donors and no intention of making a profit? > I need to do a bit of research before responding to the rest of your email, > since I've been out-of-the-loop also (except for various administrative > tasks). > > Ian. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
