On 06/02/2016 12:45 PM, Kagamin wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 16:02:18 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
Which gave us the list of places inside Phobos to fix, only about two
hours of work, and proved that the version() method was viable (and
REALLY easy to implement).
Yes, it was a research PR t
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 16:02:18 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
Which gave us the list of places inside Phobos to fix, only
about two hours of work, and proved that the version() method
was viable (and REALLY easy to implement).
Yes, it was a research PR that was never meant to be an
implement
On 06/02/2016 12:14 PM, Kagamin wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:06:20 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Autodecode doesn't need to be removed from phobos completely, it only
needs to be more bearable, like it is in the foreach statement. E.g.
byDchar will stay, initial idea is to actually pu
On 06/02/2016 11:58 AM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Thursday, June 02, 2016 09:06:44 Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
Meanwhile, I go to conferences. Train and consult at large companies.
Dozens every year, cumulatively thousands of people. I talk about D and
ask peo
On 06/02/2016 11:40 AM, Seb wrote:
How about we start calling dfix and dscanner "official", move them over
to the Dlang github namespace and ship them with every release?
From my email dated 2015/05/31 entitled "Make dformat and dfix part of
the dmd distribution":
Hi Brian,
I was very ple
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:06:20 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Autodecode doesn't need to be removed from phobos completely,
it only
needs to be more bearable, like it is in the foreach
statement. E.g.
byDchar will stay, initial idea is to actually put it to more
intensive
usage in phobo
On 06/02/2016 11:38 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:02:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Yah, this is a bummer and one of the larger issues of our
community: there's too much talking about doing things and too
little doing things.
We wrote a PR to implement the first s
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:50:54 UTC, Kagamin wrote:
It outright deprecated popFront - that's not the first step in
the migration.
Which gave us the list of places inside Phobos to fix, only about
two hours of work, and proved that the version() method was
viable (and REALLY easy to imple
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:38:46 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
We wrote a PR to implement the first step in the autodecode
deprecation cycle.
It outright deprecated popFront - that's not the first step in
the migration.
On Thursday, June 02, 2016 09:06:44 Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> Meanwhile, I go to conferences. Train and consult at large companies.
> Dozens every year, cumulatively thousands of people. I talk about D and
> ask people what it would take for them to use the language. Invariabl
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:59:13 UTC, Seb wrote:
Instead of investing a lot of time in the auto-decoding
bike-sheding discussion, how about helping out? Take five
minutes to read through this upcoming PR [2, 3] of areas of D
usage. Anyone can help - no coding skills required ;-)
As the fi
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:38:46 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:02:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Yah, this is a bummer and one of the larger issues of our
community: there's too much talking about doing things and too
little doing things.
We wrote a PR to im
I don't see it the same way. Yes, I agree my opinion is not
representative. I'd also say I'm glad I can do something about
this.
Moved Andrei's post
(http://forum.dlang.org/post/nipb14$ldb$1...@digitalmars.com) to a
new thread.
[...]
Meanwhile, I go to conferences. Train and consult at lar
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:02:13 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Yah, this is a bummer and one of the larger issues of our
community: there's too much talking about doing things and too
little doing things.
We wrote a PR to implement the first step in the autodecode
deprecation cycle. Gra
On 06/02/2016 11:26 AM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d wrote:
Unless we're outright getting rid of string, char[], wstring, etc., RCStr
clearly doesn't solve the auto-decoding problem.
It does if you use it. If you don't, it doesn't. -- Andrei
On 06/02/2016 11:14 AM, deadalnix wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:03:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
You start to sound like a car salesman.
I assume that means overselling or false advertising. Where do either
of these happen? -- Andrei
For SDC for instance, autodecode is a problem
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 12:51:18 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
[...]
I opened some bugs about that in the past, but got shut down. It
is especially problematic since some ranges (like filter) are
calling front several time when iterating.
On 06/02/2016 11:03 AM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 02:44:21PM +, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 14:29:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
It's one thing to make a mistake. Everyone does that sometimes,
and nobody is born knowin
On 06/02/2016 10:48 AM, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote:
On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 09:06:44AM -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
[...]
ZombineDev, I've been at the top level in the C++ community for many
many years, even after I wanted to exit :o). I'm familiar with how the
co
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 15:03:34 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
You start to sound like a car salesman.
I assume that means overselling or false advertising. Where do
either of these happen? -- Andrei
For SDC for instance, autodecode is a problem (in fact, it is the
very reason I aband
On Thursday, June 02, 2016 10:29:28 Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> The real ticket out of this is RCStr. It solves a major problem in the
> language (compulsive GC) and also a minor occasional annoyance
> (autodecoding).
Unless we're outright getting rid of string, char[], wstring
On 06/02/2016 02:51 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
For example, generate.popFrontN does nothing. generate.drop does
nothing. And of course, calling front multiple times does not yield the
same answer, unless you provide a lambda that does the same thing every
time (a useless case).
That's just
On Thursday, June 02, 2016 08:51:18 Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> I'd say violating the expectations of what popFront and front do is more
> egregious than a particular use case, no matter how valid that case is.
> I'd like to fix this bug, but I see there were quite a few major
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 12:51:18 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
1. front gets you the current element of the range. Calling
front multiple times without calling popFront should get you
the same value.
2. popFront moves you to the next element of the range if it
exists.
Agreed. To quote
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 14:32:38 UTC, Chris wrote:
For fun, I've written a search function that alternates between
the beginning and the end of a string. I'm basically using
Andrei's search algorithm for this. It is, of course only useful,
if `needle` is expected to be either towards the
On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 02:44:21PM +, deadalnix via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 14:29:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
> > > It's one thing to make a mistake. Everyone does that sometimes,
> > > and nobody is born knowing complex issues. What matters is if
> > > you're
On 06/02/2016 10:53 AM, Kagamin wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:06:44 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
This is what's happening here. We worked ourselves to a foam because
the creator of the language started a thread entitled "The Case
Against Autodecode", whilst fully understanding there i
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 12:51:18 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
I have always treated ranges with this expectation:
So have I. It's troubling that's not how some of them work.
Atila
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:11:10 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
This means that a string is a range. What is it a range of? If
you want to make it a range of code units, I think you will
lose that battle.
After the first migration step joiner will return a decoded dchar
range just like
On 06/02/2016 10:44 AM, deadalnix wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 14:29:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
It's one thing to make a mistake. Everyone does that sometimes, and
nobody is born knowing complex issues. What matters is if you're willing
to learn new information and correct your err
On 06/02/2016 10:14 AM, jmh530 wrote:
However, the case against autodecoding is clearly popular. At a minimum,
it has resulted in a significant amount of time dedicated to forum
discussion and has made you metaphorically angry at Walter. Resources
spent grumbling about it could be better spent el
On Thu, Jun 02, 2016 at 09:06:44AM -0400, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
[...]
> ZombineDev, I've been at the top level in the C++ community for many
> many years, even after I wanted to exit :o). I'm familiar with how the
> committee that steers C++ works, perspective that is unique
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:06:44 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
This is what's happening here. We worked ourselves to a foam
because the creator of the language started a thread entitled
"The Case Against Autodecode", whilst fully understanding there
is no way to actually eliminate autodec
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:34:18 UTC, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 04:42:49 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Andrei is in favor of fixing Phobos so it does not depend on
autodecode.
Putting the autodecode functions on a compiler switch (with
-version) is the most straightforw
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 14:29:28 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
It's one thing to make a mistake. Everyone does that
sometimes, and
nobody is born knowing complex issues. What matters is if
you're willing
to learn new information and correct your errors.
The real ticket out of this is RC
On 06/02/2016 09:34 AM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 04:42:49 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Andrei is in favor of fixing Phobos so it does not depend on autodecode.
Putting the autodecode functions on a compiler switch (with -version) is
the most straightforward way to achieve
On 06/02/2016 09:55 AM, cym13 wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:06:44 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
Your claim was obliterated, and now you continue arguing it by
adjusting term definitions on the fly, while at the same time
awesomely claiming to choose the high road by not wasting time to
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:55:28 UTC, cym13 wrote:
If you are to stay with autodecoding (and I hope you won't) then
please, *please*, at least make it decode to graphemes so that
it decodes to something that actually have some kind of meaning
of its own.
That would cause just as much - if n
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:06:44 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Look at reddit and hackernews, too - admittedly other
self-selected communities. Language debates often spring about.
How often is the point being made that D is wanting because of
its string support? Nada.
I've been lurki
Instead of investing a lot of time in the auto-decoding
bike-sheding discussion, how about helping out? Take five minutes
to read through this upcoming PR [2, 3] of areas of D usage.
Anyone can help - no coding skills required ;-)
As the first five minutes matter, I thought it would be nice if
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:06:44 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Your claim was obliterated, and now you continue arguing it by
adjusting term definitions on the fly, while at the same time
awesomely claiming to choose the high road by not wasting time
to argue it. I should remember the tri
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 13:11:10 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer
wrote:
On 6/1/16 6:31 AM, Marc Schütz wrote:
I believe everything that does only concatenation will work
correctly.
That's why joiner() is one of those algorithms that should
accept
strings directly without going through any decodin
On 02.06.2016 15:09, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
You can change string literals to be something other than arrays, and
then we have a path forward. But as long as char[] is not an array, we
have lost the battle of sanity.
Yeah, it's a miracle the language stays glued eh.
...
It's not a langu
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 04:42:49 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
Andrei is in favor of fixing Phobos so it does not depend on
autodecode.
Putting the autodecode functions on a compiler switch (with
-version) is the most straightforward way to achieve that.
We'd have a transition period where p
On 06/02/2016 09:25 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
And yes, I'm about to kill this thread from my newsreader, since it's
wasting too much of my time...
A good idea for all of us. Could you also please look on my post on our
meetup page? Thx! -- Andrei
On 02.06.2016 15:06, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 06/02/2016 06:42 AM, ZombineDev wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 22:24:49 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 06/01/2016 06:09 PM, ZombineDev wrote:
Regardless of how different people may call it, it's not what this
thread is about.
Yes, d
On 6/2/16 9:09 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 06/02/2016 09:05 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On 6/1/16 6:24 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 06/01/2016 06:09 PM, ZombineDev wrote:
Deprecating front, popFront and empty for narrow
strings is what we are talking about here.
That will no
On 01.06.2016 23:48, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 06/01/2016 05:30 PM, Jack Stouffer wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 19:52:01 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
foreach (dchar x; a) {}
The latter two do autodecoding, not coversion as the rest of the
language.
This seems to be a miscommunica
On 02.06.2016 12:38, deadalnix wrote:
This, deep down, point at the fact that conversion from/to char types
are ill defined.
One should be able to convert from char to byte/ubyte but not the other
way around.
One should be able to convert from byte to short but not from char to
wchar.
Once y
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 10:56:36 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
On 04/23/2016 04:17 PM, Seb wrote:
This project is about adding non-uniform random generators to
mir and hopefully eventually to Phobos.
I just happen to need a gaussian random number generator right
now. Is there already some WIP
On 6/1/16 6:31 AM, Marc Schütz wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 01:13:17 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On 5/31/16 4:38 PM, Timon Gehr wrote:
What about e.g. joiner?
Compiler error. Better than what it does now.
I believe everything that does only concatenation will work correctly.
Tha
On 06/02/2016 09:05 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On 6/1/16 6:24 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 06/01/2016 06:09 PM, ZombineDev wrote:
Deprecating front, popFront and empty for narrow
strings is what we are talking about here.
That will not happen. Walter and I consider the cost excess
On 06/02/2016 06:42 AM, ZombineDev wrote:
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 22:24:49 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 06/01/2016 06:09 PM, ZombineDev wrote:
Regardless of how different people may call it, it's not what this
thread is about.
Yes, definitely - but then again we can't after each in
On 6/1/16 6:24 PM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote:
On 06/01/2016 06:09 PM, ZombineDev wrote:
Deprecating front, popFront and empty for narrow
strings is what we are talking about here.
That will not happen. Walter and I consider the cost excessive and the
benefit too small.
If this doesn't happ
I have always treated ranges with this expectation:
1. front gets you the current element of the range. Calling front
multiple times without calling popFront should get you the same value.
2. popFront moves you to the next element of the range if it exists.
However, there are some ranges which
On 6/1/16 8:37 PM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote:
On 6/1/16 8:49 AM, Joseph Rushton Wakeling wrote:
The `Generator` range is an eager violator of this requirement:
https://github.com/dlang/phobos/blob/ca292ff78cd825f642eb58d586e2723ba14ae448/std/range/package.d#L3075-L3080
although I'd agre
...
B) This strange feature you need to know about is here because
we chose comparability with old code, over building the best
language possible. The language managed to continue growing
(but not as fast as we hoped) only because of the other good
features. You should use this feature and he
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 14:29:58 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
On 06/01/2016 06:25 AM, Marc Schütz wrote:
On Tuesday, 31 May 2016 at 21:01:17 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
The point is to operate on representation-independent entities
(Unicode code points) instead of low-level
represe
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 10:56:36 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:
On 04/23/2016 04:17 PM, Seb wrote:
This project is about adding non-uniform random generators to
mir and hopefully eventually to Phobos.
I just happen to need a gaussian random number generator right
now. Is there already some WIP
On 04/23/2016 04:17 PM, Seb wrote:
> This project is about adding non-uniform random generators to mir and
> hopefully eventually to Phobos.
I just happen to need a gaussian random number generator right now.
Is there already some WIP code, or would you have an intermediate
recommendation?
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 22:24:49 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
On 06/01/2016 06:09 PM, ZombineDev wrote:
Regardless of how different people may call it, it's not what
this
thread is about.
Yes, definitely - but then again we can't after each
invalidated claim to go "yeah well but that
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 19:52:01 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
On 06/01/2016 03:07 PM, ZombineDev wrote:
This is not autodecoding. There is nothing auto-magic w.r.t.
strings in
plain foreach.
I understand where you're coming from, but it actually is
autodecoding. Consider:
byte[] a;
On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 22:24:49 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu
wrote:
Deprecating front, popFront and empty for narrow
strings is what we are talking about here.
That will not happen. Walter and I consider the cost excessive
and the benefit too small.
This has little to do with
explicit str
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 07:21:28 UTC, Joakim wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 06:53:49 UTC, poliklosio wrote:
(...)
It has been noted many times that forum users are a small part
of the D userbase, likely the ones who are the most interested
in evolving the language and thus biased tow
On Wednesday, June 01, 2016 11:30:02 Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d
wrote:
> On 06/01/2016 11:24 AM, Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> > It seems more like RCString is an optimization for certain types of
> > programs than what you'd want to use by default.
>
> You'll always want
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 06:53:49 UTC, poliklosio wrote:
On Thursday, 2 June 2016 at 00:14:30 UTC, Seb wrote:
Just FYI after a short period of ten hours we got the
following 45 responses:
Yes, with fire! (hobby user)
77% (35)
Yeah remove that special behavior (professional user)
35
On Wednesday, June 01, 2016 21:42:49 Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d wrote:
> On 6/1/2016 8:51 PM, Adam D. Ruppe wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 1 June 2016 at 02:36:15 UTC, Walter Bright wrote:
> >> PRs please!
> >
> > https://github.com/dlang/phobos/pull/4384
> >
> > You'll notice it is closed.
> >
> >
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