Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-24 01:36, Peter Williams wrote: Believe me, the give the strings an extra id idea has been tried (many times) and it failed badly (compared to gettext's model). It's been working in Ruby on Rails for years. -- /Jacob Carlborg

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 23/05/13 16:36, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-23 01:51, Peter Williams wrote: That is indeed the case. I avoid all things Apple as my experience has been that they seem to think they still own a device after they've sold it to me. I can understand that. But if we are to create somethin

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 23/05/13 17:29, Diggory wrote: What's great about it is you can develop your program with having to mess about with keys or anything to do with i18n, just remember to call "gettext()" and when your done it's already ready for translations to be added. Most other schemes require you to create

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 23/05/13 17:19, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-23 08:27, Peter Williams wrote: An example of how I would envisage gettext being used in D is: writefln(gettext("%s: unknown variable at line %s"), filename, linenumber); It is a common practice, to define a macro (or equivalent) _(arg) as a

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-23 14:56, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: enum string unknownVar = "%s: unknown variable at line %s"; ... gettext(unknownVar) ... That's kind of the same thing as using the key approach that Diggory didn't like. -- /Jacob Carlborg

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 5/23/13 4:31 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-23 10:29, Jacob Carlborg wrote: Say I have: gettext("%s: unknown variable at line %s") Then I want to change the text to: gettext("%s: not yet known variable at line %s") I have to find all places where this text is used in the code. Then

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 5/23/13 4:29 AM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-23 09:29, Diggory wrote: If you need to change the text then you also need to update the translations, or at least check that they're still correct, so I see that as a benefit rather than a problem... Say I have: gettext("%s: unknown varia

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-23 10:45, Diggory wrote: Given a change that is purely aesthetic like that you could just change the english translation instead... Also "find and replace" takes a few seconds... If you are suggesting to use a named constant as a key, this also suffers from the exact problem you are p

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Thursday, 23 May 2013 at 08:31:46 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-23 10:29, Jacob Carlborg wrote: Say I have: gettext("%s: unknown variable at line %s") Then I want to change the text to: gettext("%s: not yet known variable at line %s") I have to find all places where this text is

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-23 10:29, Jacob Carlborg wrote: Say I have: gettext("%s: unknown variable at line %s") Then I want to change the text to: gettext("%s: not yet known variable at line %s") I have to find all places where this text is used in the code. Then I also need to updated the translations. I

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-23 09:29, Diggory wrote: If you need to change the text then you also need to update the translations, or at least check that they're still correct, so I see that as a benefit rather than a problem... Say I have: gettext("%s: unknown variable at line %s") Then I want to change the

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Thursday, 23 May 2013 at 06:27:28 UTC, Peter Williams wrote: On 23/05/13 11:23, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: I've never actually done i18n so I might be full of crap, but I think a nice way to do it would be something along these lines: 1) (optionally) all printing functions actually take a differ

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Thursday, 23 May 2013 at 07:19:46 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-23 08:27, Peter Williams wrote: An example of how I would envisage gettext being used in D is: writefln(gettext("%s: unknown variable at line %s"), filename, linenumber); It is a common practice, to define a macro (o

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-23 08:27, Peter Williams wrote: An example of how I would envisage gettext being used in D is: writefln(gettext("%s: unknown variable at line %s"), filename, linenumber); It is a common practice, to define a macro (or equivalent) _(arg) as an alias for gettext(arg) (and N_(arg) for

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-23 01:51, Peter Williams wrote: That is indeed the case. I avoid all things Apple as my experience has been that they seem to think they still own a device after they've sold it to me. I can understand that. But if we are to create something like this thread suggest I would say th

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-23 03:16, Juan Manuel Cabo wrote: I've been using DWT for some time and it seems stable for me. Thanks to Jacob Carlborg for maintaining it! :) Thank you to everyone contributing with pull requests. -- /Jacob Carlborg

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 23/05/13 11:23, Adam D. Ruppe wrote: I've never actually done i18n so I might be full of crap, but I think a nice way to do it would be something along these lines: 1) (optionally) all printing functions actually take a different type than just plain string, forcing you to use the translation

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Thu, 23 May 2013 09:51:17 +1000 Peter Williams wrote: > On 22/05/13 16:44, Jacob Carlborg wrote: > > On 2013-05-22 07:00, Peter Williams wrote: > > > >> My experience (with PyGTK) is that GUI building tools actually > >> make the task harder not easier (once you become familiar with the > >> A

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

I've never actually done i18n so I might be full of crap, but I think a nice way to do it would be something along these lines: 1) (optionally) all printing functions actually take a different type than just plain string, forcing you to use the translation function 2) the function looks some

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 07:47:56 UTC, eles wrote: On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 06:41:24 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-20 07:25, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: Here we go again, yet another massive thread about GUI toolkits :) Anyway, the thread is already started, I think the alternativ

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

I've been looking at GtkD and it seems very complete and up to date in terms of exposing the Gtk+ API and wrapping it, but there's still a lot of Dification that could be done which would make it much closer to an ideal gui toolkit: - Compile time implementation of GtkBuilder - Instead of conn

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 22/05/13 07:27, Diggory wrote: On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 18:59:08 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: I would expect that the system needs to be designed from the ground up with support for something like internationalization. There are probably other features were this is true as well. Of course,

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 22/05/13 16:44, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-22 07:00, Peter Williams wrote: My experience (with PyGTK) is that GUI building tools actually make the task harder not easier (once you become familiar with the API). Of course, things may have changed since I last used such a tool but I dou

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 11:40:15 -0700, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-20 20:01, Adam Wilson wrote: So I've been around D a while pushing for native D UI toolkit. And here are a few trends I've seen in the community. BTW, how do you intend the controls to behave: * Emulate the behavior of ea

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 11:38:31 -0700, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-21 19:51, Adam Wilson wrote: Yes, I know it's a bit of stretch but it's the same basic idea as XAML, graphically created XML that is serialized to XML or binary. :-) Then markup has nothing to do with a GUI toolkit being n

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-21 14:31, Diggory wrote: I had support for custom dialogs, drawing etc. and file dialogs were built in so it was possible to create your own color picker, etc. in a very few lines of code. The way it was designed, custom field formatters were trivial. The point is we don't need to hav

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Wednesday, 22 May 2013 at 06:44:48 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-22 07:00, Peter Williams wrote: My experience (with PyGTK) is that GUI building tools actually make the task harder not easier (once you become familiar with the API). Of course, things may have changed since I last u

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 21/05/13 16:35, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:21:28 -0700 Brad Roberts wrote: On 5/20/13 9:49 PM, Peter Williams wrote: Yes, if D aspires to be a systems programming language it can't keep relying on wrappers around C/C++ libraries (especially C++). In the long term, it s

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-22 07:00, Peter Williams wrote: My experience (with PyGTK) is that GUI building tools actually make the task harder not easier (once you become familiar with the API). Of course, things may have changed since I last used such a tool but I doubt it. Then you obviously haven't used I

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 21/05/13 17:24, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-21 05:32, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: As for my opinionated ideals (doesn't affect the overall design much): * no XML (yaml maybe, but XML just isn't user-friendly) Do people actual "code" in the markup. Isn't that just for a GUI building t

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-21 12:31:53 +, "Diggory" said: On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 12:12:12 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-20 22:40, Diggory wrote: UI toolkits are a lot of work but they're not as unreasonably big as everyone seems to be suggesting... I've written a couple myself in a procedural

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

Oops, sorry for the empty message. I think the best idea is to stop arguing and just do something. I recommend trying a minimalist project (at most Clutter sized) instead of something massive like Qt that's likely never going to see the light of day. Implement the basics, create a few example

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 11:33:19 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote: On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 11:06:44 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 5/21/13, Adam Wilson wrote: Well, it comes down to how you want to render. My preferred solution woulbd be a rendering thread running all the time doing nothing but the

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 17:38:15 -0400 Nick Sabalausky wrote: > On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:44:30 +0200 > Jacob Carlborg wrote: > > > On 2013-05-21 21:47, Nick Sabalausky wrote: > > > > > What do you mean by "click/scroll through"? > > > > I can scroll in a window while having another window selecte

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:44:30 +0200 Jacob Carlborg wrote: > On 2013-05-21 21:47, Nick Sabalausky wrote: > > > What do you mean by "click/scroll through"? > > I can scroll in a window while having another window selected. I > think I read you had a tool/application for that on Windows. > Oh,

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 18:59:08 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: I would expect that the system needs to be designed from the ground up with support for something like internationalization. There are probably other features were this is true as well. Of course, although I think internationalizat

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-21 21:47, Nick Sabalausky wrote: What do you mean by "click/scroll through"? I can scroll in a window while having another window selected. I think I read you had a tool/application for that on Windows. -- /Jacob Carlborg

i18n (was: Ideal D GUI Toolkit)

On Tue, 21 May 2013 14:12:11 +0200 Jacob Carlborg wrote: > > I think you underestimate what's needed and the controls people want > to have. Did you have date picker, color picker, support for > internationalization, field formatters and so on. > Speaking of, what is the current state-of-the-a

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 20:55:11 +0200 Jacob Carlborg wrote: > > I mean how the controls will behave, not the style. I.e. Windows > doesn't support click/scroll through while most other systems do. > What do you mean by "click/scroll through"?

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-21 20:48, Adam Wilson wrote: Controls will be completely "lookless". So a control is simply a class in code with no associated styling whatsoever. That means that "look" is defined entirely with styles. This presents us with the flexibility to automatically load the correct look and b

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 14:31:53 +0200 "Diggory" wrote: > > The point is we don't need to have > a date picker and color picker and every other control built in, > at least not initially. All we need is an easily extensible > framework with the simple controls, and then we can add more > complica

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-21 20:44, Adam Wilson wrote: Indeed, it does not, and I hope I didn't try to sound like I was saying it did. Markup is just one way to express the UI. DSL's are another. Personally I prefer the DSL approach, as it is usually more compact. I have no problem with markup or DSL, as lon

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 13:33:18 +0200 "Kiith-Sa" wrote: > > My (subjective) preferences: > > * Human-readable markup, not just through a tool (a tool can be > built later). YAML and JSON work well here. > *cough* SDL *wink, wink, nudge, nudge* ;) > * Look

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 20:01, Adam Wilson wrote: So I've been around D a while pushing for native D UI toolkit. And here are a few trends I've seen in the community. BTW, how do you intend the controls to behave: * Emulate the behavior of each platform * Picking one platform and emulate that across al

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 10:50:40 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: > On Tue, 21 May 2013 00:16:15 -0700, Jacob Carlborg > wrote: > > > > Surely we want to have both. I'm thinking when you're developing > > you don't want to recompile you're application if you can avoid it > > just when the GUI is changed.

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-21 19:51, Adam Wilson wrote: Yes, I know it's a bit of stretch but it's the same basic idea as XAML, graphically created XML that is serialized to XML or binary. :-) Then markup has nothing to do with a GUI toolkit being native or not. -- /Jacob Carlborg

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-21 19:50, Adam Wilson wrote: Well, that depends, if it comes down to a trade off between program execution speed vs. compile speed, i'll pick program execution speed. Right now, I know of no UI toolkit that lets you redesign without recompiling, so i'd say that should be a secondary p

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 00:01:36 -0700, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-20 21:41, Adam Wilson wrote: HTML is markup. XAML is markup. QML is markup. XUL is markup. iOS is markup. Android is markup. Realistically, the age of OS native toolkits has passed, markup is the future. *shrug* For me it's

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 00:24:30 -0700, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-21 05:32, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: As for my opinionated ideals (doesn't affect the overall design much): * no XML (yaml maybe, but XML just isn't user-friendly) Do people actual "code" in the markup. Isn't that just f

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 00:16:15 -0700, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-20 22:58, Adam Wilson wrote: Depends on the system, in WPF the XAML is encoded into a binary form of XML and then the objects are deserialized at runtime. Note that given D's CTFE I would NOT choose this path for any D UI to

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 12:12:12 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-20 22:40, Diggory wrote: UI toolkits are a lot of work but they're not as unreasonably big as everyone seems to be suggesting... I've written a couple myself in a procedural language using Direct3D to draw everything. Had

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 00:04:03 UTC, Kiith-Sa wrote: H3r3tic had a more advanced GUI framework (still not native), hybrid, which IMO has a far better API than any framework I've seen, but I never found the source, only documentation somewhere on his (unmaintained) site. https://bitbucket.

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 22:40, Diggory wrote: UI toolkits are a lot of work but they're not as unreasonably big as everyone seems to be suggesting... I've written a couple myself in a procedural language using Direct3D to draw everything. Had all the standard controls, various layout options, even a syntax

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 11:06:44 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 5/21/13, Adam Wilson wrote: Well, it comes down to how you want to render. My preferred solution woulbd be a rendering thread running all the time doing nothing but the GPU leg-work Why a GPU? Aren't most GUIs static? And ar

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 5/21/13, Jacob Carlborg wrote: > On 2013-05-20 23:47, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: > >> Just to mention this, we already have native libraries (and written in >> D without wrapping C++ libs) such as DGUI, DFL, DWT. I hardly find >> them successful, they get the occasional pull request, but otherwise

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 5/21/13, Adam Wilson wrote: > Well, it comes down to how you want to render. My preferred solution > woulbd be a rendering thread running all the time doing nothing but the > GPU leg-work Why a GPU? Aren't most GUIs static? And aren't there issues with GPUs where feature X isn't supported on a

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

"Jonathan M Davis" wrote in message news:mailman.1428.1369071743.4724.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... > On Tuesday, May 21, 2013 03:33:01 Daniel Murphy wrote: >> I don't know much about Qt's source, but automatic conversion to D, like >> we >> are doing for the compiler, might be worth looking in

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 09:29:36 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: I hardly believe it has anything to do with being a (native) GUI library. Most D projects look like this. I'd say it is about having a persistent user. If project floats around as an abstract one without any frequent practical app

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 23:47, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: Just to mention this, we already have native libraries (and written in D without wrapping C++ libs) such as DGUI, DFL, DWT. I hardly find them successful, they get the occasional pull request, but otherwise they seem to lack any sort of team effort or

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

"eles" wrote in message news:ksirfxsiejlweyhom...@forum.dlang.org... On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 06:41:24 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-20 07:25, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: Here we go again, yet another massive thread about GUI toolkits :) Anyway, the thread is already started, I thin

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 06:39:39 UTC, Peter Williams wrote: On 21/05/13 16:21, Brad Roberts wrote: On 5/20/13 9:49 PM, Peter Williams wrote: Yes, if D aspires to be a systems programming language it can't keep relying on wrappers around C/C++ libraries (especially C++). In the long term

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Monday, 20 May 2013 at 22:48:01 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:35:57 -0700, Flamaros wrote: On Monday, 20 May 2013 at 21:47:56 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: 1) A "core" for a GUI library written in D that people can start hacking on (meaning you can create windows, and draw

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 06:41:24 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2013-05-20 07:25, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: Here we go again, yet another massive thread about GUI toolkits :) Anyway, the thread is already started, I think the alternatives are: 1) pick up a major well-known GUI library,

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-21 05:32, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: As for my opinionated ideals (doesn't affect the overall design much): * no XML (yaml maybe, but XML just isn't user-friendly) Do people actual "code" in the markup. Isn't that just for a GUI building tool. -- /Jacob Carlborg

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 22:58, Adam Wilson wrote: Depends on the system, in WPF the XAML is encoded into a binary form of XML and then the objects are deserialized at runtime. Note that given D's CTFE I would NOT choose this path for any D UI toolkit. D is perfect for a system where you use markup to decl

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 20:01, Adam Wilson wrote: A UI toolkit in D would be a fantastic showcase for demonstrating just how powerful D is. But make no mistake, it will not be easy getting it done. I agree. It's a massive amount of work. Before we can even think if starting a project like this there ar

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 22:36, Timothee Cour wrote: The following will take much less time and can achieve good, native results quickly: Design a user-code facing clean api using idiomatic D (front end code): windows, widgets, callbacks via delegates, etc. Design a glue layer to talk to different backends

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 21:41, Adam Wilson wrote: HTML is markup. XAML is markup. QML is markup. XUL is markup. iOS is markup. Android is markup. Realistically, the age of OS native toolkits has passed, markup is the future. *shrug* For me it's a practical thing, markup is extensible, OS widgets are not.

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 07:25, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: I've been looking into trying to fix QtD, but it seems writing a binding to a C++ library is a bit complicated. I've read on the forums that a native D GUI toolkit is the most desirable long-term, so I'd like to start that discussion. Here we go

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 21:52, Nick Sabalausky wrote: WPF/XAML is first-party, therefore it's native by definition regardless of whether or not it internally hands off to the older UI code. Saying WPF isn't native is like saying that Quartz isn't native just because it doesn't use...uhh, whatever the UI w

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 2013-05-20 19:42, Jonathan M Davis wrote: IIRC, they use macros quite a bit for various stuff (like signals and slots), and they have their own version of make to set up some stuff for you. So, my first guess is that conversion would be a bit of a beast. But it's been a while since I did much

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

I can't tell if this is snark or not so I'll assume it isn't. :-) I don't know how likely cross-language portability is to be achieved by any UI toolkit, way to many things that need more advanced language features. If we use D we'd probably end-up using a non-portable set of language features

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:21:28 -0700 Brad Roberts wrote: > On 5/20/13 9:49 PM, Peter Williams wrote: > > > > Yes, if D aspires to be a systems programming language it can't keep > > relying on wrappers around C/C++ libraries (especially C++). In the > > long term, it should be D all the way down t

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 21/05/13 16:21, Brad Roberts wrote: On 5/20/13 9:49 PM, Peter Williams wrote: Yes, if D aspires to be a systems programming language it can't keep relying on wrappers around C/C++ libraries (especially C++). In the long term, it should be D all the way down to the OS API. You wrote this a

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 23:00:10 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 2013 20:46:48 -0700, Tyler Jameson Little > wrote: > > > If we're generally in agreement that a UI toolkit is a good > > direction, I'd love to waste the next few months of my life doing > > something that likely won't g

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

See my DConf talk in a few days (I was #3 on Day 2). It has a pattern for concurrent data mutation at the end that might be more useful than a global lock, which has some pretty disturbing implications for high-performance rendering code. I can't help but feel that making them concurrent is

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 5/20/13 9:49 PM, Peter Williams wrote: Yes, if D aspires to be a systems programming language it can't keep relying on wrappers around C/C++ libraries (especially C++). In the long term, it should be D all the way down to the OS API. You wrote this as if not using c and c++ libraries is a

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 20:46:48 -0700, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: I'd love to get this up and running but I think we've got a blocker right now in D and that is the lack of package import, the GUI system is going to be a monster no matter how it's sliced and I'd lack to avoid the std.datetime e

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 20:26:33 -0700, Peter Williams wrote: On 21/05/13 12:53, Adam Wilson wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:50:47 -0700, Peter Williams wrote: On 21/05/13 08:49, Adam Wilson wrote: I'd be willing to lead the project, I'm just not sure I am the right person to do so. I have a

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 20:26:29 -0700, Diggory wrote: On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 02:47:59 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote: could care less http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw Sorry... I type quickly but not always accurately, I actually caught that right after hitting send. -- Adam Wilson

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 22:00:39 -0700, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 19:48:00 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 17:04:40 -0700, Nick Sabalausky wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:50:06 -0700 > "Adam Wilson" wrote: >> >> What if as a UI designer I know that I want to

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tue, 21 May 2013 05:26:29 +0200 "Diggory" wrote: > On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 02:47:59 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote: > > could care less > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw > > Sorry... Yes! I've been pointing that out for years! First time I've ever seen anyone else address it. And it

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 21/05/13 13:46, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: I'm completely willing to head up the initial development. I probably won't get anything done, and any initial work will be Linux-specific (I honestly don't care about Mac OS X or Windows). Nor me, really. Nevertheless, I've found using PyGTK mean

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 22:18:31 -0700, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 19:24:44 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 18:04:10 -0700, Nick Sabalausky wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:54:10 -0700 > "Adam Wilson" wrote: >> >> Very few actual users care about changing the b

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 20:32:30 -0700, Tyler Jameson Little wrote: So the basic premise of the argument is that if we can't make everyone happy we shouldn't do anything at all? That's the initial feeling I get, but I think it comes more from the idea that a large piece of software they didn

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 19:24:44 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 2013 18:04:10 -0700, Nick Sabalausky > wrote: > > > On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:54:10 -0700 > > "Adam Wilson" wrote: > >> > >> Very few actual users care about changing the behavior of the > >> widgets. Most people who want

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 19:48:00 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 2013 17:04:40 -0700, Nick Sabalausky > wrote: > > > On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:50:06 -0700 > > "Adam Wilson" wrote: > >> > >> What if as a UI designer I know that I want to specifically > >> disallow skinning? It's not even

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

I'd love to get this up and running but I think we've got a blocker right now in D and that is the lack of package import, the GUI system is going to be a monster no matter how it's sliced and I'd lack to avoid the std.datetime effect. Sorry Jonathan Davis! Why do you need package import? Ca

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

So the basic premise of the argument is that if we can't make everyone happy we shouldn't do anything at all? That's the initial feeling I get, but I think it comes more from the idea that a large piece of software they didn't write might be dumped on them. It's a legitimate concern, so I thin

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 02:47:59 UTC, Adam Wilson wrote: could care less http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw Sorry...

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 21/05/13 12:53, Adam Wilson wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:50:47 -0700, Peter Williams wrote: On 21/05/13 08:49, Adam Wilson wrote: I'd be willing to lead the project, I'm just not sure I am the right person to do so. I have a vision, and the skeleton of a design, but no code. I am willing

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 16:50:47 -0700, Peter Williams wrote: On 21/05/13 08:49, Adam Wilson wrote: I'd be willing to lead the project, I'm just not sure I am the right person to do so. I have a vision, and the skeleton of a design, but no code. I am willing, but my ability is a question mark..

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 17:04:40 -0700, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:50:06 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:21:22 -0700, Nick Sabalausky wrote: > > I still have a hard time believing that it's realistic for it take > take everything into account. *Even* if y

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 18:04:10 -0700, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:54:10 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: Very few actual users care about changing the behavior of the widgets. Most people who want to change them just want to skin them. One standard deviation is all that ever m

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 18:12:20 -0700, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:49:48 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: On Mon, 20 May 2013 14:47:47 -0700, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: > > So to actually do it, I think we need: > > 1) A "core" for a GUI library written in D that people can start > h

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:49:48 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: > On Mon, 20 May 2013 14:47:47 -0700, Andrej Mitrovic > wrote: > > > > So to actually do it, I think we need: > > > > 1) A "core" for a GUI library written in D that people can start > > hacking on (meaning you can create windows, and dra

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Mon, 20 May 2013 15:54:10 -0700 "Adam Wilson" wrote: > > Very few actual users care about changing the behavior of the > widgets. Most people who want to change them just want to skin them. > One standard deviation is all that ever matters. Everyone else can and should just go fuck off. It's

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 21/05/13 08:49, Adam Wilson wrote: I'd be willing to lead the project, I'm just not sure I am the right person to do so. I have a vision, and the skeleton of a design, but no code. I am willing, but my ability is a question mark... I'd volunteer to be a foot soldier on this project as I'd

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On Tuesday, 21 May 2013 at 00:05:21 UTC, Diggory wrote: On Monday, 20 May 2013 at 23:40:34 UTC, Andrej Mitrovic wrote: On 5/21/13, Adam Wilson wrote: Sub-pixel font hinting. Almost no games use this, and almost every OS toolkit does. There used to be a nice article about font rendering in O

Re: Ideal D GUI Toolkit

On 5/21/13, Kiith-Sa wrote: > H3r3tic had a more advanced GUI framework (still not native), > hybrid, which IMO has a far better API than any framework I've > seen, but I never found the source, > only documentation somewhere on his (unmaintained) site. It's here though, hidden in another project

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