Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-19 Thread Ali via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 9 March 2018 at 21:43:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2018H1 In addition to the expected items, we have a new top-level priority - locking down the language

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-19 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 21:38:30 UTC, rumbu wrote: Do you know anything else in the .net library than LINQ where extension methods (somehow equivalent to UFCS) are abused? I thought that something happened in the .net world while I was asleep, that's why I just searched my local copy of

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-19 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 18:35:14 UTC, Tony wrote: I thought C# was like Java and does not allow free procedures. Can you give an example of C# procedural-style IO? All methods of Console class.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-18 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 18 March 2018 at 10:28:58 UTC, Radu wrote: On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 18:15:02 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 10:48:45 UTC, Radu wrote: You have to remember that the really big first client of betterC(++) was DMD, porting DMD from C++ was a big

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-18 Thread Radu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 18:15:02 UTC, David Nadlinger wrote: On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 10:48:45 UTC, Radu wrote: You have to remember that the really big first client of betterC(++) was DMD, porting DMD from C++ was a big undertaking. Right now both DMD and LDC use a form of betterC,

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-17 Thread bauss via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 19:08:47 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote: On 03/16/2018 02:35 PM, Tony wrote: On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 15:04:21 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 16:03:14 UTC, rumbu wrote: Are you sure that you are talking about phobos and not tango? :)

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-17 Thread Greatsam4sure via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 04:06:13 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote: On 03/10/2018 05:47 AM, Dylan Graham wrote: On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:05:49 UTC, rumbu wrote: According to the State of D Survey, 71% of the respondents don't care about betterC. Why is betterC on the priority

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, March 16, 2018 21:37:44 Void-995 via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: > Every time I'm thinking that something is impossible to be > elegantly and/or easily done even in D - someone proves me wrong. > > And common, I just had that little spark of motivation to look > into DMD, what is my

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread Void-995 via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 15:58:25 UTC, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On 3/12/18 10:57 AM, Void-995 wrote: On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 10:38:57 UTC, bachmeier wrote: On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 05:02:31 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Now, I actually understand ranges and am very glad that

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 15:04:21 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 16:03:14 UTC, rumbu wrote: Are you sure that you are talking about phobos and not tango? :) I'm eager to find how I'm uninformed. Tango doesn't use UFCS, while phobos and .net framework are big on

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread Dukc via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 18:35:14 UTC, Tony wrote: I thought C# was like Java and does not allow free procedures. Can you give an example of C# procedural-style IO? Well, this is not IO, but: public struct DivInt { public int quot; public int rem; } public static class Utility {

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 03/16/2018 02:35 PM, Tony wrote: On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 15:04:21 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 16:03:14 UTC, rumbu wrote: Are you sure that you are talking about phobos and not tango? :) I'm eager to find how I'm uninformed. Tango doesn't use UFCS, while phobos

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread Tony via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 15:04:21 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 16:03:14 UTC, rumbu wrote: Are you sure that you are talking about phobos and not tango? :) I'm eager to find how I'm uninformed. Tango doesn't use UFCS, while phobos and .net framework are big on

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread David Nadlinger via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 10:48:45 UTC, Radu wrote: You have to remember that the really big first client of betterC(++) was DMD, porting DMD from C++ was a big undertaking. Right now both DMD and LDC use a form of betterC, so it is critical to have it finalized. This is entirely wrong.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 3/12/18 10:57 AM, Void-995 wrote: On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 10:38:57 UTC, bachmeier wrote: On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 05:02:31 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Now, I actually understand ranges and am very glad that they're there, but as a D newbie, they were annoying, because they were

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 16:03:14 UTC, rumbu wrote: Are you sure that you are talking about phobos and not tango? :) I'm eager to find how I'm uninformed. Tango doesn't use UFCS, while phobos and .net framework are big on extension methods. Also tango uses object oriented console IO,

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 07:58:33 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: Playing captain the obvious but this is COPY not slice. Shh. Don't tell my customers that. D had slices since 2000s, pointing to any kind of memory. Mmm..D showing off.. as always ;-)

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 3/15/2018 3:48 AM, Radu wrote: Lastly, the objective is a bit vague - there is no scope attached to it, maybe this needs clarifications. Even if it means fixing all the logged bugs related to it, it is a great step, at least for me. For reference, here are all the betterC bugs:

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-16 Thread Dmitry Olshansky via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 16 March 2018 at 01:45:57 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 18:39:08 public static class Utils { public static T[] Slice(this T[] arr, int start, int len) { T[] slice = new T[len]; Array.Copy(arr, start, slice, 0, len); return

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 18:39:08 UTC, rumbu wrote: My quote is out of context. Somebody asked surprised why C# developers are interested in D. For me (mainly a C# developer), this is the main reason: native compilation (and this includes memory management). I highlighted the fact that

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 21:10:47 UTC, flamencofantasy wrote: On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 at 05:22:53 UTC, rumbu wrote: I doubt that this was the blocker because C# had ArraySegment since .net framework 2.0 (2006), which is exactly a slice, but doesn't have the syntactic sugar for it.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread flamencofantasy via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Wednesday, 14 March 2018 at 05:22:53 UTC, rumbu wrote: I doubt that this was the blocker because C# had ArraySegment since .net framework 2.0 (2006), which is exactly a slice, but doesn't have the syntactic sugar for it. If it doesn't have the syntactic sugar how is it "exactly a slice"?

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 17:17:47 UTC, Dukc wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 07:59:53 UTC, rumbu wrote: My opinion is that the day when C# will compile to native (on any platform), the C# developer interest in D will drop instantly. I do write a commerical project in C#. But I have an

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread Dukc via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 07:59:53 UTC, rumbu wrote: My opinion is that the day when C# will compile to native (on any platform), the C# developer interest in D will drop instantly. I do write a commerical project in C#. But I have an opposite feeling: The day D will easily compile to

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 12:23:19 UTC, Kagamin wrote: No, FWIW phobos uses more or less the same programming solutions as .net framework, the claim that they are different is an uninformed opinion. Are you sure that you are talking about phobos and not tango? :) I'm eager to find how

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 03:31:36 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: C# slices look great. Dunno, when I wanted a slice in C#, I wrote a prettier one. C# could get stuff done 20 years ago already, ugly slices and native compilation won't add anything to it. If Phobos looks like a mess to C#

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread Radu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 09:05:52 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 04:06:13 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote: First of all, betterC is about far more than interfacing with C. In fact, interop with C isn't really what betterC is about at all - that's a separate aspect

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread timotheecour via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Thursday, 15 March 2018 at 09:05:52 UTC, Kagamin wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 04:06:13 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote: First of all, betterC is about far more than interfacing with C. In fact, interop with C isn't really what betterC is about at all - that's a separate aspect

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-15 Thread Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 04:06:13 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote: First of all, betterC is about far more than interfacing with C. In fact, interop with C isn't really what betterC is about at all - that's a separate aspect of the language. (And those C/C++ users who still haven't

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-13 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 at 23:20:22 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote: On 03/11/2018 11:31 PM, Laeeth Isharc wrote: C# slices look great. I wonder if that might open the door for D on the CLR. I know that was attempted once a long way back, but was deemed infeasible and abandoned.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-13 Thread Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 03/11/2018 11:31 PM, Laeeth Isharc wrote: C# slices look great. I wonder if that might open the door for D on the CLR. I know that was attempted once a long way back, but was deemed infeasible and abandoned. IIRC, inability to implement slices was the main blocker.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-12 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Tuesday, 13 March 2018 at 01:23:39 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: hey... I have 25+ years experience as a systems administator. i.e I'm very, very used to doing very complex things. complex, is my day at the office. But even I couldn't get my head around how to compile D from source on

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-12 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 19:09:42 UTC, Dennis wrote: On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 16:07:40 UTC, SealabJaster wrote: This post may not be all that helpful, but I feel the need to voice the frustrations with my experience. Sorry for the pointless/off-topic rant. Thank you for this post, I

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-12 Thread ag0aep6g via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 16:07:40 UTC, SealabJaster wrote: I wanted to try and add some colouring[2] to dmd's error messages (sounds easy enough right?), so I have a quick look and see all I need to do is add some backticks around certain parts of the error message[3, as an example]. So I

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-12 Thread Dennis via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 16:07:40 UTC, SealabJaster wrote: This post may not be all that helpful, but I feel the need to voice the frustrations with my experience. Sorry for the pointless/off-topic rant. Thank you for this post, I found this actually really insightful. I'm also

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-12 Thread SealabJaster via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 17:15:28 UTC, Seb wrote: What could be done from your perspective to make the setup easier? (This is from the perspective of a novice programmer, who hasn't really interacted with open source projects much) When I first tried to compile dmd+druntime+phobos quite

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-12 Thread Void-995 via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 10:38:57 UTC, bachmeier wrote: On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 05:02:31 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Now, I actually understand ranges and am very glad that they're there, but as a D newbie, they were annoying, because they were unfamiliar. Ranges are D's monads. The

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-12 Thread bachmeier via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 05:02:31 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: Now, I actually understand ranges and am very glad that they're there, but as a D newbie, they were annoying, because they were unfamiliar. Ranges are D's monads. The only thing missing is the burrito tutorials.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-12 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 06:13:35 UTC, rumbu wrote: I'm comparing two open source projects, both hosted on github. Both available in the same supermarket. It seems that one of them is easy to reach to, the other one is on the top shelf and you need a forklift to reach it. And when you

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-12 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 04:48:43 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: but I think comparing things in the C# world, to things in the D world, does not make a lot of sense, really. It's like comparing my local corner shop to some worldwide supermarket chain. I'm comparing two open source

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 03:11:34 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: You don't need to have subsystem for Linux to use bash. Just the standard git client for Windows is enough. Happy to find out about this. It's not like using git bash everyday on Windows to know this by default. sh setup.sh

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 03:37:11 UTC, Laeeth Isharc wrote: cd test make all -j8 Command error: undefined switch '-j8' Why are you adding -j8 ? Does it say to do so in the instructions ? Try without it. (I can't test here as typing from my phone).

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Seb via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, 12 March 2018 at 04:54:22 UTC, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Monday, March 12, 2018 03:37:11 Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 19:58:51 UTC, rumbu wrote: > [...] Why are you adding -j8 ? Does it say to do so in the instructions ? Try without

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, March 12, 2018 03:31:36 Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: > If Phobos looks like a mess to C# programmers, so much the worse > for C# programmers. However I doubt they this is true in the > general case. It's better in many ways, but different and > unfamiliar and

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Monday, March 12, 2018 03:37:11 Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: > On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 19:58:51 UTC, rumbu wrote: > > On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 17:15:28 UTC, Seb wrote: > >> [...] > > > > Yes, I'm the typical lazy convenient Windows user scared of the > > terminal

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 16:15:22 UTC, rumbu wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 14:37:28 UTC, bachmeier wrote: And this clarifies the source of your confusion. The D programming language is an open source project, not a for-profit company. D is not the language you're looking for. There

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 19:58:51 UTC, rumbu wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 17:15:28 UTC, Seb wrote: [...] Yes, I'm the typical lazy convenient Windows user scared of the terminal window. [...] I am happy for Posix users. Theoretically the process is the same on Windows.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 07:59:53 UTC, rumbu wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:10:28 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 00:36:19 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: And personally, depending on the problem, C# is better to program in than D. I still don't know why C#

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Laeeth Isharc via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 16:15:22 UTC, rumbu wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 14:37:28 UTC, bachmeier wrote: And this clarifies the source of your confusion. The D programming language is an open source project, not a for-profit company. D is not the language you're looking for. There

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Frank Brassard via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 07:59:53 UTC, rumbu wrote: Because, even the language creators seem to not recognize this, D looks like C# with *native compilation*, the syntax is 95% identical. Basically, if my source code doesn't use any .NET framework function, it will compile successfully with

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 17:15:28 UTC, Seb wrote: I assume you are using Windows? Yes, I'm the typical lazy convenient Windows user scared of the terminal window. Setup on Posix is really simple. git clone all three repos + run make. I am happy for Posix users. Theoretically the

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Seb via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 16:15:22 UTC, rumbu wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 14:37:28 UTC, bachmeier wrote: And this clarifies the source of your confusion. The D programming language is an open source project, not a for-profit company. D is not the language you're looking for. There

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Aravinda VK via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 16:15:22 UTC, rumbu wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 14:37:28 UTC, bachmeier wrote: And this clarifies the source of your confusion. The D programming language is an open source project, not a for-profit company. D is not the language you're looking for. There

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 14:37:28 UTC, bachmeier wrote: And this clarifies the source of your confusion. The D programming language is an open source project, not a for-profit company. D is not the language you're looking for. There are 3 years since C# is also open source project. Last

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 13:36:27 UTC, R wrote: I am sure that lots of D members will be quick to point out, that C# is run by a commercial company and D has only open source contributors. Now why did you not contribute! /sarcasm I'd like to point out, that C# is run by a commercial

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread bachmeier via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 13:36:27 UTC, R wrote: With the usual response here: "Why do you not fix it yourself or pay for it". Maybe because most people who come want to use the tools and be productive and not spend their time fixing up those tools. I've never seen anyone write that. Most

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread R via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 07:59:53 UTC, rumbu wrote: Because, even the language creators seem to not recognize this, D looks like C# with *native compilation*, the syntax is 95% identical. Basically, if my source code doesn't use any .NET framework function, it will compile successfully with

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread nkm1 via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:05:49 UTC, rumbu wrote: On Friday, 9 March 2018 at 21:43:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2018H1 According to the State of D Survey, 71% of

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:25:07 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: betterc is just another way of supporting that crowd..and it's a very big crowd. Yeah, 29% of the crowd. 29% of the existing D crowd who answered the survey, which means around 150 people, or about how many download one compiler,

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 07:59:53 UTC, rumbu wrote: My opinion is that the day when C# will compile to native (on any platform), the C# developer interest in D will drop instantly. OT: Interestingly, my uni is still stuck in the OOP paradigm, and is now teaching intro to OOP using .NET

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-11 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:10:28 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 00:36:19 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: And personally, depending on the problem, C# is better to program in than D. I still don't know why C# programmers are willing to give up C# and prefer to use D. C#

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 05:41:02 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: I regret some of things I said. I'm sorry for any offence caused, specifically towards members of the DLF. I don't think you need to regret saying anything. You've demonstrated a willingness to engage in a conversation that we

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 04:06:13 UTC, Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) wrote: On 03/10/2018 05:47 AM, Dylan Graham wrote: On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:05:49 UTC, rumbu wrote: According to the State of D Survey, 71% of the respondents don't care about betterC. Why is betterC on the priority

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Timothee Cour via Digitalmars-d-announce
IMO this should be the priority: 1. blockers (things that can't be worked around at all or not without jumping through a lot of hoops) 2. everything else dmd still doesn't support shared libraries on OSX (cf https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12190) That prevents a whole category of use

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Nick Sabalausky (Abscissa) via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 03/10/2018 05:47 AM, Dylan Graham wrote: On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:05:49 UTC, rumbu wrote: According to the State of D Survey, 71% of the respondents don't care about betterC. Why is betterC on the priority list? Yeah. Why should D worry about tying itself into C when it can't

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 02:02:15 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:58:50 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: i.e. How can the D Foundation encourage new additional resoures to focus on things that also matter to the community. and btw. the mention about strengthing

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:58:50 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: i.e. How can the D Foundation encourage new additional resoures to focus on things that also matter to the community. and btw. the mention about strengthing the use of DIPS, does just that. there are many improvement to

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:53:30 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: That sentence was to counter psychoticRabbit. I didn't mean it literally. If you've read my earlier posts, it's not BetterC I have an issue with, it's the allocation of time. Well that should have been the basis of your

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:50:22 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:36:51 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: The D Language Foundation, being the leading body of D, should hold some responsibility to the interests of the majority. Please read my post from earlier:

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:36:51 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: The D Language Foundation, being the leading body of D, should hold some responsibility to the interests of the majority. Please read my post from earlier: https://forum.dlang.org/post/chsqspkoxbcdqjcqb...@forum.dlang.org The

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:46:09 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: Rust was more popular and who could use that? Rust is popular because of its ideas, not because it pandered. I don't see "programmer" portability as being pandering. It common sense. Rust is good, in that it seeks to do

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:41:33 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:25:07 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: I'm not sure what you mean at that last sentence. I mean, cause D is so compatible with C/C++/Java/C# - that you can easily switch between them. Whereas as Go and

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:36:51 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: The D Language Foundation, being the leading body of D, should hold some responsibility to the interests of the majority. And also the minority. A lesson that humanity has to learn over and over again.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:45:01 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:36:51 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: The D Language Foundation, being the leading body of D, should hold some responsibility to the interests of the majority. And also the minority. A lesson that

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:25:07 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: I'm not sure what you mean at that last sentence. I mean, cause D is so compatible with C/C++/Java/C# - that you can easily switch between them. Whereas as Go and Rust have their own thing going, making those languages really

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:21:27 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:06:08 UTC, R wrote: Point to the wall on the left side. That is what your talking to. D its focus on C++ as a bad plan has been made pushed by many people ( lots who left ). Its like asking Go for

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:06:08 UTC, R wrote: And "scripting" language like PHP, that everybody criticizes just keeps growing and gained 11% market share in the last 7 years ( at now 83% ). Where as D its gain has been minimalist thanks to people leaving almost as fast as it gain.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:10:28 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 00:36:19 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: Every day D becomes more like C++ 2.0, why can't it just be D? Oddly enough, I think this is D's strength. I really don't. Golang tried to draw the line, and look

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:06:08 UTC, R wrote: Point to the wall on the left side. That is what your talking to. D its focus on C++ as a bad plan has been made pushed by many people ( lots who left ). Its like asking Go for Generics. And its very nice to see the "71% in the poll do not

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 01:06:08 UTC, R wrote: On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 00:36:19 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: Well, no. I'm more concerned with the fact that the D Language Foundation is focused on BetterC, yet does not mention DLLs at all. For God's sake, if D is the future, why does it

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 00:36:19 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: Every day D becomes more like C++ 2.0, why can't it just be D? Oddly enough, I think this is D's strength. Golang tried to draw the line, and look where that got it. Now it's a limited language for a specific domain (at least

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread R via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 00:36:19 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: Well, no. I'm more concerned with the fact that the D Language Foundation is focused on BetterC, yet does not mention DLLs at all. For God's sake, if D is the future, why does it continue to leech off C/C++? Other languages like

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Sunday, 11 March 2018 at 00:36:19 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 11:07:56 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:47:09 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: [Omitted] I also would like to point out that I don't care if some open-source developers decide

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 11:07:56 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:47:09 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: Yeah. Why should D worry about tying itself into C when it can't even interface with itself through DLLs? A reasonable point. But.. in any case.. people work

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Meta via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 9 March 2018 at 21:43:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2018H1 In addition to the expected items, we have a new top-level priority - locking down the language

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Aurélien Plazzotta via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:05:49 UTC, rumbu wrote: On Friday, 9 March 2018 at 21:43:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2018H1 According to the State of D Survey, 71% of

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 11:45:25 UTC, rumbu wrote: I'm talking about the D Foundation priority list, not about the open source community surrounding it. I have nothing against betterC, the community is free to work on it, but I don't understand why it's a *priority* for the D foundation.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 11:45:25 UTC, rumbu wrote: I'm talking about the D Foundation priority list, not about the open source community surrounding it. I have nothing against betterC, the community is free to work on it, but I don't understand why it's a *priority* for the D

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 11:07:56 UTC, psychoticRabbit wrote: On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:47:09 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: Yeah. Why should D worry about tying itself into C when it can't even interface with itself through DLLs? A reasonable point. But.. in any case.. people work

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:05:49 UTC, rumbu wrote: According to the State of D Survey, 71% of the respondents don't care about betterC. Why is betterC on the priority list? who cares what 'the majority' want... I mean really. stuff em! (ohh... that was in jest.. don't take that

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Mike Parker via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:05:49 UTC, rumbu wrote: According to the State of D Survey, 71% of the respondents don't care about betterC. Why is betterC on the priority list? 1. The vision document was started before the survey and the survey isn't closed, so the survey results don't

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:47:09 UTC, Dylan Graham wrote: Yeah. Why should D worry about tying itself into C when it can't even interface with itself through DLLs? A reasonable point. But.. in any case.. people work on what they are motivated to work on. That's really all there is

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dylan Graham via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:05:49 UTC, rumbu wrote: On Friday, 9 March 2018 at 21:43:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2018H1 According to the State of D Survey, 71% of

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread Dukc via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Saturday, 10 March 2018 at 10:05:49 UTC, rumbu wrote: According to the State of D Survey, 71% of the respondents don't care about betterC. Why is betterC on the priority list? I believe it's because it's so important for the 29% who care. If you're doing an module for project written in

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-10 Thread rumbu via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 9 March 2018 at 21:43:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2018H1 According to the State of D Survey, 71% of the respondents don't care about betterC. Why is betterC

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-09 Thread psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 9 March 2018 at 21:43:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: nice. andd that 'langauge specification' is really important too.. or people will drift towards languages that 'are' properly specified.

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-09 Thread rikki cattermole via Digitalmars-d-announce
On 10/03/2018 10:43 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2018H1 In addition to the expected items, we have a new top-level priority - locking down the language definition. This is in

Re: Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-09 Thread Joakim via Digitalmars-d-announce
On Friday, 9 March 2018 at 21:43:53 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2018H1 In addition to the expected items, we have a new top-level priority - locking down the language

Vision document for H1 2018

2018-03-09 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d-announce
Hello, the vision document of the Founation for the first six months of 2018 is here: https://wiki.dlang.org/Vision/2018H1 In addition to the expected items, we have a new top-level priority - locking down the language definition. This is in recognition of the fact that we need a precise