Re: Beta 2.079.0

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 16:58:22 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 02:46:56PM +, psychoticRabbit via 
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: [...]

Syntax is EVERYTHING. It can make or break a language.


And semantics doesn't matter.

:-D


T


assert("easy on the eyes" == "easy on the brain");

wtf! I get an assertion failure??

programming languages are just dumb tools to write syntax ;-)

the semantics are in a different domain.

Re: NWCPP (and D) Meeting at Microsoft Wednesday Evening

[Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce]

Mugshots Bar, 156th Avenue Northeast, Bellevue, WA

On 2/21/2018 11:04 AM, Bill Baxter wrote:

Where do you go now that the Celtic Bayou is closed?
--bb

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce 
> wrote:


http://nwcpp.org/

I plan to be there; a bunch of Seattle area D folks come regularly. We hear
the presentation, then go out for a beer and conversation afterwards.

Come join us!

-Walter

Re: NWCPP (and D) Meeting at Microsoft Wednesday Evening

[Bill Baxter via Digitalmars-d-announce]

Oh, forgot   . :-)

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 11:04 AM, Bill Baxter  wrote:

> Where do you go now that the Celtic Bayou is closed?
> --bb
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce
>  wrote:
>
>> http://nwcpp.org/
>>
>> I plan to be there; a bunch of Seattle area D folks come regularly. We
>> hear the presentation, then go out for a beer and conversation afterwards.
>>
>> Come join us!
>>
>> -Walter
>>
>
>

Re: NWCPP (and D) Meeting at Microsoft Wednesday Evening

[Bill Baxter via Digitalmars-d-announce]

Where do you go now that the Celtic Bayou is closed?
--bb

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d-announce <
digitalmars-d-announce@puremagic.com> wrote:

> http://nwcpp.org/
>
> I plan to be there; a bunch of Seattle area D folks come regularly. We
> hear the presentation, then go out for a beer and conversation afterwards.
>
> Come join us!
>
> -Walter
>

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[rjframe via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2018 14:46:56 +, psychoticRabbit wrote:

> how on earth can anyone approve, that syntax like that, can become part
> of the D Programming language?
> 
> I'm really bewildered.
> 
> Syntax is EVERYTHING. It can make or break a language.

It does make sense in moderation for quick scripts, examples, blog posts, 
etc., where you want to showcase your actual code, not draw attention to 
the list of imports. Though with the std.scripting (or whatever it was) 
now, it's perhaps less useful for some of these.

But it likely shouldn't be used in "real" applications; in particular, I 
think it would be nice for the Phobos style guide to restrict/disallow its 
use.

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wed, Feb 21, 2018 at 02:46:56PM +, psychoticRabbit via 
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:
[...]
> Syntax is EVERYTHING. It can make or break a language.

And semantics doesn't matter.

:-D


T

-- 
Let's not fight disease by killing the patient. -- Sean 'Shaleh' Perry

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 15:33:02 UTC, Joakim wrote:


I thought about chiming in on that PR when it was open, but 
didn't because the vote was split at 5-5 and I thought it 
wouldn't get merged.  Also, I'm not against the idea in 
principle, but I do wish you'd chosen better syntax, such as 
not reusing the comma to split modules too.  I don't have a 
better separator suggestion though, `|`?


How about the plain obvious?

import std.stdio:write,writeln,writefln & 
std.array:join,split,replicate;

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[Joakim via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 08:43:50 UTC, Martin Nowak wrote:

On Monday, 19 February 2018 at 15:58:57 UTC, Joakim wrote:
17. Allow multiple selective imports from different modules in 
a single import statement


I have a bad feeling that that one is going to be a source of 
a raft of bugs for years to come.


No need to use it if you don't like it.


I don't think I will.

It's particularly useful for small examples, localized imports 
and hacking.


Eh, the problem is it won't be used just for that.

It's mainly a generalisation of the existing possibility to mix 
module imports and one selective import at the end.


Yes, I recognize the need for something like that, as I too have 
been annoyed that I had to split up import lines when adding 
selective symbols.


If you prefer java-like 50 lines import manifests, then by all 
means keep using those.


I don't, but there's a clarity to those that's not there with 
this.



How would that feature cause bugs though?


Two ways I can think of, first, local imports was supposed to be 
a small change and yet here we are fixing symbol leaks with it 
_years_ later.  Looking at your patch now, it's so small that 
maybe it won't have those problems.


The other are the ambiguity and readability issues that others 
have already mentioned, that will trip up D devs for years to 
come.


I thought about chiming in on that PR when it was open, but 
didn't because the vote was split at 5-5 and I thought it 
wouldn't get merged.  Also, I'm not against the idea in 
principle, but I do wish you'd chosen better syntax, such as not 
reusing the comma to split modules too.  I don't have a better 
separator suggestion though, `|`?

Please submit to DConf 2018!

[Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d-announce]

With the Feb 25 deadline looming, allow me to holler to everyone who has 
worked on great things in the D language through the past year: please 
make a DConf 2018 submission!


By all measures there's been significant pick up in contributions to the 
D language during the recent months, and it would be awesome to have 
that solid work reflected in a strong program in Munich.


What we need on Feb 25 are your title, abstract, and bio. What we need 
on your talk day is your lovable self talking about your great idea.


Giving a talk at DConf is a high service to the D language community. In 
recognition of that, the D Language Foundation reimburses travel and 
accommodation expenses for speakers. Please contact Michael Parker 
(soc...@dlang.org) for details.



Thanks,

Andrei

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[psychoticRabbit via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 10:15:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:04:01 Kagamin via 
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 22:54:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Yeah, personally I'd avoid writing it that way too.

There's no other way to use this feature though.


Some of us think that it's a bad feature and have no intention 
of ever using it, though once it's in the language, we all have 
to worry about dealing with code that does use it.


- Jonathan M Davis


+1000

how on earth can anyone approve, that syntax like that, can 
become part of the D Programming language?


I'm really bewildered.

Syntax is EVERYTHING. It can make or break a language.

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[Paolo Invernizzi via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 10:47:45 UTC, Eugene Wissner 
wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 10:24:41 UTC, Paolo 
Invernizzi wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 10:15:48 UTC, Jonathan M 
Davis wrote:
On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:04:01 Kagamin via 
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 22:54:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh 
wrote:

> Yeah, personally I'd avoid writing it that way too.

There's no other way to use this feature though.


Some of us think that it's a bad feature and have no 
intention of ever using it, though once it's in the language, 
we all have to worry about dealing with code that does use it.


- Jonathan M Davis


Was there a DIP for that?

/Paolo


https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13855
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/6589


And here we are again.

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:24:41 Paolo Invernizzi via Digitalmars-d-
announce wrote:
> On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 10:15:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis
>
> wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:04:01 Kagamin via
> >
> > Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 22:54:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> >> > Yeah, personally I'd avoid writing it that way too.
> >>
> >> There's no other way to use this feature though.
> >
> > Some of us think that it's a bad feature and have no intention
> > of ever using it, though once it's in the language, we all have
> > to worry about dealing with code that does use it.
>
> Was there a DIP for that?

No, and I have no idea whether Walter approved of it or knows anything about
it. He may be fine with it, or it may be that another compiler dev merged
it, and he didn't notice. The list of DIPs is here, and this definitely
isn't one of them:

https://github.com/dlang/DIPs/tree/master/DIPs

When suggestions like this have come up in the past, some of us have been
against the idea, and others have loved the idea, but until this beta was
released, I had no idea that anyone had actually gone and implemented it.

- Jonathan M Davis

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[Eugene Wissner via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 10:24:41 UTC, Paolo Invernizzi 
wrote:
On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 10:15:48 UTC, Jonathan M 
Davis wrote:
On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:04:01 Kagamin via 
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 22:54:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh 
wrote:

> Yeah, personally I'd avoid writing it that way too.

There's no other way to use this feature though.


Some of us think that it's a bad feature and have no intention 
of ever using it, though once it's in the language, we all 
have to worry about dealing with code that does use it.


- Jonathan M Davis


Was there a DIP for that?

/Paolo


https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13855
https://github.com/dlang/dmd/pull/6589

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[Suliman via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 22:54:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 10:19:03PM +, John Gabriele via 
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote: [...]
Thanks. Is the point to be able to string a bunch of selective 
imports together, as in:


import pkg.mod1 : sym1, sym2, pkg.mod2 : sym1, sym2, 
pkg.mod3 : sym1;


?

That's difficult to read; it's hard to see the difference 
between the commas that separate the symbols vs the commas 
that separate the modules+symbols groups.


Yeah, personally I'd avoid writing it that way too.  But 
obviously enough people like this syntax to push it through. 
*shrug*





I also dislike this import syntax

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[Paolo Invernizzi via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, 21 February 2018 at 10:15:48 UTC, Jonathan M Davis 
wrote:
On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:04:01 Kagamin via 
Digitalmars-d-announce wrote:

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 22:54:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> Yeah, personally I'd avoid writing it that way too.

There's no other way to use this feature though.


Some of us think that it's a bad feature and have no intention 
of ever using it, though once it's in the language, we all have 
to worry about dealing with code that does use it.


- Jonathan M Davis


Was there a DIP for that?

/Paolo

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[Jonathan M Davis via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:04:01 Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-announce 
wrote:
> On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 22:54:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:
> > Yeah, personally I'd avoid writing it that way too.
>
> There's no other way to use this feature though.

Some of us think that it's a bad feature and have no intention of ever using
it, though once it's in the language, we all have to worry about dealing
with code that does use it.

- Jonathan M Davis

Re: Beta 2.079.0

[Kagamin via Digitalmars-d-announce]

On Tuesday, 20 February 2018 at 22:54:43 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote:

Yeah, personally I'd avoid writing it that way too.


There's no other way to use this feature though.