Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Monday, 7 March 2022 at 09:58:32 UTC, forkit wrote: On Monday, 7 March 2022 at 08:47:00 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Monday, 7 March 2022 at 08:07:11 UTC, forkit wrote: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Well.. There's 'fixing it' and there's 'improving it'. They are not the same thing. In my opinion, gitlab is not an improvement. I agree ;-) I just wanted to point out, that using 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' is not a useful rebuttal to suggestions for 'improvement'. A lot of things wouldn't have to be added to D if D followed that philosophy for everything.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Monday, 7 March 2022 at 08:47:00 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Monday, 7 March 2022 at 08:07:11 UTC, forkit wrote: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Well.. There's 'fixing it' and there's 'improving it'. They are not the same thing. In my opinion, gitlab is not an improvement. I agree ;-) I just wanted to point out, that using 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' is not a useful rebuttal to suggestions for 'improvement'.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Monday, 7 March 2022 at 08:07:11 UTC, forkit wrote: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Well.. There's 'fixing it' and there's 'improving it'. They are not the same thing. In my opinion, gitlab is not an improvement.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 14:03:38 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: But my point was, GitHub has worked well for us for years. There's no desire to move away that I'm aware of. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" Well.. There's 'fixing it' and there's 'improving it'. They are not the same thing.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 14:03:38 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 12:39:39 UTC, Bastiaan Veelo wrote: On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 01:21:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: But we have no reason to move the D projects away from GitHub to GitLab. GitLab has never entered the conversation. Two reasons would be that 1) It already offers [an integration with bugzilla](https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/integrations/bugzilla.html). 2) Being open source it can be installed on your own hardware, which is the main argument being made for using bugzilla. It also has integrated CI. — Bastiaan. I have no opinion on point #1, but for #2, I do not see that as a benefit. We're aiming to integrate all of our services. As I see it, the less we have to manage ourselves, the better. If we did for some reason want to migrate to GitLab, my vote would be to let them host us. But my point was, GitHub has worked well for us for years. There's no desire to move away that I'm aware of. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! I agree, I personally only use Github, so for me it's preferable that D stays on Github.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 14:03:38 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 12:39:39 UTC, Bastiaan Veelo wrote: On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 01:21:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: But we have no reason to move the D projects away from GitHub to GitLab. GitLab has never entered the conversation. Two reasons would be that 1) It already offers [an integration with bugzilla](https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/integrations/bugzilla.html). 2) Being open source it can be installed on your own hardware, which is the main argument being made for using bugzilla. It also has integrated CI. — Bastiaan. I have no opinion on point #1, but for #2, I do not see that as a benefit. We're aiming to integrate all of our services. As I see it, the less we have to manage ourselves, the better. If we did for some reason want to migrate to GitLab, my vote would be to let them host us. But my point was, GitHub has worked well for us for years. There's no desire to move away that I'm aware of. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Definitely. Personally I think moving the tickets to GitHub is a good idea, I just felt these points needed to be made for completeness. — Bastiaan.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 12:39:39 UTC, Bastiaan Veelo wrote: On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 01:21:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: But we have no reason to move the D projects away from GitHub to GitLab. GitLab has never entered the conversation. Two reasons would be that 1) It already offers [an integration with bugzilla](https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/integrations/bugzilla.html). 2) Being open source it can be installed on your own hardware, which is the main argument being made for using bugzilla. It also has integrated CI. — Bastiaan. I have no opinion on point #1, but for #2, I do not see that as a benefit. We're aiming to integrate all of our services. As I see it, the less we have to manage ourselves, the better. If we did for some reason want to migrate to GitLab, my vote would be to let them host us. But my point was, GitHub has worked well for us for years. There's no desire to move away that I'm aware of. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Saturday, 5 March 2022 at 01:21:06 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: But we have no reason to move the D projects away from GitHub to GitLab. GitLab has never entered the conversation. Two reasons would be that 1) It already offers [an integration with bugzilla](https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/user/project/integrations/bugzilla.html). 2) Being open source it can be installed on your own hardware, which is the main argument being made for using bugzilla. It also has integrated CI. — Bastiaan.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 21:44:56 UTC, Arun wrote: On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 07:10:05 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 06:00:06 UTC, Arun wrote: Just curious if we looked at GitLab as an alternative to both GitHub and Bugzilla. We're happy on GitHub and have no plans to move to GitLab. Sure. You mean, GitHub + Bugzilla? No, I mean GitHub. We're not happy with the our version of Bugzilla anymore, which is why we want to either move the issues to GitHub or see if the Bugzilla Harmony is good for us. But we have no reason to move the D projects away from GitHub to GitLab. GitLab has never entered the conversation.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 07:10:05 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 06:00:06 UTC, Arun wrote: Just curious if we looked at GitLab as an alternative to both GitHub and Bugzilla. We're happy on GitHub and have no plans to move to GitLab. Sure. You mean, GitHub + Bugzilla?
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 07:10:05 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 06:00:06 UTC, Arun wrote: Just curious if we looked at GitLab as an alternative to both GitHub and Bugzilla. We're happy on GitHub and have no plans to move to GitLab. Quoting Vladimir, "On the other hand with Bugzilla we are fully in control and own our data, which allows doing a few things not possible with GitHub". GitLab il free software, available and installable on a private server, like Bugzilla, so both the chicken and the eggs. But I fully understand that a migration to GilHub is just fine right now.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Friday, 4 March 2022 at 06:00:06 UTC, Arun wrote: Just curious if we looked at GitLab as an alternative to both GitHub and Bugzilla. We're happy on GitHub and have no plans to move to GitLab.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Thursday, 3 March 2022 at 14:33:54 UTC, Vladimir Panteleev wrote: On Tuesday, 1 March 2022 at 08:12:43 UTC, bauss wrote: [...] I sort of agree with that. I usually don't bother reporting anything because I don't like bugzilla, it would just be much more convenient to use Github. New Bugzilla is much nicer (preview: https://dbugs.k3.1azy.net/), but I agree that it's not possible to beat GitHub's integration with GitHub (and GitHub does not provide the opportunity for better integration either unlike some libre competitors). On the other hand with Bugzilla we are fully in control and own our data, which allows doing a few things not possible with GitHub. This is why we're doing both approaches in parallel (Bugzilla work is currently waiting on obtaining the issues.dlang.org configuration files). Just curious if we looked at GitLab as an alternative to both GitHub and Bugzilla.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Tuesday, 1 March 2022 at 08:12:43 UTC, bauss wrote: Can't beat the nice integration and ease of access Github provides, we need stay fresh to attract new younger souls I sort of agree with that. I usually don't bother reporting anything because I don't like bugzilla, it would just be much more convenient to use Github. New Bugzilla is much nicer (preview: https://dbugs.k3.1azy.net/), but I agree that it's not possible to beat GitHub's integration with GitHub (and GitHub does not provide the opportunity for better integration either unlike some libre competitors). On the other hand with Bugzilla we are fully in control and own our data, which allows doing a few things not possible with GitHub. This is why we're doing both approaches in parallel (Bugzilla work is currently waiting on obtaining the issues.dlang.org configuration files).
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Monday, 28 February 2022 at 22:00:09 UTC, Bastiaan Veelo wrote: On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 11:53:18 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: ## Monthly Meeting Just letting you know that it is posts like these that I look forward to the most, and I very much appreciate the work that goes into them. Thanks! — Bastiaan. Thank you. I'll try to get back on with my original intent to publish them a week after the meetings.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Monday, 28 February 2022 at 08:52:37 UTC, meta wrote: On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 11:53:18 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: ### Vladimir Vladimir opened with a progress report. Back in December, [we discussed migrating our Bugzilla issues to Github](https://forum.dlang.org/post/wnnwxyjtizvhyswwq...@forum.dlang.org). An alternative solution is to [upgrade to Bugzilla Harmony](https://github.com/bugzilla/harmony), a project Vladimir had been contributing to for some time. After that meeting, we agreed that Robert Schadek would move forward with implementing his migration script, while Vladimir would get the new Bugzilla instance set up so we can test it out in the interim. I was looking forward the Github migration.. I'm not liking the constant switch from Github/bugzilla, referencing/looking for issues is also a major pain.. LLVM recently migrated fully to Github/Github Issues, that's is the way to go in my opinion.. Can't beat the nice integration and ease of access Github provides, we need stay fresh to attract new younger souls I sort of agree with that. I usually don't bother reporting anything because I don't like bugzilla, it would just be much more convenient to use Github.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 11:53:18 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: ## Monthly Meeting Just letting you know that it is posts like these that I look forward to the most, and I very much appreciate the work that goes into them. Thanks! — Bastiaan.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 11:53:18 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: ### Vladimir Vladimir opened with a progress report. Back in December, [we discussed migrating our Bugzilla issues to Github](https://forum.dlang.org/post/wnnwxyjtizvhyswwq...@forum.dlang.org). An alternative solution is to [upgrade to Bugzilla Harmony](https://github.com/bugzilla/harmony), a project Vladimir had been contributing to for some time. After that meeting, we agreed that Robert Schadek would move forward with implementing his migration script, while Vladimir would get the new Bugzilla instance set up so we can test it out in the interim. I was looking forward the Github migration.. I'm not liking the constant switch from Github/bugzilla, referencing/looking for issues is also a major pain.. LLVM recently migrated fully to Github/Github Issues, that's is the way to go in my opinion.. Can't beat the nice integration and ease of access Github provides, we need stay fresh to attract new younger souls
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 11:53:18 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: implementation of string interpolation should be easy to explain to anyone. I'm a very unimpressive programmer, and I have a reasonable understanding of the referenced DIP, so I hope Walter will give his blessing. Leveraging D's strengths such as the DIP does is quite cool, and if a user wants something that's similar to the typical implementation used by some other languages, then invoking `text` with an interpolated string is easy, and it will produce the expected result.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 11:53:18 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: **ImportC** Walter told us how he thinks ImportC is going to be a big deal for D. He wants to get us "over the hump" with getting it working properly. He thinks his C extension to allow importing D files in C is working out far better than he expected, and he's considering proposing it to the C committee. The idea that the legendarily-conservative C committee would be willing to consider something like `__import` for standardization strikes me as...extremely optimistic, to say the least.
Re: D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
On Sunday, 27 February 2022 at 11:53:18 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: **128-bit integers** Finally, Walter said he has looked at implementing 128-bit integers (cent and ucent), but implementing them in DMD would be a nightmare. After more thought, he has decided it's probably better to implement them as a library type. He mentioned how complex numbers were ripped out of the compiler and implemented as a library feature. The work that has already been done on `cent`/`ucent` will not be wasted, as it can still be built on to implement the library type. 128-bit soft cent/ucent here: https://github.com/d-gamedev-team/gfm/blob/master/integers/gfm/integers/wideint.d
D Language Foundation Monthly Meeting for February 2022
## Monthly Meeting The D Language Foundation's monthly meeting for February 2022 took place on February 4 and lasted around 1.5 hours. The following foundation members, contractors, and contributors attended: Walter Bright Iain Buclaw Ali Çehreli Max Haughton Martin Kinkelin Mathias Lang Átila Neves Razvan Nitu Vladimir Panteleev Mike Parker ### Me I opened the meeting with a question for Walter. After [a recent forum discussion](https://forum.dlang.org/post/aarigbnntabwbcuqs...@forum.dlang.org), someone had [submitted a DIP](https://github.com/dlang/DIPs/pull/222) that would change the runtime behavior of the default `toString` implementation in the `Exception` class such that it generates stack trace output only when an environment variable is set. Should this be a DIP or an enhancement request in Bugzilla? We had a brief discussion. Vladimir pointed out that stack trace output is only useful when debug symbols are enabled. Ali suggested that perhaps it could be configurable for `Exception`, but `Error` should always print. Átila and Mathias noted that anyone who wants this can just catch all `Exception`s in `main`. This doesn't handle static constructors, but they both said that static constructors that aren't `nothrow` are probably wrong anyway. Walter said a DIP isn't needed---it's fine to post it in Bugzilla as an enhancement request. Later, at the end of the meeting, Martin said he had looked into the DRuntime source. The stack trace handler is configurable by the user, so there may be no need for an enhancement request. It should be sufficient for the user to set the trace handler to a function that returns null. ### Martin Martin said he was eager to see news about the 2.099 release. He felt it was the right time for the stable branch to be updated as some important breaking changes had recently made it into the compiler. This brought about a discussion about the number of the next version after 2.099: should it be 2.0100 or 2.100? The latter would match what we did with the pre-1.0 releases, which [went up to 0.178](https://digitalmars.com/d/1.0/changelog2.html). We moved on quickly from this discussion without any definitive statement, but my impression is that we're leaning toward 2.100. The beta for 2.099 [was announced on February 17](https://forum.dlang.org/thread/vlyynedwupodqcytj...@forum.dlang.org). Martin later reported that he has worked on template emission in unit test mode. When compiling with `-unittest`, it used to behave similarly to `-allinst`, but now emissions have been significantly reduced. The best benchmark of ~20 projects from Átila showed a 36% reduction in memory usage and compile time. There are still some things that can be culled even more. ### Iain Iain said the most productive thing he'd done over the previous month was removing ~5,000 LOC from DRuntime in the form of redundant bindings. Other than that, he agreed with Martin about the stable branch. ### Vladimir Vladimir opened with a progress report. Back in December, [we discussed migrating our Bugzilla issues to Github](https://forum.dlang.org/post/wnnwxyjtizvhyswwq...@forum.dlang.org). An alternative solution is to [upgrade to Bugzilla Harmony](https://github.com/bugzilla/harmony), a project Vladimir had been contributing to for some time. After that meeting, we agreed that Robert Schadek would move forward with implementing his migration script, while Vladimir would get the new Bugzilla instance set up so we can test it out in the interim. Unfortunately, he reported that he has encountered a blocker. He needs the configuration files for our active Bugzilla instance, but the maintainer has so far been unresponsive. For now, he will continue working on Bugzilla and will keep trying to get the configuration files. (On a side note, this is one reason why we plan to get all of the services in our ecosystem under one roof with access for multiple admins. We're thankful for all of the work the volunteers in our community have put into maintaining services for us, but we've grown well beyond the point where we can live with having a single point of failure for every service in the ecosystem.) ### Ali Ali reported that he finished his [Programming in D](https://ddili.org/ders/d.en/index.html) edits, saying that the physical book is updated as well. ### Razvan Razvan gave us a report on the status of [the leaderboard for the Bugzilla rewards](https://bot.dlang.io/contributor_stats. He added asterisks next to the names of those ineligible to receive rewards, and he also added another page: https://bot.dlang.io/contributor_stats shows overall stats, and https://bot.dlang.io/contributor_stats_cycle shows the stats for the current cycle. He told us he was thinking of theming the page based on the DConf logo and colors from 2016/17 in Berlin, and he has since done so. He also brought up the vision document. In [the discussion thread of
