On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
## Editions
Did you take a look at other languages and how they implement
this feature? May be there is a language that already implements
the approach your are looking for and you don't need to reinvent
a wheel?
What I'd like
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 12:55:28 UTC, Andrey Zherikov
wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
## The future of D
Did you see this video from cppnow'23?
https://youtu.be/VMYVbA2gg0g?si=fMGbnE0FliLwmYgo
It's a good talk about language evolution in
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
## The future of D
Did you see this video from cppnow'23?
https://youtu.be/VMYVbA2gg0g?si=fMGbnE0FliLwmYgo
It's a good talk about language evolution in general.
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
* We should have a tool that automates as much as possible the
migration of modules to new editions
* DMD-as-a-library is a critical component for that tool and
other tools in the ecosystem. We need to put a priority on
working
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:55:22 UTC, Nicholas Wilson
wrote:
I hope you mean "we will keep around old editions as
(potentially command line) selectable options and we can update
the default to be the current"
No. The whole point is that old code will continue to compile
without
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 09:51:29 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
Great summary. From the user side of things I think our best
options are code-d and Visual D, but I haven't heard so much
about Visual D-development plans. Do you know if there are any?
Thanks!
You'll have to ask Rainer about
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 10:31:54 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 09:51:29 UTC, Imperatorn wrote:
Great summary. From the user side of things I think our best
options are code-d and Visual D, but I haven't heard so much
about Visual D-development plans. Do you
In September 2023, we had one planning session. The major item on
the agenda was editions. Other items were a new meeting format,
the Bugzilla to GitHub migration, and the future of D.
## Attendees
The following people attended the session.
* Walter Bright
* Ali Çehreli
* Martin Kinkelin
*
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
## Editions
We had agreed in [the September monthly
meeting](https://forum.dlang.org/post/hetwfhikjqwzlvywm...@forum.dlang.org) the week before that we need to define what editions will look like before we start deciding which
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
In September 2023, we had one planning session. The major item
on the agenda was editions. Other items were a new meeting
format, the Bugzilla to GitHub migration, and the future of D.
[...]
Great summary. From the user side
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 13:25:43 UTC, Andrey Zherikov
wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
* We should have a tool that automates as much as possible the
migration of modules to new editions
* DMD-as-a-library is a critical component for that tool and
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 15:05:34 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
When considering how this should work, I would strongly suggest
it be the default to work with the current edition of the
language. Nobody wants to always have to attribute their module
(or whatever other opt-in
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
* Editions will most likely be implemented via an attribute on
the module declaration. We haven't discussed any details about
that, but for now, just imagine something like `@edition(2024)
module foo;`.
When considering how
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 15:05:34 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
* Editions will most likely be implemented via an attribute on
the module declaration. We haven't discussed any details about
that, but for now, just
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 16:07:26 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
Experience with deprecations has shown people don't want to
take extra steps to make their outdated dependencies compile.
The goal with editions is that you should never have to take
any extra steps to use older code in your
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 17:57:36 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
[snip]
That's not any better. If you have to opt-in to the language as
it exists, people are going to quit immediately. I'm not joking
about this. Imagine spending 2 hours trying to figure out why
your app that is
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 18:01:36 UTC, Guillaume Piolat
wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 15:05:34 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
[...]
+1 and only the introduction of edition has this problem, it's
a one time cost for the ecosystem.
+1 too
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 17:57:36 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 16:07:26 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
[...]
What do we want the first experience with D to be like?
A person trying out D, who writes a one-file simple application
using phobos *does not
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 18:24:09 UTC, Paolo Invernizzi
wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 18:01:36 UTC, Guillaume Piolat
wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 15:05:34 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
[...]
+1 and only the introduction of edition has this problem, it's
a one
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 18:40:58 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote:
[snip]
But for existing libraries, I actually have a potential
solution for that: made dub look at the version tag date.
So, suppose dub determines it wants to use abandoned-library
version 1.4. It knows version 1.4 was
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 15:05:34 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
When considering how this should work, I would strongly suggest
it be the default to work with the current edition of the
language. Nobody wants to always have to attribute their module
(or whatever other opt-in
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 18:40:58 UTC, Adam D Ruppe wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 17:57:36 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
That's not any better. If you have to opt-in to the language
as it exists, people are going to quit immediately.
Counterpoint: javascript's "use strict".
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 19:13:38 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
As I understand the current thinking, that is not what D is
intending to do.
Additional changes don't require a new edition to be enabled,
only breaking changes. I expect editions to mostly subtract code,
by turning
On Thursday, 2 November 2023 at 00:57:23 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
Glad to announce the first beta for the 2.106.0 release, ♥ to
the 33 contributors.
Kind of buried in the changelog (because it's just a few issues
closed) is a really significant change coming to this version:
the much-hated
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 17:57:36 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
That's not any better. If you have to opt-in to the language as
it exists, people are going to quit immediately.
Counterpoint: javascript's "use strict".
On the gripping hand though, I basically never use that and most
On Thursday, 2 November 2023 at 00:57:23 UTC, Iain Buclaw wrote:
Glad to announce the first beta for the 2.106.0 release, ♥ to
the 33 contributors.
http://dlang.org/download.html#dmd_beta
http://dlang.org/changelog/2.106.0.html
As usual please report any bugs at
https://issues.dlang.org
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 21:13:34 UTC, monkyyy wrote:
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
## The future of D
Robert had been itching to talk about our long-term plans for
D. I think most of us understood that he was talking in terms
of language features,
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 17:44:11 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
This might be one of the greatest releases of D ever.
-Steve
I second this.
On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 02:27:42 UTC, Mike Shah wrote:
I just want to echo Steve's sentiment, that it should be easy
for new (and old) D users to start up a project without
worrying about editions.
Actually, this brings another question to mind: what about old
users who keep up
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
## The future of D
Robert had been itching to talk about our long-term plans for
D. I think most of us understood that he was talking in terms
of language features, but in this session, he explained that's
not what he meant. D
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 17:57:36 UTC, Steven
Schveighoffer wrote:
That's not any better. If you have to opt-in to the language as
it exists, people are going to quit immediately. I'm not joking
about this. Imagine spending 2 hours trying to figure out why
your app that is trying out
On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 02:38:38 UTC, Adam D Ruppe
wrote:
On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 02:27:42 UTC, Mike Shah wrote:
I just want to echo Steve's sentiment, that it should be easy
for new (and old) D users to start up a project without
worrying about editions.
Actually, this
On Tuesday, 14 November 2023 at 08:18:20 UTC, Mike Parker wrote:
## Editions
Átila took on the job of writing the proposal and we set
November 1st as the deadline. We've since moved it to
mid-December.
I'm going to refrain from chiming in on this any further for now.
I know what our
On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 02:27:42 UTC, Mike Shah wrote:
I just want to echo Steve's sentiment, that it should be easy
for new (and old) D users to start up a project without
worrying about editions. Reducing friction is incredibly
important for adoption and usage. If the library
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