Re: Up to date documentation on D implementation.
On 07.04.2012 8:51, ReneSac wrote: On Friday, 6 April 2012 at 01:33:10 UTC, Mike Parker wrote: DMD runs just fine on 64-bit Windows. Then why 32 bit Windows (Win32) operating system, such as Windows XP is put as a requirement? This should be corrected: http://dlang.org/dmd-windows.html Anyway, in the mean time I have setup GDC using the latest binaries, and it is working well. The only thing I noticed is that a simple Hello World took several seconds to compile, and ended up with 1.25MB (release, non-debug build)! how about strip it? + MinGW debug info is notoriously bloated (if it was debug build). And I thought that D was fast to compile... But then I discovered that switching to std.c.stdio made the compilation almost instantaneous, and the executable size a slightly more reasonable 408KB. It works, but that isn't really an option, as D strings aren't readily compatible with C strings... I know that the lower limiter in binary size is higher, due to the statically compiled runtime, but this bloat in the std lib for a single function worries me a bit. Is DMD better in this measurement, or is it a limitation of the current D libraries? This may be kinda important latter, as in compression benchmarks, the decompressor size is added in the compressed size to prevent cheating. I don't want a multi-megabyte executable size. -- Dmitry Olshansky
Re: parallel unzip in progress
On Wednesday, 4 April 2012 at 19:41:21 UTC, Jay Norwood wrote: The work-around was to convert all the file operations to use std.stream equivalents, and that worked well, but I see i the bug reports that even that was only working correctly on windows. So I'm on windows, and ok for me, but it would be too bad to limit use to Windows. Seems like stdio runtime support for File operations above 2GB would be a basic expectation for a system language these days. btw, I posted a fix to setTimes that enables it to update the timestamp on directories as well as regular files, along with the source code of this example. I also did some research on why ntfs is such a dog when doing delete operations on hard drives, as well as spending several hours looking at procmon logs, and have decided that the problem is primarily related to multiple accesses in the master file table file for the larger files. There is much discussion on the matter of the MFT getting fragmented on these larger drives, and a couple of interesting proposed tweaks in the second link. http://ixbtlabs.com/articles/ntfs/index3.html http://www.gilsmethod.com/speed-up-vista-with-these-simple-ntfs-tweaks The second link shows you how to reserve a larger area for MFT, and the link below looks like it might be able to clean out any files from the reserved MFT spaces. http://www.mydefrag.com/index.html
Re: Win GUI Single Exe - Newbie
On 2012-04-06 17:37, Jesse Phillips wrote: I can't recommend whether D should or shouldn't be used based on your description. You can build stand alone GUI apps with DFL, and probably DWT. QtD and GtkD likely need their libraries shipped around. Documentation is pretty bad for DFL, but DWT has all the SWT docs and translation isn't bad. Building stand alone executables with DWT works great. DWT doesn't depend on any third party libraries, only on the system libraries. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: D1, D2, Tango, Phobos, Std, Runtime
On 2012-04-06 17:43, H. S. Teoh wrote: The whole Tango vs. Phobos debacle happened during D1 (which is a snapshot of an early version of D), allegedly due to some issues in Phobos. That issue no longer exists in D2, though. Phobos is now *the* standard library in D2. I don't think Tango is fully ported to D2 yet, although I heard someone was working on it, and IIRC there is a development snapshot of it available somewhere. Tango is fully ported to D2. It has some advantages over Phobos, like a faster XML parser, cryptographic related modules and some other modules that Phobos still doesn't have. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: SUL for Posix
On 05/04/2012 14:51, Jacob Carlborg wrote: snip http://dlang.org/phobos/std_getopt.html But it might not do what you want. Where is the code in std.getopt that has any relevance whatsoever to what smjg.libs.util.datetime or smjg.libs.util.commandline is for? Stewart.
GC-less tutorial?
Hi, are there any good tutorials for using D totally without GC, detailing some common pitfalls? One thing on my wishlist would be a way to detect accidental GC allocations resulting from side-effects of every-day operations... generating linking errors would be sufficient for detecting this...
Re: Up to date documentation on D implementation.
On Saturday, 7 April 2012 at 06:21:16 UTC, Dmitry Olshansky wrote: On 07.04.2012 8:51, ReneSac wrote: The only thing I noticed is that a simple Hello World took several seconds to compile, and ended up with 1.25MB (release, non-debug build)! how about strip it? + MinGW debug info is notoriously bloated (if it was debug build). I said it was a non-debug build. The debug build for the Hello World is 7.6MB.
Re: D1, D2, Tango, Phobos, Std, Runtime
On 04/07/2012 07:28 PM, Jacob Carlborg wrote: Tango is fully ported to D2. It has some advantages over Phobos, like a faster XML parser, cryptographic related modules and some other modules that Phobos still doesn't have. Tango is fully ported to D2? Really? You are talking about https://github.com/SiegeLord/Tango-D2, right?
Re: SUL for Posix
On 2012-04-07 14:36, Stewart Gordon wrote: On 05/04/2012 14:51, Jacob Carlborg wrote: snip http://dlang.org/phobos/std_getopt.html But it might not do what you want. Where is the code in std.getopt that has any relevance whatsoever to what smjg.libs.util.datetime or smjg.libs.util.commandline is for? Stewart. Both std.getopt and mjg.libs.util.commandline handle command line arguments? -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: GC-less tutorial?
On 2012-04-07 17:25, Tove wrote: Hi, are there any good tutorials for using D totally without GC, detailing some common pitfalls? One thing on my wishlist would be a way to detect accidental GC allocations resulting from side-effects of every-day operations... generating linking errors would be sufficient for detecting this... The GC is plugable at link time, just remove it and you'll get linker errors when it's used. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: GC-less tutorial?
On 04/07/12 17:25, Tove wrote: Hi, are there any good tutorials for using D totally without GC, detailing some common pitfalls? One thing on my wishlist would be a way to detect accidental GC allocations resulting from side-effects of every-day operations... generating linking errors would be sufficient for detecting this... One problem with this is that the runtime wants to alloc some things before your code gets to run - so you can't just remove the functions from the build. You're left with either modifying the runtime or somehow ignoring the initial allocations (which usually won't cause any problems). If using a custom RT would have been an option you wouldn't be asking these questions (as you could just omit the symbols), so... If your platform supports gdb, try creating a text file trapallocs containing: b gc_malloc b gc_qalloc b gc_calloc b gc_realloc b gc_extend then run gdb -x ./trapallocs -ex run --args ./your_app The debugger will stop at the first allocation and you can then use bt to check what's going on, then c to skip to the next alloc. The first few will come from the runtime and various module ctors, but anything after that will be caused by your code, directly or indirectly. You can also trap just the array ops with eg: b _d_arraycatT b _d_arraycatnT b _d_arrayappendT b _d_arrayappendcTp b _d_newarrayT etc Once the runtime becomes a shared library simpler solutions will be possible, but, until then, it doesn't get much better than this. You need some way to determine which allocations are legal and which are not; doing this w/o a custom runtime is probably not worth the effort... And, yes, the initial runtime allocations could (and should) me made to use a different path; some of them shouldn't happen at all. For example std.datetime alone causes two allocs via _d_newclass, in every D app that imports std.stdio... artur
License for D setup
Greetings, I am getting interested in D. Pls, what License is for D setup. Is it free? Also, what operating systems can D run on? Win7, Mac,? Thanks...Vernon
Re: License for D setup
On Saturday, 7 April 2012 at 17:48:14 UTC, vmars316 wrote: Greetings, I am getting interested in D. Pls, what License is for D setup. Is it free? Also, what operating systems can D run on? Win7, Mac,? Thanks...Vernon Runs on Windows (x86), Linux (x86, 86_64), OS X (x86, x86_64) and FreeBSD (x86, x86_64). The compiler frontend is dual licensed under GPL/Artistic, the backend under a single-user non-redistribution source-available license. The standard and runtime libraries are Boost licensed.
Re: SUL for Posix
On 07/04/2012 17:54, Jacob Carlborg wrote: snip Both std.getopt and mjg.libs.util.commandline handle command line arguments? What's that to do with anything? If the code I need to finish smjg.libs.util.commandline is somewhere in std.getopt, please tell me where exactly it is. If it isn't, then why did you refer me to it? That's like telling someone who's writing a bigint library and struggling to implement multiplication to just look in std.math. After all, they both handle numbers. Stewart.
Re: License for D setup
q66 Wrote: On Saturday, 7 April 2012 at 17:48:14 UTC, vmars316 wrote: Greetings, I am getting interested in D. Runs on Windows (x86), Linux (x86, 86_64), OS X (x86, x86_64) and FreeBSD (x86, x86_64). The compiler frontend is dual licensed under GPL/Artistic, the backend under a single-user non-redistribution source-available license. The standard and runtime libraries are Boost licensed. Sounds good. Is there an up-todate Getting started with D programming? What to download, and where to install it. Also, is there a Visual GUI IDE? I have codeBlocks and GCC installed. Can D use wxWidgets? Evidently, C++ can use wxWidgets, but C can not. Which is why I am here. Thanks for your helps...vm
Re: License for D setup
On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 20:37:16 +0200, vmars316 vmars...@live.com wrote: Sounds good. Is there an up-todate Getting started with D programming? What to download, and where to install it. Also, is there a Visual GUI IDE? I have codeBlocks and GCC installed. Can D use wxWidgets? Evidently, C++ can use wxWidgets, but C can not. Which is why I am here. Thanks for your helps...vm http://dlang.org has a lot of information. Download: http://dlang.org/download.html Tutorial: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1381876 Editors: http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport GUI libs: http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GuiLibraries
Re: SUL for Posix
On 2012-04-07 19:57, Stewart Gordon wrote: On 07/04/2012 17:54, Jacob Carlborg wrote: snip Both std.getopt and mjg.libs.util.commandline handle command line arguments? What's that to do with anything? If the code I need to finish smjg.libs.util.commandline is somewhere in std.getopt, please tell me where exactly it is. If it isn't, then why did you refer me to it? That's like telling someone who's writing a bigint library and struggling to implement multiplication to just look in std.math. After all, they both handle numbers. Stewart. I don't know what your module is supposed to do. -- /Jacob Carlborg
Re: SUL for Posix
On 07/04/2012 20:16, Jacob Carlborg wrote: snip I don't know what your module is supposed to do. Then how about reading its documentation? http://pr.stewartsplace.org.uk/d/sutil/doc/commandline.html If there's something you don't understand about it, this is the issue that needs to be addressed, rather than wildly guessing that some Phobos module provides the answer. Stewart.
Re: License for D setup
On Saturday, 7 April 2012 at 19:03:25 UTC, simendsjo wrote: On Sat, 07 Apr 2012 20:37:16 +0200, vmars316 http://dlang.org has a lot of information. Download: http://dlang.org/download.html Tutorial: http://www.informit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=1381876 Editors: http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?EditorSupport GUI libs: http://prowiki.org/wiki4d/wiki.cgi?GuiLibraries Thanks for the links. Lots of good info, I am a bit overwhelmed. I downloaded dinstaller.exe for windows using this guideline: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSugYSC5hrEfeature=related C:\D Where/how can I tell exactly what is installed? DMG? GTK? QT? But I can't figure out how to get it going. The first thing I would like to do: 1) Run the hello world program. and 2) I want to install a Visual GUI IDE (drag and drop Visual Controls). Can I get some recommendations on What Visual IDEs people are using? Am I using the right term Visual GUI IDE ? Maybe I should start a new Topic for this? Thanks...Vernon
Re: Win GUI Single Exe - Newbie
On Saturday, 7 April 2012 at 12:25:27 UTC, Jacob Carlborg wrote: On 2012-04-06 17:37, Jesse Phillips wrote: Building stand alone executables with DWT works great. DWT doesn't depend on any third party libraries, only on the system libraries. I downloaded and installed dinstaller.exe using this HowTo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSugYSC5hrEfeature=related What would I need to have installed to run DWT? How about VisualD, is it any good? Any recommends would be greatly appreciated. Thanks...vmars
asm stackframe question
As a little learning exercise for D I’m writing a fixed point
library. Part of this is checking standard integer operations for
overflows.
This is the code for adding 2 longs:
int64 add64ov(int64 a, int64 b) {
int64 res;
asm {
mov EAX,a;
mov EDX,a+4 ;
add EAX,b;
adc EDX,b+4 ;
jo overflow ;
mov res,EAX ; // Not optimal: cannot do a ret here because of
stack frame previously not correctly set
mov res+4,EDX;
}
return res;
overflow:
throw new OverflowException(Overflow in 64 bit addition);
}
The detour via the res variable is costly; the standard epilogue
(I probably need a frame pointer for the exception throw to work):
mov ESP, EBP
pop EBP
ret
creates an access violation.
Ideas, anyone?
Static Associative Arrays
I'm not questioning the design, but I would like to know the reason: given the fact that associative arrays are built into the language, why don't we have static associative arrays?
Input from a newbie
Hello D community! :-)
I was looking for a sane, object-oriented,
possible-to-go-low-level programming language, so I decided to
give D a try today.
Here's some feedback on the things I had/have trouble with. I
hope some of this may be valuable for you.
1) First off, I really couldn't figure out were I was supposed to
post this sort of message. Apparently there aren't any mailing
lists (a la Google groups) for D?
2) I couldn't find any good documentation on the build process
and tools I'm supposed to use. Do you guys use standard
Makefiles? Do you have your own build system? Would be really
helpful if that was covered on the website.
3) While your error messages are a lot better than GCCs (gives
you more context, hints about how the compiler interpreted your
buggy program, etc) it wouldn't hurt if you made them a bit more
graphical using colors and markers and such (LLVM like).
4) What's the difference between `... foo(MyObject obj) { ... }`
and `foo(MyObject* obj)`? What are use cases for explicit
pointers when passing objects? That's not covered in the
documentation AFAIT.
5) What's wrong with this program? Is it that `printf` doesn't
understand D strings? If so, how do I use D strings in string
formatting?
import std.stdio;
string foo() { return foobar; }
int main() {
printf(%s\n, foo());
return 0;
}
Jonas
Re: Input from a newbie
On Saturday, 7 April 2012 at 22:21:36 UTC, Jonas wrote:
Hello D community! :-)
I was looking for a sane, object-oriented,
possible-to-go-low-level programming language, so I decided to
give D a try today.
good choice, welcome! ;-)
4) What's the difference between `... foo(MyObject obj) { ...
}` and `foo(MyObject* obj)`? What are use cases for explicit
pointers when passing objects? That's not covered in the
documentation AFAIT.
You normally don't need pointers. Objects are always passed by
reference. So MyObject* obj would be redundant.
5) What's wrong with this program? Is it that `printf` doesn't
understand D strings? If so, how do I use D strings in string
formatting?
import std.stdio;
string foo() { return foobar; }
int main() {
printf(%s\n, foo());
return 0;
}
printf is a C function which expects 0-terminated strings. D's
strings are variable-length arrays and not zero-terminated.
Don't use printf. Try using writef instead. Same arguments.
Stefan
Re: asm stackframe question
Stefan: Ideas, anyone? Use the naked attribute and do it all by yourself? Keep also in mind that D functions that contain ASM don't get inlined in DMD (and probably elsewhere too). Bye, bearophile
Re: Input from a newbie
Jonas:
Hello D community! :-)
Welcome here.
I was looking for a sane, object-oriented,
possible-to-go-low-level programming language, so I decided to
give D a try today.
D supports OOP well enough, but template-based programming seems
equally fit or even more. Also keep in mind that the D GC is not
so efficient, so avoid creating too many small objects, as you do
in Java.
1) First off, I really couldn't figure out were I was supposed
to post this sort of message.
This is the right place.
2) I couldn't find any good documentation on the build process
and tools I'm supposed to use. Do you guys use standard
Makefiles? Do you have your own build system? Would be really
helpful if that was covered on the website.
One tool fit for not huge programs is rdmd. I use bud still,
but it's getting obsolete.
3) While your error messages are a lot better than GCCs (gives
you more context, hints about how the compiler interpreted your
buggy program, etc) it wouldn't hurt if you made them a bit
more graphical using colors and markers and such (LLVM like).
I don't think Walter will love this idea.
4) What's the difference between `... foo(MyObject obj) { ...
}` and `foo(MyObject* obj)`?
If obj is a class instance, then the first syntax is the one you
will find in D programs.
What are use cases for explicit pointers when passing objects?
That's not covered in the documentation AFAIT.
It's not documented because you don't use explicit pointers to
pass objects around. Pointers are used to pass structs around
when you don't want to copy them.
5) What's wrong with this program? Is it that `printf` doesn't
understand D strings? If so, how do I use D strings in string
formatting?
Use write, writef, writeln, writefln for D strings and for
several other D data structures.
Take a look here for many small examples programs in D to do many
different kind of things (not all of them are up to date or fully
correct, but most of them are good, and the wrong ones are being
fixed one after the other):
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:D
Bye,
bearophile
Re: Input from a newbie
On Saturday, 7 April 2012 at 22:21:36 UTC, Jonas wrote:
5) What's wrong with this program? Is it that `printf` doesn't
understand D strings? If so, how do I use D strings in string
formatting?
import std.stdio;
string foo() { return foobar; }
int main() {
printf(%s\n, foo());
return 0;
}
You can use toStringz() from std.string to convert D strings to
null terminated strings when you need to interface with C
functions. But in this case, writeln() would be the simplest
solution. It would be only:
writeln(foo());
Instead of:
printf(%s\n, toStringz(foo()));
I'm a newbie in D too, so correct me if there is anything wrong.
Re: asm stackframe question
On 04/08/2012 12:13 AM, Stefan wrote:
As a little learning exercise for D I’m writing a fixed point library.
Part of this is checking standard integer operations for overflows.
This is the code for adding 2 longs:
int64 add64ov(int64 a, int64 b) {
int64 res;
asm {
mov EAX,a ;
mov EDX,a+4 ;
add EAX,b ;
adc EDX,b+4 ;
jo overflow ;
mov res,EAX ; // Not optimal: cannot do a ret here because of stack
frame previously not correctly set
mov res+4,EDX;
}
return res;
overflow:
throw new OverflowException(Overflow in 64 bit addition);
}
The detour via the res variable is costly; the standard epilogue
(I probably need a frame pointer for the exception throw to work):
mov ESP, EBP
pop EBP
ret
creates an access violation.
Ideas, anyone?
The D calling convention leaves stack cleanup up to the callee. Either
mark your function as extern(C) or use
leave
ret 16
The second option might not be portable across all currently available
compilers though.
Re: Input from a newbie
On Sunday, April 08, 2012 00:21:35 Jonas wrote: 1) First off, I really couldn't figure out were I was supposed to post this sort of message. Apparently there aren't any mailing lists (a la Google groups) for D? These are both newsgroups and mailing lists, and there's forum software on top of it as well. Newsgroups: http://www.digitalmars.com/NewsGroup.html Mailing Lists: http://lists.puremagic.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo Forum: http://forum.dlang.org/ You can pick which interface you want to use. They're all the same thing. It's just a question of how you access it. But no, it's not quite like google groups. - Jonathan M Davis
Re: Static Associative Arrays
On Saturday, April 07, 2012 18:45:40 Caligo wrote: I'm not questioning the design, but I would like to know the reason: given the fact that associative arrays are built into the language, why don't we have static associative arrays? What do you mean my static associative arrays? Are you asking why you can't initialize a static variable which is an AA at compile time? e.g. static int[string] aa = [hello ; 7, world, 13]; //error That's because that would involve allocating memory at compile time which would then somehow have to be around at runtime. And that doesn't work right now. Classes have the same problem. You have to initialize them at runtime. I believe that dynamic arrays are the only ones that work with that right now, and that's because it's a difficult problem. Obviously, none of the memory allocated at compile time can persist to runtime, so there is no simple solution. At some point, it will probably be possible, but not right now. You _should_ be able to use them in CTFE, but they can't be assigned to anything that will persist until runtime. The solution is to use static constructors to initialize AAs and class references at runtime. Now, if you're talking about something else, I have no idea what you mean by static AAs. - Jonathan M Davis
string concatenation
I have a wchar[] and I want to convert it to UTF8
then append a string. This is my code.
import std.c.windows.windows;
import std.string;
import std.utf;
int main()
{
wchar[100] v;
v[0] = 'H';
v[1] = 'e';
v[2] = 'l';
v[3] = 'l';
v[4] = 'o';
v[5] = 0;
string s = toUTF8(v) ~ , world!;
MessageBoxA(null, s.toStringz, myapp, MB_OK);
return 0;
}
I want Hello, world!, but the result is Hello only. Please help me.
Re: string concatenation
On Sunday, April 08, 2012 07:08:09 dnewbie wrote:
I have a wchar[] and I want to convert it to UTF8
then append a string. This is my code.
import std.c.windows.windows;
import std.string;
import std.utf;
int main()
{
wchar[100] v;
v[0] = 'H';
v[1] = 'e';
v[2] = 'l';
v[3] = 'l';
v[4] = 'o';
v[5] = 0;
string s = toUTF8(v) ~ , world!;
MessageBoxA(null, s.toStringz, myapp, MB_OK);
return 0;
}
I want Hello, world!, but the result is Hello only. Please help me.
D strings are not null-terminated, so v[5] = 0 doesn't do anything to
terminate that string. The whole point of toStringz is to put a null character
on the end of a string (and allocate a new string if need be) and return a
pointer to it. C code will then use the null character to indicate the end of
the string, but D won't.
What you've done with
string s = toUTF8(v) ~ , world!;
is create a string that is
['H', 'e', 'l', 'l', 'o', '\0', '\0', '\0', ...] (all of the characters up to
the v[99] are '\0')
and append
[',', ' ', 'w', 'o', 'r', 'l', 'd', '!']
to it. The result is a string whith is 108 characters long with a ton of null
characters in the middle of it. When you call toStringz on it, it may or may
not allocate a new string, but in the end, you have a string which is 109
characters long with the last character being '\0' (still with all of the null
characters in the middle) which you get an immutable char* pointing to.
So, when the C code operates on it, it naturally stops processing when it hits
the first null character, since that's how C determines the end of a string.
You can embed null characters in a string and expect C to operate on the whole
thing. And since D strings aren't null-terminated, you can't expect that
setting any of it their elements to null will do anything to terminate the
string in D or stop D functions from operating on the whole string. You have
to slice the static wchar array with the exact elements that you want if you
intend to terminate it before its end.
- Jonathan M Davis
Re: Static Associative Arrays
On Sat, Apr 07, 2012 at 09:01:40PM -0700, Jonathan M Davis wrote: On Saturday, April 07, 2012 18:45:40 Caligo wrote: I'm not questioning the design, but I would like to know the reason: given the fact that associative arrays are built into the language, why don't we have static associative arrays? What do you mean my static associative arrays? Are you asking why you can't initialize a static variable which is an AA at compile time? e.g. static int[string] aa = [hello ; 7, world, 13]; //error That's because that would involve allocating memory at compile time which would then somehow have to be around at runtime. And that doesn't work right now. Classes have the same problem. You have to initialize them at runtime. I believe that dynamic arrays are the only ones that work with that right now, and that's because it's a difficult problem. Obviously, none of the memory allocated at compile time can persist to runtime, so there is no simple solution. At some point, it will probably be possible, but not right now. You _should_ be able to use them in CTFE, but they can't be assigned to anything that will persist until runtime. [...] I've thought of a way to use CTFE to generate static AA's, but I appear to be running into a CTFE bug or quirk that causes it not to work. Basically, the idea is to use CTFE to generate a series of static struct declarations (each struct being an AA slot) with precomputed references between them. Obviously, the resulting AA must be immutable, but in principle this should allow implementation of static AA's. But I'm running into a weird issue where using a string mixin with a string constant containing the struct definitions work correctly, but if the string is generated piecewise by CTFE code then all references turn into null. I'll have to massage the code a bit into a minimal test case and open an issue on the bugtracker. T -- Windows 95 was a joke, and Windows 98 was the punchline.
