Re: [OT] What kind of Editor, IDE you are using and which one do you like for D language?
On Tuesday, 24 December 2019 at 17:52:20 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: I just can't wait to see some poor sod attempt to reimplement a modern IDE in Javascript and succeed at reproducing 1980's IDE speeds and (lack of) quality. Texas Instruments has already done this with its Code Composer Studio IDE https://dev.ti.com/ide. I have used the desktop version (an Eclipse based IDE) but not the cloud based version, so I can't comment on its speed. More info at http://www.ti.com/design-resources/embedded-development/ccs-development-tools.html#ccs-cloud Dennis Cote
Re: [OT] What kind of Editor, IDE you are using and which one do you like for D language?
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 10:18:49AM +, Russel Winder via Surely a hardcore retro guy would be using vi not vim? On Tuesday, 24 December 2019 at 17:52:20 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: Haha, well, a *real* hardcore retro guy would be using a magnet, a pin, and a *really* steady hand, to flip individual bits on an exposed harddisk platter to create the executable in the filesystem directly, one bit at a time. Of course, one could also just use emacs: You guys crack me up. :)
Re: [OT] What kind of Editor, IDE you are using and which one do you like for D language?
On 12/24/19 5:18 AM, Russel Winder wrote: On Mon, 2019-12-23 at 08:09 -0800, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote: […] No idea, I use vanilla vim (not even with syntax highlighting -- I'm a hardcore retro guy). Surely a hardcore retro guy would be using vi not vim? Indeed wouldn't a real hardcore retro guy be using ed? Pt. Real hardcore users use ed. When I log into my Xenix system with my 110 baud teletype, both vi *and* Emacs are just too damn slow. They print useless messages like, 'C-h for help' and '"foo" File is read only'. So I use the editor that doesn't waste my VALUABLE time. Ed, man! !man ed ED(1) UNIX Programmer's Manual ED(1) NAME ed - text editor SYNOPSIS ed [ - ] [ -x ] [ name ] DESCRIPTION Ed is the standard text editor. - Computer Scientists love ed, not just because it comes first alphabetically, but because it's the standard. Everyone else loves ed because it's ED! "Ed is the standard text editor." And ed doesn't waste space on my Timex Sinclair. Just look: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 24 Oct 29 1929 /bin/ed -rwxr-xr-t 4 root 1310720 Jan 1 1970 /usr/ucb/vi -rwxr-xr-x 1 root 5.89824e37 Oct 22 1990 /usr/bin/emacs Of course, on the system *I* administrate, vi is symlinked to ed. Emacs has been replaced by a shell script which 1) Generates a syslog message at level LOG_EMERG; 2) reduces the user's disk quota by 100K; and 3) RUNS ED!! "Ed is the standard text editor." Let's look at a typical novice's session with the mighty ed: golem> ed ? help ? ? ? quit ? exit ? bye ? hello? ? eat flaming death ? ^C ? ^C ? ^D ? --- Note the consistent user interface and error reportage. Ed is generous enough to flag errors, yet prudent enough not to overwhelm the novice with verbosity. "Ed is the standard text editor." Ed, the greatest WYGIWYG editor of all. ED IS THE TRUE PATH TO NIRVANA! ED HAS BEEN THE CHOICE OF EDUCATED AND IGNORANT ALIKE FOR CENTURIES! ED WILL NOT CORRUPT YOUR PRECIOUS BODILY FLUIDS!! ED IS THE STANDARD TEXT EDITOR! ED MAKES THE SUN SHINE AND THE BIRDS SING AND THE GRASS GREEN!! When I use an editor, I don't want eight extra KILOBYTES of worthless help screens and cursor positioning code! I just want an EDitor!! Not a "viitor". Not a "emacsitor". Those aren't even WORDS ED! ED! ED IS THE STANDARD!!! TEXT EDITOR. When IBM, in its ever-present omnipotence, needed to base their "edlin" on a UNIX standard, did they mimic vi? No. Emacs? Surely you jest. They chose the most karmic editor of all. The standard. Ed is for those who can *remember* what they are working on. If you are an idiot, you should use Emacs. If you are an Emacs, you should not be vi. If you use ED, you are on THE PATH TO REDEMPTION. THE SO-CALLED "VISUAL" EDITORS HAVE BEEN PLACED HERE BY ED TO TEMPT THE FAITHLESS. DO NOT GIVE IN!!! THE MIGHTY ED HAS SPOKEN!!! -- Miquel van Smoorenburg | Our vision is to speed up time, miqu...@cistron.nl | eventually eliminating it. I left in the byline above, because I don't want to take credit ;) -Steve
Re: [OT] What kind of Editor, IDE you are using and which one do you like for D language?
On Tue, 2019-12-24 at 09:52 -0800, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote: > On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 10:18:49AM +, Russel Winder via > Digitalmars-d-learn wrote: […] > Haha, well, a *real* hardcore retro guy would be using a magnet, a > pin, > and a *really* steady hand, to flip individual bits on an exposed > harddisk platter to create the executable in the filesystem directly, > one bit at a time. > > Of course, one could also just use emacs: > > https://xkcd.com/378/ > > :-D One always returns to using Emacs for text editing – it is the One True Editor™ (and kitchen sink). […] > It wasn't so much wrong highlighting for me, it was the fact that it > was > highlighted at all. I find the kaleidoscopic colors extremely > distracting and disruptive to my focusing on the textual content of > the > code. Not to mention that the colors usually clash horribly with my > chosen foreground/background color scheme in my terminal, which only > adds unreadable bits of text to the problem. Emacs and JetBrains CLion seem to work fine for me in both light-on- dark and dark-on-light mode, so syntax highlighting works for me for the editors I use. I keep trying VIM, Atom, VSCode, SublimeText, Geany, etc. from time to time, but I get bored trying to get them set up to be even remotely sensible and just go back to Emacs. […] > > Actually, I wouldn't mind a syntax-oriented editor, if one could be > made > that wasn't artificially restrictive in terms of editing various > different languages and various different flavors of different > languages, such that it could be used as a general tool. There is a movement to try and bring back what could be described as SOEs, but I am not seeing that much traction as yet. The incumbent editors that use vast quantities of CPU to reconstruct ASTs on the fly seem to dominate mindset. […] > > This madness is nothing compared to the utter, gibbering insanity of > modern web design, in which modern 8-core CPUs with GHz speeds and > GBs > of memory run dead-simple applications like word processors at the > *same* speeds (if not worse!) as WordStar would run back in 1980 on > an 8 > *Hz* CPU with 64KB of RAM. With exactly the same lag between > keystrokes, and the same (lack of) reliability requiring frequent > backups and incessant restarting. > > Now *that* I call a mad, mad world. The madness of IDEs parsing and > reparsing the same AST over and over again umpteen times per second > doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of *this* madness. I just > can't wait to see some poor sod attempt to reimplement a modern IDE > in > Javascript and succeed at reproducing 1980's IDE speeds and (lack of) > quality. And of course the masses would slobber all over it and hail > it > as "progress". The browser king has no clothes, and everybody sees > invisible. I can only agree with this rant. The modern world of software has increasingly become about doing less and less useful to the end user with more and more hardware resources. -- Russel. === Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [OT] What kind of Editor, IDE you are using and which one do you like for D language?
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 07:46:27PM +, Adam D. Ruppe via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote: [...] > I just got sick of ls printing green on white and hurting my eyes. Or > blue on black. Haha, one of the first things I do upon installing a new Linux system is to turn off ls colors. :-D Hurts the eyes and grates the nerves. > > With exactly the same lag between keystrokes, and the same (lack of) > > reliability requiring frequent backups and incessant restarting. > > lol lag between keystrokes is so much worse now than it was in the day Lol it's true... and yet people still slobber all over "browser apps" like they are some kind of revolutionary thing. More like devolutionary, I say. T -- Без труда не выловишь и рыбку из пруда.
Re: [OT] What kind of Editor, IDE you are using and which one do you like for D language?
On Tuesday, 24 December 2019 at 17:52:20 UTC, H. S. Teoh wrote: Not to mention that the colors usually clash horribly with my chosen foreground/background color scheme in my terminal, which only adds unreadable bits of text to the problem. This is one of the reasons why I made a custom terminal emulator. Mine sees the colors as just suggestions, and adjusts them based on what is under it to maintain readability. I just got sick of ls printing green on white and hurting my eyes. Or blue on black. With exactly the same lag between keystrokes, and the same (lack of) reliability requiring frequent backups and incessant restarting. lol lag between keystrokes is so much worse now than it was in the day
Re: [OT] What kind of Editor, IDE you are using and which one do you like for D language?
On Tue, Dec 24, 2019 at 10:18:49AM +, Russel Winder via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote: > On Mon, 2019-12-23 at 08:09 -0800, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d-learn > wrote: > […] > > No idea, I use vanilla vim (not even with syntax highlighting -- I'm > > a hardcore retro guy). > > Surely a hardcore retro guy would be using vi not vim? Indeed wouldn't > a real hardcore retro guy be using ed? > > :-) Haha, well, a *real* hardcore retro guy would be using a magnet, a pin, and a *really* steady hand, to flip individual bits on an exposed harddisk platter to create the executable in the filesystem directly, one bit at a time. Of course, one could also just use emacs: https://xkcd.com/378/ :-D > I used to be anti syntax highlighting in editors, but it was because > the highlighting was usually crap or worse wrong. Once I started using > syntax highlighting where the highlighting was correct with respect to > the language definition, I found it indispensable. It wasn't so much wrong highlighting for me, it was the fact that it was highlighted at all. I find the kaleidoscopic colors extremely distracting and disruptive to my focusing on the textual content of the code. Not to mention that the colors usually clash horribly with my chosen foreground/background color scheme in my terminal, which only adds unreadable bits of text to the problem. > Of course the real problem is that we store text of code rather than > AST of the code, but that war got lost in the 1980s when syntax > oriented editors were rejected in favour of text editors. Actually, I wouldn't mind a syntax-oriented editor, if one could be made that wasn't artificially restrictive in terms of editing various different languages and various different flavors of different languages, such that it could be used as a general tool. > Now editors and IDE spend all their CPU cycles reconstructing and > maintaining the AST of the code from the text representation. Yet another reason to avoid syntax highlighting altogether. ;-) > It's a mad, mad, mad world. This madness is nothing compared to the utter, gibbering insanity of modern web design, in which modern 8-core CPUs with GHz speeds and GBs of memory run dead-simple applications like word processors at the *same* speeds (if not worse!) as WordStar would run back in 1980 on an 8 *Hz* CPU with 64KB of RAM. With exactly the same lag between keystrokes, and the same (lack of) reliability requiring frequent backups and incessant restarting. Now *that* I call a mad, mad world. The madness of IDEs parsing and reparsing the same AST over and over again umpteen times per second doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of *this* madness. I just can't wait to see some poor sod attempt to reimplement a modern IDE in Javascript and succeed at reproducing 1980's IDE speeds and (lack of) quality. And of course the masses would slobber all over it and hail it as "progress". The browser king has no clothes, and everybody sees invisible. T -- If you want to solve a problem, you need to address its root cause, not just its symptoms. Otherwise it's like treating cancer with Tylenol...
Re: [OT] What kind of Editor, IDE you are using and which one do you like for D language?
On Mon, 2019-12-23 at 08:09 -0800, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d-learn wrote: […] > > No idea, I use vanilla vim (not even with syntax highlighting -- I'm > a > hardcore retro guy). Surely a hardcore retro guy would be using vi not vim? Indeed wouldn't a real hardcore retro guy be using ed? :-) I used to be anti syntax highlighting in editors, but it was because the highlighting was usually crap or worse wrong. Once I started using syntax highlighting where the highlighting was correct with respect to the language definition, I found it indispensable. Of course the real problem is that we store text of code rather than AST of the code, but that war got lost in the 1980s when syntax oriented editors were rejected in favour of text editors. Now editors and IDE spend all their CPU cycles reconstructing and maintaining the AST of the code from the text representation. It's a mad, mad, mad world. -- Russel. === Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 London SW11 1EN, UK w: www.russel.org.uk signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part
