Re: on interfacing w/C++

2014-04-15 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
Huh? Do methods work now? Since when? We still have no member function pointers either. On 15 April 2014 14:25, Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Jacob Carlborg wrote in message news:lig73r$nvn$1...@digitalmars.com... You do know D supports extern(C++)?

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-16 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 16 April 2014 19:03, JN via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.comwrote: On Wednesday, 16 April 2014 at 01:57:29 UTC, Mike wrote: I don't believe users hesitant to use D will suddenly come to D now that there is a @nogc attribute. I also don't believe they want to avoid the GC, even

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-16 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 03:37, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 4/16/2014 4:50 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: I am convinced that ARC would be acceptable, ARC has very serious problems with bloat and performance. This is the first I've heard

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-16 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 08:42, Adam Wilson via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 04:50:51 -0700, Manu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: I am convinced that ARC would be acceptable, and I've never heard anyone suggest any proposal/fantasy

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-16 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 09:20, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 4/16/2014 3:42 PM, Adam Wilson wrote: ARC may in fact be the most advantageous for a specific use case, but that in no way means that all use cases will see a performance improvement, and in all

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-16 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 10:06, Michel Fortin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 2014-04-16 23:20:07 +, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com said: On 4/16/2014 3:42 PM, Adam Wilson wrote: ARC may in fact be the most advantageous for a specific use case, but that in

Knowledge of managed memory pointers

2014-04-17 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
It occurs to me that a central issue regarding the memory management debate, and a major limiting factor with respect to options, is the fact that, currently, it's impossible to tell a raw pointer apart from a gc pointer. Is this is a problem worth solving? And would it be as big an enabler to

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-17 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 18:22, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Of course it was sold at WWDC as ARC is better than GC and not as ARC is better than the crappy GC implementation we have done. The argument is, GC is not appropriate for various classes of software. It

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-17 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 18:52, via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.comwrote: On Thursday, 17 April 2014 at 08:22:32 UTC, Paulo Pinto wrote: Of course it was sold at WWDC as ARC is better than GC and not as ARC is better than the crappy GC implementation we have done. I have never seen a

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-17 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 21:57, John Colvin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thursday, 17 April 2014 at 11:31:52 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: ARC offers a solution that is usable by all parties. Is this a proven statement? If that paper is right then ARC with cycle

Re: Knowledge of managed memory pointers

2014-04-17 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 18:20, Kagamin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: You can do anything, what fits your task, see RefCounted and Unique for an example on how to write smart pointers. ... what? I don't think you understood my post. void f(void* ptr) { // was ptr allocated

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-17 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 22:28, Michel Fortin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 2014-04-17 03:13:48 +, Manu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com said: Obviously, a critical part of ARC is the compilers ability to reduce redundant inc/dec sequences. At which

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-17 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 23:17, via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.comwrote: On Thursday, 17 April 2014 at 12:20:06 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: See, I just don't find managed memory incompatible with 'low level' realtime or embedded code, even on tiny microcontrollers in principle

Re: Knowledge of managed memory pointers

2014-04-17 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 23:14, Orvid King via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: I think the biggest advantage to this distinction would really be the cross-language API's, the GC can determine which pointers it owns, although I don't believe it currently exposes this capability. But

Re: Knowledge of managed memory pointers

2014-04-17 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 18 April 2014 04:10, Kagamin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thursday, 17 April 2014 at 12:39:59 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: void f(void* ptr) { // was ptr allocated with malloc, or new? Then what? Whatever. inc/dec ref, or not. core.memory.addRoot

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-18 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 17 April 2014 18:35, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 4/16/2014 8:13 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 17 April 2014 03:37, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com mailto:digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: ARC has very

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-18 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 18 April 2014 16:16, via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.comwrote: On Friday, 18 April 2014 at 00:11:28 UTC, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d wrote: I thought that whole point of *A*RC is for the compiler to know when ref count updates can be skipped? Or are you saying this is

Re: Knowledge of managed memory pointers

2014-04-18 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 18 April 2014 20:10, Tove via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.comwrote: On Friday, 18 April 2014 at 00:01:25 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 18 April 2014 04:10, Kagamin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thursday, 17 April 2014 at 12:39:59 UTC, Manu

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-19 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 20 April 2014 06:56, via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.comwrote: I think it would be useful to be able to mark structs as @nogc_alloc or something similar. Interpretation: this struct and any data directly reachable from it is guaranteed to not be GC allocated. Then a precise

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-19 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 20 April 2014 14:33, via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.comwrote: On Sunday, 20 April 2014 at 00:59:26 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Interpretation: this struct and any data directly reachable from it is guaranteed to not be GC allocated. Then a precise collector could avoid

Re: [OT] from YourNameHere via Digitalmars-d

2014-04-21 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 22 April 2014 14:54, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 4/21/2014 8:59 PM, Rikki Cattermole wrote: I still haven't worked out how to even use a newsreader with the ntp server. I'm still relying on the web interface. So I'm definitely not alone in seeing

Package permission and symbol resolution

2014-04-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
So I've restructured one of my projects which is a C library bindings, but also with some D-ification. I separated it into 2 parts, the raw binding parts, and the api enhancements, the module structure looks like this: The Raw C binding part: pkg/c/module.d: pkg.c.module; struct

Re: Package permission and symbol resolution

2014-04-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 22 April 2014 18:07, Manu turkey...@gmail.com wrote: So I've restructured one of my projects which is a C library bindings, but also with some D-ification. I separated it into 2 parts, the raw binding parts, and the api enhancements, the module structure looks like this: The Raw C

Re: [OT] from YourNameHere via Digitalmars-d

2014-04-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 22 April 2014 19:00, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 4/21/2014 10:49 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: I like gmail. I've been using it for the better part of 10 years, and I can access it from anywhere. Installing client software to read email feels

Re: Package permission and symbol resolution

2014-04-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 22 April 2014 19:16, John Colvin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 22 April 2014 at 08:07:32 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: So I've restructured one of my projects which is a C library bindings, but also with some D-ification. I separated it into 2 parts

Re: Package permission and symbol resolution

2014-04-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 22 April 2014 21:00, Manu turkey...@gmail.com wrote: On 22 April 2014 19:16, John Colvin via Digitalmars-d The rest of your problems are, I think, explained here: http://dlang.org/hijack.html Ah ha! in order to overload functions from multiple modules together, an alias statement is used

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-23 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 22 April 2014 05:03, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 4/21/2014 10:57 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 13:28:24 -0400, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: On 4/21/2014 5:00 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: Total

Re: DIP60: @nogc attribute

2014-04-23 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 23 April 2014 04:28, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tue, 22 Apr 2014 14:12:17 -0400, Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: On 4/22/2014 6:18 AM, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On Mon, 21 Apr 2014 19:02:53 -0400, Walter Bright

Re: DIP(?) Warning to facilitate porting to other archs

2014-05-01 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 1 May 2014 21:17, Temtaime via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Hi everyone. I think it's need to have -w64(or other name, offers ?) flag that warns if code may not compile on other archs. Example: size_t a; uint b = a; // ok on 32 without a warning but fail on 64 with

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-05 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 4 May 2014 19:00, via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Saturday, 3 May 2014 at 11:12:56 UTC, Michel Fortin wrote: On 2014-05-01 17:35:36 +, Marc Schütz schue...@gmx.net said: Maybe the language should have some way to distinguish between GC-managed and

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-05 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 5 May 2014 14:09, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/4/14, 5:38 PM, Caligo via Digitalmars-d wrote: On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 12:22 AM, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com mailto:digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Here

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-05 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 3 May 2014 18:49, Benjamin Thaut via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Am 30.04.2014 22:21, schrieb Andrei Alexandrescu: Walter and I have had a long chat in which we figured our current offering of abstractions could be improved. Here are some thoughts. There's a lot of

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-05 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 6 May 2014 13:51, HaraldZealot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: That said, I really want my destructors, and would be very upset to see them go. So... ARC? Manu, can you direct me what is ARC? This abbreviation is very misgooglly. Automatic reference counting, and

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 6 May 2014 14:09, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/5/14, 8:19 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 5 May 2014 14:09, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: This is nice, but on the face of it it's just

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 6 May 2014 16:28, Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 06/05/14 05:51, HaraldZealot wrote: Manu, can you direct me what is ARC? This abbreviation is very misgooglly. Automatic Reference Counting. Like regular RC but the compiler automatically inserts

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 6 May 2014 16:33, Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 06/05/14 08:07, HaraldZealot wrote: I notice that I view only part of problem, can anybody link or describe me completely state and problems of current garbage collection and other resource management?

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 6 May 2014 17:16, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 6 May 2014 at 03:40:47 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Java Azul VM GC was already handling 1 TB in 2010. Is D compatible with this GC? And how does it go in an environment with 128mb of ram

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 6 May 2014 21:39, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 6 May 2014 at 10:58:14 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 6 May 2014 16:33, Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 06/05/14 08:07, HaraldZealot wrote: I

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 6 May 2014 22:30, Michel Fortin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 2014-05-06 12:04:55 +, Manu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com said: Notably, I didn't say 'phones'. Although I think they do generally fall into this category, I think they're drifting

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 6 May 2014 22:17, Wyatt via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 6 May 2014 at 06:39:45 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: The Obj-C thing as an example. Granted, it's a huge feature and has extensive implications. The Authors have said themselves that they agree

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 7 May 2014 01:46, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/5/14, 11:39 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 6 May 2014 14:09, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/5/14, 8:19 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
Missed one... _ On 7 May 2014 01:46, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/5/14, 11:39 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Well, in phobos, just approve 'exp' which has been raised countless times. I've got contributions that should be in exp, but instead

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 7 May 2014 03:32, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 6 May 2014 at 15:52:10 UTC, John Colvin wrote: On Tuesday, 6 May 2014 at 15:48:59 UTC, Andrei Alexandrescu I can't seem to find simd on our dub site http://code.dlang.org/search?q=simd. Did you put

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 7 May 2014 04:10, w0rp via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 6 May 2014 at 17:57:11 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: As I said before, dub has never even occurred to me. No windows user is likely to naturally think to use a package manager :/ It's sitting in my

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 7 May 2014 04:55, Jacob Carlborg via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 2014-05-06 08:39, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: 's at least one DIP which received little attention afaict, it's an example of something that I think would probably manifest into code

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-06 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 7 May 2014 08:07, Xavier Bigand via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Le 06/05/2014 13:39, Paulo Pinto a écrit : Android works well, I love my nexus, it proves to me that it's possible to create really smooth applications based completely on Java (not 100% of that) but if we

No VisualStudio project for phobos?

2014-05-08 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
DMD has a VS project, is there an objection to one for phobos too?

Re: No VisualStudio project for phobos?

2014-05-08 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 8 May 2014 23:58, Orvid King via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: It would mean that a VisualD project for druntime, as well as a VisualC++ project for zlib, would be required. The issue I see is that while I know that Mono-D can open VisualD project files, as well as dub

Re: No VisualStudio project for phobos?

2014-05-08 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 9 May 2014 00:27, Manu turkey...@gmail.com wrote: On 8 May 2014 23:58, Orvid King via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: It would mean that a VisualD project for druntime, as well as a VisualC++ project for zlib, would be required. The issue I see is that while I know that

Re: No VisualStudio project for phobos?

2014-05-08 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 9 May 2014 01:38, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thursday, 8 May 2014 at 15:23:35 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Trying to understand this bit... why is $(ZLIB) $(DRUNTIMELIB) provided to the compiler? It's building the phobos lib right, not linking

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-09 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 8 May 2014 16:11, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 7 May 2014 at 20:09:07 UTC, Xavier Bigand wrote: 4MB?! That is a world of pleasure. Try to cram a Z80 application into 48 KB. :) I've never heard of a Z80 program running a tracing GC. (I have

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 10 May 2014 07:05, Wyatt via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Friday, 9 May 2014 at 16:12:00 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: I've been digging into research on the subject while I wait for test scripts to run, and my gut feeling is it's definitely possible to get GC

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 10 May 2014 19:07, Xavier Bigand via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Le 10/05/2014 01:31, Francesco Cattoglio a écrit : On Friday, 9 May 2014 at 21:05:18 UTC, Wyatt wrote: But conversely, Manu, something has been bothering me: aren't you restricted from using most

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 10 May 2014 16:53, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Am 10.05.2014 08:27, schrieb Manu via Digitalmars-d: On 10 May 2014 07:05, Wyatt via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Friday, 9 May 2014 at 16:12:00 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 10 May 2014 17:08, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/9/14, 11:27 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: ARC overhead would have no meaningful impact on performance, GC may potentially freeze execution. I am certain I would never notice ARC overhead

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 10 May 2014 19:43, Xavier Bigand via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: I don't know well WP8 models, but this one must run smoothly : http://www.nokia.com/fr-fr/mobiles/telephone-portable/lumia1320/fiche-technique/ Just like Android phones, the battery is huge : 3400mAh It's

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 00:23, Peter Alexander via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Saturday, 10 May 2014 at 13:50:05 UTC, Dicebot wrote: On Saturday, 10 May 2014 at 13:33:40 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: It should be noted that reference counting can also cause large stalls

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 00:20, Peter Alexander via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Saturday, 10 May 2014 at 13:33:40 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 10 May 2014 17:08, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/9/14, 11:27 PM, Manu via

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 01:44, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Am 10.05.2014 15:37, schrieb Manu via Digitalmars-d: On 10 May 2014 19:43, Xavier Bigand via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: I don't know well WP8 models, but this one must run smoothly

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 02:15, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/10/14, 6:33 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 10 May 2014 17:08, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/9/14, 11:27 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 08:40, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:54 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: I can't think of many situations where that wouldn't be the case. What sort of software is it not an issue to experience intermittent freezing? Batch

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 03:54, Andrei Alexandrescu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/10/14, 10:03 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: There is a black/white distinction though. It you can't make the freezing go away, it is _incompatible_ with certain classes of software. I don't

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 08:40, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:54 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: Recall too that D has significant opportunity to improve on ARC as implemented by other languages, You're essentially arguing that one is easy pickings

Re: radical ideas about GC and ARC : need to be time driven?

2014-05-10 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 05:39, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Sat, May 10, 2014 at 09:16:54PM +0200, Xavier Bigand via Digitalmars-d wrote: - Same question if D migrate to ARC? I highly doubt D will migrate to ARC. ARC will probably become *possible*, but some

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-11 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 14:57, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/10/2014 8:58 PM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: This is truly a niche usage case though, Come on! Like about 80% of the programs on any linux box? Like the OCR program I run? A payroll processing

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-11 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 11 May 2014 17:52, Benjamin Thaut via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Am 06.05.2014 05:40, schrieb Manu via Digitalmars-d: I support the notion that if the GC isn't removed as a foundational feature of D, then destructors should probably be removed from D. That said, I

Re: radical ideas about GC and ARC : need to be time driven?

2014-05-11 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 12 May 2014 02:38, Marco Leise via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Am Sun, 11 May 2014 14:52:50 +1000 schrieb Manu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com: On 11 May 2014 05:39, H. S. Teoh via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Sat, May 10, 2014

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 12 May 2014 10:50, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: They are using Rust to write a safe and performant web browser while developing the language. Sure. But that browser hasn't been released yet. Consider that I've written safe and performant code in D,

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 12 May 2014 17:24, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Monday, 12 May 2014 at 07:12:29 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: You haven't told me how I can use the GC (or whatever memory management scheme, I really don't care) in the low frequency code (again, read

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 12 May 2014 18:45, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/12/2014 12:12 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: What? You've never offered me a practical solution. I have, you've just rejected them. What do I do? 1. you can simply do C++ style memory

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 May 2014 02:16, bearophile via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Manu: we are an industry in desperate need of salvation, it's LONG overdue, and I want something that actually works well for us, not a crappy set of compromises because the language has a fundamental

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 May 2014 03:17, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/12/2014 4:35 AM, bearophile wrote: I suggested to add an optional method named onGC to unions that if present is called at run-time by the GC to know what's the real type of stored data, to make

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 May 2014 03:14, Dicebot via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Monday, 12 May 2014 at 17:03:41 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: But D is *so close*... and I like it! _ I have to say that this discussion has certainly left me somewhat intrigued by Rust though. I've

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 May 2014 03:44, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/12/2014 10:31 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: I just searched through my code, and 7 out of 12 unions had pointers. Relative number of objects with unions, not declarations with unions! Ah, well

Re: More radical ideas about gc and reference counting

2014-05-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 May 2014 04:07, Kapps via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Monday, 12 May 2014 at 16:03:28 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: How long is a collect liable to take in the event the GC threads need to collect? Am I likely to lose my service threads for 100s

Re: borrowed pointers vs ref

2014-05-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 May 2014 06:36, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: It's been brought up more than once that the 'scope' storage class is an unimplemented borrowed pointer. But thinking a bit more along those lines, actually 'ref' fills the role of a borrowed pointer. One

Re: radical ideas about GC and ARC : need to be time driven?

2014-05-13 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 May 2014 14:39, Kagamin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Saturday, 10 May 2014 at 19:17:02 UTC, Xavier Bigand wrote: My concerns as Dlang user are : - Even if GC is the solution, how long I need suffer with destructor's issues (calls order)? What issues do you

Re: radical ideas about GC and ARC : need to be time driven?

2014-05-13 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 May 2014 21:42, Kagamin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 13 May 2014 at 07:42:26 UTC, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: The other topic is still relevant to me too however (and many others). We still need to solve the problem with destructors. I agree

Re: 64-bit DMD for windows?

2014-05-13 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 May 2014 23:24, steven kladitis via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Tuesday, 13 May 2014 at 13:16:50 UTC, steven kladitis wrote: On Monday, 12 May 2014 at 23:21:28 UTC, Nick Sabalausky wrote: On 5/12/2014 5:01 PM, Andrej Mitrovic via Digitalmars-d wrote: On

Re: New opportunities for D = ASM.js

2014-05-13 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 14 May 2014 04:22, Paulo Pinto via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Am 13.05.2014 20:18, schrieb Nick Sabalausky: On 5/13/2014 1:38 PM, Etienne wrote: and for platforms like the Chrome OS that only run JS/HTML, it's also going to be an important tool. I thought Chrome

Re: Memory allocation purity

2014-05-15 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 15 May 2014 10:50, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/14/2014 5:03 PM, Meta wrote: Allocating memory through new and malloc should always be pure, I think, because failure either returns null in malloc's case, malloc cannot be pure if, with the same

Re: Memory allocation purity

2014-05-15 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 15 May 2014 22:30, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thu, 15 May 2014 07:52:20 -0400, Manu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 15 May 2014 10:50, Walter Bright via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 5/14/2014

Re: Memory allocation purity

2014-05-15 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 15 May 2014 23:47, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thu, 15 May 2014 09:40:03 -0400, Manu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 15 May 2014 22:30, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote

Re: using AVX

2014-05-15 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 16 May 2014 06:01, flamencofantasy via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Here is my test program; import core.simd; void main() { byte32 b32; } Compiling using DMD on x64 windows 7 (Xeon E5-2630) prints the error message; -- Build started: Project: dtest,

Re: Things to Discuss at DConf 2014

2014-05-20 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 21 May 2014 04:01, w0rp via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: I'm not going to DConf myself, but I'll make this thread so people can list out a few things worth discussing while various important D contributors are all gathered together at DConf 2014. During the last

Re: 64-bit DMD for windows?

2014-05-20 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 21 May 2014 05:15, Temtaime via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Sorry i misunderstood you. Yes dmd supports x64 on windows but it doesn't work without external tools. It's a main trouble i think. MSVC is the de facto standard toolset for Windows. How do you interoperate

Re: 64-bit DMD for windows?

2014-05-20 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 21 May 2014 13:45, Temtaime via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Yes, DMD uses ld on linux. It's OK because there is no other linker. And it's system's default. Everybody(almost) have GCC. But on windows.. MSVS is external IDE and toolset. Some people yes they uses MinGW.

Re: 64-bit DMD for windows?

2014-05-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 22 May 2014 16:28, Joakim via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thursday, 22 May 2014 at 06:16:54 UTC, Rainer Schuetze wrote: I recently considered making a pull request, but noticed an include dependency that failed to work for another PR, and got distracted. The updated

UDA from template args

2014-05-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
This issue has been there for a long time, and std.simd has been blocked on this for a year. https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10193 Can anyone chime in and suggest options, or perhaps how to fix? Also, to the LDC guys: GDC supports a UDA, eg. @attribute(target, sse2), which will resolve

Re: 64-bit DMD for windows?

2014-05-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 22 May 2014 20:37, Kagamin via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Ah, ok, but druntime and phobos are compiled to link with snn, which has functions absent in msvcrt like snvprintf and long double math functions. That doesn't seem to bother Win64...

Re: UDA from template args

2014-05-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 22 May 2014 23:53, Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 05/22/14 12:54, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: This issue has been there for a long time, and std.simd has been blocked on this for a year. https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10193 Can anyone

Re: 64-bit DMD for windows?

2014-05-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 23 May 2014 01:45, Anonymous via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: With VS2013 installed, I had an issue with the DMD installer's config. mspdb*.dll are located in VC/bin, not VC/bin/x86_amd64, and using -m64 caused a linker error. Adding %VCINSTALLDIR%\bin to sc.ini's PATH

Re: UDA from template args

2014-05-22 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 23 May 2014 04:44, Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 05/22/14 17:51, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: On 22 May 2014 23:53, Artur Skawina via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 05/22/14 12:54, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: To address

Re: New pointer type for GC

2014-05-31 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 29 May 2014 03:35, via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Wednesday, 28 May 2014 at 17:27:20 UTC, Dicebot wrote: Adding GC pointer type does not enable anything that you can't do write now for high-level applications and does not help at all low-level applications. It is

foreach

2014-06-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
I often find myself wanting to write this: foreach(; 0..n) {} In the case that I just want to do something n times and I don't actually care about the loop counter, but this doesn't compile. You can do this: for(;;) {} If 'for' lets you omit any of the loop terms, surely it makes sense that

Re: foreach

2014-06-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 June 2014 04:04, Nick Sabalausky via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 6/12/2014 11:00 AM, Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote: I often find myself wanting to write this: foreach(; 0..n) {} In the case that I just want to do something n times and I don't actually care

Re: foreach

2014-06-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 June 2014 13:04, Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote in message news:mailman.2111.1402626404.2907.digitalmar...@puremagic.com... It gets awkward when you nest, using '_' leads to '__', i,j,k,etc work just fine. Are you

Re: foreach

2014-06-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 June 2014 13:29, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:04:08 -0400, Daniel Murphy yebbliesnos...@gmail.com wrote: Manu via Digitalmars-d wrote in message and personally, I would expect an 'unreferenced variable' warning

Re: foreach

2014-06-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 June 2014 13:42, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On Thu, 12 Jun 2014 23:34:27 -0400, Manu via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: On 13 June 2014 13:04, Daniel Murphy via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: i,j,k,etc

Re: foreach

2014-06-12 Thread Manu via Digitalmars-d
On 13 June 2014 14:14, Steven Schveighoffer via Digitalmars-d digitalmars-d@puremagic.com wrote: Some forward ranges don't have a known length, and can only be summed by an iteration sweep. http://dlang.org/phobos/std_range.html#.walkLength That's inefficient, I might as well perform the

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