Re: dlang.org Getting Started page
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 at 21:05:27 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: Personally, when I get started with a new language the first things I want are: 1. Examples (Hello World, File IO, some examples that demonstrate what makes the language unique). Currently on the front page, dlang.org. 2. I want to see an introduction to the language, what makes the language unique, what are the goals of the language, things like that. Ditto. 3. I want to see language references, where can I go to reference how to do something in the language. The buttons for the language and library references are right below Getting Started. They can't be easier to locate than they currently are. Other articles of this sort are scattered everywhere, both on and off the official websites. 4. I want to see build/install/small program tutorials. I think these 4 things should require 1 click to get to. The user should be able to click on one link (Getting Started) is a good name, and then be able to see direct links to all these topics. Redirecting to a wiki is not horrible but I think the optimal design is to have one landing page that a user can go back to in order to get started and find everything they need. In our case, I think links to the wiki and forums would be good as well, but the most important things should be obvious and easy to get to. Splitting these topics up among the wiki and the dlang website makes it harder to get around, not horrible, but not optimal. IMO, the most important thing *is* the Wiki, but a newcomer might not know that, so they must be told. If I try to decide the best link for them I'll just be duplicating the effort done on the Wiki page. Just send people to the Wiki. It has the best current information about what to do and where to go. I think the Wiki should be the official place to go to get information on D. Dlang.org should be concise and formal, containing only the most permanent information. D doesn't have a wealthy funder to pay for building a single unified website experience. It needs to leverage the community instead. The proof is already there - The Wiki is currently the best place to go for information about D. In fact, I didn't even know that it was the best place until I was trying to figure out how to improve dlang.org, and realized I would just be duplicating the effort done on the Wiki. Yes, the Wiki could be made better, and it will, because editing is easy and unburdened by the review process. I just made a few edits myself. I'm follow the evidence. Dlang.org should say, regarding the Wiki, If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. And by referring people there to begin with, more effort will be put into it. And yes, I am advocating continuing the weird competition between Ddoc and other markup languages. Would it be great if Wiki markup and Ddoc were completely compatible? Yes, so people could learn Ddoc at the same time as editing the Wiki. But as I said, the evidence is in the outcome. Please compare the Wiki to dlang.org. I don't think dlang.org can keep up. That said... we should copy look-and-feel from dlang to the Wiki, so it won't feel like so much of a defeat!
Re: dlang.org Getting Started page
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 at 19:03:55 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: I'm looking for feedback for: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/878 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14088 Investigation shows that the D Wiki is the best landing place for newcomers, so they are directed there first. I think the current page leaves newcomers a little bit stranded. Seems like a good idea to me. One thought, when I'm looking at a new language and I see a Getting Started, I would expect to see links for tutorials such as how to install and tutorials on writing Hello World... I would put those links first.
Re: dlang.org Getting Started page
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 at 19:35:45 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Saturday, 31 January 2015 at 19:22:06 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: Seems like a good idea to me. One thought, when I'm looking at a new language and I see a Getting Started, I would expect to see links for tutorials such as how to install and tutorials on writing Hello World... I would put those links first. In principle, I agree, but the front page of the Wiki has such links already, plus a whole lot more. It won't take the new user long to find what they're looking for there. I thought Getting Started was a good title, but maybe I should change it to Introduction. Introduction would conflict with: http://dlang.org/intro.html I think that's why I avoided it. If you've got something better, please suggest.
Re: dlang.org Getting Started page
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 at 19:22:06 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: On Saturday, 31 January 2015 at 19:03:55 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: I'm looking for feedback for: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/878 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14088 Investigation shows that the D Wiki is the best landing place for newcomers, so they are directed there first. I think the current page leaves newcomers a little bit stranded. Seems like a good idea to me. One thought, when I'm looking at a new language and I see a Getting Started, I would expect to see links for tutorials such as how to install and tutorials on writing Hello World... I would put those links first. In principle, I agree, but the front page of the Wiki has such links already, plus a whole lot more. It won't take the new user long to find what they're looking for there. I thought Getting Started was a good title, but maybe I should change it to Introduction.
Re: dlang.org Getting Started page
On Saturday, 31 January 2015 at 19:35:45 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: On Saturday, 31 January 2015 at 19:22:06 UTC, Jonathan Marler wrote: On Saturday, 31 January 2015 at 19:03:55 UTC, Zach the Mystic wrote: I'm looking for feedback for: https://github.com/D-Programming-Language/dlang.org/pull/878 https://issues.dlang.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14088 Investigation shows that the D Wiki is the best landing place for newcomers, so they are directed there first. I think the current page leaves newcomers a little bit stranded. Seems like a good idea to me. One thought, when I'm looking at a new language and I see a Getting Started, I would expect to see links for tutorials such as how to install and tutorials on writing Hello World... I would put those links first. In principle, I agree, but the front page of the Wiki has such links already, plus a whole lot more. It won't take the new user long to find what they're looking for there. I thought Getting Started was a good title, but maybe I should change it to Introduction. Personally, when I get started with a new language the first things I want are: 1. Examples (Hello World, File IO, some examples that demonstrate what makes the language unique). 2. I want to see an introduction to the language, what makes the language unique, what are the goals of the language, things like that. 3. I want to see language references, where can I go to reference how to do something in the language. 4. I want to see build/install/small program tutorials. I think these 4 things should require 1 click to get to. The user should be able to click on one link (Getting Started) is a good name, and then be able to see direct links to all these topics. Redirecting to a wiki is not horrible but I think the optimal design is to have one landing page that a user can go back to in order to get started and find everything they need. In our case, I think links to the wiki and forums would be good as well, but the most important things should be obvious and easy to get to. Splitting these topics up among the wiki and the dlang website makes it harder to get around, not horrible, but not optimal.
