Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
Hi, I have three of the primary cameras andmy network gear on battery backup. The cameras are also are IR capable. I don't track the FTP traffic But the emailed photos are about 40K each and are on movement only. I use Foscam FI8918W and Foscam FI8905W cameras. Outside [image: Displaying 00626E441697(Truck)_m20140924144203.jpg] With IR using IR [image: Displaying 00E04C8E5372(Front)_m20140925182708.jpg] They are wireless IP cameras the can stream to a server, also FTP and email photos. I also use a free android app to view six cameras. I my place is robbed I would much rather say to the cops The person(s) that took my stuff look like this. than yes my place was robbed at 4:24PM, that's when the alarm went off. (I have one camera at each door to my house A decentralized plan like this might work best. What about power and lighting? Deidcated or shared network? What has been your experience with camera brands, models, recommended features? If you have ftp set up how much data transfer does this use per month? Thanks, John - Thank you, *Bob Dunphy* - *Sr. Systems Engineer * http://www.REDSystems.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On Wed, Sep 24, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Bob Dunphy b...@redsystems.com wrote: They are wireless IP cameras the can stream to a server, also FTP and email photos. I also use a free android app to view six cameras. I my place is robbed I would much rather say to the cops The person(s) that took my stuff look like this. than yes my place was robbed at 4:24PM, that's when the alarm went off. (I have one camera at each door to my house A decentralized plan like this might work best. What about power and lighting? Deidcated or shared network? What has been your experience with camera brands, models, recommended features? If you have ftp set up how much data transfer does this use per month? Thanks, John ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
Alarm systems can be good. But if the thief is gone before the cops get there and they don't have a good idea of who they are looking for. I use several cameras (some in plain sight as a deterrent) and some less viable. They are wireless IP cameras the can stream to a server, also FTP and email photos. I also use a free android app to view six cameras. I my place is robbed I would much rather say to the cops The person(s) that took my stuff look like this. than yes my place was robbed at 4:24PM, that's when the alarm went off. (I have one camera at each door to my house, because it is likely the bad guys will check the doors before coming in and I will have a great shot of them.) Because the FTP and emails are sent off site, they are not accessible to the bad guys. http://foscam.us/products.html - Thank you, *Bob Dunphy* - *Sr. Systems Engineer* *RED Systems, Inc*. - (508) 279-3000 Please visit us at http://www.REDSystems.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:26:44AM -0400, Bill Horne wrote: Sorry, that's not a secure practice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_jammer Maybe not, but at least it's a pretty reasonable assumption that if both the cellular and land line communications are severed, something funny is going on. Whoever is monitoring the home can be fairly sure that a call to the police is warranted. If the system relies on just one of those, it's much more likely (than if two went down) that it's just a random failure. -- Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail due to spam prevention. Sorry for the inconvenience. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On 9/23/2014 3:36 PM, Derek Martin wrote: Whoever is monitoring the home can be fairly sure that a call to the police is warranted. Not until after an intruder has left the premises. Read the very first item from ADT's FAQ: http://www.adt.com/customer-service/home-security-faqs -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
Richard Pieri wrote: Derek Martin wrote: Whoever is monitoring the home can be fairly sure that a call to the police is warranted. Not until after an intruder has left the premises. Read the very first item from ADT's FAQ: http://www.adt.com/customer-service/home-security-faqs You mean How does my ADT alarm system work? where it says, Once a zone has been violated, the alarm system then dials ADT and transmits the message through a telephone line. Once the signal is received, the alarm system will wait to send another message if another zone is tripped. So you're thinking that if the ADT setup requires the intruder to trip multiple zones before ADT dispatches the authorities, then it's a pointless setup? It's rather vague the way they describe it. They don't specify when they actually call the authorities. Don't they usually have a process of calling the home owner first? I'm not sure what panel ADT currently used, but they used to show the same GE panel I'm familiar with in their ads. That panel doesn't do this multiple zone alerting thing they describe. (A zone, by the way, is simply a single wireless sensor, like a door switch or motion detector.) You trip a zone, alarm goes off after a programmable delay, and then after another programmable delay, it dials out to the specified numbers. Subsequently tripped zones are irrelevant. Derek Martin wrote: ...if both the cellular and land line communications are severed, something funny is going on. Whoever is monitoring the home can be fairly sure that a call to the police is warranted. Once upon a time alarm monitoring companies used leased lines to the customer so they could immediately detect when the loop was cut. I think there might have been a period of time in which the telcos offered that service on a regular local loop, avoiding the need for a leased line. (The telco would detect the cut, and notify the alarm monitoring service.) As far as I know, all modern alarm monitoring services (except perhaps for some high-end commercial property monitoring services) simply use regular phone lines. They depend on the alarm panel calling them periodically to report its status. The timeout for not hearing from the alarm panel might be days. Not minutes, or even hours. Thus by the time you get alerted of a line cut its way too late. The timeout period for not getting supervisory GPRS packets may be smaller. I'm not sure. But the monitoring company is paying for the cell data, so they have incentive to have the messages happen as infrequently as they can get away with. The only practical way to keep a close eye on a remote alarm system in a fail-safe way is to use the Internet, where it is practical to have the monitoring service drive the process and ping the panel on the order of minutes. But because the Internet link is unreliable, you need some automated escalation procedure (like calling the alarm panel's modem) before you bother involving people. -Tom -- Tom Metro The Perl Shop, Newton, MA, USA Predictable On-demand Perl Consulting. http://www.theperlshop.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On 9/23/2014 5:39 PM, Tom Metro wrote: So you're thinking that if the ADT setup requires the intruder to trip multiple zones before ADT dispatches the authorities, then it's a pointless setup? No, I'm thinking that if an intruder jams the GSM device and cuts the hardline then no alarm signal is going to reach ADT until after the jammer is turned off or moved out of range. An intruder with a jammer will be long gone before the monitoring agency receives its first alarm signal. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
Matt Shields wrote: This started with me waiting for FedEx to show up with my delivery of the iPhone 6. The problem is if I'm working with headphones on in my office I can't hear the doorbell or a knock on the door... Try one of these: http://www.harborfreight.com/wireless-driveway-alert-system-93068.html It's a $15 wireless motion detector with a companion receiver that sounds a chime when triggered. (They used to promote it as a driveway alert system, but the motion detector doesn't handle the normal thermal variations that occur outside and triggers a lot of false alarms. Works reliably indoors. Probably OK on a covered porch.) The receiver has a light on it, so you'll notice it even if you have headphones on. ...I can buy a multi-camera and dvr setup from BJ's for a few hundred bucks. The multi-camera DVR setups seem appealing: -They're integrated, turn-key. -You usually get a bunch of cameras, and thus good coverage, for fairly cheap. However: -They use analog cameras. That means you have to run coax, which is thicker and more expensive than CAT5, to each camera. Sometimes separate power wiring. And you're limited to NTSC resolution. -You may be locked-in to one vendor's camera product line. -Expansion will be limited. DVRs usually handle 4 or 8 cameras. -The DVR boxes are just appliances running Linux, but the vendors have been notorious for violating GPL and not supplying source. They've also traditionally done stupid things like making the UI only work on IE because they depend on a proprietary ActiveX control. (Hopefully they aren't still doing that on current system.) If you put together your own setup using IP cameras, you can start with one camera and add as needed. Use higher resolution cameras. Use PoE to send power and networking over the same wire. Select cameras that are optimal for the location. And customize the server used to monitor the cameras. A big downside is that many low-cost IP cameras have poor reliability. Again they often run Linux, but they're loaded up with buggy features, on the assumption that home owners will be using them as stand-alone devices that need to be able to handle pushing to FTP servers, sending email, dynamic DNS, etc. They also try and include software motion detection in them, but they do a lousy job of it. You're better off either doing that on your server, or pairing the camera with a hardware IR motion detector. (Some cameras integrate PIR sensors, and some have screw terminals to attach an external sensor.) (To me, the holey grail in IP cameras would be a low cost camera running a simple real-time embedded operating system that only has enough functionality to digitize, compress, and stream the video. Plus, a hardware watchdog that automatically resets the camera if its software crashes.) -Tom -- Tom Metro The Perl Shop, Newton, MA, USA Predictable On-demand Perl Consulting. http://www.theperlshop.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
For a namebrand, Ubiquiti, ubnt.com has what seems to be good equipment. They focus on wireless networking but have security equipment and appliance interfaces as well. I have only used their wireless networking equipment but it seems to be less expensive than most comparable competition of commercial quality. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On September 22, 2014, Bill Horne wrote: 2. Every home monitoring system that's sold to civilians can be disabled in seconds with a pair of wire cutters. Anyone who has spent time in prison knows this trick: even amateurs will take the phone off the hook and dial a nonsensical number, to disable old-school burglar alarms which are tied to the phone line. These days, home monitoring companies offer cellular-based backup systems that kick in if the phone line is busy or disabled. As long as the thief doesn't wrap your house in aluminium foil -- Dan Barrett dbarr...@blazemonger.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Daniel Barrett dbarr...@blazemonger.com wrote: These days, home monitoring companies offer cellular-based backup systems that kick in if the phone line is busy or disabled. As long as the thief doesn't wrap your house in aluminium foil Shit, some of the messages on this thread make me think that some folks already have their house pre-wrapped. The thief wouldn't need to do anything. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On Monday, September 22, 2014 10:07:51 AM you wrote: On September 22, 2014, Bill Horne wrote: 2. Every home monitoring system that's sold to civilians can be disabled in seconds with a pair of wire cutters. Anyone who has spent time in prison knows this trick: even amateurs will take the phone off the hook and dial a nonsensical number, to disable old-school burglar alarms which are tied to the phone line. These days, home monitoring companies offer cellular-based backup systems that kick in if the phone line is busy or disabled. As long as the thief doesn't wrap your house in aluminum foil -- Dan Barrett dbarr...@blazemonger.com Sorry, that's not a secure practice: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_jammer ... and I mentioned WiMax and Satellite Internet only because it's a lot harder to interfere with them than to jam a cellphone. Bill -- Bill Horne William Warren Consulting 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On September 22, 2014, Gordon Marx wrote: Shit, some of the messages on this thread make me think that some folks already have their house pre-wrapped [in foil]. The thief wouldn't need to do anything. One can only hope that the thief is thoughtless and steals the foil first. -- Dan Barrett dbarr...@blazemonger.com ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
My wifes employer built a building and had to install two hard lines even though there were none in the area, just for the alarm system. (This is in a rural area. Most folks do not have hard lines here, can't get dsl or cable either.) The lines get called daily by the alarm company to ensure they work, but are used (infrequently) in the building office during the days. Still works better than the VOIP the company installed (that comes in via a wifi lan from another building. The other building has a T1 going to it for voice and data use). ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On Monday, September 22, 2014 10:41:57 AM you wrote: On September 22, 2014, Gordon Marx wrote: Shit, some of the messages on this thread make me think that some folks already have their house pre-wrapped [in foil]. The thief wouldn't need to do anything. One can only hope that the thief is thoughtless and steals the foil first. -- Dan Barrett dbarr...@blazemonger.com Dan, Have you checked the price of tin foil lately? I'm wearing last week's hat! Bill -- Bill Horne William Warren Consulting 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
Part of wanting to do it myself is because I would learn about all the different components and be able to troubleshoot and fix them if necessary. Matt On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Richard Pieri richard.pi...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/19/2014 4:37 PM, Matt Shields wrote: I'd rather not go with a provider based system (like Comcast, ADT, Vivint, etc) since I want to control everything and not have to rely on a company for service or pay a monthly fee. [...] Any suggestions? Pay a professional to help you plan the system, install and configure it correctly. It'll be worth it in the long run. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On 9/21/2014 5:31 PM, Matt Shields wrote: Part of wanting to do it myself is because I would learn about all the different components and be able to troubleshoot and fix them if necessary. Yeah... see, security systems are very much a you get what you pay for kind of thing. To paraphrase Mr. Schneier, if you rely on amateurs for security then you get amateur security. You'll be better off bringing in a residential security consultant to audit the premises than doing it all yourself. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
Matt Shields wrote: I'm considering setting up my own home security system, video surveillance and home automation. We talk about these topics on the BLU Hardware Hacking list: http://blu.wikispaces.com/Hardware+Hacking Some recent threads: Z-Wave door locks vulnerable to replay attack http://www.mail-archive.com/hardwarehacking@blu.org/msg01276.html Home Automation Startups in Boston http://www.mail-archive.com/hardwarehacking@blu.org/msg01278.html z-wave products at Monoprice http://www.mail-archive.com/hardwarehacking@blu.org/msg01300.html Buying a good outdoor security camera http://www.mail-archive.com/hardwarehacking@blu.org/msg01301.html I'd rather not go with a provider based system (like Comcast, ADT, Vivint, etc) since I want to control everything and not have to rely on a company for service or pay a monthly fee. On the security side of things, you'll want to consider whether using a home-brew or self-monitored solution will meet the requirements of your home insurance provider, many of which will offer discounts to systems that meet their criteria. If that isn't a concern, or the provider has flexible rules (for example, not requiring commercial monitoring, but requiring a UL-listed alarm panel), then you have some choices. If you care a lot about the reliability, particularly if you are monitoring the system remotely, you probably want to go with a purpose built alarm panel, rather than adding on security sensors to a home automation platform. I haven't surveyed the market lately, but several years back when I was in the market for an alarm panel, I was rather disappointed with the proprietary offerings. They're generally designed to only allow dealer/installers to access programming features remotely (which you may not care about) and they require you pay a monthly fee to the vendor's authorized partner (usually alarm.com) if you want to monitor the system over the Internet. (I'm hoping this isn't still the case with at least some current panels.) There is a similar limitation on the cellular backup systems used by the panels. The GE panels use a cell service that's again tied to alarm.com. So in addition to buying the cell module for several hundred, you have to pay a monthly fee. No option to drop in your own SIM. (It actually uses GPRS data transmission, I believe, and is hard wired to talk to alarm.com servers.) At least the GE panels and some of the others can be configured to dial out to phone numbers of your choosing, so it is possible to use them in a self-monitoring configuration. (Up to you to figure out a backup channel in the event your phone line is cut.) Several alarm panel vendors have tried getting into the home automation space as an add-on to their panels. Some GE panels and 2GIG, for example, will work with Z-Wave devices to control lights, electronic locks, and whatnot. These capabilities generally are only usable if you again have a monthly subscription to alarm.com. (That's true for the GE panels. Not sure about the 2GIG.) Do you spot the pattern? Basically anything that requires connectivity outside the home they either assume no home owner would be sophisticated enough to handle setting that up on their own, or they simply want to lock you into using a service where they get a cut of the monthly revenue. If you're really more interested in home automation, and security is just a nice-to-have add-on, then you could instead build the system around a home automation controller and get security sensors that talk home automation protocols. The controller could be something from a turn-key solution like Vera (http://getvera.com/) or SmartThings (http://www.smartthings.com/) hub (which offer some limited form of openness) to a fully D-I-Y solution running on a Raspberry Pi or the like. Often times the wireless sensors available for the commercial alarm panels will be cheaper and offer better choices (smaller door sensors, smoke alarms, etc.) than what you can get for home automation sensors. An ideal solution might blend the two. Use a D-I-Y hub with a software defined radio to talk to alarm panel sensors. See: the insecurity of wireless alarm systems http://www.mail-archive.com/hardwarehacking@blu.org/msg01263.html Ideally I would like it to have all three things (security, video automation) all work together in the same system and I'd like to have it network based and even have a mobile app. If you don't want to do much integration work, one of the turn key offerings are going to be your best bet. -Tom -- Tom Metro The Perl Shop, Newton, MA, USA Predictable On-demand Perl Consulting. http://www.theperlshop.com/ ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On 9/21/2014 5:31 PM, Matt Shields wrote: On Sat, Sep 20, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Richard Pieri richard.pi...@gmail.com wrote: On 9/19/2014 4:37 PM, Matt Shields wrote: I'd rather not go with a provider based system (like Comcast, ADT, Vivint, etc) since I want to control everything and not have to rely on a company for service or pay a monthly fee. [...] Any suggestions? Pay a professional to help you plan the system, install and configure it correctly. It'll be worth it in the long run. Part of wanting to do it myself is because I would learn about all the different components and be able to troubleshoot and fix them if necessary. I think what Rich recommends is good advice: a professional will be able to tell you, gently, that most thefts are done by people you know, and that most of your planning will be concerned with ways to prevent that. Here are a few items to consider: */Theft prevention:/* 1. It's important to understand that most snatch and grab thefts can't be prevented. Police response times allow junkies to force entry, heist your TV and iPad and iPhone, and get out of reach before the police arrive. That's what insurance is for. 2. Every home monitoring system that's sold to civilians can be disabled in seconds with a pair of wire cutters. Anyone who has spent time in prison knows this trick: even amateurs will take the phone off the hook and dial a nonsensical number, to disable old-school burglar alarms which are tied to the phone line. Banks, gun shops, and other target risks all have radio backup systems which are secured behind effective barriers. So, if you are trying to protect high-value items, think of WiMax or Satellite Internet service as a minimum first step. 3. If you have jewelry, antiques, firearms, or other high-value items, you'll probably need a safe, depending on the value of the item(s) you're protecting, and applicable laws. Your insurance carrier will insist on it if you ask them to cover high-value items, and on having a notification procedure when the jewels (or whatever) are being taken off-premise. The safe will have to be appropriately rated (that's why the testing company is called the _/Underwriters/_/' //Laboratory/) and professionally installed so that it can't be dragged away and cut open later. 4. You will need to set up security zones. You can't put a Maginot line around your home, because experienced thieves will be gaining entry when they visit family members, or come to a Tupperware party, etc. You're going to need Private areas where casual visitors are never allowed, and (more importantly) the willingness to erect barriers to exclude them. 5. Alarms and safes and security zones are all about buying time. Safes, for example, are rated by how long they can withstand various kinds of attacks, and a properly designed and installed system will delay attackers until help can get there. 6. You and your family members might be asked to attend security-awareness and self-defense training. Safes are only as good as your willingness to resist when a street stomper points a gun at you, and God knows that there's no shortage of guns or street stompers to hold them. */Remote Management: /* 1. /99% /of environmental control can be done with programmable thermostats. 2. The other 1% is handled by giving your neighbor a house key and your cell number. Bill -- E. William Horne William Warren Consulting 339-364-8487 ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
Re: [Discuss] Home security automation
On 9/19/2014 4:37 PM, Matt Shields wrote: I'd rather not go with a provider based system (like Comcast, ADT, Vivint, etc) since I want to control everything and not have to rely on a company for service or pay a monthly fee. [...] Any suggestions? Pay a professional to help you plan the system, install and configure it correctly. It'll be worth it in the long run. -- Rich P. ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
[Discuss] Home security automation
I'm considering setting up my own home security system, video surveillance and home automation. I'd rather not go with a provider based system (like Comcast, ADT, Vivint, etc) since I want to control everything and not have to rely on a company for service or pay a monthly fee. Ideally I would like it to have all three things (security, video automation) all work together in the same system and I'd like to have it network based and even have a mobile app. Any suggestions? Matt ___ Discuss mailing list Discuss@blu.org http://lists.blu.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
